Hey Chaos, thanks for the message. I always dig a Prince Naseem clip, lol. I remember him saying he could've beat Floyd...I'm not so sure about that, haha!
I know you don't like people that don't openly accept things without proof, regardless of how fantastical they come across as to them. I don't think of it as close minded, more of wanting proof of performance when claims are made. It's probably my past trauma with girls making it seem impossible, mixed with all the scam bullshit over the years ripping me off with "attraction" stuff, you know? So no BS certainty is a big deal now I guess. Fair enough, I'm not as willing to take anything with no proof to me as the gospel anymore after all that. Besides, I spoke earlier of the "anti-sniper" in that post, not the aura/manifestation stuff I've asked for clarification about before which I assume you referred to. This is something I don't remember ever asking Shannon about. And no, he hasn't explained it fully. They've been vague concepts and trade secrets, and none of that is relevant anyway. I'm not interested in another aura/manifestation debate as it's a waste of time. As all the guys that are lucky enough to execute with the program will say it's real as they can get results. And the ones that aren't able to execute and get results will call BS, it's a big fight about nothing. Maybe someday the program can be made to be powerful enough to work for all of us, I'm not sure. I only brought it up because if it DID anti-sniper her, that would tell Shannon that is executing, even though I didn't see how that works in reality, not for an argument on auras and what not. If it all works, that's great, I welcome the proof it works for me someday. He said we don't need to believe for it to work anyway, bending my reality of no women, to lots of them IS fantastical and would naturally make me skeptical it is legit. I've listened faithfully for a year, giving it a chance to do so. I'm not one of the sideline detractors, not even running it, while running it down, you know? I'm at least giving it a chance to show me it can do for me what people claim it does for them.
Now on the other stuff, I hear what you're saying, but you're forgetting a few key issues.
As I've said before, if she does that and never communicates with me enough so that I can ask her out or she can do something in line with the program...I tend to question how blatant the "IOI" is or if it really is such in this case.
It's great women respond to you with IOIs and you get traction, I'm happy for you. Obviously, we aren't the same person so I haven't had nearly the traction you have. With this girl, I'm still unsure she's actually interested, especially since like a year or two ago she rejected me, never mind her barely talking to me for awhile now when out, making getting something going very difficult. It's tough for me to believe it's an IOI with those other factors there. I don't know what I was supposed to do, smack or squeeze her ass despite her barely talking with me? Risking some "sexual harassment" bullshit for the second time in my life? No thanks, last time I got caught up in a mess like that I got a badly broken arm with permanent damage and it took 6 years to shake the "rapist" allegation. It's easy to wax theory about would've could've should've, but honestly man, I tried talking to her after and it was pulling teeth like usual so I left it and didn't chase. If she talked to me normal like she used to before DMSI, AND did the ass displays, this would be a different conversation. Weirdly, DMSI has over time, hugely derailed things with her, she was the #1 girl I figured DMSI would work on for me, I've been shocked by what's happened. She's the second hot/normally outspoken girl around me to act this way since starting DMSI, it's very strange. The second one, which chronologically was the first and it was SO strange how she almost started hating me it seemed. Finally, I stopped trying to engage that girl after she was so ignorant at my birthday party, I figured she just became an ignorant bitch and cut her off. Similar to her, with T, awkward demeanor when she's normally very outspoken, the pulling teeth to talk to her, not hugging me anymore even, then weird random things like this, muddy it up for me. I can't help but look at it all and say "okay, given everything, the ass display means nothing, the jealousy with me talking to other girls is just her feeling she's losing attention or validation from someone she wants as an orbiter, her barely talking to me and the rejection way back are more clear cut.".
If she starts engaging like before, I may ask her again, it's been long enough. Maybe Version B will do something different, we'll see. I know I'm nowhere near invested in any of this as much as I was when starting, or even months ago. But again, like I've said before, I can't tell if that's the sub, or if it's just that sense of futility. Weirdly, I don't know what drives me more with this program anymore, getting a girl (which still seems not quite possible), or seeing the program work in reality.
I don't think I don't have lots to learn about women. But some of this is confusing, and given the last time I got into hot water and saw just how fast the world can turn upside down on me...I seem to really err on the side of caution now. So like earlier, certainty seems to be really important to me. I need no-brainer IOIs to take real action now.
The thing is, what you're saying about her just wanting validation is indeed a possibility. Doesn't mean the aura isn't working on her, just means she's not the best target. Now, granted, in the situation you just outlined, it does sound like she's just acting goofy and not worth the trouble. I'm "waxing theory," as you put it.
The overall point I'm trying to make is -- when you see an IOI, you don't have to go all in and slap her ass or grope her. Instead, you throw the equivalent of the jab in boxing. An ambiguous, slightly sexually charged comment to feel out her mood.
For example, in this situation, I would've said something along the lines of: "Now this is the best sight I've seen all night."
If she turns around, enraged and goes, "WHAT?!!!" acting like she's so offended, I'd point to something else -- the television, crowds of laughing people. "The energy in this room, everyone happy. Best sight I've seen all night."
If she turns around, smirk on her face, all giggly and goes, "what?" I'd shrug and say, "I call it as I see it."
Verbal jab. Then, as she gives you more and more signs, you escalate. That's why learning body language is good. If she starts staring at your lips, or putting gloss on her lips when it's unnecessary, you know that some part of her wants to be kissed. Doesn't necessarily mean you just grab her and kiss her. But, you can maybe start touching her arm while talking.
On v2.something, I bagged the hottest chick I've ever had in my life. The signal? We were by the pool talking and she kept licking her lips at me. Strong sexual signal and I went for it. That could've ended badly. She was married with children. Just because she was thinking about banging me (and really wanted to do it) doesn't necessarily mean she WOULD do it. If I were playing smart, I would've started throwing those verbal jabs.
So yes, there's a risk of rejection and failure, but that's the risk we must endure to play the game. Hence, why some people are going MGTOW and saying screwing it.
Oh for sure more information, both about her intentions in time, and about myself/developing independent of her is needed. I knew it would be a long road to get to where I've wanted to be with women. I'm doing my best to keep going down it, as long as it drives me!
Funny enough, she's done the staring at my lips thing, and putting on lip gloss etc. in front of me, lol. Others have as well. And all of the other stuff she's done along side the lip stuff, haha, so funny and contradictory. Maybe she's conflicted, like before DMSI, she had this view of me as harmless "beta" or whatever and now this is changing over time so she's not understanding how or why and it's causing a pull back instead of just responding to it "properly". I don't know. I mean at times she stares at me or walks by for no reason when it'd be easier to go another way to where she was going. At times putting on a perfume she knows I like when I show up as it wasn't on her beforehand when she first greets me, then conveniently walking by me after it's on to get me to smell it, lmao. Or seemingly talking to girls I know about me. Sometimes when I talk to girls, she would interrupt and physically get between lmao, or send them away, or keep walking back and forth in between us pretending to be doing something legit when it's clear she's trying to ruin the interaction, lol. All of that sounds great! But then, I get the nonsense stuff to derail it all, lol. If I see more behaviour that's encouraging over time, I'll just try to do something to go forward and ignore all the contrary "plausible deniability" stuff, so to speak. She's VERY insecure, I guess most extremely hot girls are as they're viewed with such scrutiny by others and especially themselves. So, a lot of that behaviour could've been creating plausible deniability to save her ego in front of people.
I will say that regardless, girls are FAR less of a big deal to me anymore. Like I said, I don't know anymore if it's girls themselves I'm more onto, or if it's just seeing the program work on me, like for the sport or the science of it. It's weird, but I certainly don't get nearly as wrapped up about them anymore. Whether that's the sub creating that or just a feeling of futility, I'm happy about that, as it was clear for a long time I was way too over interested and worried about girls and I'm sure that came across to them.
Thanks man.
An hour or so before bed, I've developed a pretty powerful headache.
I took two extra strength Advils awhile ago, that usually removes it, but it's still there. I think it's slightly reduced though, surprised it's potent enough to stick around after them, and at this strength. It's rare for me to get one so strong. So are head aches in general, in fact.
Day 2 of B, finished my loops about 14-15 hours ago, so I'm surprised to see the headache start NOW. I never got a headache during my A run, closest thing were bouts of sudden strong exhaustion temporarily for an hour or so and then go away which is reasonable. In fact, I've never fully equated them to the sub, as many times I eat a large meal right beforehand, and I tend to get sleepy after that for awhile, so many instances could've simply been that, so it hasn't been a concern anymore on V3.1 thankfully! Especially compared to the GODLIKE constant exhaustion V3.0.1 did to me, derailing my life badly. And at times, on A I've had the feeling of extreme weight in my head at times. No headaches until just now, day 2 of B.
Thinking about if this Version B run is pointless and that I'm just chasing results, and that a week isn't enough to see something markedly different given my situation anyway. And that a longer term approach to just using A like I was is better for me. I've already accepted I will be the last to second last to see design goal performance from this sub, so chasing results like this seems to be a waste of possible clearing and healing time.
We'll see, something to think about before EST afternoon time when I have the time to listen to my loops as I always do.
(04-19-2017, 08:28 PM)CatMan Wrote: [ -> ]Oh for sure more information, both about her intentions in time, and about myself/developing independent of her is needed. I knew it would be a long road to get to where I've wanted to be with women. I'm doing my best to keep going down it, as long as it drives me!
Funny enough, she's done the staring at my lips thing, and putting on lip gloss etc. in front of me, lol. Others have as well. And all of the other stuff she's done along side the lip stuff, haha, so funny and contradictory. Maybe she's conflicted, like before DMSI, she had this view of me as harmless "beta" or whatever and now this is changing over time so she's not understanding how or why and it's causing a pull back instead of just responding to it "properly". I don't know. I mean at times she stares at me or walks by for no reason when it'd be easier to go another way to where she was going. At times putting on a perfume she knows I like when I show up as it wasn't on her beforehand when she first greets me, then conveniently walking by me after it's on to get me to smell it, lmao. Or seemingly talking to girls I know about me. Sometimes when I talk to girls, she would interrupt and physically get between lmao, or send them away, or keep walking back and forth in between us pretending to be doing something legit when it's clear she's trying to ruin the interaction, lol. All of that sounds great! But then, I get the nonsense stuff to derail it all, lol. If I see more behaviour that's encouraging over time, I'll just try to do something to go forward and ignore all the contrary "plausible deniability" stuff, so to speak. She's VERY insecure, I guess most extremely hot girls are as they're viewed with such scrutiny by others and especially themselves. So, a lot of that behaviour could've been creating plausible deniability to save her ego in front of people.
I will say that regardless, girls are FAR less of a big deal to me anymore. Like I said, I don't know anymore if it's girls themselves I'm more onto, or if it's just seeing the program work on me, like for the sport or the science of it. It's weird, but I certainly don't get nearly as wrapped up about them anymore. Whether that's the sub creating that or just a feeling of futility, I'm happy about that, as it was clear for a long time I was way too over interested and worried about girls and I'm sure that came across to them.
Thanks man.
Have you (recently) asked this girl if she wants to grab a drink one on one with you? I've banged girls where the conversation felt like pulling teeth, but there were other indicators of attraction so I went for it. My guess is some girls find it hard to talk to guys they're attracted to and it comes across as stand-offishness because they don't want to appear weak/shy. A few times I've been like, man why is she so standoffish and then I realised I was being the exact same way in my attempt to not show how interested I am! Often it's best to engage these girls in messages, you could write something like "Hey feel like we haven't chatted properly in ages, you free for a drink this week?"
(04-20-2017, 01:34 AM)CatMan Wrote: [ -> ]An hour or so before bed, I've developed a pretty powerful headache.
I took two extra strength Advils awhile ago, that usually removes it, but it's still there. I think it's slightly reduced though, surprised it's potent enough to stick around after them, and at this strength. It's rare for me to get one so strong. So are head aches in general, in fact.
Day 2 of B, finished my loops about 14-15 hours ago, so I'm surprised to see the headache start NOW. I never got a headache during my A run, closest thing were bouts of sudden strong exhaustion temporarily for an hour or so and then go away which is reasonable. In fact, I've never fully equated them to the sub, as many times I eat a large meal right beforehand, and I tend to get sleepy after that for awhile, so many instances could've simply been that, so it hasn't been a concern anymore on V3.1 thankfully! Especially compared to the GODLIKE constant exhaustion V3.0.1 did to me, derailing my life badly. And at times, on A I've had the feeling of extreme weight in my head at times. No headaches until just now, day 2 of B.
Thinking about if this Version B run is pointless and that I'm just chasing results, and that a week isn't enough to see something markedly different given my situation anyway. And that a longer term approach to just using A like I was is better for me. I've already accepted I will be the last to second last to see design goal performance from this sub, so chasing results like this seems to be a waste of possible clearing and healing time.
We'll see, something to think about before EST afternoon time when I have the time to listen to my loops as I always do.
I started getting headaches after switching to B. I didn't have any during A - just uncontrollable urges to drink, fap, eat junk. I had headaches 3 days in-a-row after switching to B, all about 12-15 hours (or more) after running the loops.
Hi Rob!
No, I haven't to be honest. I guess I figured it was a lost cause and a waste of time, especially given her odd behaviour. I guess with my past and my issues with deservedness with women and how they've felt impossible to get, and her amazing gorgeous looks and how she would have limitless options, I felt she was way out of my league anyway and it wasn't realistic to pine for her. I could try again, I wouldn't mind doing it, if I get some time with her and some positive signals like she used to give.
Regardless, I know I don't care nowhere near as much about this with her, or any others as I used to. A lot of this is to learn about the "why" behind it all, and not so much the actual dating as even that is far enough out of my reality to ascertain whether or not I truly want that. It's difficult to describe, but the dating/sex stuff still doesn't seem that realistic, or close enough for me to know whether or not I truly WANT that even. At this point, my reason for using the program is to see if it works on me and that I can have some sexual power and choice for the first time in my life, some clear signs of women I find attractive finding ME attractive, to see that's possible in reality I suppose. I've never experienced that before, so I feel that's the first step I need before I can decide if I want a girlfriend, or a FWB or whatever, who knows. Anything beyond that, I haven't seriously considered due to it being far enough away from my current reality, it isn't really internalised it is possible. I hope that makes as much sense in a post as it does in my head, I just don't want to get ahead of myself. One step at a time.
Hey Boss!
Interesting we both get headaches once switching to B, and the same time elapsed since loops finished give or take. Wow.
I'm thinking of just giving up on "quick" or "short term" results, and just going back to A long term like I planned. I don't think given my history on the sub so far I will have miraculous results within a week of B. Doesn't seem realistic, and I don't want to get disappointed or put an expectation on myself or the sub, or the girls around me.
I haven't listened to my loops today yet, I was held up until now. So I can still switch to A starting today. I need to think about this a bit.
(04-20-2017, 12:49 PM)CatMan Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Rob!
No, I haven't to be honest. I guess I figured it was a lost cause and a waste of time, especially given her odd behaviour. I guess with my past and my issues with deservedness with women and how they've felt impossible to get, and her amazing gorgeous looks and how she would have limitless options, I felt she was way out of my league anyway and it wasn't realistic to pine for her. I could try again, I wouldn't mind doing it, if I get some time with her and some positive signals like she used to give.
Regardless, I know I don't care nowhere near as much about this with her, or any others as I used to. A lot of this is to learn about the "why" behind it all, and not so much the actual dating as even that is far enough out of my reality to ascertain whether or not I truly want that. It's difficult to describe, but the dating/sex stuff still doesn't seem that realistic, or close enough for me to know whether or not I truly WANT that even. At this point, my reason for using the program is to see if it works on me and that I can have some sexual power and choice for the first time in my life, some clear signs of women I find attractive finding ME attractive, to see that's possible in reality I suppose. I've never experienced that before, so I feel that's the first step I need before I can decide if I want a girlfriend, or a FWB or whatever, who knows. Anything beyond that, I haven't seriously considered due to it being far enough away from my current reality, it isn't really internalised it is possible. I hope that makes as much sense in a post as it does in my head, I just don't want to get ahead of myself. One step at a time.
Hey Boss!
Interesting we both get headaches once switching to B, and the same time elapsed since loops finished give or take. Wow.
I'm thinking of just giving up on "quick" or "short term" results, and just going back to A long term like I planned. I don't think given my history on the sub so far I will have miraculous results within a week of B. Doesn't seem realistic, and I don't want to get disappointed or put an expectation on myself or the sub, or the girls around me.
I haven't listened to my loops today yet, I was held up until now. So I can still switch to A starting today. I need to think about this a bit.
I'd say stick to B for a week or so. It's not that you're chasing short results. You're dealing your issues from another angle. The headaches are from resistance -- I get them too when I run any version without clearing. Once they pass, however, you'll find that you've "upgraded."
CatMan, I suggested you do B for a week because I wanted you to see the contrast between A and B. Of course you'll just dismiss it as invalid regardless, but there is a contrast, and the program is working. You're just fighting it tooth and nail still.
The key to your success is going to be to change your point of view from this load of beta bullshit:
Quote:No, I haven't to be honest. I guess I figured it was a lost cause and a waste of time, especially given her odd behaviour. I guess with my past and my issues with deservedness with women and how they've felt impossible to get, and her amazing gorgeous looks and how she would have limitless options, I felt she was way out of my league anyway and it wasn't realistic to pine for her. I could try again, I wouldn't mind doing it, if I get some time with her and some positive signals like she used to give.
to something a woman might think is worth having sex with:
Quote:No woman is better than me. No woman is out of my league. I am at least as good as, if not better than, any woman on earth. I deserve any woman I want, in any way I want. Women are fortunate to have a chance to be with someone as awesome as I am. I can do and have anything I want.
This is a huge part of why I get laid on demand, and you don't. You believe the former, and I believe the latter. What woman wants what you wrote? Forget high value females... not even average females would go for that.
There is no doubt that you need to focus on A. But a week on B will give you some contrast. That's why I suggested it.
Sure thing
, B it is then.
I just didn't want to chase short term results which didn't seem practical, that's all. I wasn't sure B would do a ton in such a short time, like I was unfairly expecting too much. And that long term A and forgetting about results for awhile would be best.
I'm not sure what you are implying by "dismiss it as invalid", dismiss what? Are we going to get into another debate about what "working" or "results" mean to us? I bought the program for EXTERNAL results and "working" to me means EXTERNAL results. I've said this so many times. I don't equate dreams, looks or glances, or randoms pointing their feet in my general direction to
"...people who are of the gender you find sexually attractive to be irresistibly attracted to you and aroused by you sexually to the degree that they actually and repeatedly try to initiate and have as much physical sex with you as you allow them to." All I'm doing is measuring my "results" against the design goal to see if it's "working" for me. That's it! It's weird how I keep being denigrated and discredited for that. And lmao at the "beta" stuff... I only think that way because of what has happened in the past creating it and reinforcing it. They do seem impossible to get as they have been, if they were easy for me to get, I wouldn't have had the trauma and wouldn't have these issues. I'm not sure how to get past it, besides attracting women to prove the old reality outdated. It's like the chicken and the egg to me.
Anyway, listening to B right now.
Until we motivate the males enough, they will resist allowing the females to initiate sex with them, because they so deeply base their reality on the belief that they must pursue to achieve sex. And until we sufficiently motivate the females, they will resist allowing themselves to initiate sex with males in ways that are obvious in "male-ese" instead of being obvious in "female-ese".
What we are seeing, that you dismiss, is "female-ese". What you demand is "male-ese".
Males and females do not speak the same language, or communicate the same way. Getting a man to even realize this is constantly frustrating for females, as society has demanded of them that they are not allowed to communicate openly, as is expected of males.
They therefore communicate in subtle ways, such as hinting, body language, and creating opportunities for a male to act in order to achieve the end goal. A woman who acts like a man when it comes to sex is instantly regarded as, and derided as, a variety of very negative things.
What you are looking for is the results of DMSI 3.x-Final. Where we have everything ready and she is sufficiently influenced and motivated to communicate her need for sex in a male communication style.
But just because so far we do not have that happening to everyone, does not mean it is not going to happen, is not possible or is not happening for anyone.
A big part of the reason others are getting better results is that they understand what I just said. A woman communicates like a woman, and a man communicates like a man. And while the goal of DMSI is to make a woman communicate and pursue like a man, when used by a straight man, it is not a binary journey.
There are steps and stages of increasing effectiveness and success on the way from 0 to 100.
You are demanding that if it's not 100, it's 0. That's not the case. You don't take a whole staircase in one step. Likewise, we are not going to achieve the goal in one try. Each iteration shows me what I need to do to enhance and increase the results towards the goal. And each release gets us a greater percentage of the way to the goal. But you are refusing to see anything but the end goal. And if that is how you want to play it, you're going to have to wait until we have built DMSI 3.x-Final to get any "real" results. Even though you've been getting real results for a while now.
It boils down to you trying to resist the program by raising the bar. And I'm pretty sure that's conscious resistance. But whatever, we'll get there regardless.
Well I've also constantly said that I was merely looking for one clear sign it's working for me. That would prove it's the real deal and the past isn't applicable anymore. That doesn't mean SEX in and of itself. Just something with a girl I know wouldn't have happened before DMSI to show it is actually working for me. Asking me for a date, a kiss, whatever, as long as it's clear and wouldn't have happened before DMSI. That's IT, nothing unreasonable.
Sex is too far away to really seriously think about at this point, just a single clear indicator of something that wouldn't have happened otherwise. That's all I'm looking for.
I know it's easy to write me off as "raising the bar" and claim I'm doing "conscious resistance" which makes zero sense because I bought the program even while listening to another program to support this project from day one. And have faithfully listened for like an entire year now. If it's any resistance it's SUBconscious, not conscious itself clearly based off all that...but I've NEVER deviated from this sentiment of wanting one sign in reality it works for me with girls. It's been the same thing I'm looking for the whole time. I'm looking for one clear sign it works for me, that's it, that doesn't have to be sex. I've never raised the bar one time.
We'll see in time if that can happen.
However, I completely agree the genders speak in vastly different languages, that much is crystal clear. It's also clear this will take a lot longer than a year of listening to see tangible results. I'm accepting that now.
I'll finish out the week of B and then go back to A and probably cut out the updates, take down the journal as it doesn't seem to be relevant anymore. If I dig in for a long term run of A, there will likely be a whole lot of dead spots in progress so to speak, so journaling won't be very useful to development.
(04-20-2017, 06:31 PM)Shannon Wrote: [ -> ]What you are looking for is the results of DMSI 3.x-Final. Where we have everything ready and she is sufficiently influenced and motivated to communicate her need for sex in a male communication style.
I'm relieved to read this. Just today I thought "I hope DMSI doesn't still need us to pursue women and speak womanese". Well, that was the gist.
Taking down the journal will not be helpful. It would be useful for you to occasionally review it, as will it be for me.