Subliminal Talk

You're clearly intelligent, perceptive, and empathetic of other's plights. You share some deep insight around the board. I'd say if I met you, I'd be surprised if you didn't come across as a completely capable person. So yeah, break those false beliefs about yourself, because from where I sit, there's no truth to them. Try saying/thinking, "Regardless of feeling *this way about myself* right now, I could be wrong. I have a lot to offer, such as 'A,B,C.'. I'm going to do 'X' anyway, even if just as an experiment, and see what happens."

I'm always amazed by people with NO talent and a completely diminished capacity for deep thought who get out there and do things, without care for how they're being perceived. Gotta give 'em credit for that, I guess. Get some of that confidence and come-what-may attitude, I think you'll start enjoying yourself a lot more, see who you really are, and tell that shitty little voice to STFU!

(07-27-2017, 08:55 PM)RTBoss Wrote: [ -> ]You're clearly intelligent, perceptive, and empathetic of other's plights. You share some deep insight around the board. I'd say if I met you, I'd be surprised if you didn't come across as a completely capable person. So yeah, break those false beliefs about yourself, because from where I sit, there's no truth to them. Try saying/thinking, "Regardless of feeling *this way about myself* right now, I could be wrong. I have a lot to offer, such as 'A,B,C.'. I'm going to do 'X' anyway, even if just as an experiment, and see what happens."

I'm always amazed by people with NO talent and a completely diminished capacity for deep thought who get out there and do things, without care for how they're being perceived. Gotta give 'em credit for that, I guess. Get some of that confidence and come-what-may attitude, I think you'll start enjoying yourself a lot more, see who you really are, and tell that shitty little voice to STFU!

Thanks man, it means a lot to me. Trying to get this stuff sorted. Those types of people have always been a mystery to me. Seems like the more capacity for self reflection and deep thought the more of a hole you can dig yourself in. I'm working on trying to be less serious about my life. Not being irresponsible, just not treating things like life or death all the time. I think I've got a lot of untapped potential, just a lot of that energy has been directed at putting myself down instead of building myself up. Funny how life works sometimes, the most capable people are sometimes the ones who don't rise to the top. I like to think there's a lesson in there somewhere that'll give me strengths in my life.

Been a while since I've done one of these, but here goes. Just need to get some stuff off my chest and vent a little.

As I found myself reading the shadow work book I thought about the millions of other books on the market. I've thought about the books I've read. I've thought about the people's lives who miraculously changed. And I thought about my life that stayed the same and probably thousands of others who didn't get results. So it makes me think some of these people think they know more than they actually do. I thought about all the people out there in the world who can barely do their own jobs, but are somewhat delusional in how excellent they are. Then it got me thinking I'm sure the same exists in the self help community. Then I realized it's like the blind leading the blind.

I guess what I'm saying is, I want to get to the source. I want to find the truth behind all this. What limits people and why some of us are held back. Why some can just do a little bit of positive visualization and their life alters course dramatically while others attempt the same and things actually get worse. I want to get deeper than "oh you just need to stop being a negative person". I hate the new age movement with a passion. I used to be roped into it until I realized it's regression, not advancement. They discourage more critical thinking as "ego", anything that shatters the perfectly created illusion of "you create your own destiny" they stick their head in the sand and ignore. But that's not how you grow, that's not how you help others.

How many of those healing modalities have you seen come out? Where the person promises the world and then it's just some rehash of energy clearing or emotional releasing. It's all the same shit repackaged in a shiny new box and people just keep perpetuating this cycle of regurgitating this stuff for financial gain. It's always the same excuse, it's not the tool it's the person. Well if your tool is designed to help people and it can't do that, guess what? It's not a good tool. If I had a nail and I tried to hammer it in with a screwdriver people would think there's something really wrong with that. But it happens all the damn time in the self help industry. It's the individual, not the tool they claim.

I'm really heated right now because I've met a lot of people that share my struggle and I want to help them in some way but I can't. And I'm sick of these people being left by the wayside as "negative" or "toxic" because they can't adapt some cult like positivity mentality.

In my hugely passionate emotional rant I accept that I could be completely off the mark here. But it's my experience of what I've encountered with a lot of this stuff. Also why I've mostly stuck to these subliminals because they offer concrete changes, not just wishful thinking.

Dave Chappelle gets it.

(07-29-2017, 07:33 AM)mat422 Wrote: [ -> ]Been a while since I've done one of these, but here goes. Just need to get some stuff off my chest and vent a little.

As I found myself reading the shadow work book I thought about the millions of other books on the market. I've thought about the books I've read. I've thought about the people's lives who miraculously changed. And I thought about my life that stayed the same and probably thousands of others who didn't get results. So it makes me think some of these people think they know more than they actually do. I thought about all the people out there in the world who can barely do their own jobs, but are somewhat delusional in how excellent they are. Then it got me thinking I'm sure the same exists in the self help community. Then I realized it's like the blind leading the blind.

This is something I've been wrestling with lately. How people don't know much, but they say they do. I guess it's a self-esteem "maintanence" behavior, or pride, or saving face, but it's true: most people know shit.

And, advise given to your unique situation can't possibly cover everything. Because only you know you.

So I take it all with a grain of salt, and go with what works.

More and more I'm trying to focus on getting results, not on "doing the right thing". What gets results IS the right thing, but there are many ways to get results. Some better than others.

(07-29-2017, 08:10 AM)SargeMaximus Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-29-2017, 07:33 AM)mat422 Wrote: [ -> ]Been a while since I've done one of these, but here goes. Just need to get some stuff off my chest and vent a little.

As I found myself reading the shadow work book I thought about the millions of other books on the market. I've thought about the books I've read. I've thought about the people's lives who miraculously changed. And I thought about my life that stayed the same and probably thousands of others who didn't get results. So it makes me think some of these people think they know more than they actually do. I thought about all the people out there in the world who can barely do their own jobs, but are somewhat delusional in how excellent they are. Then it got me thinking I'm sure the same exists in the self help community. Then I realized it's like the blind leading the blind.

This is something I've been wrestling with lately. How people don't know much, but they say they do. I guess it's a self-esteem "maintanence" behavior, or pride, or saving face, but it's true: most people know shit.

And, advise given to your unique situation can't possibly cover everything. Because only you know you.

So I take it all with a grain of salt, and go with what works.

More and more I'm trying to focus on getting results, not on "doing the right thing". What gets results IS the right thing, but there are many ways to get results. Some better than others.

It's a fine line. Like I've said before, sometimes we have defense mechanism that aren't readily apparent to us. So in my case I can have a tendency to dismiss stuff or think I know better when I don't. It all seems like one big crapshoot at times. It's the most frustrating thing for me. It seems like I'm so open minded I believe everything or I'm so closed off I stick to my narrow perspective. Black and white thinking. My mind has so many twist and turns to it I don't know what to believe anymore.

---

Got in my car today and told myself the next song that comes up on my phone has a lesson to teach me. So I hit shuffle and this is the track that played.



The message is about racism. But it's not limited to that. It's about denial, keeping the darker aspects of ourselves hidden and denying them. All the while crafting elaborate stories to protect our own egos from the truth.

For me this goes back to my perfectionism. It's a direct result of holding the internal belief that I'm not good enough. My whole life has been dedicated to proving that wrong by trying to be great at everything I do and never accepting anything less. Also being incredibly judgemental of imperfections in others.

The most difficult thing has been staying with that inner wound and acknowledging it to heal it. Because the perfectionist in me says I'm overthinking it, I'm just making excuses, that it can't be me because I'm as emotionally healthy as I could possibly be. All thoughts fueled by the need to be perfect and get me to avoid accepting the truth.

It's funny because prior to this I held the belief that too much digging was pointless. But I think as I got closer to my core issues my mind started creating distractions to pull me away from it. I don't think you can ever dig too deep. If anything I didn't dig deep enough. To me I consider an issue healed when your outer life reflects how you want your life to be. Otherwise you'll just keep running into the same issues until you get your internal beliefs sorted out. No more of this, I'm healed so why is my life still a mess? Nope, my life is a reflection of my inner world.

(07-30-2017, 01:14 PM)mat422 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-29-2017, 08:10 AM)SargeMaximus Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-29-2017, 07:33 AM)mat422 Wrote: [ -> ]Been a while since I've done one of these, but here goes. Just need to get some stuff off my chest and vent a little.

As I found myself reading the shadow work book I thought about the millions of other books on the market. I've thought about the books I've read. I've thought about the people's lives who miraculously changed. And I thought about my life that stayed the same and probably thousands of others who didn't get results. So it makes me think some of these people think they know more than they actually do. I thought about all the people out there in the world who can barely do their own jobs, but are somewhat delusional in how excellent they are. Then it got me thinking I'm sure the same exists in the self help community. Then I realized it's like the blind leading the blind.

This is something I've been wrestling with lately. How people don't know much, but they say they do. I guess it's a self-esteem "maintanence" behavior, or pride, or saving face, but it's true: most people know shit.

And, advise given to your unique situation can't possibly cover everything. Because only you know you.

So I take it all with a grain of salt, and go with what works.

More and more I'm trying to focus on getting results, not on "doing the right thing". What gets results IS the right thing, but there are many ways to get results. Some better than others.

It's a fine line. Like I've said before, sometimes we have defense mechanism that aren't readily apparent to us. So in my case I can have a tendency to dismiss stuff or think I know better when I don't. It all seems like one big crapshoot at times. It's the most frustrating thing for me. It seems like I'm so open minded I believe everything or I'm so closed off I stick to my narrow perspective. Black and white thinking. My mind has so many twist and turns to it I don't know what to believe anymore.

Lol, tell me about it. This is me to a "T"

The crazy thing is, how does anybody get good at anything except repeatedly coming to the same conclusion or getting the same results? So if being open minded is a good thing, then experts are very narrow-minded. If you get my drift.

(07-30-2017, 01:32 PM)SargeMaximus Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-30-2017, 01:14 PM)mat422 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-29-2017, 08:10 AM)SargeMaximus Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-29-2017, 07:33 AM)mat422 Wrote: [ -> ]Been a while since I've done one of these, but here goes. Just need to get some stuff off my chest and vent a little.

As I found myself reading the shadow work book I thought about the millions of other books on the market. I've thought about the books I've read. I've thought about the people's lives who miraculously changed. And I thought about my life that stayed the same and probably thousands of others who didn't get results. So it makes me think some of these people think they know more than they actually do. I thought about all the people out there in the world who can barely do their own jobs, but are somewhat delusional in how excellent they are. Then it got me thinking I'm sure the same exists in the self help community. Then I realized it's like the blind leading the blind.

This is something I've been wrestling with lately. How people don't know much, but they say they do. I guess it's a self-esteem "maintanence" behavior, or pride, or saving face, but it's true: most people know shit.

And, advise given to your unique situation can't possibly cover everything. Because only you know you.

So I take it all with a grain of salt, and go with what works.

More and more I'm trying to focus on getting results, not on "doing the right thing". What gets results IS the right thing, but there are many ways to get results. Some better than others.

It's a fine line. Like I've said before, sometimes we have defense mechanism that aren't readily apparent to us. So in my case I can have a tendency to dismiss stuff or think I know better when I don't. It all seems like one big crapshoot at times. It's the most frustrating thing for me. It seems like I'm so open minded I believe everything or I'm so closed off I stick to my narrow perspective. Black and white thinking. My mind has so many twist and turns to it I don't know what to believe anymore.

Lol, tell me about it. This is me to a "T"

The crazy thing is, how does anybody get good at anything except repeatedly coming to the same conclusion or getting the same results? So if being open minded is a good thing, then experts are very narrow-minded. If you get my drift.

Yeah I hear you. This kind of goes onto the objective vs subjective truth philosophical discussion. For every person thinking they have some objective fact about how the world works, another refutes it and at the same time demonstrates how it isn't true. The only thing I can really say is that people have their own internal belief structures and models of reality. At any point we are operating out of some kind of belief structure. Some people stay within it and some people venture out of it. I guess it all depends what you personally want to do. Get lots of success being an asshole? Ok. Get lots of success being a good person? Also ok. It just seems like it's more about the intent and power behind the individual rather than their actions or methods. So maybe it's a case of opening the mind and expanding possibilities then choosing whatever you want. So we shift from open mindedness to narrow mindedness, it's like a constantly fluctuating state rather than a static one.

Having said that, thinking about it really does my head in so I'd imagine a lot of people just don't even bother thinking of things in these terms. Fear seems like it would lead people to gravitate towards what they know and are familiar with rather than venture outside of that. When you have a sort of roadmap to life things seem easier or more stable. But when you get rid of that roadmap it's kind of like flying blind.

This got longer than I expected lol. Anyway, yeah. It's not an easy question that's for damn sure.

(07-30-2017, 02:17 PM)mat422 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-30-2017, 01:32 PM)SargeMaximus Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-30-2017, 01:14 PM)mat422 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-29-2017, 08:10 AM)SargeMaximus Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-29-2017, 07:33 AM)mat422 Wrote: [ -> ]Been a while since I've done one of these, but here goes. Just need to get some stuff off my chest and vent a little.

As I found myself reading the shadow work book I thought about the millions of other books on the market. I've thought about the books I've read. I've thought about the people's lives who miraculously changed. And I thought about my life that stayed the same and probably thousands of others who didn't get results. So it makes me think some of these people think they know more than they actually do. I thought about all the people out there in the world who can barely do their own jobs, but are somewhat delusional in how excellent they are. Then it got me thinking I'm sure the same exists in the self help community. Then I realized it's like the blind leading the blind.

This is something I've been wrestling with lately. How people don't know much, but they say they do. I guess it's a self-esteem "maintanence" behavior, or pride, or saving face, but it's true: most people know shit.

And, advise given to your unique situation can't possibly cover everything. Because only you know you.

So I take it all with a grain of salt, and go with what works.

More and more I'm trying to focus on getting results, not on "doing the right thing". What gets results IS the right thing, but there are many ways to get results. Some better than others.

It's a fine line. Like I've said before, sometimes we have defense mechanism that aren't readily apparent to us. So in my case I can have a tendency to dismiss stuff or think I know better when I don't. It all seems like one big crapshoot at times. It's the most frustrating thing for me. It seems like I'm so open minded I believe everything or I'm so closed off I stick to my narrow perspective. Black and white thinking. My mind has so many twist and turns to it I don't know what to believe anymore.

Lol, tell me about it. This is me to a "T"

The crazy thing is, how does anybody get good at anything except repeatedly coming to the same conclusion or getting the same results? So if being open minded is a good thing, then experts are very narrow-minded. If you get my drift.

Yeah I hear you. This kind of goes onto the objective vs subjective truth philosophical discussion. For every person thinking they have some objective fact about how the world works, another refutes it and at the same time demonstrates how it isn't true. The only thing I can really say is that people have their own internal belief structures and models of reality. At any point we are operating out of some kind of belief structure. Some people stay within it and some people venture out of it. I guess it all depends what you personally want to do. Get lots of success being an asshole? Ok. Get lots of success being a good person? Also ok. It just seems like it's more about the intent and power behind the individual rather than their actions or methods. So maybe it's a case of opening the mind and expanding possibilities then choosing whatever you want. So we shift from open mindedness to narrow mindedness, it's like a constantly fluctuating state rather than a static one.

Hmm, very interesting thoughts you have matt.

As far as "objective vs. subjective truth": I'm more or less of the opinion that results in the external world are the objective reality. That's how I got so good at sales, simply studying the effects I was having and tweaking my approach.

Eventually, one can come into harmony with "the way things are".

Interestingly, now that I'm entertaining other schools of thought, my results have all but evaporated, but that is besides the point.

I would say there are multiple ways of doing things, but unless they yield results externally, they are not worth keeping. SO yes, asshole vs. "good guy" can work, but only if they DO work, in which case you choose which you resonate with most.

HOWEVER, if one works and one doesn't, you have your clear winner, while if neither works, you are missing the key element that DOES work.

In any case, what DOES work is the objective reality. IMO.

The other side of it is emotional impact. If you have STRONG emotions (whether they be good or bad) you will see effects ripple in the outside world, while if you do not or are in a state of confusion or apathy, things will be ghosting you (results themselves will ghost you, this is what is happening to me in sales ATM).

Despite getting an app yesterday. I got that app while I was very nervous (strong emotion). Once I got it, the nervousness subsided and I got nothing further. Coincidence? Hard to say, N=1 after all, However the flip side is not considered in that I could at one time get apps in sales on command.

But I don't want to talk about my sales woes, I'm simply trying to identify the "it" factor.

Everywhere you look, 20% of the effort yields 80% of the results.

And so, perhaps learning about some things are simply learning about the other 80% that yields only 20% (like learning body language. I'm pretty much convinced knowing BL is useless unless you need to know it to make money, which I don't in my profession, because I made money for years without knowing anything about it.), which is why they never seem to improve anything all that much, while if you find the "it" factor, you've found the 20% that yields 80%

So I suppose you have to know what is needed to get the results you want, and this is done by knowing what your outcome is, and knowing if you are getting closer or farther away from that outcome and what needs to be done to achieve it.

(07-30-2017, 02:17 PM)mat422 Wrote: [ -> ]Having said that, thinking about it really does my head in so I'd imagine a lot of people just don't even bother thinking of things in these terms. Fear seems like it would lead people to gravitate towards what they know and are familiar with rather than venture outside of that. When you have a sort of roadmap to life things seem easier or more stable. But when you get rid of that roadmap it's kind of like flying blind.

This got longer than I expected lol. Anyway, yeah. It's not an easy question that's for damn sure.

No, it definitely isn't.

And yeah, that's a good point: "But when you get rid of that roadmap it's kind of like flying blind. " which is what can happen when learning new ways of doing things.

Quote:As far as "objective vs. subjective truth": I'm more or less of the opinion that results in the external world are the objective reality. That's how I got so good at sales, simply studying the effects I was having and tweaking my approach.

Eventually, one can come into harmony with "the way things are".

Interestingly, now that I'm entertaining other schools of thought, my results have all but evaporated, but that is besides the point.

I would say there are multiple ways of doing things, but unless they yield results externally, they are not worth keeping. SO yes, asshole vs. "good guy" can work, but only if they DO work, in which case you choose which you resonate with most.

HOWEVER, if one works and one doesn't, you have your clear winner, while if neither works, you are missing the key element that DOES work.

In any case, what DOES work is the objective reality. IMO.

The problem lies in the fact that none of us are completely objective. Like if someone holds the belief that being an asshole is what attracts women to you and tries to be nice it won't work because their personal reality is asshole= results. What I'm trying to get at is results don't always determine the objective truth. Not if the thing analyzing these truths is as subjective as the human mind. The thing is with our beliefs sometimes they are so ingrained in us and so much a part of our reality we can't think outside of the box. They are hidden, we can't access them so we naturally assume they aren't there. Then comes confirmation bias where we only collect evidence or see what we want to see to support that internal belief structure.

Quote:The other side of it is emotional impact. If you have STRONG emotions (whether they be good or bad) you will see effects ripple in the outside world, while if you do not or are in a state of confusion or apathy, things will be ghosting you (results themselves will ghost you, this is what is happening to me in sales ATM).

Despite getting an app yesterday. I got that app while I was very nervous (strong emotion). Once I got it, the nervousness subsided and I got nothing further. Coincidence? Hard to say, N=1 after all, However the flip side is not considered in that I could at one time get apps in sales on command.

But I don't want to talk about my sales woes, I'm simply trying to identify the "it" factor.

Everywhere you look, 20% of the effort yields 80% of the results.

And so, perhaps learning about some things are simply learning about the other 80% that yields only 20% (like learning body language. I'm pretty much convinced knowing BL is useless unless you need to know it to make money, which I don't in my profession, because I made money for years without knowing anything about it.), which is why they never seem to improve anything all that much, while if you find the "it" factor, you've found the 20% that yields 80%

So I suppose you have to know what is needed to get the results you want, and this is done by knowing what your outcome is, and knowing if you are getting closer or farther away from that outcome and what needs to be done to achieve it.

What you wrote about body language and sales reminds me of something in my life related to music and music theory. Music theory is often cited as something really vital to making music. But there are many successful artists who don't know theory and there are many mediocre ones who do know it. So that "it" factor you're talking about. I get it. In my honest opinion that's what separates people from a life of success, but I think the "it" factor is different for every one of us. It's a very intangible yet real thing. I think it's more about identifying our flaws and working on them, while capitalizing on our strengths. So it's not one thing, but a collection of many lessons we have to learn.

I honestly believe the "it" factor is just our beliefs. The correct beliefs being internalized for our desired outcome = success. All that overthinking and trying to figure out what to do goes right out the window because we embody it instead of trying to become it.

(07-31-2017, 10:00 AM)mat422 Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:As far as "objective vs. subjective truth": I'm more or less of the opinion that results in the external world are the objective reality. That's how I got so good at sales, simply studying the effects I was having and tweaking my approach.

Eventually, one can come into harmony with "the way things are".

Interestingly, now that I'm entertaining other schools of thought, my results have all but evaporated, but that is besides the point.

I would say there are multiple ways of doing things, but unless they yield results externally, they are not worth keeping. SO yes, asshole vs. "good guy" can work, but only if they DO work, in which case you choose which you resonate with most.

HOWEVER, if one works and one doesn't, you have your clear winner, while if neither works, you are missing the key element that DOES work.

In any case, what DOES work is the objective reality. IMO.

The problem lies in the fact that none of us are completely objective. Like if someone holds the belief that being an asshole is what attracts women to you and tries to be nice it won't work because their personal reality is asshole= results. What I'm trying to get at is results don't always determine the objective truth. Not if the thing analyzing these truths is as subjective as the human mind. The thing is with our beliefs sometimes they are so ingrained in us and so much a part of our reality we can't think outside of the box. They are hidden, we can't access them so we naturally assume they aren't there. Then comes confirmation bias where we only collect evidence or see what we want to see to support that internal belief structure.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here.

If something doesn't yield external results, it does not work (for the person using it).

The reason why so many different things work for so many different people is because people are different. What works for one might not work for another. But still, if something gives external results, it DOES "work". Whoever is analyzing it is irrelevant. The external results are the objective reality.

Now, I agree some people may not be self-aware enough to know what, exactly, is causing the results. Like in the case of the jerk, "treat women like shit!" is his motto, but maybe the reason it works is because he and the girls are having fun while he does it, and that is what is really turning them on. Not him treating them like shit, but his self-amusement and including them.

(07-31-2017, 10:00 AM)mat422 Wrote: [ -> ]What you wrote about body language and sales reminds me of something in my life related to music and music theory. Music theory is often cited as something really vital to making music. But there are many successful artists who don't know theory and there are many mediocre ones who do know it. So that "it" factor you're talking about. I get it. In my honest opinion that's what separates people from a life of success, but I think the "it" factor is different for every one of us. It's a very intangible yet real thing. I think it's more about identifying our flaws and working on them, while capitalizing on our strengths. So it's not one thing, but a collection of many lessons we have to learn.

I honestly believe the "it" factor is just our beliefs. The correct beliefs being internalized for our desired outcome = success. All that overthinking and trying to figure out what to do goes right out the window because we embody it instead of trying to become it.

Wow man, I agree 100% with this. Very aptly put.

In sales I've been told I'm a natural and can get away with things others can't. I think that is a sure sign one is dwelling in "it". Whether it be sales, music, women, doesn't matter.

I also think that, along with identifying flaws and capitalizing on strengths, it is more or less about having the courage to be what you know you are, and not hiding it from others. Not imposing, but not hiding. Interacting, yet not dictating. Being, not forcing.

EDIT: Oh, btw, have you ever read "The Alchemist"? It's a great book. In it he talks about the objective reality I'm trying to describe. He calls it "the wind" I believe. I need to read it again but yeah, great book for that.

(07-31-2017, 10:27 AM)SargeMaximus Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-31-2017, 10:00 AM)mat422 Wrote: [ -> ]The problem lies in the fact that none of us are completely objective. Like if someone holds the belief that being an asshole is what attracts women to you and tries to be nice it won't work because their personal reality is asshole= results. What I'm trying to get at is results don't always determine the objective truth. Not if the thing analyzing these truths is as subjective as the human mind. The thing is with our beliefs sometimes they are so ingrained in us and so much a part of our reality we can't think outside of the box. They are hidden, we can't access them so we naturally assume they aren't there. Then comes confirmation bias where we only collect evidence or see what we want to see to support that internal belief structure.

I'm going to have to disagree with you here.

If something doesn't yield external results, it does not work (for the person using it).

The reason why so many different things work for so many different people is because people are different. What works for one might not work for another. But still, if something gives external results, it DOES "work". Whoever is analyzing it is irrelevant. The external results are the objective reality.

Now, I agree some people may not be self-aware enough to know what, exactly, is causing the results. Like in the case of the jerk, "treat women like shit!" is his motto, but maybe the reason it works is because he and the girls are having fun while he does it, and that is what is really turning them on. Not him treating them like shit, but his self-amusement and including them.

I want to chime in here :angel:

If something isn't working for you as a person, but it does work for someone else. It's in your subjective reality that this thing doesn't work. But in the objective reality, there is something, a variable that isn't right. Else it would've brought you the same result.

So then comes the question of why don't some things work when another person does it? Well, I've talked a little about it earlier, and while I certainly don't have all the answers. A lot of it comes from your beliefs in your intentions. I've made this example before and I make it now again.
If a man pulls a woman's hair it can be seen as dominating and sexually arousing, but it can also be seen as assaulting a woman. What is it that decide these different perspectives of the seemingly exact same thing?
The intentions, principles, and beliefs behind these actions bring forward the different results.

With that example of a guy believing he can treat women like shit and get laid. It's like you say the feelings he gives these girls by the way he's acting that (may) get him laid. But objectively his beliefs is faulty, even if they do get him "the results". Subjectively they work, but objectively they are faulty.

There may be some truth in these beliefs making them work (subjectively) for that person, but this person most likely fails to comprehend the bigger picture to make this an objective reality. Not to mention each time a woman gives him a "good response" he will strengthen these beliefs even more and more, believing they are correct while they aren't.

Quote:I'm going to have to disagree with you here.

If something doesn't yield external results, it does not work (for the person using it).

The reason why so many different things work for so many different people is because people are different. What works for one might not work for another. But still, if something gives external results, it DOES "work". Whoever is analyzing it is irrelevant. The external results are the objective reality.

Now, I agree some people may not be self-aware enough to know what, exactly, is causing the results. Like in the case of the jerk, "treat women like shit!" is his motto, but maybe the reason it works is because he and the girls are having fun while he does it, and that is what is really turning them on. Not him treating them like shit, but his self-amusement and including them.

But my question is how does anyone know they are self aware enough to figure out what is really generating the results? That's what I'm getting at when I say the human mind is subjective. For example Shannon uses predictive models to aid in his subliminal creation, without those he stated we would still be at 3G tech I think. How can you personally know that the results you're witnessing are what you attribute them to? That's my constant thought process on this stuff.

Quote:Wow man, I agree 100% with this. Very aptly put.

In sales I've been told I'm a natural and can get away with things others can't. I think that is a sure sign one is dwelling in "it". Whether it be sales, music, women, doesn't matter.

I also think that, along with identifying flaws and capitalizing on strengths, it is more or less about having the courage to be what you know you are, and not hiding it from others. Not imposing, but not hiding. Interacting, yet not dictating. Being, not forcing.

EDIT: Oh, btw, have you ever read "The Alchemist"? It's a great book. In it he talks about the objective reality I'm trying to describe. He calls it "the wind" I believe. I need to read it again but yeah, great book for that.

Definitely something to having the courage to be who you are. But I think this goes back to things like fear. I always had the belief that the potential is there, it just needs to be released. The inner self is always pushing forward and naturally gravitates towards growth. It's just fear and doubt that holds us all back.

Never read The Alchemist, but I'll definitely take a look at it. Seems right up my alley. Right now I'm reading this book Mind power . It's really old, like 19th century, but I figured it could hold some wisdom.

Update. Job interview went well. Not as confident as I'd like, but you know I've reached a point in my life where I just want to be confident from this internal place. Not that bullshit surface level chest up, look people in the eyes, talk loud, etc. confidence that's just a mask. I guess a lot of this comes from the shadow work I've been doing. Fighting the anxiety, trying to hide it only made it stronger. When I owned it and told myself it's alright it got better. I wish everyone would stop hiding, I wish we as a society were more accepting of the negative aspects of ourselves instead of demonizing them and sticking them in a closet. We'll see what happens with the job. It felt like I was going to get it no matter what, as weird as that sounds. Like I could completely mess up the interview but I was destined to get it because it's on my life path.

Really weird thing happened last night though. I fell asleep listening to DMSI, but then woke up in this sort of daze or half asleep state. My body was buzzing, vibrating, whatever you want to call it. I noticed I was really afraid, wasn't sleep paralysis because I could still move. Felt like something was trying to pull me "out". I can't really describe it that well, but lets say it felt like leaving behind a crappy reality and getting pulled into a new one. No idea what the hell it was or how it's going to manifest as progress, but I'm not getting too ahead of myself here.

Also after I fell asleep had a really weird dream. If you could call it a dream, usually dreams tend to have some kind of theme for me or characters. But this one just felt like I left my physical body and was floating through different places. Going through walls and stuff, not really consciously choosing a direction just sort of floating and getting taken by some invisible current. Went to an abandon school building there was a number etched into the metal, 457. Just remember trying to write it down in my dream because I felt it had significance. After I left the school building I arrived at this house situated on a piece of land with an overview of a small body of water. Weird feeling of it being mine or that it was "home", made me feel peaceful.

(08-01-2017, 05:01 AM)mat422 Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:I'm going to have to disagree with you here.

If something doesn't yield external results, it does not work (for the person using it).

The reason why so many different things work for so many different people is because people are different. What works for one might not work for another. But still, if something gives external results, it DOES "work". Whoever is analyzing it is irrelevant. The external results are the objective reality.

Now, I agree some people may not be self-aware enough to know what, exactly, is causing the results. Like in the case of the jerk, "treat women like shit!" is his motto, but maybe the reason it works is because he and the girls are having fun while he does it, and that is what is really turning them on. Not him treating them like shit, but his self-amusement and including them.

But my question is how does anyone know they are self aware enough to figure out what is really generating the results? That's what I'm getting at when I say the human mind is subjective. For example Shannon uses predictive models to aid in his subliminal creation, without those he stated we would still be at 3G tech I think. How can you personally know that the results you're witnessing are what you attribute them to? That's my constant thought process on this stuff.

I hear you. That's a big part of it (predicting). If you can predict with reliable consistency, you've got a "winner".

If what you use (i.e "jerk game" or whatever) can be used, then not used, off and on, and you can see consistent results everytime it is "on", you've got a winner (or at least, you're close.). Do you really need to find out the TRUE reason behind it if it works? That's another can of worms. lol

(08-01-2017, 05:01 AM)mat422 Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:Wow man, I agree 100% with this. Very aptly put.

In sales I've been told I'm a natural and can get away with things others can't. I think that is a sure sign one is dwelling in "it". Whether it be sales, music, women, doesn't matter.

I also think that, along with identifying flaws and capitalizing on strengths, it is more or less about having the courage to be what you know you are, and not hiding it from others. Not imposing, but not hiding. Interacting, yet not dictating. Being, not forcing.

EDIT: Oh, btw, have you ever read "The Alchemist"? It's a great book. In it he talks about the objective reality I'm trying to describe. He calls it "the wind" I believe. I need to read it again but yeah, great book for that.

Definitely something to having the courage to be who you are. But I think this goes back to things like fear. I always had the belief that the potential is there, it just needs to be released. The inner self is always pushing forward and naturally gravitates towards growth. It's just fear and doubt that holds us all back.

Never read The Alchemist, but I'll definitely take a look at it. Seems right up my alley. Right now I'm reading this book Mind power . It's really old, like 19th century, but I figured it could hold some wisdom.

You could be right. Fear also has a powerful effect on other people. It's one of the few emotions I've seen translated to others from myself. Enthusiasm or happiness? Not so much.

Anyhow, I've not read that book of yours. I'm very skeptical on those kinds. I have a bunch of them (including the kybalion) but I wasn't able to use them to my advantage.

Anyhow, hope you like the Alchemist.