Shannon's Journal Discussion Thread, Vol.9

[Shannon]

I am planning to keep PRA v1 and offer it more for people who have non-complex PTSD, or those who cannot afford v2.  Both are valuable, and both have their place.

If and when you find out, would you let us know if v2 would be an upgrade in effectiveness over v1 for people without CPTSD? If it's even a little more effective, I'm buying it. At this point even a 5% gain to me is worth 650$.

As it is being designed specifically for people who have complex PTSD, I am not planning to test it on people who do not have complex PTSD.  However, I'm confident that it's improvement over v1 will exceed 5% for even people who do not have complex PTSD.

[Shannon]

If and when you find out, would you let us know if v2 would be an upgrade in effectiveness over v1 for people without CPTSD? If it's even a little more effective, I'm buying it. At this point even a 5% gain to me is worth 650$.

Going by the slanted additions, it's going to blow v. 1 out of the water.

It might actually be kinda overkill for people without complex trauma to work through, actually. But me, personally, I'm a firm believer in overkill. 

But that being said, it sounds like it's going to be good for pretty much anyone. But a higher price tag would go to show it's a serious program for people who are serious about getting better (but hopefully it won't cross the price-threshold of, say, 1.200 USD, as more than that may be difficult to come-by for people with actual CPTSD and related psychic illnesses, as holding down regular employment tends to be an issue while you're healing).

Part of why we have the option for subscriptions is to make available a significantly less expensive option so that more people can access and benefit from these programs.  That said, I am quite aware of the need to balance the price between what goes into it and what can be accessed by those who need it.  In the end, it will be the models deciding the price.  More often than noth, that does not give me the answer I wanted, but it is the answer that produces the best balance over time.

[Shannon]

P

A worthy question that many have when coming to subliminals for the first time. I will endeavor to explain it in a different way than I have in the past.



Imagine that your ears are a microphone, and the signal from the microphone ranges from -10 of whatever unit to +10.  Below -10 and no signal is generated; above +10, you suffer damage to the ears that prevents you from hearing.



Now imagine that you have two people monitoring the signal.  One has a gauge that only moves when the signal registers -8 to+10.  The other has a gauge that registers the full -10 to +10.



The person who has the gauge that registers -8 to +10 will tell you there is no sound when their gauge does not move; but the person whose gauge registers -9 - which is what the sound level actually is - sees this, notes it, and responds.



In this analogy, the conscious awareness - what "wakes up in the morning" - is the one with the gauge that registers -8 to +10, and the subconscious has the gauge that registers -10 to +10.  



Subliminals work by presenting a sound that is within this small range where the conscious either cannot differentiate, cannot sense or cannot  decipher the incoming signal, but the subconscious can.  



You can know it's not placebo by observing what happens when you don't know the program is playing.  If it still has the desired effects, then it's not placebo.  That is the easiest way to know for sure, but of course that's not easily done by yourself, or in a short period of time.



Generally speaking, it has been my observation that placebo strongly tends to fade out in a week or two.  After that, results in most cases must be the program.  There are cases where the placebo can become self sustaining, but most people, at least 80%, don't experience that because that seems to come from a fear based need for the program to work, rather than just a belief that it will.



You're welcome to test my programs under scientific conditions to verify that their effects are not placebo.  But aside from that, the only thing I can suggest is... if it works, and it works for more than a couple weeks... not placebo.  You can also read the article I wrote about what placebo is in the articles section of the forum.









The "silent subliminals" really are not silent.  They're what is known as "umbra ultrasonic", meaning they are pitch differenced to be past what your conscious mind can discern, but still discernible to the subconscious mind.  They're actually the same volume as the masking tracks the masked subliminals use.



I have some training as an audio engineer, and it drives me crazy because I can hear and discern things that nobody else can hear or pick out of the sounds around us.  I can hear people playing videos on their cell phones in public that my girlfriend cannot for example.  I can hear my neighbors a block and more away playing bass music when she hears nothing.  Your subconscious is significantly more sensitive to the world around you, through all of your senses, than your conscious mind can - or in some cases, is willing to - be.  Far beyond what I have been trained to detect and discern.  As far as I can tell, your subconscious can detect and respond to sounds as quiet as about -80 dB.





First, proper scripting.  Nothing else matters as much as proper scripting.  If the script is not done properly, you may have a variety of responses that do not match the desired outcome, and they can range from no response at all, to reversed results, to unexpected responses.  



Second, the way the script is subliminalized matters a lot. If you try to do the fancy tricks (speeding up the audio, lots of different voices at once, etc.), they can help but too much will overdo it and destroy the effect or render it impossible for your subconscious to decipher and comprehend. 



Third, the amount of input required to achieve the effect is determined by the script as well as the amount of input per unit of time.  If the script is poorly done, or does not use the special compression techniques advanced subliminals use, then you may need 30 days of use just to start seeing the first results, as the first generation subliminals did.  



Fourth,. whispering in an adjacent room will be too quiet, even for the subconscious.



And fifth, subliminals that are properly made and scripted internally optimize volumetric balance and ratios to be ideal when you follow the directions.







I started making subliminals in 1992.  I have a little bit of experience at this point.



It is common for people to presume that if their conscious mind cannot perceive the thing, then there is nothing that can be perceived period.  But the fact is, again, your conscious mind has a limited subset of perceptual awareness relative to what the sensory organ can sense, and what is sensed by the subconscious.  This has to do with your conscious mind being there in part to detect the lion, not necessary to pay attention to the incredibly quiet howls of wolves in the next valley over, who aren't a threat.  The conscious mind is very limited in what it can do compared to the subconscious, and how many things it can do at once.  So it is required to pick and choose what it pays attention to, and it does not need the wide range of sensory input that the subconscious has access to.



Furthermore, you're making a mistake that a lot of people make in conflating what hypnosis tracks need vs what subliminal tracks need.  Hypnosis tracks actually need to be clearly audible to the conscious mind to work best, although they don't need to be very loud.  But they need to be clearly audible to the conscious mind because hypnosis relies on the conscious mind to translate for the subconscious mind to understand what is being communicated.  The subconscious does not understand conversational speech at the conscious level in the same way that the conscious understands it, so that conversational speech, or hypnotic scripts, or NLP, require translation by the lower levels of the conscious mind.



Stating that the conscious should be able to hear but not understand actually makes the script subliminal, and this range works (sometimes) because it is the low conscious/high subconscious, where the two meet and overlap.



To be sure,most people producing mind programming have a limited understanding of what they're doing, and some of them don't understand enough to actually make something that works.  Placebo is real and it does happen.  But real subliminals, properly made subliminls, don't work based on placebo.



Here are some examples.



Placebo, according to my experiments, can produce pain relief up to and including the effects of taking 2-3 aspirin, and doesn't do much if anything against direct nerve pain.  My General Pain Relief program, which took more than a decade to develop to v1.0, can produce pain relief at around the range of morphine, and does work on direct nerve pain. I developed that in real world scenarios where people were experiencing real pain for real reasons.  In some cases, it took me more than 10 years to develop it to the degree that it would even begin to affect the kind of pain, or the source of pain, being dealt with.  24 different prototypes.  In the past prototype, which became Version 1.0, it can reduce by 3-4 points on a 1-10 point scale, direct nerve pain that is only affected otherwise by the likes of ketamine or injecting major painkillers directly into the fluid around the spinal chord.



It also stacks with chemical painkillers.  You cannot become addicted to it, you cannot get high on it, and you cannot overdose on it.  It is the only thing we have ever found that works for the stomach cramps my girlfriend gets whenever she eats beef.  It is the only thing  I have ever found that works on my cluster headaches.  This is not placebo.



There are a lot of programs I have created like this.  Aphrodisiacs we have done a lot of blind and double blind testing on, which all work well. Healing programs that surprise experienced doctors with how fast bones heal.  Damaged cartilage in the knees, which doctors said couldn't be healed, regenerating.  And these things happening during experiments where the subject knows they are part of an experiment (with consent), but does not know when the program is being played, or what it's supposed to be doing.  



If you don't want to believe me... do your own scientific testing.  I'm currently gearing up to do formal, double blind clinical trials on some of these programs.  But if you do your own scientific testing, please make sure to adhere to rigorous scientific standards and do the tests with no bias.  I can't tell you how many "scientific studies" I have read that ended up being useless regarding subliminals because upon closer examination, there was a bias for or against that may have (probably did) influenced the results.  That's why I stopped relying on someone else's experiments and started doing my own.



And if you do scientific testing on your own, avoid doing testing on subliminal titles that are fragile, like the ones that are trying to manifest things.  Those are hard to get to work even under the best conditions because they are so sensitive to disrupting forces from the user, never mind those around them, if there is any fear, skepticism, etc.  Choose a title that you can do serious measurements on.



Edit: Oh, and please be sure to test our latest technology level, 6th Gen if you try to do scientific testing on your own.

such an interesting and fascinating response @Shannon, sorry for not getting back to you earlier on this, got busy with life and forgot about my interest in subliminal programming. 



I have always known about the extraordinary powers and capabilities of the mind but never thought you’d be able to tap into it through an audio, your testomonials about pain control are truly inspiring and fascinating to me. I inquired a bit and saw and old thread of yours where you first developed “MIR”, Maximum Immune Response, I think. In that thread you also mentioned something about a “Morphine Drip” feature, did that program directly induce morphine into the body or is that a bit farfetched? You often mentioned morphine drip in that thread, not sure what you meant by that, could you elaborate? Back then it seems it was still very much under development and you shared how it made you tired and hungry and you were trying to figure out if it was because the energy sourcing, information density or because of the immune system getting rid of infections and healing the body. 

The "Morphine Drip" was not a literal morphine drip, the body has no way of creating morphine.  It was an ealy effort to incentivize a specific behavior.  It did not work as desired, and was discontinued.

Now your response made me even more curious and full of questions. Why can’t we just hit one suggestion or affirmation so deep in the subconscious and bypass resistance that it instantly gets accepted and executed? Why is repetition so much required, I read on the forum that the newer programs while much stronger and much more “information dense” can exhaust and make one tired much more than the previous version, or perhaps that is a misconception of me? Is it only when programs became more information dense that results came about faster, of course improved scripting and advancements in the scripts made an impact as well, I assume. 



Isn’t it because of the fancy tricks like speeding, layering and multiple voiced or whatever you mentioned that a program can first of all become more dense and powerful? So it is a double edged sword a little bit in that it can reduce the time necessary to see results and make a subliminal more powerful and effective but also completely make it ineffective and inert with the subconscious not understanding the message or am I completely missing the mark?

The consciousness of a human is not monolithic, neither is it just "conscious and subconscious".  Depth of subconscious interaction does not automatically equatet to "automatically accepts whatever is stated as true". 

Why repetition is necessary, and why high information density is chosen for my subliminals, are things you'll have to discover for yourself.  Information input density is useless unless certain other criteria are met beforehand.  But of course I am not going to just tell you all the subtle secrets it cost me years and sometimes decades of time, money and effort to tease out with experiments.  The subconscious must understand the script of the subliminal, but it gets much beyond that, and the whole approach is interdependent.  Repetition is useless without certain pre-requisites, as are most of what you refer to as the "fancy tricks".

I think there probably has to be a good balance between not overloading and overexposing is a thing but is underexposure also a thing, or consistent use of a suggestion will eventually deliver results?

The balance between under- and overexposure is what I am aiming to achieve in not just how I build these, but the usage patterns they have specified in the instructions.  But I don't use suggestions or affirnations.  Or afformations, for that matter.

I would love to do some placebo experimenting with your pain killer audio as you suggested, it sounds like a fun scientific experiment that is on the edge of pseudoscience among some circles but could possibily lead to a opening a completely new field of study! The curious of mind are usually those who discover what the skeptics will never look for!

You might want to wait for General Pain Relief v2 to come out then.  It should be out within a few months, and should be a significant amount more powerful, capable, faster acting and long lasting.

One more thing I have wondered is why would the subconscious suddenly do things when it receives a suggestion or affirmation subliminally and not when we or someone else consciously tells us to? Does the subconscious respond to first or third person, or is it all about bypassing the conscious mind and it is irrelevant whether it is spoken to as “you feeling extremely baddass and confident” or “I feel extremely baddass and confident”…

Because if someone tells you that your bodies immune system is increasing its power to deal with infections it can only work if you actually fully believe that person, and if you tell yourself only if you actually believe yourself. Maybe both approaches are good depending if we are more confident in ourselves or outside sources.

The conscious mind in some ways acts as a gateway and filter to the subconscious.  You can tell someone consciously, including yourself, that they feel extremely confident, but if the conscious mind is sufficiently involved, it will immediately seek to verify the claim before allowing it to pass, and if the current state of confidence does not match, the statement is rejected and ignored.  In hypnosis, the conscious mind is relaxed below the threshold for that behavior, while the most suggestive parts of the subconscious are (if it's done right) being accessed.  Subliminals bypass the conscious mind alltogether, but do not necessarily work with only the suggestive parts of the subconscious.

As for first or third person... that's again something I will decline to specify.  You will have to work that out for yourself.

I stated above that I do not use suggestions, affirmations or afformations, because belief is an unnecessary hurdle that only makes things more complicated and difficult than they need to be.  I do not need the subconscious to "believe" anything at all for MIR to work because I have approached the communication correctly.  As for confidence, trying to make the subconscious believe that it is confiodent to develop confidence is like relying on a group of 20 people to accomplish something when only 5 or 10% of them understand and agree to the goal.

Hypnosis is where the concept of "belief is required" comes from, but the basis for hypnosis almost completely fails when we are doing subliminal scripting.   It requires an entirely different approach.

[ncbeareatingman]

Shannon,
good afternoon. A Ball Park figure on C-PTSD v2 or what ever its to be called? As in 1200$ bucks or 1500 bucks + ? Too early to say?
I'm not in a rush I just wanna start saving early !!

[Shannon]

Shannon,
good afternoon. A Ball Park figure on C-PTSD v2 or what ever its to be called? As in 1200$ bucks or 1500 bucks + ? Too early to say?
I'm not in a rush I just wanna start saving early !!

I would like it to be between 2-3x the normal 6G price to purchase. But, I also want to consider keeping it affordable.  This is why I use the models.  They take the flaws of my personal limited perspective and desires out of the equation and show me what will work best for both sides.

So regardless of what I would like, it is going to depend on what the models say.  If they say $650, then $650 it is.  If they say $1,300, $1,950, $2,500, then that is what it is.  In any case, the subscription price will still be 6G standard ($74.97/month).

In other words.... I don't know yet.

[ncbeareatingman]

Shannon,
good afternoon. A Ball Park figure on C-PTSD v2 or what ever its to be called? As in 1200$ bucks or 1500 bucks + ? Too early to say?
I'm not in a rush I just wanna start saving early !!

I would like it to be between 2-3x the normal 6G price to purchase. But, I also want to consider keeping it affordable.  This is why I use the models.  They take the flaws of my personal limited perspective and desires out of the equation and show me what will work best for both sides.

So regardless of what I would like, it is going to depend on what the models say.  If they say $650, then $650 it is.  If they say $1,300, $1,950, $2,500, then that is what it is.  In any case, the subscription price will still be 6G standard ($74.97/month).

In other words.... I don't know yet.

 Got it, Appreciate that.

[4Kingdoms]

https://subliminal-talk.com/Thread-Shann...#pid271105

Working on AM7 Stage 0 today, and boy is there a lot going into this thing. I have identified some major flaws in how, in AM6, I approached onboarding the guys who represent the most feminized outliers who want to outgrow that state of being. This one stage has a lot of work to do.

The good news is, it's going to be relatively straightforward to design and develop this stage. The bad news is, it's going to have a complex script, such that turning the script text into subliminal audio is going to be a nightmare for me.

But! This is do-able, and I am really glad I figured out that an AM7 Stage 0 was necessary. This is going to make a huge difference for a lot of guys, whether they're outliers who need basic onboarding, or guys who have snags they're stuck on from long ago that have held them back in some way towards fully accepting and executing AM's script previously.

[Frosted]

If and when you find out, would you let us know if v2 would be an upgrade in effectiveness over v1 for people without CPTSD? If it's even a little more effective, I'm buying it. At this point even a 5% gain to me is worth 650$.

As it is being designed specifically for people who have complex PTSD, I am not planning to test it on people who do not have complex PTSD.  However, I'm confident that it's improvement over v1 will exceed 5% for even people who do not have complex PTSD.

Good enough for me! If it’s significantly more than 650$ I might have to abstain tho since I’ve got some expenses coming up. 

I might try subscription, but I’m hesitant cause I’ve heard reports of technical issues and I don’t want to mess around when it comes to my growth. Keeping my growth optimized using these Subliminals is my top priority right now.


The news on AM7 looks promising. I’m excited to try stage 0 when it comes out (if I’m not still focusing on healing). Actually, do you think I’d be better off sticking to healing before using AM7? 

I imagine I’d get great results regardless, but if taking the time to fully heal first will lead to significantly better results in the long run, I’m willing to wait. I’m already seeing some of what awaits me if I do finish healing…

[Shannon]

As it is being designed specifically for people who have complex PTSD, I am not planning to test it on people who do not have complex PTSD.  However, I'm confident that it's improvement over v1 will exceed 5% for even people who do not have complex PTSD.

Good enough for me! If it’s significantly more than 650$ I might have to abstain tho since I’ve got some expenses coming up. 



I might try subscription, but I’m hesitant cause I’ve heard reports of technical issues and I don’t want to mess around when it comes to my growth. Keeping my growth optimized using these Subliminals is my top priority right now.





The news on AM7 looks promising. I’m excited to try stage 0 when it comes out (if I’m not still focusing on healing). Actually, do you think I’d be better off sticking to healing before using AM7? 



I imagine I’d get great results regardless, but if taking the time to fully heal first will lead to significantly better results in the long run, I’m willing to wait. I’m already seeing some of what awaits me if I do finish healing…

We do get reports of technical issues regarding subscriptions, but they are very rare and we almost always are able to quickly resolve them.  

Stage 0 of AM7 is going to presume that you need to heal something emotionally, and work on that.  We cannot presume that people who come to us wanting to use Alpha Male 7 are going to have ever used our programs before, or even a subliminal at all.  So the program has to take care of everything that could need to be worked on.  You will not need to work on healing before running AM7 if you run Stage 0.  That is taken into account and baked in.

[Sky]

@Shannon I'm running LTUv6 for a full re-run. Would that ramp me up well for AM7? I would still run stage 0 and follow the instructions of course. I'm on stage 1.

[Frosted]

Good enough for me! If it’s significantly more than 650$ I might have to abstain tho since I’ve got some expenses coming up. 



I might try subscription, but I’m hesitant cause I’ve heard reports of technical issues and I don’t want to mess around when it comes to my growth. Keeping my growth optimized using these Subliminals is my top priority right now.





The news on AM7 looks promising. I’m excited to try stage 0 when it comes out (if I’m not still focusing on healing). Actually, do you think I’d be better off sticking to healing before using AM7? 



I imagine I’d get great results regardless, but if taking the time to fully heal first will lead to significantly better results in the long run, I’m willing to wait. I’m already seeing some of what awaits me if I do finish healing…

We do get reports of technical issues regarding subscriptions, but they are very rare and we almost always are able to quickly resolve them.  

Stage 0 of AM7 is going to presume that you need to heal something emotionally, and work on that.  We cannot presume that people who come to us wanting to use Alpha Male 7 are going to have ever used our programs before, or even a subliminal at all.  So the program has to take care of everything that could need to be worked on.  You will not need to work on healing before running AM7 if you run Stage 0.  That is taken into account and baked in.

Okay I might have to try subscription in the future then. 

Interesting... I have more questions but I suspect the majority of them will be answered once I read the sales page.

[Shannon]

@Shannon I'm running LTUv6 for a full re-run. Would that ramp me up well for AM7? I would still run stage 0 and follow the instructions of course. I'm on stage 1.

That certainly cannot hurt.  But the things that AM7 is going to be doing will not necessarily directly benefit from it either.

[Sky]

@Shannon I'm running LTUv6 for a full re-run. Would that ramp me up well for AM7? I would still run stage 0 and follow the instructions of course. I'm on stage 1.

That certainly cannot hurt.  But the things that AM7 is going to be doing will not necessarily directly benefit from it either.

I want to get off LTU then. I like this sub a lot, but I want AM7. I'll just stop running LTUv6 and wait for Stage 0 for AM7. Thanks, Shannon.

Do we get the AM7 discount with AM6 ownership? Can we buy it up front with the AM6 50% discount for all 8 stages and just get each stage as it comes out?

[Giacomonos]

Hi @Benjamin

It appears that I cannot purchase the subscription via PayPal (I live in Italy, if it helps), it kind of seems that the payment cannot be verified.
How can I proceed?