Shannon's Journal Discussion Thread, Vol.9

[Frosted]

@Shannon PTSDRA2 sounds exciting! Will people without CPTSD be able to run it and get good results?

[Have at ye]

PTRA v. 2 sounds awesome, I'm totally going to run it; some of the additions sound great (f. in. the sleep assistance. Only tonight, after quite some time on v. 1, did I get an undisturbed 8 hours of sleep, and even then had plenty of wonky dreams).

[NOMAD]

Shannon on the up coming  OFGS + EHAPRA + Plus Sub....#1) is that still on the docket of subliminal's to come forth, down the road?

Yes. PTSD Recovery Aid v2 is in script development.

#2 Can you say or give us any indication of what ELSE Might be included in that combo set of a Sub? A Very dynamic Sub, I might add.

PRA v2 is going to include everything in v1 plus a number of different things that will help with various things being reported by my CPTSD testers.  Including, but not limited to:

• A module to help you fall asleep at night.
  
• A module to help you stay asleep at night.
  
• A module to physically re-wire and adjust your nervous system to cause extinction of trauma related pathways, and the development of alternate pathways that will be positive instead.
  
• Brain Optimizer.
  
• A module to add a new approach to helping relax and calm the traumatized parts while healing and recovery work is being done.
  
• A module to react to flare ups of anxiety and fear with intense relaxation and calm.
  
• Aura of Love with targetting and intensity modulation and optimization.
  
• And more I have not finished researching and or developing yet.
  

#) Is it even a consideration still?

Absolutely.  PRA is very important, but CPTSD is very complex and challenging.  I'm working on feedback from my CPTSD testers and doing research into how to make this program as effective as possible.

To give you some feedback, PRA v1 is helping me to sleep like a rock. It's also very relaxing to me in general. I intend to provide a 1 month review in the next week or so to give additional feedback. I've been very impressed with v1 so far.

[NOMAD]

@Shannon PTSDRA2 sounds exciting! Will people without CPTSD be able to run it and get good results?

This is my concern. With PRA v1, I'm already experiencing some of the benefits that PRA v2 is slated to have. 

@Shannon

Would you be open to keeping "PRA v1" and releasing "PRA v2" as a separate title (i.e. PRA-CPTSD"... or something like that)?

I ask because "PRA v1" is something I'm considering running semi-regularly (maybe once a year) as a rest/recovery sub. I've only been running it for few weeks, but to me, it seems too valuable to retire. This might replace PM as my favorite sub to date, and that's saying a lot.

[4Kingdoms]

https://subliminal-talk.com/Thread-Shann...#pid271067

I have DMSI v5.2 sitting on my hard drive. This version does not have FRM or a shield. It is pure, raw DMSI. 

I have to do the QC checks, verification checks, calculate loop length, create the tracks for the correct loop length, tag it, upload it and then calculate the usage patterns. But it's alive.

If I cannot get all that done on January 23rd, I'm going to go back to working on AM7 and I will have to finish those steps in my spare time.

---

https://subliminal-talk.com/Thread-Shann...#pid271059

According to the models, the best choice of configurations for DMSI v5.2 is no FRM and no auric shield. So that is what is currently being rendered.

[Shannon]

@Shannon PTSDRA2 sounds exciting! Will people without CPTSD be able to run it and get good results?

PRA v2 is being designed specifically for those who have complex PTSD.  That does not excluse it from being used by those who do not have complex PTSD.

[Shannon]

PTRA v. 2 sounds awesome, I'm totally going to run it; some of the additions sound great (f. in. the sleep assistance. Only tonight, after quite some time on v. 1, did I get an undisturbed 8 hours of sleep, and even then had plenty of wonky dreams).

Some of my testers for CPTSD are reporting sleep difficulty, and some are reporting that v1 drops them like a rock.  It depends on the person, personality type, trauma specifics and various other variables.  For those who would benefit, I am adding that in for v2.

[Shannon]

Yes. PTSD Recovery Aid v2 is in script development.


PRA v2 is going to include everything in v1 plus a number of different things that will help with various things being reported by my CPTSD testers.  Including, but not limited to:

• A module to help you fall asleep at night.
  
• A module to help you stay asleep at night.
  
• A module to physically re-wire and adjust your nervous system to cause extinction of trauma related pathways, and the development of alternate pathways that will be positive instead.
  
• Brain Optimizer.
  
• A module to add a new approach to helping relax and calm the traumatized parts while healing and recovery work is being done.
  
• A module to react to flare ups of anxiety and fear with intense relaxation and calm.
  
• Aura of Love with targetting and intensity modulation and optimization.
  
• And more I have not finished researching and or developing yet.
  

Absolutely.  PRA is very important, but CPTSD is very complex and challenging.  I'm working on feedback from my CPTSD testers and doing research into how to make this program as effective as possible.

To give you some feedback, PRA v1 is helping me to sleep like a rock. It's also very relaxing to me in general. I intend to provide a 1 month review in the next week or so to give additional feedback. I've been very impressed with v1 so far.

Excellent.  Thank you.

[Shannon]

@Shannon PTSDRA2 sounds exciting! Will people without CPTSD be able to run it and get good results?

This is my concern. With PRA v1, I'm already experiencing some of the benefits that PRA v2 is slated to have. 

@Shannon

Would you be open to keeping "PRA v1" and releasing "PRA v2" as a separate title (i.e. PRA-CPTSD"... or something like that)?

I ask because "PRA v1" is something I'm considering running semi-regularly (maybe once a year) as a rest/recovery sub. I've only been running it for few weeks, but to me, it seems too valuable to retire. This might replace PM as my favorite sub to date, and that's saying a lot.

I am planning to keep PRA v1 and offer it more for people who have non-complex PTSD, or those who cannot afford v2.  Both are valuable, and both have their place.

[4Kingdoms]

https://subliminal-talk.com/Thread-Shann...#pid271088

I'm not going to be able to finish publishing DMSI v5.2 today.

So I was thinking about it, and I think it makes sense for me to focus on and publish AM7 Stage 0 for the time being, so you guys who need it can start working on that while I do the rest. Instead of trying to get all of it done at once.

DMSI v5.2  is mostly done. Needs files uploaded and usage patterns calculated. I'll be able to get to that soon enough by working on it in my spare time.

---

https://subliminal-talk.com/Thread-HOWL2...#pid271086

I'm not worried that you're hard to change. A lot of people here are hard to change, but we keep going.

It's just helpful to hear more because you represent a rather extreme outlier even among guys who need Alpha Male. Having been reading through the old script and such I became more aware of exactly what was going on in some cases.

So it helps me develop AM7 Stage 0 for helping guys like you.

[Frosted]

This is my concern. With PRA v1, I'm already experiencing some of the benefits that PRA v2 is slated to have. 

@Shannon

Would you be open to keeping "PRA v1" and releasing "PRA v2" as a separate title (i.e. PRA-CPTSD"... or something like that)?

I ask because "PRA v1" is something I'm considering running semi-regularly (maybe once a year) as a rest/recovery sub. I've only been running it for few weeks, but to me, it seems too valuable to retire. This might replace PM as my favorite sub to date, and that's saying a lot.

I am planning to keep PRA v1 and offer it more for people who have non-complex PTSD, or those who cannot afford v2.  Both are valuable, and both have their place.

If and when you find out, would you let us know if v2 would be an upgrade in effectiveness over v1 for people without CPTSD? If it's even a little more effective, I'm buying it. At this point even a 5% gain to me is worth 650$.

[Have at ye]

I am planning to keep PRA v1 and offer it more for people who have non-complex PTSD, or those who cannot afford v2.  Both are valuable, and both have their place.

If and when you find out, would you let us know if v2 would be an upgrade in effectiveness over v1 for people without CPTSD? If it's even a little more effective, I'm buying it. At this point even a 5% gain to me is worth 650$.

Going by the slanted additions, it's going to blow v. 1 out of the water.

It might actually be kinda overkill for people without complex trauma to work through, actually. But me, personally, I'm a firm believer in overkill. 

But that being said, it sounds like it's going to be good for pretty much anyone. But a higher price tag would go to show it's a serious program for people who are serious about getting better (but hopefully it won't cross the price-threshold of, say, 1.200 USD, as more than that may be difficult to come-by for people with actual CPTSD and related psychic illnesses, as holding down regular employment tends to be an issue while you're healing).

[callie]

If and when you find out, would you let us know if v2 would be an upgrade in effectiveness over v1 for people without CPTSD? If it's even a little more effective, I'm buying it. At this point even a 5% gain to me is worth 650$.

Going by the slanted additions, it's going to blow v. 1 out of the water.

It might actually be kinda overkill for people without complex trauma to work through, actually. But me, personally, I'm a firm believer in overkill. 

But that being said, it sounds like it's going to be good for pretty much anyone. But a higher price tag would go to show it's a serious program for people who are serious about getting better (but hopefully it won't cross the price-threshold of, say, 1.200 USD, as more than that may be difficult to come-by for people with actual CPTSD and related psychic illnesses, as holding down regular employment tends to be an issue while you're healing).

@Shannon

I understand the reasoning behind increasing the price for PRAv2 given the added complexity and work involved, and I respect that. I just wanted to raise a practical point, many people with CPTSD struggle with consistent functioning and stable income, sometimes for long periods of time, so accessibility matters a lot when it comes to trauma recovery resources. A large price jump could unintentionally limit access for the people who need this most

[Michelangelo]

P

Hello @Shannon can you please explain how our subconscious mind can even make sense of or understand the subliminal suggestions and how they are even effective considering the following…



I still have quite the mental hang-up about it because there is simply a lack of understanding on my end.



So first of all, most of the self-development self-hypnosis audios when you play them you can actually slightly hear the voices but not enough to understand what they are saying so that they can slip past our conscious judgment and interference and alter our thought patterns.



With your audios I do not hear anything at all, so then how can the subconscious even make sense of any hidden messages in there and how do we know it is not just placebo? 

A worthy question that many have when coming to subliminals for the first time. I will endeavor to explain it in a different way than I have in the past.

Imagine that your ears are a microphone, and the signal from the microphone ranges from -10 of whatever unit to +10.  Below -10 and no signal is generated; above +10, you suffer damage to the ears that prevents you from hearing.

Now imagine that you have two people monitoring the signal.  One has a gauge that only moves when the signal registers -8 to+10.  The other has a gauge that registers the full -10 to +10.

The person who has the gauge that registers -8 to +10 will tell you there is no sound when their gauge does not move; but the person whose gauge registers -9 - which is what the sound level actually is - sees this, notes it, and responds.

In this analogy, the conscious awareness - what "wakes up in the morning" - is the one with the gauge that registers -8 to +10, and the subconscious has the gauge that registers -10 to +10.  

Subliminals work by presenting a sound that is within this small range where the conscious either cannot differentiate, cannot sense or cannot  decipher the incoming signal, but the subconscious can.  

You can know it's not placebo by observing what happens when you don't know the program is playing.  If it still has the desired effects, then it's not placebo.  That is the easiest way to know for sure, but of course that's not easily done by yourself, or in a short period of time.

Generally speaking, it has been my observation that placebo strongly tends to fade out in a week or two.  After that, results in most cases must be the program.  There are cases where the placebo can become self sustaining, but most people, at least 80%, don't experience that because that seems to come from a fear based need for the program to work, rather than just a belief that it will.

You're welcome to test my programs under scientific conditions to verify that their effects are not placebo.  But aside from that, the only thing I can suggest is... if it works, and it works for more than a couple weeks... not placebo.  You can also read the article I wrote about what placebo is in the articles section of the forum.

Second, if such silent noises and sounds can indeed affect us then how far does it truly go, can conversations in the house next doors which you have absolutely zero conscious awareness about also affect us, because the subconscious might process and render them? What about the conversations in the background of a shopping mall?

The "silent subliminals" really are not silent.  They're what is known as "umbra ultrasonic", meaning they are pitch differenced to be past what your conscious mind can discern, but still discernible to the subconscious mind.  They're actually the same volume as the masking tracks the masked subliminals use.

I have some training as an audio engineer, and it drives me crazy because I can hear and discern things that nobody else can hear or pick out of the sounds around us.  I can hear people playing videos on their cell phones in public that my girlfriend cannot for example.  I can hear my neighbors a block and more away playing bass music when she hears nothing.  Your subconscious is significantly more sensitive to the world around you, through all of your senses, than your conscious mind can - or in some cases, is willing to - be.  Far beyond what I have been trained to detect and discern.  As far as I can tell, your subconscious can detect and respond to sounds as quiet as about -80 dB.

Lastly, if this is the case then what causes subliminal programs to be more effective then having someone whisper a script in the room next us with the intention of subliminally affecting us? 

First, proper scripting.  Nothing else matters as much as proper scripting.  If the script is not done properly, you may have a variety of responses that do not match the desired outcome, and they can range from no response at all, to reversed results, to unexpected responses.  

Second, the way the script is subliminalized matters a lot. If you try to do the fancy tricks (speeding up the audio, lots of different voices at once, etc.), they can help but too much will overdo it and destroy the effect or render it impossible for your subconscious to decipher and comprehend. 

Third, the amount of input required to achieve the effect is determined by the script as well as the amount of input per unit of time.  If the script is poorly done, or does not use the special compression techniques advanced subliminals use, then you may need 30 days of use just to start seeing the first results, as the first generation subliminals did.  

Fourth,. whispering in an adjacent room will be too quiet, even for the subconscious.

And fifth, subliminals that are properly made and scripted internally optimize volumetric balance and ratios to be ideal when you follow the directions.

I would like to understand to what grade and degree the subconscious mind can process and render subliminal information because I assume if the voiced script is too silent then it will never be effective? The pioneering producers of self-hypnosis audios have always said that the voice needs to be silent but hearable. And this is where subliminal producers jump in a completely different realm of possibilities which to them is nothing more than placebo.

What are your thoughts on this? I think I read somewhere you have 20 or 25 years of experience with subliminal programs which is quite a long time to figure all of these things out!

I started making subliminals in 1992.  I have a little bit of experience at this point.

It is common for people to presume that if their conscious mind cannot perceive the thing, then there is nothing that can be perceived period.  But the fact is, again, your conscious mind has a limited subset of perceptual awareness relative to what the sensory organ can sense, and what is sensed by the subconscious.  This has to do with your conscious mind being there in part to detect the lion, not necessary to pay attention to the incredibly quiet howls of wolves in the next valley over, who aren't a threat.  The conscious mind is very limited in what it can do compared to the subconscious, and how many things it can do at once.  So it is required to pick and choose what it pays attention to, and it does not need the wide range of sensory input that the subconscious has access to.

Furthermore, you're making a mistake that a lot of people make in conflating what hypnosis tracks need vs what subliminal tracks need.  Hypnosis tracks actually need to be clearly audible to the conscious mind to work best, although they don't need to be very loud.  But they need to be clearly audible to the conscious mind because hypnosis relies on the conscious mind to translate for the subconscious mind to understand what is being communicated.  The subconscious does not understand conversational speech at the conscious level in the same way that the conscious understands it, so that conversational speech, or hypnotic scripts, or NLP, require translation by the lower levels of the conscious mind.

Stating that the conscious should be able to hear but not understand actually makes the script subliminal, and this range works (sometimes) because it is the low conscious/high subconscious, where the two meet and overlap.

To be sure,most people producing mind programming have a limited understanding of what they're doing, and some of them don't understand enough to actually make something that works.  Placebo is real and it does happen.  But real subliminals, properly made subliminls, don't work based on placebo.

Here are some examples.

Placebo, according to my experiments, can produce pain relief up to and including the effects of taking 2-3 aspirin, and doesn't do much if anything against direct nerve pain.  My General Pain Relief program, which took more than a decade to develop to v1.0, can produce pain relief at around the range of morphine, and does work on direct nerve pain. I developed that in real world scenarios where people were experiencing real pain for real reasons.  In some cases, it took me more than 10 years to develop it to the degree that it would even begin to affect the kind of pain, or the source of pain, being dealt with.  24 different prototypes.  In the past prototype, which became Version 1.0, it can reduce by 3-4 points on a 1-10 point scale, direct nerve pain that is only affected otherwise by the likes of ketamine or injecting major painkillers directly into the fluid around the spinal chord.

It also stacks with chemical painkillers.  You cannot become addicted to it, you cannot get high on it, and you cannot overdose on it.  It is the only thing we have ever found that works for the stomach cramps my girlfriend gets whenever she eats beef.  It is the only thing  I have ever found that works on my cluster headaches.  This is not placebo.

There are a lot of programs I have created like this.  Aphrodisiacs we have done a lot of blind and double blind testing on, which all work well. Healing programs that surprise experienced doctors with how fast bones heal.  Damaged cartilage in the knees, which doctors said couldn't be healed, regenerating.  And these things happening during experiments where the subject knows they are part of an experiment (with consent), but does not know when the program is being played, or what it's supposed to be doing.  

If you don't want to believe me... do your own scientific testing.  I'm currently gearing up to do formal, double blind clinical trials on some of these programs.  But if you do your own scientific testing, please make sure to adhere to rigorous scientific standards and do the tests with no bias.  I can't tell you how many "scientific studies" I have read that ended up being useless regarding subliminals because upon closer examination, there was a bias for or against that may have (probably did) influenced the results.  That's why I stopped relying on someone else's experiments and started doing my own.

And if you do scientific testing on your own, avoid doing testing on subliminal titles that are fragile, like the ones that are trying to manifest things.  Those are hard to get to work even under the best conditions because they are so sensitive to disrupting forces from the user, never mind those around them, if there is any fear, skepticism, etc.  Choose a title that you can do serious measurements on.

Edit: Oh, and please be sure to test our latest technology level, 6th Gen if you try to do scientific testing on your own.

such an interesting and fascinating response @Shannon, sorry for not getting back to you earlier on this, got busy with life and forgot about my interest in subliminal programming. 

I have always known about the extraordinary powers and capabilities of the mind but never thought you’d be able to tap into it through an audio, your testomonials about pain control are truly inspiring and fascinating to me. I inquired a bit and saw and old thread of yours where you first developed “MIR”, Maximum Immune Response, I think. In that thread you also mentioned something about a “Morphine Drip” feature, did that program directly induce morphine into the body or is that a bit farfetched? You often mentioned morphine drip in that thread, not sure what you meant by that, could you elaborate? Back then it seems it was still very much under development and you shared how it made you tired and hungry and you were trying to figure out if it was because the energy sourcing, information density or because of the immune system getting rid of infections and healing the body. 

Now your response made me even more curious and full of questions. Why can’t we just hit one suggestion or affirmation so deep in the subconscious and bypass resistance that it instantly gets accepted and executed? Why is repetition so much required, I read on the forum that the newer programs while much stronger and much more “information dense” can exhaust and make one tired much more than the previous version, or perhaps that is a misconception of me? Is it only when programs became more information dense that results came about faster, of course improved scripting and advancements in the scripts made an impact as well, I assume. 

Isn’t it because of the fancy tricks like speeding, layering and multiple voiced or whatever you mentioned that a program can first of all become more dense and powerful? So it is a double edged sword a little bit in that it can reduce the time necessary to see results and make a subliminal more powerful and effective but also completely make it ineffective and inert with the subconscious not understanding the message or am I completely missing the mark? 

I think there probably has to be a good balance between not overloading and overexposing is a thing but is underexposure also a thing, or consistent use of a suggestion will eventually deliver results?

I would love to do some placebo experimenting with your pain killer audio as you suggested, it sounds like a fun scientific experiment that is on the edge of pseudoscience among some circles but could possibily lead to a opening a completely new field of study! The curious of mind are usually those who discover what the skeptics will never look for!

One more thing I have wondered is why would the subconscious suddenly do things when it receives a suggestion or affirmation subliminally and not when we or someone else consciously tells us to? Does the subconscious respond to first or third person, or is it all about bypassing the conscious mind and it is irrelevant whether it is spoken to as “you feeling extremely baddass and confident” or “I feel extremely baddass and confident”…

Because if someone tells you that your bodies immune system is increasing its power to deal with infections it can only work if you actually fully believe that person, and if you tell yourself only if you actually believe yourself. Maybe both approaches are good depending if we are more confident in ourselves or outside sources.