Shannon's Journal Discussion Thread, Vol. 8

[ffaux]

So you're saying that calling men bitches who can't handle, or opt out of AM7, is important to you Ben and Shannon? Johannesbrst perceives "bitch" as a gendered insult, and perceives its use to be misogynistic, and instead of clarifying, Ben commits 100% to ad hominem, and Shannon avoids his point all together.

Shannon's post on AM7 reeks of toxic masculinity, but I perceive that to be a marketing schtick to appeal to the target audience (who, quite frankly, would benefit from a healthy dose of real masculinity). As someone who has done AM6 more than I can remember, I have to confess that I'm a little disappointed in the way that both of you are dealing with Johannesbrst's who is entirely valid in his concern.

Stand by "bitch" if you want to, but it is gendered, and it is derogatory, and there's nothing inherently masculine about gendered insults, so defending its use is pointless at best, and alienating at worst, as is the case with Johannesbrst.

[Benjamin]

So you're saying that calling men bitches who can't handle, or opt out of AM7, is important to you Ben and Shannon? Johannesbrst perceives "bitch" as a gendered insult, and perceives its use to be misogynistic, and instead of clarifying, Ben commits 100% to ad hominem, and Shannon avoids his point all together.

Shannon's post on AM7 reeks of toxic masculinity, but I perceive that to be a marketing schtick to appeal to the target audience (who, quite frankly, would benefit from a healthy dose of real masculinity). As someone who has done AM6 more than I can remember, I have to confess that I'm a little disappointed in the way that both of you are dealing with Johannesbrst's who is entirely valid in his concern.

Stand by "bitch" if you want to, but it is gendered, and it is derogatory, and there's nothing inherently masculine about gendered insults, so defending its use is pointless at best, and alienating at worst, as is the case with Johannesbrst.

Seriously? It's YOUR issue if you think it's misogonistic and you're creating that out of nowhere exactly like he is. Sounds like AM is not for you either if you're running around calling someone who is talking strongly and directly 'toxic masculine'.

It's funny how common it is that anyone now trying to 'ad hominem' argument is just doing it blindly to the point it means nothing now, and pretending that there's some problem with being direct, all the while turning around and doing the same thing with your nonsense framing of 'toxic masculinity'. Everything I said about these kinds of mindsets is 100% true.

If you're been that brainwashed with this nonsense, no wonder you had issues with AM.. because you're going exactly in the other direction. I'm disappointed for you to bring this nonsense in where it does not apply. You're also using the classic manipulation of pretending to be disappointed to attempt to 'cancel' something that offends you just like the crowd we should be pushing back against. Save your fake disappointment.

Thankyou for perfectly representing the massive amount of brainwashing and nonsense that is needed to be pushed back against in a program that helps with REAL masculinity, not emasculated nonsense running around yelling 'toxic masculinity' or 'gendered insults'.

I'm talking about this whole mindset and how sadly society has gone way too far into this end that you seriously think you're standing for something while standing for your own emasculation. When men are constantly dealing with much, much more derogorory, disrespectful and rude stuff than women ever deal with. Shannon clearly made the point that women were NOT mentioned, and you pretend he didn't even address the point.. which Johannesbrst completely fabricated in the first place since it did not mention women, and now that you are doing.

Shannon's point both times, aswell as his reply to it was spot on. Yet you're attempting to manipulate it as not being so because your delicate sensibilities have been offended.

If this is the case already at a simple post, and if Shannon manages to achieve his intent and vision for AM7 then it's going to be a masterpiece that eats through all of this nonsense and emasculation, and I will celebrate it doing so.

You're welcome to bow down and submit to everyone trying to destroy men and cry about other men who will not do so.. but you'd be better catered for some of the other creators around this other area who offer 'divine masculinity' 'balancing your masculine and feminine' 'worshipping the goddess' and other weak shit.

You are fabricating things and pretending AM7 is going to be some kind of Andrew Tate guy running around calling women 'bitches' and other craziness, when it completely is not in any way whatsoever. But you guys seem so far gone that any mention of actual masculinity sends you down that pathway. I guarantee if the word 'bitch' was not there, you would find the next thing to cry about and accuse us of the same nonsense.

THIS is why Shannon's post in his journal was complete gold... it's already bringing out 'men' who are not in alignment with actual masculinity trying to bring it down and weaken it, and destroy it, water it down, make it weak and emasculated because of their own brainwashing and issues. I look forward to AM7 obliterating that nonsense in myself and other men who choose to take it on. Because i'm not immune from the brainwashing, but I can also quite clearly see through it.

I know with certainty there are massive amounts of other men who are sick of this and completely agree with me, most of who are scared to speak up unlike me. Men on your side happily speak up pretending to be brave yet you are not because you're just telling us what society has brainwashed everyone with and aren't really standing for anything.

So I encourage men who DO side with real masculinity and are sick of all of that to speak up because there's many more of us that do.

[Darkness]

Bitch is primarily synonymous with a cowardly weak runt of male devoid of respectability.


There was no reference tying women to that title.

At all.

[Frosted]

From what I saw I thought @Johannesbrst was just misinterpreting the connotation of the word bitch since he’s non-native English speaker (if I remember correctly). My read on him is that he’s a thoughtful guy. I thought he was just making sure that the impression he was getting from Shannon’s take on AM7 was congruent to the kind of person he would want to become. It didn’t seem to me like he was being pushy or manipulative regardless of what his true intentions were.

@ffaux I think Shannon’s post about AM7 and his reply to johannesbrst were both fine.

[thectexperience1]

Bitch is primarily synonymous with a cowardly weak runt of male devoid of respectability.


There was no reference tying women to that title.

At all.

Indeed. And language has history. An alpha dog will stand up to an opponents that far outmatch it; bitches are more likely to run from the challenge.

Of course "bitch" can be used negatively. So can so many other words. The push to ban words is the part that's really got on people's nerves over the past 10 years.

[callie]

Johannes gave respectful feedback and he wasn’t disrespectful at all, so there’s no need to be rude about it. Instead of clarifying or engaging, the responses have mostly been anger and dismissiveness. That doesn’t disprove his concern, it just proves it..

Aside from that, I personally dont really get what AM7 is supposed to do that something like OGSF and EPHRA cannot. I get that AM is about building men into "alphas". But in my view you build men up, or anyone really, by healing trauma (which everyone have to some degree) and the maladaptive adaptations born from it. If that isn’t addressed then what looks like strength often just ends up being compensation. This constant framing around fighting and opposition just looks like anger without a healthy outlet. It makes strength seem like it always needs an enemy, external or internal, to push against. But that doesn’t unify you, it divides you. Most of the time you just alienate others or you deepen shame and anger within yourself. I’ve lived that way most of my life and it's exhasusting and doesn’t work. It might cater to misplaced anger and appear powerful and "alpha" on the surface, which is why so many fall into it, but it isn’t sustainable and in the end it leads to more suffering, the very thing we’re all trying to free ourselves from

Real strength doesn’t come from defiance or opposition imo. It comes from being so aligned with yourself that you don’t need an opponent to validate it. That’s why the concept of being "alpha" feels less like growth and more like sidestepping real healing to me, reframing inner work as something to conquer rather than something to integrate. At least from Shannon’s latest post in his journal it sounded that way. Personally "ascendant alpha" just sounds to me like a fancy label for what it would mean to be free of internal limitations and maladaptive patterns. But you don’t get there by conquering or suppressing parts of yourself (or others). Perhaps I am misinterpreting the philosophy behind this sub, but I would be genuinenly curious what it can offer in terms of "setting you free" that OGSF and EPHRA supposedly cannot?

[GreekGod22]

@callie I partially disagree.
OGSF and EPHRA is about healing and undoing negative programming. And it is applicable to both sexes. It is about getting you from negative to “zero”, to a neutral state.
By zero, I mean the state in which no negative self beliefs exist, no traumas are present, and no major fears or blockers exist that prevent you to fully expressing yourself. Think of it like “enlightened Buddhist monk” state. They have reached a zen, neutral like state, but you wouldn’t consider them as alphas.

But just by reaching a zero/ neutral state, you don’t achieve alpha or masculine energy or whatever you would call it.
Masculinity should be polarising, it should not be a neutral state/ energy. It should be about conquering, about bending reality to your will.
It is true that some men have that alpha/ masculine energy naturally. But for the others? That’s where AM has it’s place.