Shannon's DMSI V2.2 Journal

[Steven]

@DarkXedonias

I think that emotionality idea is quite valid!

[Greenduck]

I believe that the most important part of a girl in the end having sex with you is that she has to trust you. Sure you can create attraction and have fun, but if she won't trust you, you will have a harder time for her feeling safe to join to back home or wherever you are going.

She need to feel safe that you won't talk about her behind her back, that you won't be mean to her (not in a joking kind of way, but really being a bad guy). She don't have to believe that you are the price that will save her and fulfill all her desires, but she need to have some basic sense of trust. If that is there, like a girlfriend would trust you, well then escalation wouldn't be a problem, would it?

Trust is key in most areas I believe, and that is probably why self confident guys are desired, however those with real confidence is quiet rare. I know a couple but what I see much is superficial confidence, which appeal to women in the way that "this guy is probably sought after by many others and looked up to" and then take a "shortcut" to her affection.

This work, however it is a shaky road to travel for us guys, because then you have:
1) Based your attraction on something that is based on externalities, rather than more "core" factors such as real confidence, or a warm personality (which is also trustworthy but in another way)
2) Risked attracting a girl/women/female/whatever label you use which is attracted to "status" and to stuff that is seen as special by others, rather than genuine factors. The risk with this is that the girl might be basing her well being on you, and therefore you are not only setting up something on shaky grounds, but you are also helping her reinforce this behavior and thus damaging her belief system even more. And when you loose your status (which you will do at some point) she will need to find another source of her self-worth, and you will feel like shit because you have started to base your self-worth on her, and you lost your status and you are then, more or less, fucked and have to start over building your self esteem on internal factors.

This belong in my journal and not here. Excuse me gentlemen.

[Steven]

@Greenduck,

I think trust is another good thing. The trust and the emotionality all involve processes too.

[Gotcha]

Why does it seem that many modern men around the globe are not very successful at reading the sexual cues of the modern woman?

Has there been a disconnect sometime in our recent past? Looking at males of other species, they don't seem to be having the same problems with their reproductive language. Or maybe they do? I don't claim to know, this is just a thought...

Assuming that modern man has "lost" (or perhaps replaced/overwritten) the raw ability to consciously read such signals, with all the false information of today imprinted; could that "old" data not still be stored somewhere in the subconscious archives?

I'm guessing that there already in 2.x is phrasing towards OE coaxing the subconscious to gather information on how to read body language, feeding said information to the conscious mind, attempting to make the user act upon it. What if it isn't clear to the subconscious what code key to use in decoding the body language of a sexually attracted female? If the "new" key is slightly corrupted, maybe it's possible to reset to the "old" backup and have better result? Or would it be possible to have the subconscious do a "search" through the users (if applicable) "hookup archives" and and find similarities in the body languages of the females the user had positive outcomes with?

Not a claim, just some thoughts or if you will, an idea.

[Catman]

Why does it seem that many modern men around the globe are not very successful at reading the sexual cues of the modern woman?

Has there been a disconnect sometime in our recent past? Looking at males of other species, they don't seem to be having the same problems with their reproductive language. Or maybe they do? I don't claim to know, this is just a thought...

Assuming that modern man has "lost" (or perhaps replaced/overwritten) the raw ability to consciously read such signals, with all the false information of today imprinted; could that "old" data not still be stored somewhere in the subconscious archives?

I'm guessing that there already in 2.x is phrasing towards OE coaxing the subconscious to gather information on how to read body language, feeding said information to the conscious mind, attempting to make the user act upon it. What if it isn't clear to the subconscious what code key to use in decoding the body language of a sexually attracted female? If the "new" key is slightly corrupted, maybe it's possible to reset to the "old" backup and have better result? Or would it be possible to have the subconscious do a "search" through the users (if applicable) "hookup archives" and and find similarities in the body languages of the females the user had positive outcomes with?

Not a claim, just some thoughts or if you will, an idea.

Probably a combination of chronic long term rejection, fear of more of it, a resulting belief that you aren't attractive and it's impossible due to the rejections and won't get the women you want. A large overvaluing of women, a large undervaluing of men further complicates this. And decades of rampant feminazism demonising and shaming any kind of male sexual interest making us endlessly self-censor and feel boxed in while watching "alpha douchebags" do the opposite of what is a "real man" according to feminists, and get massive results with women. Quite a noxious soup there. I think you shut down all those instincts about women and stop trying to interpret possible subtle signs of attraction in a positive light and just discount them because they don't match the long term, and far more charged, past failures. After awhile you just think it will never happen and you'll never have success with women. Never knowing WHY exactly this is happening.

All of my friends, have settled down with very unattractive girls, for the same reason. They gave up and out of desperation they went for "a girl that I will always be much more attractive than so I have the power finally and she won't cheat on me and leave me". Nice mind set there, huh? I'm the last one left, the last one unmarried or in a relationship of any sort. But I refuse to surrender like that to a woman I KNOW should be below me in real normally functioning SMV, after what I've accomplished. So I'm single and always have been. My only other theory is the gold digger thing may need reframing, but they are so obvious to detect I can't help but think many times it's right on the money (aha, pun!) so this one is tougher to figure out. Maybe I'm so used to it now, and due to the long term rejections and beliefs about girls being impossible to get BEFORE I became successful, I equate girls "showing interest" as a gold digger or I outright think it isn't possible for her to actually like me and I must be wishful thinking or something from her must be misinterpreted, and shut it down.

I don't know if it's an issue of Goal #2 needing to be far more potent, or if it's a case of needing to see real life results in order to realise change is possible with women and can happen. I'm not sure which, or if it's both. I'm currently of the opinion that talk is cheap and "IOIs" can be easily misinterpreted because you want to see progress. And that real life results are all that matters, and I feel real life results can't be argued against, even with a negative past.

[RTBoss]

I think your success in the area of business is an extension of who you are. Think of your success as a representation of one of the best aspects of YOU. What you have achieved, and aspire to, is very much a part of who you are, and you'll actually need a woman who appreciates it - so try not to push them all away and get to know them. There's nothing wrong with a woman with strong self-preservation instincts.

A true "gold-digger," will treat you like complete shit 24/7 unless you're buying them their next present or if every meal isn't at a 5-star restaurant. Make sure it's the difference between a woman with high-value that knows what she wants out of life and someone who's out to just take advantage.

[chaosvrgn]

Probably a combination of chronic long term rejection, fear of more of it, a resulting belief that you aren't attractive and it's impossible due to the rejections and won't get the women you want. A large overvaluing of women, a large undervaluing of men further complicates this. And decades of rampant feminazism demonising and shaming any kind of male sexual interest making us endlessly self-censor and feel boxed in while watching "alpha douchebags" do the opposite of what is a "real man" according to feminists, and get massive results with women. Quite a noxious soup there. I think you shut down all those instincts about women and stop trying to interpret possible subtle signs of attraction in a positive light and just discount them because they don't match the long term, and far more charged, past failures. After awhile you just think it will never happen and you'll never have success with women. Never knowing WHY exactly this is happening.

All of my friends, have settled down with very unattractive girls, for the same reason. They gave up and out of desperation they went for "a girl that I will always be much more attractive than so I have the power finally and she won't cheat on me and leave me". Nice mind set there, huh? I'm the last one left, the last one unmarried or in a relationship of any sort. But I refuse to surrender like that to a woman I KNOW should be below me in real normally functioning SMV, after what I've accomplished. So I'm single and always have been. My only other theory is the gold digger thing may need reframing, but they are so obvious to detect I can't help but think many times it's right on the money (aha, pun!) so this one is tougher to figure out. Maybe I'm so used to it now, and due to the long term rejections and beliefs about girls being impossible to get BEFORE I became successful, I equate girls "showing interest" as a gold digger or I outright think it isn't possible for her to actually like me and I must be wishful thinking or something from her must be misinterpreted, and shut it down.

I don't know if it's an issue of Goal #2 needing to be far more potent, or if it's a case of needing to see real life results in order to realise change is possible with women and can happen. I'm not sure which, or if it's both. I'm currently of the opinion that talk is cheap and "IOIs" can be easily misinterpreted because you want to see progress. And that real life results are all that matters, and I feel real life results can't be argued against, even with a negative past.

I agree with all of this, EXCEPT the IOI hatred. Yes, they can be misinterpreted, but reading body language is an art form like any other. It's not even that hard to become at it. You learn the basic theory, watch for patterns and watch how people's body language changes based on what you're saying or doing. Then, start trying to change their state. Eventually, you'll get good at it.

My DMSI successes are possible through reading body language. These IOIs that you're trying to negate as worthless? No -- it is the KEY indicator that informs me when to escalate.

Her outer body language is DIRECTLY tied to her inner state.

You're saying you're being rational and logical, saying "I need proof to believe this," but then you're casting aside the evidence being presented to you without investigating it. In my opinion, that's not true skepticism. A true skeptic withholds judgment until he or she has investigated all outcomes. You're not investigating body language and IOIs. You're just saying, "pfft, can't be real." You won't get to "real life" results without investigating body language.

[JJ54]

I think us men, we forget that the world's oldest language is body language. Before there was any such thing as reading, writing, and pronunciation, humans have always communicated through body language. Because we men tend to think logical a lot, we can easily ignore what a person is saying to us through body language. It takes practice to learn how to detect ioi's and communicate it back. But it's not hard to do. In fact, since I've been studying more how to read body language, it's been easy for me to see who's interested and who isn't.

[Catman]

Probably a combination of chronic long term rejection, fear of more of it, a resulting belief that you aren't attractive and it's impossible due to the rejections and won't get the women you want. A large overvaluing of women, a large undervaluing of men further complicates this. And decades of rampant feminazism demonising and shaming any kind of male sexual interest making us endlessly self-censor and feel boxed in while watching "alpha douchebags" do the opposite of what is a "real man" according to feminists, and get massive results with women. Quite a noxious soup there. I think you shut down all those instincts about women and stop trying to interpret possible subtle signs of attraction in a positive light and just discount them because they don't match the long term, and far more charged, past failures. After awhile you just think it will never happen and you'll never have success with women. Never knowing WHY exactly this is happening.

All of my friends, have settled down with very unattractive girls, for the same reason. They gave up and out of desperation they went for "a girl that I will always be much more attractive than so I have the power finally and she won't cheat on me and leave me". Nice mind set there, huh? I'm the last one left, the last one unmarried or in a relationship of any sort. But I refuse to surrender like that to a woman I KNOW should be below me in real normally functioning SMV, after what I've accomplished. So I'm single and always have been. My only other theory is the gold digger thing may need reframing, but they are so obvious to detect I can't help but think many times it's right on the money (aha, pun!) so this one is tougher to figure out. Maybe I'm so used to it now, and due to the long term rejections and beliefs about girls being impossible to get BEFORE I became successful, I equate girls "showing interest" as a gold digger or I outright think it isn't possible for her to actually like me and I must be wishful thinking or something from her must be misinterpreted, and shut it down.

I don't know if it's an issue of Goal #2 needing to be far more potent, or if it's a case of needing to see real life results in order to realise change is possible with women and can happen. I'm not sure which, or if it's both. I'm currently of the opinion that talk is cheap and "IOIs" can be easily misinterpreted because you want to see progress. And that real life results are all that matters, and I feel real life results can't be argued against, even with a negative past.

I agree with all of this, EXCEPT the IOI hatred. Yes, they can be misinterpreted, but reading body language is an art form like any other. It's not even that hard to become at it. You learn the basic theory, watch for patterns and watch how people's body language changes based on what you're saying or doing. Then, start trying to change their state. Eventually, you'll get good at it.

My DMSI successes are possible through reading body language. These IOIs that you're trying to negate as worthless? No -- it is the KEY indicator that informs me when to escalate.

Her outer body language is DIRECTLY tied to her inner state.

You're saying you're being rational and logical, saying "I need proof to believe this," but then you're casting aside the evidence being presented to you without investigating it. In my opinion, that's not true skepticism. A true skeptic withholds judgment until he or she has investigated all outcomes. You're not investigating body language and IOIs. You're just saying, "pfft, can't be real." You won't get to "real life" results without investigating body language.

Oh, I don't have "IOI hatred", I just have doubts due to long term issues I've described, so these IOIs are questioned and doubted. That's it, it's not some "IOI hatred". I know those are the first signs, I've seen how girls look at guys they think or say are hot, and without them nothing can happen, but that doesn't stop the questioning of them happening to me due to issues. I don't think women have acted that same way to me, they seem to be far more obvious to other guys. But maybe that always is the case because you can be outside the situation and have a better viewpoint or something. I'm pretty sure I've never had that level of obviousness, I would remember it and it would help me see it's possible.

You pick up on the signals and go with them because you've HAD success with women, so there's confirmation there that the signals are correct and that you can be successful with women etc. I haven't had that, so there's doubt and questioning of these signals from women each time. It's kinda like a train I guess, once it has that momentum going, it's in a groove. Starting it is difficult. That's why I said I feel for situations like this, blunt, massive real world success is most effective at snapping you out of this spiral, anything less is vulnerable to being discounted. And just getting IOIs and using that as confirmation a sexual program is working, is faulty I feel. IOIs can be either misinterpreted because you want to believe it's working, or because there is an issue with you believing it's possible to get them to begin with. It goes both ways to be fair. I just don't want to get my hopes up being the "omg a girl looked at me, wow this program works!" guy. I want to be focused on the actual goal of this program, otherwise I might as well not use it.

That's what I was saying. It was more of to add on to what Gotcha said, instead of somewhat of a personal "poor me" post. I do think there's some benefit in there, though.

[chaosvrgn]

Oh, I don't have "IOI hatred", I just have doubts due to long term issues I've described, so these IOIs are questioned and doubted. That's it, it's not some "IOI hatred". I know those are the first signs, I've seen how girls look at guys they think or say are hot, and without them nothing can happen, but that doesn't stop the questioning of them happening to me due to issues. I don't think women have acted that same way to me, they seem to be far more obvious to other guys. But maybe that always is the case because you can be outside the situation and have a better viewpoint or something. I'm pretty sure I've never had that level of obviousness, I would remember it and it would help me see it's possible.

You pick up on the signals and go with them because you've HAD success with women, so there's confirmation there that the signals are correct and that you can be successful with women etc. I haven't had that, so there's doubt and questioning of these signals from women each time. It's kinda like a train I guess, once it has that momentum going, it's in a groove. Starting it is difficult. That's why I said I feel for situations like this, blunt, massive real world success is most effective at snapping you out of this spiral, anything less is vulnerable to being discounted. And just getting IOIs and using that as confirmation a sexual program is working, is faulty I feel. IOIs can be either misinterpreted because you want to believe it's working, or because there is an issue with you believing it's possible to get them to begin with. It goes both ways to be fair. I just don't want to get my hopes up being the "omg a girl looked at me, wow this program works!" guy. I want to be focused on the actual goal of this program, otherwise I might as well not use it.

That's what I was saying. It was more of to add on to what Gotcha said, instead of somewhat of a personal "poor me" post. I do think there's some benefit in there, though.

I'm with you, man. Only thing I want to clarify is that I wasn't born a natural. Took a long time and lots of blowouts and disappointment to even get to a halfway decent level.

The question is: ... is the modern woman even worth all the trouble and emotional pain?

Yeah, I can get laid, but I've got some serious resentment toward women for the way I was treated getting to that point.

[Catman]

I'm with you, man. Only thing I want to clarify is that I wasn't born a natural. Took a long time and lots of blowouts and disappointment to even get to a halfway decent level.

The question is: ... is the modern woman even worth all the trouble and emotional pain?

Yeah, I can get laid, but I've got some serious resentment toward women for the way I was treated getting to that point.

Exact same thing I'm struggling with, are they worth it? No sex, no relationships, no dates, no kisses, jack, and I'll be 35 next month. I'm amazed I'm still interested in going after women and not giving up due to relentless failure. I think it's more a biological urge I can't control more than anything to be honest with you.

I hear you 100%, too. At least you've had the success, so your perspective is healthier and more balanced than mine. I admit that. I don't hate on guys that get success with women anymore.

EDIT: I took out most of this post, as it was again starting to sound like a long winded whine-a-thon. And don't want to further derail, even though Shannon has moved on to V2.3 testing, but still, lol.