Have you no shame? - OGSF 5G | EPRHA 2.0

[LionKing]

Instead of thinking "oh god! I feel such shame!" and reacting to it by shrinking away. If we instead reacted to it by asking ourselves "what does this shame mean? What is my body trying to tell me about what I'm ashamed of?" and it will always come down to fear.
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You really have to see it this way. And I admire the aspirations of people like Brene Brown, but I do not believe that the answer to overcoming shame is to talk about it. Why? Because by talking about it we make it an entity (and therefore even MORE real), AND, in a twisted irony, if we talk about shame and tell other people they shouldn't be ashamed... guess what we're doing? That's right!

SHAMING PEOPLE FOR BEING ASHAMED!

What you're saying is likely very correct when talking about a community of people. Just considering my personal development though, which is all I was thinking about, I can't quite connect with that. Shame is really a new emotion for me, I'm only now starting to understand it. So I've read about it a little, and now I'm labeling it and making it an entity. Before I really just thought "I feel bad".

So, for example approaching women in a club setting, then having them brush me off and then I'm left standing there and since I can't be bothered to "properly" walk away from them a good distance but instead stop to look around where I'm standing, they'll kind of glance at me wondering if this icky guy is still hitting on them and why won't he leave.

My previous interpretation of that was "I guess I have a fear of something.. but it doesn't feel like fear.. maybe I just have low self-esteem (don't like myself)". Well, I didn't really ruminate on it like that, but if I did it might've sounded like that. Its that part about shame being an internalized thing that I think I've been missing. So now that I know a little more about shame, its becoming an entity on my radar that I can be aware of if I'm mindful. And if I become aware of it, I'll get to know by placing and keeping my attention on it (as opposed to shrinking away, like before when I didn't know I was doing it). Now its something I can work with, instead of me being unlovable or somehow wrong to my core. Now its more like fear or guilt or sorrow.

I do agree that I'd very likely be counterproductive talking to other people about their shame. I was thinking that I might talk with My Girl (known as G1 from now on) a little about shame. I'll just mention this thing I've been reading a little about for myself, like I've talked about my own personal fears - without any mentions of how common it is, or how bad it is that everyone else is so ashamed. Mostly I'm just interested in the differences between men and women; what she thinks about the female model and how does she see the men's model. We've had some interesting talks about men doing something and why I think they might be doing it, based on my own (partly gone) insecurities.

So, in the end, shame is a valuable emotion, because it can let us know if we should go down a certain path or not. This does not mean that we are unworthy of love or anything, it simply means "if I do X, I'll get Y".

I tend to agree with Shannon's approach of transferring the GSF emotional response to the logical centers of the brain. Meditation, therapy or clearing could be the "normal" approaches to doing that. For example, you talk to a girl, she doesn't like and leaves, you feel ashamed. X and Y. But that's still something you can improve on later, if you go against that feeling of shame.

But in the end, it all comes down to what gets you results. As we know, acting strong and "alpha" can help with some women. Does this mean those women are "weak"? Maybe, but the point is, do you want to be judgemental, or do you want to get results?

The zen of life is recognizing what works, and accepting it.

Well, being judgemental is no good. I'd know since I've been doing a lot of it. Actually from now on I'm going to be on the lookout for feeling judgemental, because its telling me something, like you said. But on the other hand there's the question if the result is worth the price. For example, if certain (likely quite hot) women require you to be something you don't like to be, is it worth it that you can stick your D into a warm hole for a short time, then scamper away because you're not interested in keeping the pretend up anymore and you're hungover, bored, etc. Then again if the goal is being happier and you notice you're happier without that crap, then that "works" too.