My energy levels are a bit better since yesterday. But it kind of feels like the 'energy' is being drained out of everything, motivation is massively down, barely any energy to take inspired action, even coming across different ways to set goals in writing it's like "what's the fucking point, it never works" like all the feelings from the last few years of constantly trying to do this and it not amounting to much is coming up all at once.
Not 'feeling' like much is happening, but i'm seeing my dreams being affected though i'm not remembering them as much, I just know there's a difference in how they are presenting.
Not feeling much confidence when i'm going out, none of the calmness and strength I felt initially while listening. But the subtle thing that i'm noticing is there is 'something' a bit different when some girls serve me in shops, like their smile. But it seems mainly with the more feminine ones, a couple of more masculine ones just seemed deadpan, one even kind of rude and annoyed though her words were poilte on the surface. And today I realized one that served me I had a bit of a thing for her and now today she just didn't interest me, she just seems grumpy and unfriendly in general, and a bit of a masculine vibe. And I realized that usually I basically want approval from every single girl without even asking myself do I even like her or does she interest me.
That stood out today when she served me and I just had no interest, plus didn't even care about talking to her. Whereas i'd usually beat myself up for not doing so.
I also feel like I may be getting a bit of guidance towards body based practices. A few days ago was a body based meditation and it sounds very interesting, I wasn't sure if i'm getting guided to it or it's resistance trying to get me to do something else to interrupt. But then today I found another things that is also body based but specifically to get into your masculinity. I've been looking for things like qigong and such specifically for this and have never really found much.. now I suddenly find it and i'm getting this strong urge to take up a morning practice again (I was doing qigong for a long time, but stopped a few months ago).
But since i'm not sure if it will conflict and what the course would actually contain i'm hesitant. My mind keeps going back to it though and this urge that I haven't felt for a while is coming up "do this practice in the morning". Funnily enough this is about the only real motivation i've had towards anything for the whole week.
As I said the more hopeless i'm feeling the more urges I get to increase loops.
It's not like on AM where I had this strong intensity like anger, frustration and such.. it's just like the energy is drained out of everything, my ability to take action towards something, motivation to improve where i'm at because I feel like it's hopeless and have done a huge amount of work on it, especially the last 6-12 months doing several courses, one with some personal coaching and got very little from it. Some temporary good things to report that could make a good testimonial, but that didn't stick in the long term, i've almost been getting to a worse place over time doing all of this work, with especially the last 3 month course it was a substantial amount.
Also I feel that i'm becoming more boring, more bland, more of a 'nice-guy' vibe. There's nothing really to show that actually happening, but it's really how i'm feeling. Like the sense of 'aliveness' is also being drained.
This is 'intense' in a different way, not big loud, raging intensity.. but like something strong weighing me down and draining any ability to do anything about this. Or just making all of this totally obvious because these feelings have been building over time, but have really increased since starting PM.
And what does that mean, Ben?
It's interesting the direction PM seems to be going in.
As I mentioned I hate.. fucking hate.. almost any mention of 'being in your heart' 'coming from love' etc when it comes to Masculinity and instantly rebel against it. Obviously part of this is due to the feminist bullshit weakening men and how they want men to be way too weak.
But i'm seeing little bits of how I might have misinterpreted some of this stuff from some Masculinity coaches. And got a brief feeling of "actually I don't want to be this angry, hate the world, aggressive guy.. I want to come from love, being able to fully love and engage with the world, connect with people, coming from my heart in a way where i'm fully engaged with what i'm doing and who i'm interacting with" and having a brief understanding of the angle this is all coming from isn't what I thought, that there is value to it.
And realizing my massive resistance to it is obviously from my upbringing.
BUT.. as long as you have the strength, groundedness, masculinity also.. preferably as the predominant part and not too far into the love stuff.
Actually I just realized typing this that some of my reluctance is likely the weak, spiritual men spouting "namaste" crap and "love everything" who have no masculine energy whatsoever and don't have the other side that is needed at times, the strength. I've seen alot of stuff that show me alot of these guys also manipulatively get into this shit trying to come across 'spiritual' to women to get laid.
This is a good summary.
(01-06-2025, 02:33 AM)Benjamin Wrote: [ -> ]It's interesting the direction PM seems to be going in.
As I mentioned I hate.. fucking hate.. almost any mention of 'being in your heart' 'coming from love' etc when it comes to Masculinity and instantly rebel against it. Obviously part of this is due to the feminist bullshit weakening men and how they want men to be way too weak.
But i'm seeing little bits of how I might have misinterpreted some of this stuff from some Masculinity coaches. And got a brief feeling of "actually I don't want to be this angry, hate the world, aggressive guy.. I want to come from love, being able to fully love and engage with the world, connect with people, coming from my heart in a way where i'm fully engaged with what i'm doing and who i'm interacting with" and having a brief understanding of the angle this is all coming from isn't what I thought, that there is value to it.
And realizing my massive resistance to it is obviously from my upbringing.
BUT.. as long as you have the strength, groundedness, masculinity also.. preferably as the predominant part and not too far into the love stuff.
Actually I just realized typing this that some of my reluctance is likely the weak, spiritual men spouting "namaste" crap and "love everything" who have no masculine energy whatsoever and don't have the other side that is needed at times, the strength. I've seen alot of stuff that show me alot of these guys also manipulatively get into this shit trying to come across 'spiritual' to women to get laid.
This is a good summary.
Hahahaha that video was fucking hilarious.
PM is not at all what I expected, is it what I wanted? I still don't know.
Have had very strong hopelessness, more than I ever remember. One day I was seriously sitting there just staring into space it was so full on. It kept building and I had a thought that it's trying to lead me to be like "fuck this" and do things I haven't been doing due to fear and such, and that it must be working on it to be bringing it up.
Sadly it got very strong and I went on a porn binge, after being around 6+ weeks off it which is a record for quite a while. I also felt that alot of the strong feelings coming up were due to me not pushing them down with porn. Since then it's been harder to think and become aware of the ressitance, though it's still there.
That was a week ago, then this weekend I went deeper into that hole by furthering that coping mechanism in a negative way.. all due to a seemingly impossible to conquer fear of talking to girls, no matter what I do or what method I use on it. Of course doing this shit will make the fear worse but that doesn't stop it in the moment knowing that consciously.
After that yesterday I was like "fuck this i'm doing 8 loops" and it felt right, I wasn't sure but went with it. This morning I felt weird like nothing was happening. But I had the urge to go out, and this shows the thing that is frustrating for me about PM.
Basically i'm mostly feeling 'nothing'. I'm not feeling masculine, i'm not feeling confident or really that good about myself. BUT 8 loops did something, in one shop a very sexy girl walked past and gave me this little smile and in the supermarket the girl who served me usually just seems 'flat' (like boring and unresponsive) and she was responsive, seemed attracted, and the woman working next to her talked to me too, and maybe a couple of other things I can't remember in other shops.
This is similar to I think friday, I went to some shops. Walking behind some guy into one shop and he opened the door for me and said "I seen you in the window, it's like a mirror" and he had this weird and happy vibe, then in the shop another random guy just started talking to me and didn't seem to want to stop. A girl working in another shop was all kind of nervous and I confirmed it when I said "how's it going" and her response.
But with this happening i'm not feeling that i'm projecting anything and as I said i'm not especially confidence and am feeling fairly insecure actually.
Other things i'm noticing are subtle. It seems to have guided me to a couple of small helpful habits that i've taken on, a little bit of a difference with my workouts and i've noticed that i'm shaping up a little bit, not massive but i've noticed it, my gut is less noticable in some shirts where it would stick out more.
After the 8 loops last night, this afternoon when I got home I was frustrated again, alot of it was that I didn't talk to the girl who was interested which is why I went on a bad binge yesterday too, and the cause of alot of the hopelessness and depression recently, for a while actually. And I started having thoughts of it will never get anywhere, I just need to do something else, try yet another thing, when nothing recently has helped me actually CONCRETELY achieve my goals. Just little "yeah maybe it's doing something".
Actually the frustration around this fear has lead me to some crazy thought patterns after it, but it doesn't seem that i'm able to interrupt it. Occasionally i'll break through and talk to 1 or 2 girls and it'll seem to trigger the same thing after that. Yesterday it brought strong feelings of "what's the fucking point of spending all this time working out if I can never even talk to a girl anyway?" "what's the point of training martial arts if i'll never have anyone to protect?" (e.g a girl).
The thought is "how long do I try this for?" because it is similar that I keep going and keep going, with past programs and with methods i've used thinking "yes maybe i'll hit a breakthrough" and never do. I wouldn't even want to add up the HUGE amount of hours i've spent on all of this, applying different methods dilligently, writing notes and doing exercises and such from different books, exploring all of this... and not much to show from it.
The BIGGEST part causing most of it his this fucking 'sabotage' thing that very quickly derails the shifts and changes happening. I'll have dreams indicating something being worked on and i'll wake up and it'll be right there destroying the realization or shift, or i'll be feeling good going somewhere and it'll do the same. If these shifts and realizations were actually happening properly, from how i'm feeling when they initially start, a definite difference in that something has shifted, then this sabotage ruining that and getting rid of it.. then the changes would be very noticable.
Thoughts of stopping to deal with that sabotage again, but I spent ages trying to do that and I initially made progress with one method I was getting coached in, then he tried something else and messed up all the progress and seemed to get rid of the progress i'd made towards lessening it. Or it brought me to that itself as it tries to take things i've learnt to use too, sounds crazy I know but i've been dealing with it and observing it for a long time. At some point it started I don't know why, but I do remember earlier days of subliminals that I WAS able to actually get realizations and shifts and things were happening properly, at some time it stopped.
Sabotage like that typically results from triggering some very deep, very early, very low awareness and very irrational part of yourself. It has fixated on some belief that it holds which contradicts what you're trying to accomplish consciously, and because it is so low awareness and irrational, it tends to fight the instructions instead of executing them. Or, as in rare cases like yours, it will be overridden while you listen, and then try to actively undo the results.
I suggest you keep exploring the higher loop counts and see what happens. Perhaps at some point there will be a breakthrough. Also explore listening to the program the moment you start experiencing resistance or self sabotage.
When I have the urge i'll do a higher count, 2 nights ago I did 8 and it seemed to be good, then last night I had the urge for 4 and then 8 felt too high. Just following along with it.
So yesterday when warming up for my workout I had some sabotage coming up. I remembered the idea of listening when that happens, and I was unsure but I thought "what if I put it on while i'm working out". The idea was if i'm listening while doing something towards one of the goals i'm using it for then it would be helpful.
I wouldn't recommend it while working out.
I started off feeling a bit weird and light headed, but I noticed I still felt strong, I persisted and briefly I was pacing up and down between sets which is what I used to do because I felt pumped and I feel it was a sign of higher testosterone, but that only lasted a few minutes. And for 1 exercise I really felt the mind muscle connection more than usual.
I finished the workout, but I had this weird feeling i'll try to explain.
It felt like my mind and body were using resources to listen to and 'process' PM, then on top of that I was adding the stress of the workout. So though I still felt strong it felt like my body was more susceptible to the effort, I don't know exactly how to put it but I felt more sore after and today my left outside shoulder is sore.
I guess I experimented with it, and I realized it doesn't work well listening while working out.
I went to a psychic market thing today and it was interesting.
There was this attractive woman at one of the stands who I was talking to, I brought something and she gave me a $6 discount which never happens to me. Then some other people were there so I said "you better serve them". She said to me "come back and see and talk to me later" and gave me a suggestive eyebrow raise.
Another woman smiled at me who was walking past, I thought of talking to her then she was obviously there with her husband, oh well.
I sat down on a couch and a guy come and talked to me, turns out i've met him ages ago but I didn't realize until he said. Then an old woman started talking to me, a kid walked past and smiled at me. This stuff doesn't usually happen. A woman and her daughter sat down on a seat near me and I talked to them, and the guy at the ticket table joined in. I was basically in the flow and started to get a feeling of swagger kind of.
Then I went to the supermarket to get a drink. The cute girl who served me was really happy and bubbly, which I don't remember from the past and she happily engaged with me.
Then after that I fucking started to shut down, kind of like a "this is too good" response. I wanted to go back to the market to talk to the woman on the stand as she was definately keen. I went back in and there was a few more attractive girls and I started to shut down and feel really anxious. Enough that I just had to leave.
I was pissed off because I felt so comfortable, good and in the flow before that. It was definately some kind of fear response.
I decided to go home and put a loop of PM on. I'm feeling more relaxed nearly at the end of the loop, partly from listening but also likely partly that i'm at home now. I was thinking of going back to talk to her, as I have to go out again since I forgot to get something for dinner tonight. I think I feel relaxed again, but i'll see when I go out again.
I'm just mentioning some of this to Shannon. In that on AM I was moody, aggressive, glaring at people, antisocial. Some more people probably did talk to me but alot were intimidated. On PM when it's kicking in i'm more friendly, wanting to engage with people, people talking to me.
Well so far mostly old men and the old woman today, no sexy girls yet, but it is a sign of me projecting something different atleast.
I probably mentioned one reason I was scared to use PM was I thought i'd be really moody, aggressive, glaring at people, get into tons of confrontations and arguments like on AM.. but i'm not. I'm more calm, and actually more accepting of people. Some people I just didn't really care for i've engaged with and found things I like about them that I wouldn't have before.
(01-24-2025, 07:37 PM)Benjamin Wrote: [ -> ]I'm just mentioning some of this to Shannon. In that on AM I was moody, aggressive, glaring at people, antisocial. Some more people probably did talk to me but alot were intimidated. On PM when it's kicking in i'm more friendly, wanting to engage with people, people talking to me.
Well so far mostly old men and the old woman today, no sexy girls yet, but it is a sign of me projecting something different atleast.
I probably mentioned one reason I was scared to use PM was I thought i'd be really moody, aggressive, glaring at people, get into tons of confrontations and arguments like on AM.. but i'm not. I'm more calm, and actually more accepting of people. Some people I just didn't really care for i've engaged with and found things I like about them that I wouldn't have before.
I've never run AM, but I agree that PM is nothing like I expected it to be. I was also hesitant to run it at first because I thought it might bring out aggressive savage tendencies. It doesn't. I actually felt more aggressive and temperamental while running US than I do with PM. PM brings out a sense of warmth in me. Even when I'm confronting someone, it's like I'm either (1) a caring father figure disciplining a child, or (2) a concerned, well-respected friend. There's an exchange that results in productive confrontations versus two beasts scrapping it out. Using a pheromone analogy: I expected Androstenone, but I'm experiencing Androsterone.
As far as the "too good to be true" thing goes, just roll with it and see what happens. Some of my initial experiences with PM have morphed into something more subtle and consistent. At some point you'll get a better sense of where it lands.
As a side note, I recently quit using all forms of caffeine. That has helped me settle deeper into PM. If anxiety is a problem, that might be worth considering.
I suppose that's where the "your own definition of masculinity" part is working its magic.
(01-25-2025, 01:11 PM)thectexperience1 Wrote: [ -> ]I suppose that's where the "your own definition of masculinity" part is working its magic.
And I suspect that a lot of guys are going to be surprised what their definition of masculinity actually is at first...
Quote:I've never run AM, but I agree that PM is nothing like I expected it to be. I was also hesitant to run it at first because I thought it might bring out aggressive savage tendencies. It doesn't. I actually felt more aggressive and temperamental while running US than I do with PM. PM brings out a sense of warmth in me. Even when I'm confronting someone, it's like I'm either (1) a caring father figure disciplining a child, or (2) a concerned, well-respected friend. There's an exchange that results in productive confrontations versus two beasts scrapping it out. Using a pheromone analogy: I expected Androstenone, but I'm experiencing Androsterone.
As far as the "too good to be true" thing goes, just roll with it and see what happens. Some of my initial experiences with PM have morphed into something more subtle and consistent. At some point you'll get a better sense of where it lands.
As a side note, I recently quit using all forms of caffeine. That has helped me settle deeper into PM. If anxiety is a problem, that might be worth considering.
Interesting, I haven't really had any confrontations. I thought one potential one, I went in expecting it. I got a little annoyed at one thing, but calmly stated my point and he accepted it and it was okay. Can't think of any other times.
The 'too good to be true' thing is an old pattern that tends to come up for me, I do hope the attention and my vibe grows more.
I haven't had coffee or caffeine for like 6 years now, I don't generally have a huge amount of anxiety so I could see it was something coming up from PM.. like a little bit of a panic from some part of me after getting that attention I wasn't used to.
Quote:I suppose that's where the "your own definition of masculinity" part is working its magic.
Quote:And I suspect that a lot of guys are going to be surprised what their definition of masculinity actually is at first...
Hmm, that's one thing i'm unsure about. Like it talks about getting rid of feminist and limiting programming, but what if because of upbringing and society that is more in our definition of masculinity than we expect?
I used another masculinity program briefly a while ago, and stopped using it because it was leading me in directions I didn't want and seemed to be trying to get me to accept bs I didn't want. I worry that i've got some of that programming in there.
Still not totally sure where it's going I guess.
Quote:Keep a’ rockin, homie!
Thanks man, i'm trying. It's good when things are flowing, but challenging at other times.
Eh.. I had some bs almost completely derail PM.
As soon as it happened I become aware of the definite but subtle difference I was feeling. This has happened in the past when i've derailed other programs, realizing they were both doing more than I thought, but also not 'breaking through' in certain areas.
Felt my insecurities flooding back in, like they were in progress being worked on. Even stuff like little things I did when hanging out with my friends and feeling anxious or guilty about doing those things, when at the time they felt natural and okay. (eg checking girls out).
Then went on a porn binge which didn't help, stopped at less times than usual but then again today 2 days later. And also getting 'stuck' looking at bs on social media even more. (PM was really lessening that which is good).
I went down the street today though to a couple of shops and this was interesting. I was more talkative, I noticed the woman in the fruit shop who I said was standoffish last week was okay, happy and laughing heaps again. Makes sense since PM was derailed so my vibe lessened, she may have an issue with masculinity with something she has said in the past.
Went to another shop and talked to the girl who served me and she was responsive. She's a bit fat but okay, but I was thinking about it after and I come up with a theory. So PM was working to 'increase my level' so to speak, and I was looking at more attractive girls, but not feeling totally comfortable and not really talking to them, and now it's like that was disrupted and my mind settled at my level that it's more comfortable with.
Also I was noticing i've started to look better, and today I looked in the mirror and was like "fuck I look fat". So maybe it was my perception shifting, and the other thought that my self image was shifting and PM was moving me towards it (being in better shape) and I was perceiving that. I do feel i'm in a bit better shape though and have noticed some increased strength.
I was struggling with my workout this morning. I've had this a few other times in that i'll be doing my warmup (foam rolling and such) and be really tired, and just lay there and be like "what's the fucking point, I should not just do my workout". That went on for a while then I suddenly was like "no, fucking stop, shut the fuck up and stop being a victim, i'm doing this workout" and I felt a bit better and ended up doing the workout and it went pretty good.
This "what's the fucking point" thing is a familiar pattern that comes up strongly and fairly intensely at times in general, not just working out. Like "Fuck it, I distupted, fucked up, destroyed my results again, why am I even bothering" then I just keep on going, something keeps me going, but I keep wondering "is it just going to be enough one day and I just reach the end of the determination and just give up".
When PM was kicking in and flowing I felt good on it and okay to continue it. Now that it was interrupted and it feels pretty much like I destroyed a month of progress (thought - is this some other type of resistance that tries to stop me?) i'm more considering just going onto a 6g program. Whether that be OSC, or probably more useful for me OGSF. Shannon said OGSF v2 was hitting pretty directly upon my core issues which is why I fucking hated it and it was my least favourite program. It'd be interesting to see what 6g does.
Of course AM7 is a big fuck yes for me at some stage.