Shannon's Journal Discussion Volume 3

[Ymiraku]

How about instead of coming up with reasons that youre going to fail you come up with reasons why you're going to succeed?

It's seriously like everyone here is deadset on proving that they're failures so that DMSI is also a failure.

You bought the damned subliminal, how about helping it give you your money's worth? Stop reinforcing your doubts and start shaping your beliefs. Be positive.

Where in my post did I try to prove that I am a failure? I was not highlighting my doubts I was simply pointing out a fact. Do you deny that social conditioning has affected the way women respond to taking the lead when it comes to random strangers?

The subconscious rules the conscious mind. Thoughts arise from the subconscious mind into the conscious mind based on your conditioning and experiences in life. If the program is so successful at reprogramming the subconscious then it will work to change our core beliefs regarding what is possible and you really won't have to do anything on a conscious thought level other than allow the change.

1) it isn't a fact. I've had women approach me for sex quite blatantly and I'm not what most people would consider celebrity status or desirable in modern society. I'm not going to enter into a game of yes or no, as you're simply doing the exact same thing I said to stop doing. Stop pretending you know what reality is and how it operates. You don't. So how about you start being positive and make a conscious decision to change your beliefs and help the subliminal work.

2) the subconscious doesn't rule the conscious mind. It influences it strongly and has a major impact on helping you shape reality, but it doesnt rule it.

I am not pretending to know what reality is, our perception of reality is shaped by our beliefs. The fact that a large portion of the population believes that men should take the initiative and go after women has shaped society and dating into what it is today.

'Know your limits. Also know how to break them.'

I am currently working on destroying my limiting beliefs, but sometimes it takes knowing what those beliefs really are and someone else to challenge them before you can let go of them. I thank you for your perspective

[Shawn]

That nofap stuff is highly personal. However, some people don't even want to try it before making up their minds. I too was thinking before that jerking off once in a while was okay. Until I tried nofap for more than 60days. Now I can't just go back at all and now I know how harmful it was for me. That was really self-destructive...The benefits outweigh by far the few minutes of delusional pleasure you would get by fapping. Just the fact that life became infinitely more pleasurable is priceless. I do more in less time and everything is fun. I have that stupid smile all the time and everything seems more and more enjoyable.
Idk about the benefits of nofap regarding sex and women as I couldn't care less at all, but my mood is great and life seems more easy.

So I think people should try at least. As it is very personal you don't know what you might get from it.

I answered it here:
https://subliminal-talk.com/Thread-Men-s...#pid193130

[lano1106]

As long as your beliefs conflict with the goals of DMSI, you will resist it. As long as you believe that you have to chase to get tail, you will be stuck believing you are displaying lower value while you are in fact classing yourself, at best, as being "Level 2" instead of Level 1. Just because a lot of guys can't naturally get attention without action is not to say that the top 1% of the top 1% can't. What you're trying to do is be that level 2 or whatever guy, who is successful within his level. What DMSI is trying to do is turn you into that Level 1 guy you refuse to believe exists.

Brad Pitt walks into a bar. How many women does he have to game to go out to his car and get his dick wet?

Nicholas Cage. Elvis Presley. Michael Jordan. John F. Kennedy. Justin Beiber. George Clooney. Will Smith. Johnny Depp. Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson. Tom Cruise. Robert Downey Jr. Ashton Kutcher. Channing Tatum. Frank Sinatra. Tiger Woods. Leonardo DiCaprio. Eminem. John Wayne. All of these guys, and many more, could answer with...

Zero.

It helps that everyone you listed there is a celebrity and are mostly household names and command extremely high social status. What about a guy who isn't popular and well known outside of his own friends and acquaintances? Sure he may be extremely attractive and have high personal value and will get a lot of looks from women but he is and unknown variable to most people. It doesn't matter how strong your sexual energy is, the society conditioned thinking that 99% of the female are ruled by will prevent them from making first contact with you, maybe unless they are extremely confident themselves and are willing to risk breaking the conditioned rules that they have programmed with. But that is an exceptional situation.

The way that I understand it is even if a celebrity isn't recognized, he will be treated as such simply by the non-verbal cues that you will communicate simply because of your self-image.

If you deeply believe that you are the shit and you are expecting to be treated as such. People will accept that and comply.

[Nox]

How about instead of coming up with reasons that youre going to fail you come up with reasons why you're going to succeed?

It's seriously like everyone here is deadset on proving that they're failures so that DMSI is also a failure.

You bought the damned subliminal, how about helping it give you your money's worth? Stop reinforcing your doubts and start shaping your beliefs. Be positive.

Where in my post did I try to prove that I am a failure? I was not highlighting my doubts I was simply pointing out a fact. Do you deny that social conditioning has affected the way women respond to taking the lead when it comes to random strangers?

The subconscious rules the conscious mind. Thoughts arise from the subconscious mind into the conscious mind based on your conditioning and experiences in life. If the program is so successful at reprogramming the subconscious then it will work to change our core beliefs regarding what is possible and you really won't have to do anything on a conscious thought level other than allow the change.

1) it isn't a fact. I've had women approach me for sex quite blatantly and I'm not what most people would consider celebrity status or desirable in modern society. I'm not going to enter into a game of yes or no, as you're simply doing the exact same thing I said to stop doing. Stop pretending you know what reality is and how it operates. You don't. So how about you start being positive and make a conscious decision to change your beliefs and help the subliminal work.

2) the subconscious doesn't rule the conscious mind. It influences it strongly and has a major impact on helping you shape reality, but it doesnt rule it.

I am not pretending to know what reality is, our perception of reality is shaped by our beliefs. The fact that a large portion of the population believes that men should take the initiative and go after women has shaped society and dating into what it is today.

'Know your limits. Also know how to break them.'

I am currently working on destroying my limiting beliefs, but sometimes it takes knowing what those beliefs really are and someone else to challenge them before you can let go of them. I thank you for your perspective

I liked you before. I like you even more now. You can do this.

[Determined]

That nofap stuff is highly personal. However, some people don't even want to try it before making up their minds. I too was thinking before that jerking off once in a while was okay. Until I tried nofap for more than 60days. Now I can't just go back at all and now I know how harmful it was for me. That was really self-destructive...The benefits outweigh by far the few minutes of delusional pleasure you would get by fapping. Just the fact that life became infinitely more pleasurable is priceless. I do more in less time and everything is fun. I have that stupid smile all the time and everything seems more and more enjoyable.
Idk about the benefits of nofap regarding sex and women as I couldn't care less at all, but my mood is great and life seems more easy.

So I think people should try at least. As it is very personal you don't know what you might get from it.

I agree that you never really know what the benefits are, until you do it for at least 2-3 months. I'm 4 months in now, and life is just much more amazing.

The problem with science and medicine is that you can't trust what they are saying. They invented the myth that masturbation is good for you and that not masturbating increases your chances of prostate cancer. But these propaganda are designed to trick you and to prevent you from your true potential.

I'm not picking on you Wolf so please don't feel that way, but so much of what you just said is wrong.

Firstly, the original study was relating ejaculation and prostate cancer. Somehow, people spun that to include "masturbating" and the narrative was born.

Secondly, I just did a bit of researching; the studies relating masturbation and prostate cancer actually indicate that men in their 20's and 30's who masturbate frequently actually increase their risk of early prostate cancer while men in their 50's decrease it.

As an add on to the NoFap discussion, this would be much easier if people stopped demonising masturbation. If we're going to be honest here, we all played with ourselves because it feels good. Our initial instincts directed us to put our hands in our pants and have a fondle. Developmental psychologists have identified that it's normal for pre-pubescent boys to play with their private parts. So stop demonising masturbation because that's not the issue.

The real issue is porn. If you're fapping and you're not horny, then you have a problem.

Masturbation itself is a normal, healthy activity. Where it goes wrong is when people abuse it (just like anything else in this world). Even Casanova wrote a few pages in his biography extolling the virtues of masturbating.

The real issue is self control. No one's forcing you to watch porn and masturbate. You're making a choice. Scientists and Doctors aren't openly advocating for everyone to engage in masturbation because it's healthy. That's just a cop out. If doing a NoFap and conserving semen helps you break that pattern, then more power to you.

To summarise: Admitting that you (or anyone else) engaged in masturbation because it feels good and because we instinctually play with ourselves is a necessary first step. Demonising it because you look back and want to blame something instead of taking personal ownership is something else entirely. There's noting inherently wrong with masturbating. Where people go wrong is when they abuse porn, or willingly choose not to pursue women.

[Ymiraku]

Secondly, I just did a bit of researching; the studies relating masturbation and prostate cancer actually indicate that men in their 20's and 30's who masturbate frequently actually increase their risk of early prostate cancer while men in their 50's decrease it.

Well damn maybe I should go get my prostate checked lol.

I looked into this Nofap trend, and while I do agree that it does have some merit it seems like people get very ego defensive about it.

Honestly if you are fapping away 4+ times a day its obviously became an addiction. And addictions are never a good thing in my experience. Porn is an issue; it shows unnatural courtships or just entirely skips it and portrays women like they are just sex toys. Subtly but surely it will change the way you see women and interact with women.

As it is now I am several days at a time without masturbating, and it feels way more natural.

[Determined]

Secondly, I just did a bit of researching; the studies relating masturbation and prostate cancer actually indicate that men in their 20's and 30's who masturbate frequently actually increase their risk of early prostate cancer while men in their 50's decrease it.

Well damn maybe I should go get my prostate checked lol.

I looked into this Nofap trend, and while I do agree that it does have some merit it seems like people get very ego defensive about it.

Honestly if you are fapping away 4+ times a day its obviously became an addiction. And addictions are never a good thing in my experience. Porn is an issue; it shows unnatural courtships or just entirely skips it and portrays women like they are just sex toys. Subtly but surely it will change the way you see women and interact with women.

As it is now I am several days at a time without masturbating, and it feels way more natural.

I did a Nofap last year (because I was travelling) for 6 weeks. I know how good it feels and I know how empowering the energy is. If I'm being honest, the entire time I had the desire to play with myself which I'm sure these other nofap guys have had too. If they're fighting that desire then that should clue them in to what's really going on in their minds.

On a more practical level, the body needs to cycle sperm. If it isn't being ejaculated, more than likely it's being released as nocturnal emissions.

[DarkPlouf]

Porn make things worst but I believe masturbation by itself IS an issue. Or rather ejaculating. In the past I clearly remember I stopped porn for many, many months. But I was still masturbating. I never ever experienced the same effects that I have now, free of porn AND masturbation.
Conclusion? It's not only about porn, but also spilling the beans. I don't want to go into rule 4 things but the amount of mental clarify I have now is totally insane. And just breathing emits so much heat. For someone working a lot with the mind it's a huge difference. I tested it. Ejaculating resets back the mental clarify to level 0, usually just on the second day. And ejaculating two days in a row is the worst thing to do really. We go from 0 to - 50.
And scientifically speaking, I highly suspect that the reason I enjoy life more now is because my dopamine level is back to normal. Masturbation does mess up dopamine level. Not only porn.

But anyway, all these studies and researches don't mean anything when it comes to personal experience. The day I'd rethink the credibility of nofap would be when I will stop getting benefits from it, or when the drawbacks would outweigh the benefits.

[wolverine_i_am]

Porn make things worst but I believe masturbation by itself IS an issue. Or rather ejaculating. In the past I clearly remember I stopped porn for many, many months. But I was still masturbating. I never ever experienced the same effects that I have now, free of porn AND masturbation.
Conclusion? It's not only about porn, but also spilling the beans. I don't want to go into rule 4 things but the amount of mental clarify I have now is totally insane. And just breathing emits so much heat. For someone working a lot with the mind it's a huge difference. I tested it. Ejaculating resets back the mental clarify to level 0, usually just after the second day. And ejaculating two days in a row is the worst thing to do really. We go from 0 to - 50.
And scientifically speaking, I highly suspect that the reason I enjoy life more now is because my dopamine level is back to normal. Masturbation does mess up dopamine level. Not only porn.

But anyway, all these studies and researches don't mean anything when it comes to personal experience. The day I'd rethink the credibility of nofap would be when I will stop getting benefits from it, or when the drawbacks would outweigh the benefits.

I can testify to the benefit of having mental clarity. My mind and intuition is super sharp. I can also tap into people's emotions and know what they are really feeling. I can sense people's energy, like I'm very sensitive to it. This is something I got 2 months in. It's hard to explain in words, but just one of those things you need to experience to understand.

There is a reason why we have urges, it's because of our biological nature to reproduce. But this does not mean we have to use it for that reason. You can decide to keep all that energy in and let it turn you into a beast. I'm not saying masturbation is bad, but it just makes you more powerful when you don't do it.

Personally I believe it does increase testosterone, even if so-called science experiments say it doesn't. What I feel when I do is more dominance and assertiveness. More energy and motivation. The list goes on. These are traits of people with higher testosterone. I go by what I feel, and I'll take it as my truth. Before no fap, I had much less of any of these things.

[sw72hw]

Interesting discussion about porn and masturbation. It seems that more people think that masturbation affects sexual aura/energy negatively, and even perhaps testosterone level. It seems to me that there is a consensus that porn is bad.

Here is a question. Let's say that a guy is having sex every single day, and every time he has sex, he ejaculates. Would his sexual aura and energy be negatively impacted from sex and ejaculation?

If sex does not have negative influence on sexual energy and aura, then I wonder what separates sex and masturbation, based on an assumption that masturbation would impact sexual aura/energy negatively.

If sex and ejaculation does impact sexual aura and energy level negatively, should we then try to not ejaculate while having sex? (In this case, would sex feel good?)

[Shawn]

Sex is different than masturbation. Masturbation is indeed release so you loose some energy which has to be refilled. With sex it is more like some sort of energy exchange, at least you don't loose that much energy from my experience.

[wolverine_i_am]

Interesting discussion about porn and masturbation. It seems that more people think that masturbation affects sexual aura/energy negatively, and even perhaps testosterone level. It seems to me that there is a consensus that porn is bad.

Here is a question. Let's say that a guy is having sex every single day, and every time he has sex, he ejaculates. Would his sexual aura and energy be negatively impacted from sex and ejaculation?

If sex does not have negative influence on sexual energy and aura, then I wonder what separates sex and masturbation, based on an assumption that masturbation would impact sexual aura/energy negatively.

If sex and ejaculation does impact sexual aura and energy level negatively, should we then try to not ejaculate while having sex? (In this case, would sex feel good?)

You still lose energy with sex (after all people still get knocked out from it), but not as much energy loss as masturbation. This is why a lotta athletes don't have sex before a huge match, especially boxers and mma fighters, so they have more energy and aggression on fight day.

To answer your question, there is a type of tantric sex that intentionally avoids orgasm. The purpose is to retain energy.

[lano1106]

Porn make things worst but I believe masturbation by itself IS an issue. Or rather ejaculating. In the past I clearly remember I stopped porn for many, many months. But I was still masturbating. I never ever experienced the same effects that I have now, free of porn AND masturbation.
Conclusion? It's not only about porn, but also spilling the beans. I don't want to go into rule 4 things but the amount of mental clarify I have now is totally insane. And just breathing emits so much heat. For someone working a lot with the mind it's a huge difference. I tested it. Ejaculating resets back the mental clarify to level 0, usually just after the second day. And ejaculating two days in a row is the worst thing to do really. We go from 0 to - 50.
And scientifically speaking, I highly suspect that the reason I enjoy life more now is because my dopamine level is back to normal. Masturbation does mess up dopamine level. Not only porn.

But anyway, all these studies and researches don't mean anything when it comes to personal experience. The day I'd rethink the credibility of nofap would be when I will stop getting benefits from it, or when the drawbacks would outweigh the benefits.

I can testify to the benefit of having mental clarity. My mind and intuition is super sharp. I can also tap into people's emotions and know what they are really feeling. I can sense people's energy, like I'm very sensitive to it. This is something I got 2 months in. It's hard to explain in words, but just one of those things you need to experience to understand.

There is a reason why we have urges, it's because of our biological nature to reproduce. But this does not mean we have to use it for that reason. You can decide to keep all that energy in and let it turn you into a beast. I'm not saying masturbation is bad, but it just makes you more powerful when you don't do it.

Personally I believe it does increase testosterone, even if so-called science experiments say it doesn't. What I feel when I do is more dominance and assertiveness. More energy and motivation. The list goes on. These are traits of people with higher testosterone. I go by what I feel, and I'll take it as my truth. Before no fap, I had much less of any of these things.

I feel that this is going to be moderated down soon as it is kinda off-topic (but maybe not since DMSI specifically address this issue)

I think that your belief about fap/nofap will greatly affect how you feel after ejaculating or abstaining.

Sometime in my life, I did buy into the Taoist philosophy energy preservation thing by abstaining ejaculating. What I remember from that life period is that:

1. I was feeling exhausted after ejaculating and possibly losing mental clarity because of being tired
2. My semen volume did shrink to a ridiculous few drops because I had long period of abstinence (For me, splashing my partner with my load is something that I like very much...)

Now, I make sure that I do ejaculate regularly (preferably from real sex but at least once a week by fapping if needed) and I feel much better and my semen volume did return to a more healthy quantity...

The funny thing is I wonder how much our beliefs do influence how we feel after ejaculating....

[Ymiraku]

When I was in my early 20's I got into alot of self hypnosis and auto suggestion and made some sweeping changes as to how I view myself and the world. The way people treated me changed and my behaviour and internal feelings greatly changed. At one point I felt extremely masculine, almost aggressive. My walk was extremely confident and I radiated calmness and self confidence. I literally never got disrespected by anyone and if someone tried belittling me I would subdue them with eye contact alone. Not only that but when I was around women I just instinctively knew that they were noticing me and wanted to have sex with me. I was getting huge IOI's to the point where women would be licking their lips and twirling their hair when they spoke to me. At this time in my life yes i was masturbating once a day, some times I went a few days without it, some days I did it twice in the same day. And yet I felt extremely masculine and powerful. Now being a horny 21 year old with testosterone coming out of my ears if I had gone without masturbating for too long I would have felt like I was going to explode.

What destroyed further progress and caused me to slowly relapse was drug abuse, apathy and addiction to pornography.

I'm not saying that not masturbating is a bad thing, but ones own experiences are largely subjective and dependent on multiple variables. Addiction and excess is what you want to avoid. That is the problem. Not occasionally rubbing one out