Shannon's Journal Discussion Thread, Vol.9

[Shannon]

Did you try using the Masked format before Hybrid?

I didn't no. I've found higher loops, "tougher" format works better for the fear my subconscious has.

How many times have you tried masked format?

[Have at ye]

You know, what you wrote here reminds me of Lacan's concept of "la-langue", a pre-speech language in which the infant/young child operates. In psychoanalytic practice, it's technically possible to communicate with these parts of the unconscious, but they express themselves in wonky ways: jokes, weird associations, rhymes, etc., and a skilled therapist should know how to respond (though it's mostly instinctual).

What I am primarily working with in most cases is pre-speech entirely. It appears to be pure instinct at the lowest levels, and adds emotions at the higher levels. There is no language at all in the literal sense of what "language" means (to use the tongue to speak).  I have found that there is communication with, from and to even these parts, but it's very different than speech based communications that speaking children and adults are used to.

On another note, what seems to be helping me while using PTRA is targeting postive affects to the damaged parts, like bombarding them with healing energy and aura of love energy. Perhaps something akin to this is already employed? Like auric modulations used in DMSI, but for a change used to heal traumas that are still somewhat language-resistant (so targeted to the user themselves).

PRA has Aura of Love in it.  You're suggesting targeted love bombing using this unconditional love energy?

Yes. Perhaps even more specific modulation, aimed at healing the pre-speech parts primarily, if possible to script.

[Frosted]

oh sorry I meant MIR, not MHS. But yeah the companion program thing was just a shot in the dark since it was a cool idea. I could see it working though if there was some kind of way to synchronize it with the other program somehow, but I'm not familiar with all the mechanics so it's purely conceptual on my end.

I appreciate your input, regardless.

Of course! 

[callie]

My work so far stronglysuggests that the earliest parts are seriously restricted in their capacity for awareness and comprehension/interpretation/understanding of stimulus.  Perhas we are talking about the same thing when you say limited bandwidth.  Depending on the age at which the trauma was experienced, the "version" of you that "crystalized out" may have little to no ability to understand spoken communication beyond tone and other metacommunications.In many cases, these early crystalizations have only instinct and emotional awareness to use for their comprehension capacity, and the trauma is not always, but frequently, triggered by or made worse by a severe misunderstanding of or misinterpretation of what has actually transpired.

The cases I have worked with, they don't want to do the traumatized dog thing, they just want to hide from whatever makes them remember the trauma.  That seems to be their entire focus: avoiding more trauma, while causing themselves more anxiety and or trauma by focusing on avoiding the trauma and experiencing more of what caused it, thus remembering it, which triggers the anxiety.  In some personality types, it becomes an upward spiral of self traumatization and the person gets worse and worse over time.

One of the approaches I use is to interrupt any feedback loops and redirect them into healing and re-developing the neural pathways that they strengthened into alternate non-trauma associated neural pathways that are in a positive direction.

But the recorded "crystalization", in my model, is not physical.  That is, in part, the memory that is interpreted in the way that results in the fear/guilt/shame becoming the repeated neural path that shapes the nervous system into a constant trauma response. Along with the "system status snapshot" that is the "self" at the time of trauma experience, which is also not physical - or not entirely physical - in my model.

To re-shape the traumatic nervous pathways is great, but if we do not also work with the crystalized part in adjusting it's awareness of and interpretattion of the cause of the trauma experience, the neural pathway just re-forms over time.  This is the truly challenging part of the equation.  How do we work with parts of your awareness associated with memories which are traumatic, to change the understanding of the event to become less traumatic and understood in a different way to allow the trauma associated neural pathways to be extinguished in favor of non-traumatic pathways, which do not regenerate because the awareness itself is not constantly reacting to the memory of the experience of trauma and the feelings it resulted in?

That is a very long sentence.

Anyway, I am working on this.  I am making progress on this, as is evidenced by the results my girlfriend is getting.  Her traumas resulted in a very young girl who had only instinctual and limited emotional awareness, completely misunderstanding parts of what happened to her, and being completely unable to deal with other parts of what she experienced.  The progress she's made using PTSD Recovery Aid v1 is quite surprising, and I am very grateful, but there is more work to be done, and I am still working.

The issue is something I understand.  But developing a solution that works for all traumas and all ages and all personality types is not a simple or fast thing.  I can't really share with you exactly what I am working on for resolving this early trauma issue.  But all evidence points to that I am making progress and going in the right direction.  And v2 goals and adjustments are in development.  

Recently, I found a source of worthwhile information regarding this topic which somewhat surprisingly agrees with my model, research and approach (did not expect that), and has offered me a number of ideas for extending it based on the research of others in the field.  I'm currently reviewing that research and those ideas and approaches to see what of it is useful and what I can develop into PTSD Recovery Aid v2.  The good news is, this will probably allow me to skip a version, and bring what would have been v3 in v2.  The bad news is, this adds sufficient complexity to require multiple additional months to process and develop v2 now.

I am convinced that there is at least one way to work with these extremely early traumatized personality crystalizations and make definite progress in resolving their traumas and responses.  The challenge is in not just communicating with them, but getting them to cooperate in spite of the trauma response, and getting them to do the right things when the cmmunication mode(s) available may be extremely basic.

Thanks for explaining. I think what you are saying makes sense and its similar to the IFS model in many ways. But my issue is that these models stay mostly at the mental level and dont really address the structural, embodied mechanics of trauma

Also one thing where I see it a bit differently is the framing of “misunderstanding”. From my perspective these early responses dont feel like misinterpretations so much as context driven survival adaptations. Take internal shame for example, its a useful protective strategy which serves to suppress expression and take blame inwards, which reduces relational threat in order to maintain connection. Given the developmental constraints of infancy and childhood, the child does what it must to preserve safety and attachment with the limited tools available. The problem isnt the existence of these strategies but how they are approached later and when conscious identity begins to organize around them, taking survival strategies to be core truths about who one is rather than recognizing them as context bound adaptations

More broadly, I think trauma doesnt actually need to be endlessly complex to understand at a functional level. If you look at it purely mechanically, trauma is largely unfinished and unintegrated survival responses. They get “stuck” because there wasnt enough experienced safety during or after the original event for the system to settle and complete those sequences

I think the dog analogy demonstrates the safety principle at the core, which is that very primitive safety regulating layers operate in similar ways in preverbal trauma. In that context, safety seems to be governed largely by binary sensory and external cues, and until certain experiential conditions are met, the system remains locked in a survival loop, which also gates awareness. The big difference between a human and a dog is identity formation, a dog doesnt build narratives or self concepts around its fear, so it doesnt accumulate the layers of secondary meaning and limiting beliefs that people do

What makes developmental and abandonment trauma especially difficult is that the very system responsible for establishing safety, which is attachment, is also the one that was disrupted. So the thing thats most needed for healing is often experienced as the primary source of threat. That paradox is what I keep coming back to when I think about how early abandonment trauma can realistically be resolved. That was what my original question was about, how subliminals could realistically help solve this paradox. You never got back to it, which is fine though, as I realize its a very difficult question

[dragonslayer]

Hi @Shannon , I started my 2nd Run of EHPRA + DRS 6G on December 7, 2025 and I'm still using it.

Ultra Success was on my mind because I read the USLM description page that you built USLM when you were depressed to help you build better subs.

So my rationale is if you used Ultra Success with LM during your past depression, then the latest Ultra Success with a revamped script would help me get through my MDD to go after my goals.

That is possible, but unlikely.  Most causes of depression will not respond that way.

But I can stick with EHPRA + DRS now until this 2nd Run is done in a month since my depression score is now lower compared to before per my therapist. 

I do find EHPRA + DRS working, especially the DRS.

My mentioning X4A-2600 is a sign of resistance that I now know is a distraction from my priority, therefore, I'm not getting it.

If your depression score is lower, definitely stick to PRA v1, at least until you are done with the current run-through.

HI @Shannon, thank you for your reply. 

I have some good news. My therapist said on our last therapy session that my depression went even lower than my previous last score.

She discharged me and said to independently continue with the CBT skills I learned with her help.

Since I started my 2nd run of EHPRA 6G on December 7, 2025, I will finish this run-through on February 7, 2026. 

I am intending to run MLS 6G 1 week after. 

For the time off between subs, is it at least 1 week off from the last day ON of the last cycle? 

Or is it 1 week off from the last day OFF of the last cycle?

For example, since EHPRA is 1 day ON and 2 days OFF per cycle:

1. last day ON = Thursday, February 5, 2026
2. day OFF = February 6th 
3. day OFF = February 7th 

when would the 1 week off between subs start?

Would the 1 week off between EHPRA & MLS start on February 12th (1 week from last day ON = Thursday, February 5, 2026) or February 14th (1 week from last day OFF = February 7th)?

Thank you, Shannon, for EHPRA 6G & DRS 6G.

[Shannon]

My work so far stronglysuggests that the earliest parts are seriously restricted in their capacity for awareness and comprehension/interpretation/understanding of stimulus.  Perhas we are talking about the same thing when you say limited bandwidth.  Depending on the age at which the trauma was experienced, the "version" of you that "crystalized out" may have little to no ability to understand spoken communication beyond tone and other metacommunications.In many cases, these early crystalizations have only instinct and emotional awareness to use for their comprehension capacity, and the trauma is not always, but frequently, triggered by or made worse by a severe misunderstanding of or misinterpretation of what has actually transpired.

The cases I have worked with, they don't want to do the traumatized dog thing, they just want to hide from whatever makes them remember the trauma.  That seems to be their entire focus: avoiding more trauma, while causing themselves more anxiety and or trauma by focusing on avoiding the trauma and experiencing more of what caused it, thus remembering it, which triggers the anxiety.  In some personality types, it becomes an upward spiral of self traumatization and the person gets worse and worse over time.

One of the approaches I use is to interrupt any feedback loops and redirect them into healing and re-developing the neural pathways that they strengthened into alternate non-trauma associated neural pathways that are in a positive direction.

But the recorded "crystalization", in my model, is not physical.  That is, in part, the memory that is interpreted in the way that results in the fear/guilt/shame becoming the repeated neural path that shapes the nervous system into a constant trauma response. Along with the "system status snapshot" that is the "self" at the time of trauma experience, which is also not physical - or not entirely physical - in my model.

To re-shape the traumatic nervous pathways is great, but if we do not also work with the crystalized part in adjusting it's awareness of and interpretattion of the cause of the trauma experience, the neural pathway just re-forms over time.  This is the truly challenging part of the equation.  How do we work with parts of your awareness associated with memories which are traumatic, to change the understanding of the event to become less traumatic and understood in a different way to allow the trauma associated neural pathways to be extinguished in favor of non-traumatic pathways, which do not regenerate because the awareness itself is not constantly reacting to the memory of the experience of trauma and the feelings it resulted in?

That is a very long sentence.

Anyway, I am working on this.  I am making progress on this, as is evidenced by the results my girlfriend is getting.  Her traumas resulted in a very young girl who had only instinctual and limited emotional awareness, completely misunderstanding parts of what happened to her, and being completely unable to deal with other parts of what she experienced.  The progress she's made using PTSD Recovery Aid v1 is quite surprising, and I am very grateful, but there is more work to be done, and I am still working.

The issue is something I understand.  But developing a solution that works for all traumas and all ages and all personality types is not a simple or fast thing.  I can't really share with you exactly what I am working on for resolving this early trauma issue.  But all evidence points to that I am making progress and going in the right direction.  And v2 goals and adjustments are in development.  

Recently, I found a source of worthwhile information regarding this topic which somewhat surprisingly agrees with my model, research and approach (did not expect that), and has offered me a number of ideas for extending it based on the research of others in the field.  I'm currently reviewing that research and those ideas and approaches to see what of it is useful and what I can develop into PTSD Recovery Aid v2.  The good news is, this will probably allow me to skip a version, and bring what would have been v3 in v2.  The bad news is, this adds sufficient complexity to require multiple additional months to process and develop v2 now.

I am convinced that there is at least one way to work with these extremely early traumatized personality crystalizations and make definite progress in resolving their traumas and responses.  The challenge is in not just communicating with them, but getting them to cooperate in spite of the trauma response, and getting them to do the right things when the cmmunication mode(s) available may be extremely basic.

Thanks for explaining. I think what you are saying makes sense and its similar to the IFS model in many ways. But my issue is that these models stay mostly at the mental level and dont really address the structural, embodied mechanics of trauma

Also one thing where I see it a bit differently is the framing of “misunderstanding”. From my perspective these early responses dont feel like misinterpretations so much as context driven survival adaptations. Take internal shame for example, its a useful protective strategy which serves to suppress expression and take blame inwards, which reduces relational threat in order to maintain connection. Given the developmental constraints of infancy and childhood, the child does what it must to preserve safety and attachment with the limited tools available. The problem isnt the existence of these strategies but how they are approached later and when conscious identity begins to organize around them, taking survival strategies to be core truths about who one is rather than recognizing them as context bound adaptations

More broadly, I think trauma doesnt actually need to be endlessly complex to understand at a functional level. If you look at it purely mechanically, trauma is largely unfinished and unintegrated survival responses. They get “stuck” because there wasnt enough experienced safety during or after the original event for the system to settle and complete those sequences

I think the dog analogy demonstrates the safety principle at the core, which is that very primitive safety regulating layers operate in similar ways in preverbal trauma. In that context, safety seems to be governed largely by binary sensory and external cues, and until certain experiential conditions are met, the system remains locked in a survival loop, which also gates awareness. The big difference between a human and a dog is identity formation, a dog doesnt build narratives or self concepts around its fear, so it doesnt accumulate the layers of secondary meaning and limiting beliefs that people do

What makes developmental and abandonment trauma especially difficult is that the very system responsible for establishing safety, which is attachment, is also the one that was disrupted. So the thing thats most needed for healing is often experienced as the primary source of threat. That paradox is what I keep coming back to when I think about how early abandonment trauma can realistically be resolved. That was what my original question was about, how subliminals could realistically help solve this paradox. You never got back to it, which is fine though, as I realize its a very difficult question

Solving that paradox is part of what I am referring to when I say I can't give that away.

[Shannon]

That is possible, but unlikely.  Most causes of depression will not respond that way.


If your depression score is lower, definitely stick to PRA v1, at least until you are done with the current run-through.

HI @Shannon, thank you for your reply. 

I have some good news. My therapist said on our last therapy session that my depression went even lower than my previous last score.

She discharged me and said to independently continue with the CBT skills I learned with her help.

Since I started my 2nd run of EHPRA 6G on December 7, 2025, I will finish this run-through on February 7, 2026. 

I am intending to run MLS 6G 1 week after. 

For the time off between subs, is it at least 1 week off from the last day ON of the last cycle? 

Or is it 1 week off from the last day OFF of the last cycle?

For example, since EHPRA is 1 day ON and 2 days OFF per cycle:

1. last day ON = Thursday, February 5, 2026
2. day OFF = February 6th 
3. day OFF = February 7th 

when would the 1 week off between subs start?

Would the 1 week off between EHPRA & MLS start on February 12th (1 week from last day ON = Thursday, February 5, 2026) or February 14th (1 week from last day OFF = February 7th)?

Thank you, Shannon, for EHPRA 6G & DRS 6G.

You want to go through all of the ON and OFF days for that cycle, and then take a week off.

I'm hoping to see more progress from you.

[4Kingdoms]

https://subliminal-talk.com/Thread-Shann...#pid271046

I am coming close to burning out on working with AM7. 

Going to take some time off to recover. 

During my time away from that script, I've decided to build DMSI v5.2, with a shield but without FRM.

[NOMAD]

https://subliminal-talk.com/Thread-Shann...#pid271046

I am coming close to burning out on working with AM7. 

Going to take some time off to recover. 

During my time away from that script, I've decided to build DMSI v5.2, with a shield but without FRM.

As someone who has been checking the forum daily for AM7 updates, I can't adequately communicate how disappointed I am with this news. I mean that in the sincerest possible way. AM7 has continually been placed in the back burner while we've patiently waited.

Fuck.

[Shannon]

https://subliminal-talk.com/Thread-Shann...#pid271046

As someone who has been checking the forum daily for AM7 updates, I can't adequately communicate how disappointed I am with this news. I mean that in the sincerest possible way. AM7 has continually been placed in the back burner while we've patiently waited.



Fuck.

Relax, my friend.  This amounts to pulling up the script of DMSI 5.1, detagging the FRM and bulding it.  It should take 2-3 days to get published, which I am using to force myself to stop thinking about AM7 so that I don't burn out and spend 2-3 months recovering first.

There is still a LONG way to go on AM7.  It needs a LOT of changes.  This won't even register.  But me burning out would.

[Diablojack00]

As someone who has been checking the forum daily for AM7 updates, I can't adequately communicate how disappointed I am with this news. I mean that in the sincerest possible way. AM7 has continually been placed in the back burner while we've patiently waited.



Fuck.

Relax, my friend.  This amounts to pulling up the script of DMSI 5.1, detagging the FRM and bulding it.  It should take 2-3 days to get published, which I am using to force myself to stop thinking about AM7 so that I don't burn out and spend 2-3 months recovering first.

There is still a LONG way to go on AM7.  It needs a LOT of changes.  This won't even register.  But me burning out would.

A new dmsi 5.2 sounds great to me. By the time I get straightened out it may be in 7G before I can try it lol

[ncbeareatingman]

Shannon on the up coming OFGS + EHAPRA + Plus Sub....#1) is that still on the docket of subliminal's to come forth, down the road?
#2 Can you say or give us any indication of what ELSE Might be included in that combo set of a Sub? A Very dynamic Sub, I might add.
#) Is it even a consideration still?

[Shannon]

Shannon on the up coming  OFGS + EHAPRA + Plus Sub....#1) is that still on the docket of subliminal's to come forth, down the road?

Yes. PTSD Recovery Aid v2 is in script development.

#2 Can you say or give us any indication of what ELSE Might be included in that combo set of a Sub? A Very dynamic Sub, I might add.

PRA v2 is going to include everything in v1 plus a number of different things that will help with various things being reported by my CPTSD testers.  Including, but not limited to:

• A module to help you fall asleep at night.
  
• A module to help you stay asleep at night.
  
• A module to physically re-wire and adjust your nervous system to cause extinction of trauma related pathways, and the development of alternate pathways that will be positive instead.
  
• Brain Optimizer.
  
• A module to add a new approach to helping relax and calm the traumatized parts while healing and recovery work is being done.
  
• A module to react to flare ups of anxiety and fear with intense relaxation and calm.
  
• Aura of Love with targetting and intensity modulation and optimization.
  
• And more I have not finished researching and or developing yet.
  

#) Is it even a consideration still?

Absolutely.  PRA is very important, but CPTSD is very complex and challenging.  I'm working on feedback from my CPTSD testers and doing research into how to make this program as effective as possible.

[ncbeareatingman]

Shannon on the up coming  OFGS + EHAPRA + Plus Sub....#1) is that still on the docket of subliminal's to come forth, down the road?

Yes. PTSD Recovery Aid v2 is in script development.

#2 Can you say or give us any indication of what ELSE Might be included in that combo set of a Sub? A Very dynamic Sub, I might add.

PRA v2 is going to include everything in v1 plus a number of different things that will help with various things being reported by my CPTSD testers.  Including, but not limited to:

• A module to help you fall asleep at night.
  
• A module to help you stay asleep at night.
  
• A module to physically re-wire and adjust your nervous system to cause extinction of trauma related pathways, and the development of alternate pathways that will be positive instead.
  
• Brain Optimizer.
  
• A module to add a new approach to helping relax and calm the traumatized parts while healing and recovery work is being done.
  
• A module to react to flare ups of anxiety and fear with intense relaxation and calm.
  
• Aura of Love with targetting and intensity modulation and optimization.
  
• And more I have not finished researching and or developing yet.
  

#) Is it even a consideration still?

Absolutely.  PRA is very important, but CPTSD is very complex and challenging.  I'm working on feedback from my CPTSD testers and doing research into how to make this program as effective as possible.

OMG!! This will be a must have program!!
Talk about out doing yourself Shannon!! Wow!! Definitely A must have !!!