Martial Arts

[SantaRich]

Andrew,

I was wondering if there would be a way to involve the internal martial arts in a sub. I know wing chun is more internal, but also styles like aikido,bagua zhang, xing yi, and tai chi off the top of my head. Also what is your understanding of the softer arts from a physiological perspective. I have never actually studied any of the above arts, in a martial way, but I did learn a qi gong form that has tai chi movements in it, and there is alot more than meets the eye, I am sure the same of wing chun.
Also wondering if you have heard of or read any of peter ralston's books. And it was said that nobody ever beat chen man ching in a fight, even though he didn't like to fight and only studied tai chi for the health benefits.

Hi SantaRich,

Unfortunately I do not know the answer to that. I am no longer involved in "internal" martial arts, although I think even making a distinction between internal and external is inappropriate. As far as a "martial" art, I have not yet seen sufficient evidence of things such as Tai Chi working as real life self defense. I do respect these arts as a method of self improvement and enhancing health. However, in this day and age with the advent of video and skepticism, extraordinary claims require hard proof. Many martial arts were watered down into sports, and lost their reputation as a useful form of self defense. All martial arts now in a way must re-prove themselves or adapt if they want to stand the test of time. So while I see it entirely possibly chen man ching was undefeated, evidence of the past is not so valid to todays society-including myself. It's also likely the case his tai-chi, is different than most tai-chi, and the artist himself could have been incredible regardless of art practiced on paper.

I do know that, during my early training thinking of concepts such as Qi helped during training. Later I found that these visualizations made no difference once I learned fine motor control, strike speed, and reading an opponents intentions, force or next move. Am I using Qi? I suppose if I am or am not, I wouldn't know. I am able to strike at a speed that only one instructor from any martial art I've studied under was ever able to block (of course this was after I got fine control over muscle bursts. In a physiology sense, I wonder if it is just raising the action potential higher and higher-almost twitching before contracting, causes a huge burst. You can feel the energy just waiting to explode once you learn to control it. I suppose some call this Qi.). Wing Chun when examined closely, is an extremely scientific art with mathematical reasoning and in depth study of mechanical advantage behind every programmed response. There are Wing Chun practitioners I've found extremely talented who say they use or believe in Qi. I've also found those that are extremely talented that do not. To me internal and external is only a differentiation applied in the mind, there is only one martial art and thats of the human body-with unique variances among body types. External cannot exist without internal, and vice versa. Focusing on just one, is limiting ones self, as I would say a sport karate limits themselves, as well as a strict aikido practitioner limits themselves as badly as the karateka. I have slapped aikido teachers around, because they could not deal with a balanced and rooted attack, nor were they ever conditioned to take a hit. I fear for their students if they actually have to use their knowledge to defend themselves, both the typical karateka and aikido are incomplete in their training. This is why MMA started, however it is not the "solution". MMA in general, has become focused on sport, and is brutish and arrogant as its founders. "MMA" is like a new martial art, and over time it will mature into different branches and go through the same process all martial arts have. Yes, there are complete classic martial arts by the way. Judo used to be complete including strikes, tons of groundwork, etc. Some forms of Karate are complete. Hapkido seems fairly complete. Ninpo is complete but it is very cult like. Sport, modern law and the advent of the gun is what caused every martial art to deteriorate, and since open bloody violent challenges and tournaments are no longer legal as they were in ancient china...I'm afraid the only true way to know is through science, video documentation, law enforcement studies (German S.E.K. use Wing Chun, don't know if its the standard but there's plenty of videos of them practicing it...), etc.

Either that, or believe. That used to be enough for me. As much as I want to simply believe in ancient masters, superhuman powers and extraordinary feats, I fail to see how they are not just as exaggerated as the myths of greece. If not, proof...hard proof.

To sum everything up, I don't know how a subliminal could help on an internal art but I've explained my thoughts on it. Maybe Shannon and Benjamin would have some insights.

Hi Andrew,

thanks for your response, it definitely made me think, reflect and ponder.

I don't blame you for needing proof, but unfortunately like anything spiritual or religious, there is no proof I could show you. I will attempt to describe some of my thoughts and experiences in concern to what I am talking about. Now mind you, my martial experience is limited, most I have had recently was about a year and a half ago training with some guys I know in kali, escrima, some wing chun they picked up in books and I think it was tiger claw he had studied. But again, I am not confident in martial my abilities.

But in terms of the qi, or chi kung, I know it is a real.....consciousness, experience, whatever one would want to call it. As said by someone wiser than me, (the tao that can be told is not the eternal tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal name). It is not so much a concept or visualization as it is a state of awareness or feeling. I remember after one practice sitting down afterwards, physically pushed, not in a I will be sore tomorrow way, but could feel the energy coursing through my body. How would I describe the energy feeling, imagine your body as house and a draft blowing through the house, that is what it felt like. Now for that practice I never did any visualizations. It is not something that the conscious mind can understand, the woman I learned that form from said that chi is kind of shy, you will experience it when you are not looking for it. Now while I agree you cannot truly separate external from internal arts, they go about getting you to the same place differently. To my knowledge there is no other martial art that has you walking the circle like in bagua zhang, or moving extremely slow as in tai chi. Now the true purpose of those practices are to move you into that heightened state of awareness.

In my opinion, what I would consider chi(qi) to be would be a working together of body, mind, and soul. To a very high degree. And chi (qi) is just one name for it, prana, the great spirit, a name is a name, to some degree.

So in short, to me it, or something exists, I am not trying to change anyone's mind or make anyone believe me, but I would rather live in a world that still has magic in it, where I can't explain everything.

If you want to know more, or read or watch who resonates with me in terms of more internal that physical, I recommend Peter Ralston and B.K. Frantzis.

And what are the benefits, think of the more physical martial arts killing a bull by one punch, whereas more internal slapping instead of punching. Is it possible? Is it possible to kill a bull with one punch? But there is so much more to it than that!

If any of that makes any sense