Shannon how can I convince someone of subliminals?

[wolverine_i_am]

I've told all my friends about what I'm using. The truth is, I've stopped caring any longer. None of them are open-minded enough to wanna try it out.

[Raykon]

I personally don't think you should force your friend into it , because then your friend won't take responsibility and blame you for the resistance. I have a person in my life who knows beyond a reasonable doubt that subliminals work and yet she's resistant. Why ? It goes on to spiritual topics , which may break rules so I will stop there. You can't change people they have to want to do it themselves. You already introduced your friend to the idea , when he's ready or she's ready they will take action.

I would like you to talk about the spiritual aspect if you could message me I'd appreciate the discussion. I'm very in tune with my spiritual side as well and am very intelligent in that aspect.

[Raykon]

My friend's argument is that he read in his psychology class that Subliminals don't work.

I know they work but I want to prove this to him so he starts buyingyour products.

Shannon can you please explain how your subliminals work?

I remember reading something a big post from shannon that explained it quite well but i cant find it.

I appreciate your enthusiasm for my products.

Go ask him... How long was it a "scientifically known fact" that the Earth is flat? Or that heavier than air flight is impossible? Or that going to the moon is impossible? Or that communication around the world in less than a second is impossible? Or that machines thinking is impossible? Or that the Earth is the center of the solar system? Or any of a thousand other "facts" that have been dis-proven over the centuries, after the "experts" stated that they were true?

If you look at the history of science, you will see this pattern:

X is accepted as a fact.

Someone comes along and shows that X is false.

Science first ignores them, then laughs at them (discredit), then attacks them (usually destroys their career), and then X is discarded as false and their work is accepted - usually after it is too late for them to benefit from it.

The science of Psychology as a whole does not believe that subliminals work, even though there are plenty of studies that show that they do, and plenty of evidence otherwise that shows that they do as well. The key, as I have said before, is that they must be scripted properly, built properly and used properly. Not many people in the world know how to do all three of those things, if they know how to do any of them.

Psychology's current position on subliminals not working primarily boils down to two things. First, the subconscious is not really well enough understood for experiments to be crafted that make sense or to have the results be understood correctly, and second, there is a vested interest at play in "not believing that subliminals work". You would laugh at a lot of the experiments that have been done that "prove" that subliminals don't work. Many of them are relatively obvious efforts to prove it doesn't work instead of find the truth, and many of them are so badly crafted that even a non-scientist could see the flaws in them.

Over time, probably the next few decades, this will change and subliminals will be accepted and even become mainstream. But at the current time, the only thing you are going to be able to do is suggest one of our free programs to him. If he's interested he'll try it; if he's not, he won't. Proving it to him is up to him, not you. As has been said, some people are open to the idea, and some are not.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

You've honestly changed my life. I wish I could meet you one day. I know a bit of your story & how you came about to create subliminals ( to cure your own social anxiety, right?)

Anyways. I really respect the fact you talk to your customers and share information with us and have a business philosophy that isn't detrimental to the world unlike allot of other capitalist business men. You're a good dude. Super excited to try Daosi and more of your products.

Please no matter what you do or who influences you in the future, don't sell out. You're products NEED to get into the hands of the general population. America and the generation is in a state of crises with all the negative influencing that's going on and your subliminals are one of the only ways to combat and reverse the negative influencing from media and other people and fluoride.

[Shannon]

My friend's argument is that he read in his psychology class that Subliminals don't work.

I know they work but I want to prove this to him so he starts buyingyour products.

Shannon can you please explain how your subliminals work?

I remember reading something a big post from shannon that explained it quite well but i cant find it.

I appreciate your enthusiasm for my products.

Go ask him... How long was it a "scientifically known fact" that the Earth is flat? Or that heavier than air flight is impossible? Or that going to the moon is impossible? Or that communication around the world in less than a second is impossible? Or that machines thinking is impossible? Or that the Earth is the center of the solar system? Or any of a thousand other "facts" that have been dis-proven over the centuries, after the "experts" stated that they were true?

If you look at the history of science, you will see this pattern:

X is accepted as a fact.

Someone comes along and shows that X is false.

Science first ignores them, then laughs at them (discredit), then attacks them (usually destroys their career), and then X is discarded as false and their work is accepted - usually after it is too late for them to benefit from it.

The science of Psychology as a whole does not believe that subliminals work, even though there are plenty of studies that show that they do, and plenty of evidence otherwise that shows that they do as well. The key, as I have said before, is that they must be scripted properly, built properly and used properly. Not many people in the world know how to do all three of those things, if they know how to do any of them.

Psychology's current position on subliminals not working primarily boils down to two things. First, the subconscious is not really well enough understood for experiments to be crafted that make sense or to have the results be understood correctly, and second, there is a vested interest at play in "not believing that subliminals work". You would laugh at a lot of the experiments that have been done that "prove" that subliminals don't work. Many of them are relatively obvious efforts to prove it doesn't work instead of find the truth, and many of them are so badly crafted that even a non-scientist could see the flaws in them.

Over time, probably the next few decades, this will change and subliminals will be accepted and even become mainstream. But at the current time, the only thing you are going to be able to do is suggest one of our free programs to him. If he's interested he'll try it; if he's not, he won't. Proving it to him is up to him, not you. As has been said, some people are open to the idea, and some are not.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

You've honestly changed my life. I wish I could meet you one day. I know a bit of your story & how you came about to create subliminals ( to cure your own social anxiety, right?)

Anyways. I really respect the fact you talk to your customers and share information with us and have a business philosophy that isn't detrimental to the world unlike allot of other capitalist business men. You're a good dude. Super excited to try Daosi and more of your products.

Please no matter what you do or who influences you in the future, don't sell out. You're products NEED to get into the hands of the general population. America and the generation is in a state of crises with all the negative influencing that's going on and your subliminals are one of the only ways to combat and reverse the negative influencing from media and other people and fluoride.

It would seem that changing lives is what I am here for. I wasn't aware that that was my purpose when I started working in this field, but the further I go, the more I realize that I'm here to bring about a change that's time has come, and to improve the lives of people and hopefully the world as a whole along the way and as a result.

I'm sure one day a lot of you will have the opportunity to meet me.

I actually started doing subliminals to solve a problem I had. What I was creating for mind programming was working, but it was very annoying, and I was not going to be able to keep selling it if I did not solve that problem. Subliminals solved that problem. The ASC was the first ultrasonic subliminal I created for myself, not because I needed to overcome social anxiety (although I did need to), but because that seemed like the most useful goal to prove to myself how well the program and ultrasonic technology was working. I was actually trying to create subliminals because I had people asking me for help with solving specific problems, and they saw that I was solving them for myself with these mind programs I was creating. But, they were audible, and very annoying to listen to. Subliminalizing them solved the problem and allowed me to make a product people wanted, which was not offputting.

When it comes to business, it has always seemed to me that ultimately, the lifeblood of a business is money, because a business is designed to create a profit. Customers, then, are the heart of the business, because it is they who pump the blood and keep the business alive. Nowadays, businesses get so big that they forget that. Eventually, those businesses will self destruct as a natural consequence.

And of course, if we are going to fix some of the problems we see around us, it helps to have money to do it with. Really it's just a matter of seeing the big picture instead of losing sight of everything but the bottom line. The bigger picture is where you can see that focusing on improving the whole makes the bottom line better, and everything else too.

I'm interested in creating a successful business without selling out. Becoming a billionaire without selling out. Showing the world that business can succeed and flourish, without selling out. So I don't think you have to worry about that.

[Raykon]

I really appreciate all the great responses to my questions today. I have so many more things to ask you but I value your time & know your busy. Thanks again & know if there is anything I can do to help you with your quest & the growth of your company, I am more then willing to get involved.

[Shannon]

When the time comes, I'll take you up on that. Thank you.

[InTheZone]

Hey guys,

I thought I would weight in since I'm actually working in a psychology lab right now about the general consensus on subliminal work in psychology. We actually use subliminal priming in experiments and it is widely accepted that subliminal priming does work. In the lab we actually use visual subliminal priming. We also use supraliminal priming because it is much easier to setup than subliminal priming. One of the studies conducted by my mentor was based on supraliminal and subliminal priming and he found that he could detect effects even a week after exposure. I asked him if he ever considered auditory subliminal priming and he told me to look at the research and see what it says. The research on auditory subliminal priming had a big study that came out and found that auditory subliminal priming worked but then there were multiple studies that followed it up that were unable to replicate the results. The effects were mostly talked away as placebo. They used the commercial subliminal audios that existed at the time and would change the labels on the tapes and found that what the label said was a much better predictor of the effects observed rather than what was supposed to be on the tape.

I spent a lot of time looking at the studies and the general consensus I found was that they really have no idea how to produce them. If a study was made based on auditory subliminal messages and showed effects then it would support the idea that they are effective. I could probably extend the findings of my mentor's research using auditory subliminal messages pretty easily and get something published if I knew how to create them correctly. I just haven't spent much time doing research on how to create them. Shannon mentioned a long time ago that the Erickson was a good place to start on learning how to create them. I've just been really busy trying to finish the current study that I'm working on.

[Shannon]

Hey guys,

I thought I would weight in since I'm actually working in a psychology lab right now about the general consensus on subliminal work in psychology. We actually use subliminal priming in experiments and it is widely accepted that subliminal priming does work. In the lab we actually use visual subliminal priming. We also use supraliminal priming because it is much easier to setup than subliminal priming. One of the studies conducted by my mentor was based on supraliminal and subliminal priming and he found that he could detect effects even a week after exposure. I asked him if he ever considered auditory subliminal priming and he told me to look at the research and see what it says. The research on auditory subliminal priming had a big study that came out and found that auditory subliminal priming worked but then there were multiple studies that followed it up that were unable to replicate the results. The effects were mostly talked away as placebo. They used the commercial subliminal audios that existed at the time and would change the labels on the tapes and found that what the label said was a much better predictor of the effects observed rather than what was supposed to be on the tape.

I spent a lot of time looking at the studies and the general consensus I found was that they really have no idea how to produce them. If a study was made based on auditory subliminal messages and showed effects then it would support the idea that they are effective. I could probably extend the findings of my mentor's research using auditory subliminal messages pretty easily and get something published if I knew how to create them correctly. I just haven't spent much time doing research on how to create them. Shannon mentioned a long time ago that the Erickson was a good place to start on learning how to create them. I've just been really busy trying to finish the current study that I'm working on.

Erickson is a good place to start learning about hypnosis, in my opinion. His work is complex, but brilliant.

I am getting to the point that it should be relatively easy to create subliminals that can demonstrably create measurable and repeatable shifts in body and mind.

It is possible to create a sleep induction subliminal in 5.5G that I am confident would do just as well putting you to sleep while it was labeled it an awakener. Likewise, that subliminal could be shown with an EEG to have a definite, repeatable effect on brainwave states. Various autonomic adjustments can also be made; I have demonstrated repeatedly the ability to affect brainwave states for various purposes, induce a definitive increase in vaginal lubrication, increase body temperature, affect nasal congestion, affect heart rate, and other such easily measurable functions. It sounds like we might be in good to work together on this.

[InTheZone]

Erickson is a good place to start learning about hypnosis, in my opinion. His work is complex, but brilliant.

I am getting to the point that it should be relatively easy to create subliminals that can demonstrably create measurable and repeatable shifts in body and mind.

It is possible to create a sleep induction subliminal in 5.5G that I am confident would do just as well putting you to sleep while it was labeled it an awakener. Likewise, that subliminal could be shown with an EEG to have a definite, repeatable effect on brainwave states. Various autonomic adjustments can also be made; I have demonstrated repeatedly the ability to affect brainwave states for various purposes, induce a definitive increase in vaginal lubrication, increase body temperature, affect nasal congestion, affect heart rate, and other such easily measurable functions. It sounds like we might be in good to work together on this.

Definitely, I'm currently working in the social psychology lab but I know a bunch of professors in cognitive psychology which would be a good fit for auditory subliminal work on biological responses. In my last meeting it was mentioned that we have access to a basic biometric lab where we can measure heart rate and some other basic biological markers. I have no question that you could show an effect but the real question is how much of your work are you willing to expose? In order for this to really shake things up in the scientific community they would have to be able to replicate the results outside our lab. It would be best if we are able to show some sort of effect in 30 - 60 minutes. Anything longer than that is difficult and expensive to get participation.

[Shannon]

Erickson is a good place to start learning about hypnosis, in my opinion. His work is complex, but brilliant.

I am getting to the point that it should be relatively easy to create subliminals that can demonstrably create measurable and repeatable shifts in body and mind.

It is possible to create a sleep induction subliminal in 5.5G that I am confident would do just as well putting you to sleep while it was labeled it an awakener. Likewise, that subliminal could be shown with an EEG to have a definite, repeatable effect on brainwave states. Various autonomic adjustments can also be made; I have demonstrated repeatedly the ability to affect brainwave states for various purposes, induce a definitive increase in vaginal lubrication, increase body temperature, affect nasal congestion, affect heart rate, and other such easily measurable functions. It sounds like we might be in good to work together on this.

Definitely, I'm currently working in the social psychology lab but I know a bunch of professors in cognitive psychology which would be a good fit for auditory subliminal work on biological responses. In my last meeting it was mentioned that we have access to a basic biometric lab where we can measure heart rate and some other basic biological markers. I have no question that you could show an effect but the real question is how much of your work are you willing to expose? In order for this to really shake things up in the scientific community they would have to be able to replicate the results outside our lab. It would be best if we are able to show some sort of effect in 30 - 60 minutes. Anything longer than that is difficult and expensive to get participation.

I am confident I can repeatably and reliably achieve measurable results in considerably less time than 30 to 60 minutes. However, I have the issue that what I am doing is very dangerous in the wrong hands. I can't be responsible for developing this and then seeing it used the wrong way. So I fully understand that it is best for multiple independent sources to be able to recreate the script/subliminal from the ground up and test, but the risk of misuse by various parties is unacceptable for me on that.

They of course could all test a hashed subliminal that I create, in whatever conditions, but I can't reveal how I do this.

[InTheZone]

I am confident I can repeatably and reliably achieve measurable results in considerably less time than 30 to 60 minutes. However, I have the issue that what I am doing is very dangerous in the wrong hands. I can't be responsible for developing this and then seeing it used the wrong way. So I fully understand that it is best for multiple independent sources to be able to recreate the script/subliminal from the ground up and test, but the risk of misuse by various parties is unacceptable for me on that.

They of course could all test a hashed subliminal that I create, in whatever conditions, but I can't reveal how I do this.

I agree that what you are working with now is dangerous in the wrong hands but I was wondering if you could create something in a 3g format which would be much less powerful than what you are working on now and create an effect that could be observed? We can't really publish anything unless we provide a procedure that would allow someone else to replicate the results. It would just end up like the current literature which is one study that shows an effect and a bunch of studies that can't replicate the results.

[Raykon]

I am confident I can repeatably and reliably achieve measurable results in considerably less time than 30 to 60 minutes. However, I have the issue that what I am doing is very dangerous in the wrong hands. I can't be responsible for developing this and then seeing it used the wrong way. So I fully understand that it is best for multiple independent sources to be able to recreate the script/subliminal from the ground up and test, but the risk of misuse by various parties is unacceptable for me on that.

They of course could all test a hashed subliminal that I create, in whatever conditions, but I can't reveal how I do this.

I agree that what you are working with now is dangerous in the wrong hands but I was wondering if you could create something in a 3g format which would be much less powerful than what you are working on now and create an effect that could be observed? We can't really publish anything unless we provide a procedure that would allow someone else to replicate the results. It would just end up like the current literature which is one study that shows an effect and a bunch of studies that can't replicate the results.

In my opinion I think Shannon is right that it's best to avoid a situation in where someone can jeopardize his business & use this technology for evil.

I also think it's best for this to stay underground for now & spread naturally. I don't think it being mainstream now would be the best idea because if the gov't wants they will find a way to monopolize or ban subliminals all together. If they can ban collecting rainwater they can ban anything.

God forbid that happens & knock on wood.

[InTheZone]

In my opinion I think Shannon is right that it's best to avoid a situation in where someone can jeopardize his business & use this technology for evil.

I also think it's best for this to stay underground for now & spread naturally. I don't think it being mainstream now would be the best idea because if the gov't wants they will find a way to monopolize or ban subliminals all together. If they can ban collecting rainwater they can ban anything.

God forbid that happens & knock on wood.

If we showed an effect with subliminal audio it would probably spawn a bunch of new research in that area and might give that technology away to all of his competitors as well. My guess is that his competitors don't read the research anyways but if he used it for advertisement then it would probably tip them off. I was thinking about suggesting a study conducted online in which he could produce a series of subliminals that showed a variety of psychological effects that we could measure through online surveys. The advantage of this is that he wouldn't have to give any technology away. The disadvantage is that there would not be as much scientific credibility to such a study. I think he could get the participants from the forum and we could do a double blind study in which nobody knows which subliminal they are getting so there would be no way to have a placebo effect. It would be a fun study to run.

[Shannon]

I am confident I can repeatably and reliably achieve measurable results in considerably less time than 30 to 60 minutes. However, I have the issue that what I am doing is very dangerous in the wrong hands. I can't be responsible for developing this and then seeing it used the wrong way. So I fully understand that it is best for multiple independent sources to be able to recreate the script/subliminal from the ground up and test, but the risk of misuse by various parties is unacceptable for me on that.

They of course could all test a hashed subliminal that I create, in whatever conditions, but I can't reveal how I do this.

I agree that what you are working with now is dangerous in the wrong hands but I was wondering if you could create something in a 3g format which would be much less powerful than what you are working on now and create an effect that could be observed? We can't really publish anything unless we provide a procedure that would allow someone else to replicate the results. It would just end up like the current literature which is one study that shows an effect and a bunch of studies that can't replicate the results.

3G or not, I can't give the scripting that accomplishes the things that are dangerous in the wrong hands. Besides, 3G would be a LOT slower and harder to observe results from.

But, I can help with scripting simple things that could be tested. For example, you might be able to get repeatable measurable results using very simple statements, such as:

I now safely increase my heart rate.

You might even get measurable results with,

I now safely increase my heart rate to X beats per minute.

You can give direct specific suggestions like this, and get results - but this would be 1G or 2G technology, and therefore not very powerful at all. The issue we come back to is, to make the really powerful, really obvious, really capable stuff, I can't give you the script or the scripting techniques. Showing others how I do this is suicide from a business perspective, and almost certainly immediately puts this knowledge into the wrong hands. The wrong hands have their hands in every cookie jar.

I can, however, give you a freely distributable subliminal audio to test, and a hash value to prove it is unaltered. At that point, the subliminal could be experimented with by various different labs in various places according to a specified set of instructions, with the hash proving it is the same audio, and the results thereby being independently verified.

If you're interested in either or both methods, I can certainly help.