Subliminal Talk

(07-13-2017, 01:03 AM)wolverine_i_am Wrote: [ -> ]Don't do MM. It's an outdated ineffective system that nobody uses anymore. The seduction community has long evolved from that.

I disagree to that statement. There is a FB group with over 3500 members that all swear by MM.

Marketers wants you to believe that there are new technologies in seduction but there isn't very much that have changed. They do it because they want to release new products over and over and sell the same thing again and again.

The only evolution that I have seen was that many years ago, there was a lot of emphasis on canned material that I have always hated vs today where more emphasis is made on inner game and natural game.

but MM isn't about that. It is a seduction framework to holds you by the hand in the process of seduction from meeting to sex. It leverages psychology and Influence principles (You know Cialdini? Another AMAZING book to read and master) to get you the goal that you want.

I have 3 last things to say.

1. If you say that it is not good. At least tell what you think is good...
2. My best advice to anyone reading this thread. The best judge is yourself. The freaking book is only $10. I have bought expensive Home Study kit from gurus only to find out after having read MM that they were just pale imitations of the ORIGINAL. Invest $10 and make your own mind on the topic.

I bought the book. I'm always looking to improve my game. I'll be harsh if it doesn't help however.

Hahaha Mystery Method is BY FAR one of the worst things you can do and will fuck you up, make you overanaylze way more. It's all about overcomplicating things massively, I once watched one of his dvd's for like 10 minutes and it did my head in with his 1000s of little steps.

He's basically like "ok to kiss a girl you need to take these 52 steps, move closer, move a little closer, take another step, look at her, cough, take a few more steps, now you're close to her, move your lips in a millimetre, and another millemetra then sit your lips on her lips, move your tongue and your upper lip, move your lower lip and put it against her lips."

Fuck that.

$10 is a complete waste of money for his crap, pretty expensive toilet paper.

If you want more then there's also the classic book 'the game' that shows how fucked up mystery is.

With your tendency to already overanaylze everything Sarge, mystery method especially will make things worse for you.

(07-13-2017, 05:24 PM)Benjamin Wrote: [ -> ]Hahaha Mystery Method is BY FAR one of the worst things you can do and will **** you up, make you overanaylze way more. It's all about overcomplicating things massively, I once watched one of his dvd's for like 10 minutes and it did my head in with his 1000s of little steps.

He's basically like "ok to kiss a girl you need to take these 52 steps, move closer, move a little closer, take another step, look at her, cough, take a few more steps, now you're close to her, move your lips in a millimetre, and another millemetra then sit your lips on her lips, move your tongue and your upper lip, move your lower lip and put it against her lips."

**** that.

$10 is a complete waste of money for his crap, pretty expensive toilet paper.

If you want more then there's also the classic book 'the game' that shows how ***** up mystery is.

With your tendency to already overanaylze everything Sarge, mystery method especially will make things worse for you.

Well that sucks. Believe it or not, I'm actually looking to simplify things for myself. All the Analysing is so that I can come up with some simple "rules of thumb"

Rules of thumb like "always make the conversation about the girl" easy to remember, flexible, can be used however fits your personal style, and (most importantly) WORKS.

I was actually thinking about buying "The Game" is it any good? Or are you saying it's just as bad as MM?

The game is more a story about their experiences not a method, but it will likely turn you off pua when you see how fucked up they are. It was interesting but didn't really teach me anything good, it actually disgusted me how fucked up some of them were.

As in suicidal, put in mental homes, etc.

(07-13-2017, 05:53 PM)Benjamin Wrote: [ -> ]The game is more a story about their experiences not a method, but it will likely turn you off pua when you see how ***** up they are. It was interesting but didn't really teach me anything good, it actually disgusted me how ***** up some of them were.

As in suicidal, put in mental homes, etc.

Lol. Suicidal ain't nothing these days. Been there myself actually.

I get you tho.

I've read Mystery's books back in the days. So I know what they teach. When I started game, it was nothing like the books described. It's too technical and turns you into a mindless lying robot. I met a guy who swore by MM too. He was a fucked up individual. If you wanna improve your lifestyle and mindsets, Mystery is definitely the last person I'd take advice from. He has so much bs ideas and things that you aren't supposed to do, yet I proved many of them wrong.

Most who used to do MM back in the day, they've long evolved from that by now.

Oh yeah. Knew another guy practices that style. He is a full on validation seeker. Never tells the truth. Always hides behind a fascade of a fake character. Obsessed with counting his lays. He is always down when he gets rejection or flakes. Has low self esteem and brags a lot by showing people pics of his pick ups. He is the perfect example of a pua. You don't wanna become like these guys.

(07-13-2017, 05:24 PM)Benjamin Wrote: [ -> ]Hahaha Mystery Method is BY FAR one of the worst things you can do and will **** you up, make you overanaylze way more. It's all about overcomplicating things massively, I once watched one of his dvd's for like 10 minutes and it did my head in with his 1000s of little steps.

He's basically like "ok to kiss a girl you need to take these 52 steps, move closer, move a little closer, take another step, look at her, cough, take a few more steps, now you're close to her, move your lips in a millimetre, and another millemetra then sit your lips on her lips, move your tongue and your upper lip, move your lower lip and put it against her lips."

**** that.

$10 is a complete waste of money for his crap, pretty expensive toilet paper.

If you want more then there's also the classic book 'the game' that shows how ***** up mystery is.

With your tendency to already overanaylze everything Sarge, mystery method especially will make things worse for you.

No idea what you are talking about with your 1000 steps example. That is not what I have seen at all.

Attacking the merit of the work based on the personal issues the guy have isn't something that should be done. You shouldn't mix both. Someone can be close to be crazy yet produce something marvelous.

Mystery has a very Cartesian spirit. This is paradoxical considering that seduction is essentially to induce emotions. What amaze me with his work is that he broke down seduction into a scientific model with steps and diagrams and so on.

IMHO, this is the most predictable method to get results. He broke the process into a science. Nobody can say that it doesn't work as it would be like saying that marketing and advertisement don't sell.

Salesmen have flowcharts that they follow and those who are good at following their charts, sells more. This is measurable and undeniable.

That being said, because it reads like an engineering textbook, I agree that there is risk to overanalyse or to stumble into details and minutia.

And also note that you need a minimum of charisma, social intelligence and skills to make it work. I'm assuming that by being a DMSI user, you qualify.

There is probably a good and a bad way to read the book. The good way is probably to read it cover to cover to get the big picture. Maybe take notes about few interesting snippet such as the 3 second rule. then forget about it go in the field and have fun.

And once and only once you collected referential experience, you should return to the method and be stunned about how accurate it is with your experience and now focus on few elements that you dont master yet. But at this point you should already have results. Mastering every aspects of the method is for advanced users.

That being said, a lot of the text is to cover cornerstones and as a DMSI user, there will be a lot of shortcuts making way easier.

Demonstrating High Value and receiving IOIs should happen effortlessly... If you have those, the rest is easy. You don't need that much steps at all...

(07-13-2017, 09:47 PM)wolverine_i_am Wrote: [ -> ]Oh yeah. Knew another guy practices that style. He is a full on validation seeker. Never tells the truth. Always hides behind a fascade of a fake character. Obsessed with counting his lays. He is always down when he gets rejection or flakes. Has low self esteem and brags a lot by showing people pics of his pick ups. He is the perfect example of a pua. You don't wanna become like these guys.

So if I get it right what you say is that you know someone that isn't someone that you would want to model that is using the method. Hence the method isn't good. Is that what you are saying?

Like there was a car accident. Car are dangerous, we shouldn't use cars

You have the right to not like the method and I respect your preference but imho, you shouldn't bash it.

And, we still don't know what you prefer and consider a superior teaching...

(07-13-2017, 10:01 PM)lano1106 Wrote: [ -> ]Salesmen have flowcharts that they follow and those who are good at following their charts, sells more. This is measurable and undeniable.

Umm... I'm in sales and I actually don't use flowcharts, although I DO have a script that I made from scratch, tweaked, and it's a staple.

You can use it on the same people multiple times and they won't turn it down or think you're a robot.

It's more about tonality than what you're saying.

Which is why with things like MM you run the risk of not understanding things if it's content-heavy.

The best sales advice I ever got was about tonality and how you need to come across. The words are irrelevant.

If PU had that it'd be much more effective, but it doesn't (that I've noticed).

The sales tapes I watch are from a guy who is VERY good at sales. Not as in he's good at sales because he sold the tapes, no, he was good at sales WAY before making the tapes. He made the tapes because he was thrown in prison for his selling ability. He used it to sell fraudulent stocks. You might know him as "The Wolf of Wall Street" (Jordan Belfort)

Seriously, if there was a pick up program comparible to Belfort's "Straight Line of Persuasion" (the tapes I mentioned) pick up would be easy as pie.

I owe ALL my sales success to the straight line, it's THAT powerful. EDIT: Inconceivablezen reminded me that he was the one who showed me Straight Line. I wasn't trying to slight you Zen, I literally did not remember! Thank you for reminding me! Much respect bro!

EDIT: btw, I agree with lano, just because you don't like the guy, if his method works, it works. Get over yourself.

(07-13-2017, 10:29 PM)SargeMaximus Wrote: [ -> ]If PU had that it'd be much more effective, but it doesn't (that I've noticed).

The sales tapes I watch are from a guy who is VERY good at sales. Not as in he's good at sales because he sold the tapes, no, he was good at sales WAY before making the tapes. He made the tapes because he was thrown in prison for his selling ability. He used it to sell fraudulent stocks. You might know him as "The Wolf of Wall Street" (Jordan Belfort)

Seriously, if there was a pick up program comparible to Belfort's "Straight Line of Persuasion" (the tapes I mentioned) pick up would be easy as pie.

I owe ALL my sales success to the straight line, it's THAT powerful. EDIT: Inconceivablezen reminded me that he was the one who showed me Straight Line. I wasn't trying to slight you Zen, I literally did not remember! Thank you for reminding me! Much respect bro!

EDIT: btw, I agree with lano, just because you don't like the guy, if his method works, it works. Get over yourself.

Have you learned the principles behind SLP that makes it persuasive? If so, then you could change this persuasion over to seduction in Specific cases.

Mystery Method was genius at its time. Nothing anyone can say about that, but it came from a guy who was unable to connect with women, knew nothing about their psychology and who was suicidal at the time he came up with it. He has gone in and out of mental houses for a long time.

If one were to go to him (Mystery) for teaching (which I wouldn't recommend) you have to read into the context.

For example - Negging
A LOT of people tried this out after reading "The Game".
By saying a negative thing about a girl they would get slightly more interest in you? - Well, most guys who tried this removed the context and thought it would work on every girl possible. Mystery and the PUA guys negged girls who were in High-end clubs, celebrities and such. They were confident enough to know they deserved this and that. But your high-school crush likely didn't have the same confidence as these girls, hence your "negging technique" failed.

(07-14-2017, 01:45 AM)ReeZoX Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-13-2017, 10:29 PM)SargeMaximus Wrote: [ -> ]If PU had that it'd be much more effective, but it doesn't (that I've noticed).

The sales tapes I watch are from a guy who is VERY good at sales. Not as in he's good at sales because he sold the tapes, no, he was good at sales WAY before making the tapes. He made the tapes because he was thrown in prison for his selling ability. He used it to sell fraudulent stocks. You might know him as "The Wolf of Wall Street" (Jordan Belfort)

Seriously, if there was a pick up program comparible to Belfort's "Straight Line of Persuasion" (the tapes I mentioned) pick up would be easy as pie.

I owe ALL my sales success to the straight line, it's THAT powerful. EDIT: Inconceivablezen reminded me that he was the one who showed me Straight Line. I wasn't trying to slight you Zen, I literally did not remember! Thank you for reminding me! Much respect bro!

EDIT: btw, I agree with lano, just because you don't like the guy, if his method works, it works. Get over yourself.

Have you learned the principles behind SLP that makes it persuasive? If so, then you could change this persuasion over to seduction in Specific cases.

I have tried. It doesn't seem to work.

I'm VERY good at straight line. Used it to sell lawn care and furnaces and nowadays to get leads. So I've used it in a variety of situations in sales.

However, with pick up, it's not so simple. Something's missing and I'm not sure what it is.

(07-14-2017, 01:45 AM)ReeZoX Wrote: [ -> ]Mystery Method was genius at its time. Nothing anyone can say about that, but it came from a guy who was unable to connect with women, knew nothing about their psychology and who was suicidal at the time he came up with it. He has gone in and out of mental houses for a long time.

If one were to go to him (Mystery) for teaching (which I wouldn't recommend) you have to read into the context.

For example - Negging
A LOT of people tried this out after reading "The Game".
By saying a negative thing about a girl they would get slightly more interest in you? - Well, most guys who tried this removed the context and thought it would work on every girl possible. Mystery and the PUA guys negged girls who were in High-end clubs, celebrities and such. They were confident enough to know they deserved this and that. But your high-school crush likely didn't have the same confidence as these girls, hence your "negging technique" failed.

Yeah negging isn't very good. Works on hot girls tho (sometimes. I used some on my hairdresser to take her down a notch), but mostly it just drives girls away. You gotta be savvy.

(07-14-2017, 03:27 AM)SargeMaximus Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah negging isn't very good. Works on hot girls tho (sometimes. I used some on my hairdresser to take her down a notch), but mostly it just drives girls away. You gotta be savvy.

If you change the term from negging to disqualifying, it's more appropriate for what the technique was supposed to do, and it's definitely working. You just need the right amount of calibration to use it, no matter if it's a "high-status woman" or not.

It's there to disqualify a woman, so she would perceive you as a higher status male. As she is "disqualified" from being your partner.

A funny clip where the guy is VERY GOOD at disqualifying is this one. This guy is damn alpha also. So if you want to look at something generally would be perceived as beta but is alpha, this is the shit
His disqualifier is between 1.50-2.05