Subliminal Talk

Former intellectual property rights paralegal here, worked on many of these cases on both sides.

There's only one legal way to give away your subliminals. You've gotta give away the original device (hard drive, mp3 player, etc.) that you downloaded 'em on AND you have to eliminate all instances of the file(s) on any other device(s) in your possession. Otherwise, the first sale doctrine won't protect you and you're committing copyright infringement by creating an unauthorized copy of the file. See ReDigi vs. Capitol Records. Interesting note: The MPAA lobbied to make this illegal back in like, 2005 or 2006.

Here's where U.S. law fails -- this wouldn't apply if IML sold its products on CDs. You could use the CD all you wanted and if you didn't make any copies, you could sell it later for whatever value you wanted. THAT would fall under the first sale doctrine. That's why computer games and software require CD keys and/or licenses. You can sell the physical media all you want, but check out the End User License Agreement when you install the game -- you're agreeing that the LICENSE to use the software is non-transferable. By selling the license, you're not breaking the law, but you are in breach of contract.

I worked on some cases where someone burned mp3s to CDs and sold / gave them away and they still ended up losing because they didn't delete the original files. That same thing would most likely apply here. Under fair use, you could burn your subs to CD for personal use. But, the moment you give the CD away, even if you've deleted the original files, you've still committed copyright infringement because it's a unauthorized copy of the original file -- meaning it's not illegal nor (arguably) unethical for that act to trigger copy protection.

And even after all that, there's nothing preventing IML from essentially creating an EULA specifying how the subs must be used -- and that's exactly what's happened here. That being said, the following is questionable:

"If you buy a copy of a program, and someone else is consistently using it while you are not being exposed, that is not fair use. A person other than the owner is getting value from the program, and that would trigger the copy protection."

My brother (also an attorney) bought my cousin Ultra Motivation or Ultra Success (one of 'em) sometime ago. He downloaded the files straight to a USB mp3 player (which means it never touched his hard drive) and gave it to him. I know this because I watched him do it. He was just about to invest in BASE 5g. Does this mean he'll be triggered by this very ominous copy protection?

(12-04-2015, 11:56 PM)chaosvrgn Wrote: [ -> ]My brother (also an attorney) bought my cousin Ultra Motivation or Ultra Success (one of 'em) sometime ago. He downloaded the files straight to a USB mp3 player (which means it never touched his hard drive) and gave it to him. I know this because I watched him do it. He was just about to invest in BASE 5g. Does this mean he'll be triggered by this very ominous copy protection?

If you trigger copy protection on one sub, you trigger it on all subs. So if you pirate sub1 and legally buy sub2 after that, you will trigger copy protection on both unless you pay for the first one.

Quick question @chaosvrgn - I may be remembering completely wrong, but wasn't there some pending litigation against Microsoft or some similar big tech company regarding "draconian" EULAs that would also determine whether or not "licenses" were covered under first sale doctrine?

Also, to show you all how ridiculous the idea that being gifted subs from IML is considered piracy is, consider the following:

If one were to crank up this nonsense idea to the extreme, the mere fact that Shannon retains the original copy of everything would mean that there's always at least one other person in possession of a given program. This alone could trigger the copy protection if one were to truly believe that being given a sub as a gift is piracy.

In other words, to follow the letter of the law do what chaosvrgn suggests if that is indeed the correct lawful procedure for such. To follow the spirit, the intended recipient (whether it's the original buyer or the recipient of a gift from that buyer) should be the only one in possession of a particular purchase (i.e. "has" the "only purchased copy") and that should be enough to satisfy the protections.

Stop running around like headless chickens with your "OMG MY BROTHER IN THE OTHER ROOM CAN TOTALLY HEAR MY SUB THAT I'M PLAYING ON THE STEREO IN MY ROOM WITH AWESOME SPEAKERS, WILL THAT TRIGGER COPY PROTECTION?!?!?!?" and similar nonsense like that. If I could put into words why that's nonsense I would do so, but for now seeing posts like this fill my head with confusion that people seem to lack certain seemingly common sense about a thing like this. (edit: note to self - expand on logistics of buying subs + people thinking that if they buy subs for someone else as a gift they expect them to work as advertised + possibility of better gift certificate system to lessen confusion regarding "who buys subs" vs "who uses subs")

I just want to give my understanding of "AM6 didn't work":

When I used AM5 it made me more aggressive standing my point. When I used AM6 it was way more gentle and it didn't feel like much is going on. After it I was glad that I was done and did not want to do it again, cause it felt like nothing happened. When I look at who I was a few years ago and who I am now, it is a noticeable difference. I am not going as far as "more alpha than me is not possible", cause it sure is, but I am really comfortable with being myself. Even though I can feel fear, guilt and shame in moments I am still myself and not attached or dependent on that emotion. I feel fear but the moment I feel it I know what it is and am completely aware that it is a feeling that's trying to take control of me. Actually that one and the wisdom to not have to attack people personally just because they have a different opinion is what is most obvious since I ran AM6. But most of the benefit developed afterwards, not during the run. It was like 3-6 months after that or even until 12 months after that when the growth was still there. Maybe it is just placebo, but I got more mature, calm and centered - and it was not that I could notice it DURING the run, it was way after it.

This was posted by Shannon in this thread here -->http://subliminal-talk.com/thread-6099.html

Shannon Wrote:Here we go again.

This is all well explained in the FAQ.

If you download something and that act is pirating it, AP code activates. If you delete it without ever using it, and you did not engage in any other form of piracy (sharing, etc. that which you deleted before deleting it) you de-activate AP code because you have not used it, and no longer have it, which means you ended the state if piracy.

If however, you download something and use it, and/or you share it, etc. you must pay for it.

The AP code does not induce guilt, shame or fear. I despise those things and I will not use them to manipulate people. Please read the FAQ.

Giving away a copy of a pirated program is piracy.

Giving away a copy of a paid for program is - yes, you guessed it - piracy.
Accepting a copy of a program that you have not paid for is piracy.
Using a copy of a pirated program is, yes, piracy.

Anything that results in the unequal exchange of value is piracy! When you benefit from a program I created, but IML does not get the asked for value in return, you are committing theft. Call it theft, piracy, whatever you like. It triggers AP code.

Go read the FAQ on this.

(12-05-2015, 07:02 AM)K-Train Wrote: [ -> ]This was posted by Shannon in this thread here -->http://subliminal-talk.com/thread-6099.html

Shannon Wrote:Here we go again.

This is all well explained in the FAQ.

If you download something and that act is pirating it, AP code activates. If you delete it without ever using it, and you did not engage in any other form of piracy (sharing, etc. that which you deleted before deleting it) you de-activate AP code because you have not used it, and no longer have it, which means you ended the state if piracy.

If however, you download something and use it, and/or you share it, etc. you must pay for it.

The AP code does not induce guilt, shame or fear. I despise those things and I will not use them to manipulate people. Please read the FAQ.

Giving away a copy of a pirated program is piracy.

Giving away a copy of a paid for program is - yes, you guessed it - piracy.
Accepting a copy of a program that you have not paid for is piracy.
Using a copy of a pirated program is, yes, piracy.

Anything that results in the unequal exchange of value is piracy! When you benefit from a program I created, but IML does not get the asked for value in return, you are committing theft. Call it theft, piracy, whatever you like. It triggers AP code.

Go read the FAQ on this.

LOL. One of them is "Accepting a program you have not paid for is piracy. Right now I'm running two programs that I didn't pay for and I don't know how that would be piracy.

I was fine with the AP code but I thought it was about doing illegal stuff, not legal stuff and being so butt hurt that you call it illegal because you don't like it.

I don't want to turn into some little bitch sissy that's like 'Oh I got this new cd on my itunes but I'm not going to let my friend put it on his ipod because that's wrong. AND I don't want to go to a friend's house and do the same thing "thanks for the offer man, but I'm not going to put this on my mp3 player that's wrong, I'll just go buy the CD instead.

That's some retard bitc* pussy behavior and logic.

Taking the AP code that far is INSANELY FEAR BASED.

I feel like I need to go to a friend's house and put a bunch of his sh*t on my iphone RIGHT NOW just to make sure I don't have a bitch brain from this sissy ass AP code.

I got BASE 4g for free so I guess according to Shannon's AP code I'm using a pirated version right now. How STUPID.

Never using 5g that's written in stone now. I'm never having this AP code locked in my brain, I can't imagine having the logic of half of you commenting on this.

These subs SERIOUSLY need to go through some sort of legal sh*t before going up for sale because this isn't right, and if it did have to get legally approved there's no way this shady ass sissy little fear based AP code would be allowed in the subs.

Shady & Pathetic.

(12-05-2015, 07:23 AM)TheRealJustin Wrote: [ -> ]LOL. One of them is "Accepting a program you have not paid for is piracy. Right now I'm running two programs that I didn't pay for and I don't know how that would be piracy.

I was fine with the AP code but I thought it was about doing illegal stuff, not legal stuff and being so butt hurt that you call it illegal because you don't like it.

I don't want to turn into some little bitch sissy that's like 'Oh I got this new cd on my itunes but I'm not going to let my friend put it on his ipod because that's wrong. AND I don't want to go to a friend's house and do the same thing "thanks for the offer man, but I'm not going to put this on my mp3 player that's wrong, I'll just go buy the CD instead.

That's some retard bitc* pussy behavior and logic.

Taking the AP code that far is INSANELY FEAR BASED.

I feel like I need to go to a friend's house and put a bunch of his sh*t on my iphone RIGHT NOW just to make sure I don't have a bitch brain from this sissy ass AP code.

I got BASE 4g for free so I guess according to Shannon's AP code I'm using a pirated version right now. How STUPID.

Never using 5g that's written in stone now. I'm never having this AP code locked in my brain, I can't imagine having the logic of half of you commenting on this.

These subs SERIOUSLY need to go through some sort of legal sh*t before going up for sale because this isn't right, and if it did have to get legally approved there's no way this shady ass sissy little fear based AP code would be allowed in the subs.

Shady & Pathetic.

What the f*ck are you trying to achieve with these bullshits?

RealJustin I'm sure this thread will get looked at by Shannon and the other mods so can you go ahead and offer them an alternative to what they have in place?

(12-05-2015, 07:41 AM)Survivor Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-05-2015, 07:23 AM)TheRealJustin Wrote: [ -> ]LOL. One of them is "Accepting a program you have not paid for is piracy. Right now I'm running two programs that I didn't pay for and I don't know how that would be piracy.

I was fine with the AP code but I thought it was about doing illegal stuff, not legal stuff and being so butt hurt that you call it illegal because you don't like it.

I don't want to turn into some little bitch sissy that's like 'Oh I got this new cd on my itunes but I'm not going to let my friend put it on his ipod because that's wrong. AND I don't want to go to a friend's house and do the same thing "thanks for the offer man, but I'm not going to put this on my mp3 player that's wrong, I'll just go buy the CD instead.

That's some retard bitc* pussy behavior and logic.

Taking the AP code that far is INSANELY FEAR BASED.

I feel like I need to go to a friend's house and put a bunch of his sh*t on my iphone RIGHT NOW just to make sure I don't have a bitch brain from this sissy ass AP code.

I got BASE 4g for free so I guess according to Shannon's AP code I'm using a pirated version right now. How STUPID.

Never using 5g that's written in stone now. I'm never having this AP code locked in my brain, I can't imagine having the logic of half of you commenting on this.

These subs SERIOUSLY need to go through some sort of legal sh*t before going up for sale because this isn't right, and if it did have to get legally approved there's no way this shady ass sissy little fear based AP code would be allowed in the subs.

Shady & Pathetic.

What the f*ck are you trying to achieve with these bullshits?

Achieve having programmed into my brain WHAT I PAY to get programmed into my brain and NOTHING else.

I don't need these subs to play the fuc*ing moral police for me, I don't want that sh*t in my head. Why should I have to PAY REAL MONEY TO HAVE REAL BULLSH*T PROGRAMMED INTO MY BRAIN THAT I DO NOT WANT PROGRAMMED INTO MY BRAIN.

I should get what I pay for.

There's people in the world that pirate who cares there's also people that buy.

Do you want your DVD's at home to start subliminally saying "If I enjoy this movie I will give fair value back to Disney" over and over for the whole movie?

You don't want that because that's not what you paid for, that's SHADY SHADY SHADY SHADY Business.

That's not how I would EVER do business, that is just wrong.

If you can't see that then you're brainwashed straight up.

RealJustin everything you're talking about is actually laid out in the FAQ section in the store. Honestly man I think the best thing for you to do is stop giving Indigo Mind Labs your money until they employ business practices that you agree with.

TheRealJustin.. it's fine for you to disagree but the way you're posting about this is pretty disrespectful to Shannon with some of the stuff you've said. If you're going to argue against it cut that out and do it rationally.

(12-04-2015, 08:56 PM)TheRealJustin Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-04-2015, 01:05 PM)Mr. Anderson Wrote: [ -> ]If you didn't stop it, finish it AND pay for it.

(12-04-2015, 01:04 PM)Light Wrote: [ -> ]Guys if he got a copy from a friend? Is that piracy?
Could it affect the results?
I am just curious

It is, because he didn't pay for. But Shannon said it has still it's full effect but people who use pirated versions pay in another way for. He never revealed how does it work exactly.

You're trippin balls, that's NOT piracy AT ALL.

So if I go to the store and buy The Lord Of The Rings on DVD and I give it to a friend, then that means my friend PIRATED IT???? Fuc* NO is this a joke?

If someone buys something they can LEGALLY give it to whoever they want to.

Sorry Shannon and whoever else but that is not piracy.

If I buy a game for my xbox I can give it to whoever the fu*k I want to give it to, and there is NOTHING illegal about that.

Legally speaking, Lord of the Rings is bought as copy for exhibition which grants your rights to watch it. However, dissementating said media to others is considered creating another copy and thus piracy.

People forget that the money you pay allows for you to have END USER RIGHTS ONLY. Not a wholesale ownership of the artwork (movie, video games, etc). End user rights does not have dissemenation to one other or to a mass audience.

Read this warning used in most DVDs. Assumption for home use is for DVDs. A Blockbuster (they dont exist anymore) or a Hilton Hotels can show LOTR in their premises as they agree to a different licensing fee than you or I (that 5 bucks you give to walmart for some crappy Van Damme movie is giving you license to view Van Damme's awful acting skills (sorry JCVD fans just an example); Hilton or Blockbuster pays way more than 5 bucks per exhibition)

It does not grant you (legally) rights to transfer said home viewing license or video game playing licnese.

That said, nothing can stop you from lending that Call of Duty to your friend. But running programs simultaneously using the same Product Key is damn near impossible (Xbox checks it before xbOne) so only one of you can use individually or both od together. Still, lending a game to your friend while you own it does not make it legal. it only falls into a grey zone of legality in which your friend assumes your rights temporarily (for only the home viewing parameters of the End User License) & must revert back at the time of the license check (ie when xbox says, plug in your product key).
Subliminals are tricky in that there's only digital. Xbox games (now) are disc dependent and rely on one disc one exhibition parameters of copywrite law (ie of you own the cartridge, you own the playing right). It becomes illegal if you create a new disc (hence product keys were needed to ensure no illicit copies).

I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advise but know that IML is within its rights as a digital artist to put in whatever they want in the sub.

BTW, those who legally buy things here get treated to a 20 bullet-point list of rights and responsibilities witb regards to the product being purchases.

One of them is that IML is held harmless to anything that occurs while using the product because it is used for entertainment purposes only and not to be used as medical advise (this is standard language for most subs or if you buy things like The Secret book or even Amazon mp3s).

Another states that you will not disseminate extra copies of the program in violation of copywrite law (Florida is strict with copywrite law).

Another states that customer will assume responsibility that happens forthwith (lets say you get aggressive using AM6 and break someone's nose) & exhibition of end user license, you agree that IML is not a party to any liability you incur (as it is entertainment and you hold your actions to your ownself). Etc.

So to challenge your statement:
1) its not shady, its within IML's legal rights to put the piracy code
2) Your end user license (which can cost up to $500 for AM6 or SM3 damn lol) only grants you some exhibition rights, you dont own the artistic or copywrites to the product (& thus subsequent profits if you re-sell, not that you would lol)

Quote:WARNING

The copyright owner has licensed this video recording for home use only. All other rights are reserved.

WARNING

The copyright owner has licensed the film (including
it's soundtrack) recorded on this video recording for home
use only. All other rights are reserved.

The definition of home use excludes the use of this video
recording at locations such as clubs, coaches, hospitals,
hotels, oilrigs, prisons and schools.

Any unauthorised copying, editing, exhibition, sale,
rental, ending or any other kinds of trading, public performance or transmission by air, cable or otherwise of this video recording or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and any such action establishes liability for civil action and may give rise to criminal prosecution.

I bought 2 4g subliminals, downloaded them to my comp, gave to friend, i never used them and deleted them from my comp. I am now running base 2.1. Did i trigger the anti piracy protection? I cant remember if i deleted the subs before i purchased base or not (i did not use them didn't even unzip them).

This is kinda dangerous I mean we are spending so many hours listening to these subliminals and to be worrying about if you are wasting your time or not. I hope I don't have to ask for a refund lol.