Subliminal Talk

Okay I will firstly state that I cannot relate my experience to WM as I have read that its effects are different and doesn't have the same outcome pattern.

I'm probably not the first person to notice this and I am just expressing my thinking outwards. In recent years I have ran AM5 + SM2 (4G) and AM6 once and SM3 twice. Now I have been around these products for a long time, I remember the discussions on the forum of how to make AM5 the best possible sub it could be lol.

There is a 32 days per stage rule on all 6 stage subliminals and this stretches way back to much older subs, Shannons sub are considered exponentially more powerful now than they were years ago.

Running AM5, SM2 the 32 days made sense, especially with AM5 as everyday brought with it something new to knock you off of your previous course, these subs truly needed 32 days to adapt change.

In the last 2 years I have ran the 5G subs mentioned above, and one thing that seems mostly pointless is the 32 days rule, during both subs there are noticeable changes or effects of the subs within the early days of each stage, however around 2/3 of each stage just seems pointless, nothing exciting is happening, dreams etc brought on by the stage just seem to cease. I have found it so hard to keep an upto online journal because I've been super busy, but i have been keeping a personal one, and the pattern is the same for both subs I have ran this year, every stage AM6 + SM3 starts off with something noticeable, after about 5 days changes seem to slow, and in the 9-11 day mark there is a plateau point that seems to happen, you just are done and ready for the next stage, and whats really frustrating is for every stage there is 20 days that aren't worth mentioning because a) nothing new is happening and b) changes have already occurred

I do miss AM5 and I miss when subliminal were easier to build resistance towards, at least then any changes meant you knew when things were spiralling out of control that something was being worked on. Honestly I would love to run both these subliminal again, but I can't see the point its like running 6 different short subs that are connected, but instead of continual progress like the 4G versions it is quick progress and a whole lot of nothing and waiting for the next jump at progress.

My 384 day journey is coming to an end soon, 12 stages at 32 days each of AM then SM. Im somewhat disappointed, at 16 days a stage I would have done this journey twice, at 10 days a stage i could have ran both 3 times and seen continual change.

These subs are supposed to be integrated and I am unsure why the decision to experiment with shorter testing periods hasn't been made a major thing. 5G was initially said to be like 10x more powerful than 4G (or 4X can't remember) and that was before some of the newer technologies such as Slipstream etc were added in, so it makes sense to me that a more powerful sub would incorporate a lesser exposure time to have effect, which I have noticed, starting a new stage is always apparent because the first few days are either the worst or the best.

Stage 4 and 5 of AM6 I actually encountered a lot of resistance, I went through points where my mood could almost be described as bipolar, however in both stages this happened from day 2 - 6, day 7 i was fine, day 8 things were looking up and then just nothing to report until the next stage.

I believe if its your first time then maybe 32 days is a good foundation setting, but i ran both these subs on time par with a friend whom is otherwise new to shannons work and his results are so similar to mine, the main times the subs had a strong effect were the early section of each stage.

I would love to see the comparison with AM6.
Two people both new to the sub,
1 person running 32 days per stage = 192 days
1 person 10 days per stage, 3 times through = 180 days
I'd be happy to bet the person benefiting the most would be the one who ran it 3 times.
why?
changes introduced, quick ascending to next stage = less stagnating, less looking around for change (which a lot of us have done in our journals), then a complete reinforcement on the 2nd and the 3rd run


Also, if the goal of each stage is introducing something new, what happens to the subconscious mind after the idea has been accepted, constant repetition begins to lose value, because when we have incorporated an idea we essentially ignore it when its implanted, well thats how it works in a healthy mind, so really constant reinforcement isn't good as it achieves nothing...
you wouldn't run a stage 7 refresher for ever, your subconscious would incorporate the change being suggested and then automatically ignore the suggestions until your beliefs etc had been changed.
so 22 days of the same messages is weak if the sub is powerful enough to force your subliminal mind into submission in the first week, your subconscious actually gets bored of listening to the sub because its not being influenced.
Example... you run a 6 stager, at the every stage your more tired than normal, your brain is working around the clock to process the new way of thinking, you lose this less than half way through the stage, your tiredness isn't as apparent and then suddenly BOOM! you start the next stage and you are tired again.
The moment your mind fully accepts a suggestions it will stop listening to it until a point where that suggestion no longer sits true in your reality, if these subs are so powerful they can affect a change of belief in a few days, then it makes sense that by day 20,25,32 your mind isn't listening to the bulk of each stage because it doesn't have to, it will only be affected by suggestions you haven't accepted yet. Remembering that some suggestions can take multiple runs of the program to be accepted and some you personally may not accept at all.



Whats your opinion guys and of course Shannon? Those running AM6, SM3 whats your input?
Again I know that WM is a little different, a lot of the technology is older and WM doesn't contain OE etc and has a noticeable impact throughout its stages because of that good old fashioned resistance etc

I shouldn't write these at 2am lol, i know its poorly written and i don't mean to come across arrogant etc,

Quote: I would love to see the comparison with AM6.
Two people both new to the sub,
1 person running 32 days per stage = 192 days
1 person 10 days per stage, 3 times through = 180 days
I'd be happy to bet the person benefiting the most would be the one who ran it 3 times.
why?
changes introduced, quick ascending to next stage = less stagnating, less looking around for change (which a lot of us have done in our journals), then a complete reinforcement on the 2nd and the 3rd run

Hey Minititan! these are some excellent ideas to explore, and you put foward a lot of good points.

I too am thinking if for our 3rd+ runs wouldn't we benefit more doing shorter runs? I mean ive gone through some serious resistance on my first and 2nd runs of Am6, and i think the 32 days were needed.

But i also think for a 3rd run doing some experimenting with less days should not be discarded only because the 32 days are set on stone. There is always a better way i think, we just need to find it. Im thinking not just 10 days because that might be too short, but something like 16 days and 2 runthroughs would be awesome.

Hi Mini! So good to hear from the guy who inspired me to run SM3! My run hasn't gone nearly as well as yours did, hugely disappointing run...but anyway...

I've noticed the same things on many stages. Other stages I had activity until the end.

On the ones I "went dark" on after awhile, I have realisations early on, things are good, dreams etc. then a blank spot until the next stage generally where I just go through the motions. I think the reason for continuing the 32 day thing is to just accomodate those who are really messed up on programming and a worst case scenario, to allow an absolute avalanche of snowflakes to develop per stage to allow the most consistent level of change possible. It also would tend to allow longer term/permanent change. I also listen for an extremely high amount of hours, thus further facilitating the amount of snowflakes developed by an incredible margin compared to most. So, at times, my results on stages can be far more extreme as the stages I peak early on are VERY noticeable. Also, those dead spots could very well be times where the easy work for the sub is done, and it is currently working on a bigger issue that is resisting the sub. Hence the reason why Shannon says each of these multi-subs should be run 3 times generally, to get the most benefit from them. It makes sense to me, as everyone comes from a different place and different challenges to overcome and will need a good dose of snowflakes of every stage to have the program become the mind's dominant programming.

I'm not sure if much shorter stages would work better. Maybe in the future Shannon will change the 32 day rule or the multistages may even be converted to a single stage. Too many unknowns at this point.

It's some very interesting views though that I can corroborate at times. I'm not sure I'm balanced enough yet to say it's happened every time, as a few stages like I said have gone to the wire with stimulae.

^^^^I think that is one of the main reasons why it´s 32 days, the habit breaking. Also, according to the same theory it also takes same amount of time to form a NEW habit.

Anyway, I have generally experienced multi stages this way: The first day or two of new stage I feel the change (and sometimes see it externally as well) , then around week after I really feel it kicking in...then long more "stable" period where nothing obvious seem to happen since after the "real kicking" in the week mark, then last week or so before the end it gets even stronger. So for me, if I were to use it anywhere less than 32 days I would miss those last strengthening phases.
I am sure Shannon has reason why it´s 32 days, and I´m sure he has confirmed that to be the case even while moving to newer/more powerful generations of subs. (I have no idea what the case will be in 6Gs, but again, I´m sure Shannon has and knows what he is doing)

i had the same thoughts about this, i never understood why a sub is more powerfull but you have to run it the same amount of time...

5g seems more effective in short time, but like you said then the suggestions get ignored

i also dont understand how everything about subs got updated but only the instruction stayed the same, i also feel like the last 15-20 days are very uneventfull


after my sm3 run i experimented with shorter little runs, even with listening to all 6 stages in one night, like you said ok shanon mentioned the programm needs at least 180 days so why not doing the little run throughs

otherwise i also miss am5 and will probably do it after my am6 run, and then perhaps sm2 since i never used it

so what was your experience with sm2

alpha rome i used wm2 for 66 days a stage and had even more kicking in after day 45 or day 60 but i think two runs with 32 would have been better, we dont say to dont use the sub for the recommended overall time need of 180 days but just to split in shorter times, or do you think you would get less growth of doing the same stage twice for 16 days instead of doing it once for 32


PS: intersting when i talked about my thoughts on this 1 year ago noone reacted to it and considered me to be wrong so i bowed to the offical opinion and now many guys are comin with the same theories

eidt: not only the effects stop by the end they even weaken, i will take catman for example, i honestly dont believe that he is a hard case and that even the subs cant help him, he just pushed this theory to the max following the instruction and doing max hours and as we all see with even less results than other dudes

i think its like learning when i have to learn something i repeat one part of a text over and over again, but if i repeat one part to long my mind starts wandering and i ignore the text so i have to move to the next one and come back again after a while to the first one, i honestyl thing everyone here is too afraid to not follow the instruction, although it was mad by shanon in a time when his subs was far less effective 2,3 G and i think this disscussion will be ended here very soon with the result that we will have to follow the instruction and the 32 days per stage because every one is too afraid to accept that it might not be actual anymore

(10-17-2015, 10:33 AM)templecity Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting ideas about the length of stages; Well, I was under the impression about the Importance of Exposure Time; Perhaps, that is why the 32 Day rule per stage is Highly Important... And, not but least, the Old Theory: 'It Takes 32 Days To Break A Habit ."

Why 32 days?
http://subliminal-talk.com/thread-163.ht...hy+32+days

(05-19-2010, 11:35 AM)Shannon Wrote: [ -> ]Good question, Alumni.

Basically, that number is a result of a lot of research and experimentation. That is how long it takes to change a habit, and that is how long regular subliminals take to work. In many cases, mine work faster than that, but for a good impact, it's smart to go with the amount of time it takes to change a habit. I have also seen firsthand that it's a really good amount of time to use the subliminal, get the result, and have it last.

this post is from 2010

here again i will use the analogy of steroids

the classical old steroids with not that high amout of androgenic/anabolic ratings are great for using long term and dont show a lot of change when used for a few weeks but show constant gains in the long term

testosterione 100: 100 androgenic/anabolic ideal usage time for max gains 6-8 months
trenbolone 500:500 androgenic/ anabolic usage time for max gains 3-4 months

on the other hands we have designer roids with much higher androgenic/anabolic ratings, they produce fast gains in short time but if used longer the effects stop and the gains too because the body and receptors gets desensitized, and you only get side effects

epistane 600:800 androgenic/rating ideal usage time for max gains 1-2 months
m1t 800:1200 androgenic/anabolic ideal usage time for max gains 3-6 weeks
methyl-dien 6000:8000 ideal usage time for max gains 1-2 weeks

so basicly we are running designer roids the same amount of the as we should run classical roids

(10-17-2015, 11:08 AM)Dzemoo Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-19-2010, 11:35 AM)Shannon Wrote: [ -> ]Good question, Alumni.

Basically, that number is a result of a lot of research and experimentation. That is how long it takes to change a habit, and that is how long regular subliminals take to work. In many cases, mine work faster than that, but for a good impact, it's smart to go with the amount of time it takes to change a habit. I have also seen firsthand that it's a really good amount of time to use the subliminal, get the result, and have it last.

this post is from 2010

here again i will use the analogy of steroids

the classical old steroids with not that high amout of androgenic/anabolic ratings are great for using long term and dont show a lot of change when used for a few weeks but show constant gains in the long term

testosterione 100: 100 androgenic/anabolic ideal usage time for max gains 6-8 months
trenbolone 500:500 androgenic/ anabolic usage time for max gains 3-4 months

on the other hands we have designer roids with much higher androgenic/anabolic ratings, they produce fast gains in short time but if used longer the effects stop and the gains too because the body and receptors gets desensitized, and you only get side effects

epistane 600:800 androgenic/rating ideal usage time for max gains 1-2 months
m1t 800:1200 androgenic/anabolic ideal usage time for max gains 3-6 weeks
methyl-dien 6000:8000 ideal usage time for max gains 1-2 weeks

so basicly we are running designer roids the same amount of the as we should run classical roids

I just found the post... Don't kill the messenger.
http://www.subliminal-shop.com/faq/
What is this What is this 3g/4g/5g stuff?
Generation 3 is about seven to fourteen times more powerful than the typical subliminal offering you’ll find out there. Gen 4 is about twice as powerful as Gen 3, and twice as complex to build. Gen 5 by itself is about 9.2 times more powerful and complex to build than Gen 4 is, and when you add on all the enhancements I have made to it since creating the 5th Generation build specifications, such as HyperSpeed Technology, Self Optimizing Scripting, the Optimus Engine, the Naturalizer and MaxSpeed technology, it goes off the charts.

Maybe the 32 day rule should be reexamined???

It certainly is weird that 4G has recommended listening times that are less than 5G. Shouldn't it be the opposite? If more powerful, less listening required/recommended?

Everbody is like :
CHANGE ! REVOLUTION ! NO MORE !

Hahaha , let's see what Shannon has to say about this first. Yet, 32 days is considered the MINIMUM. So I think we couldn't expect less days, but let't see.

Perhaps someone could try this shorter time span i.e 15 /16 days a stage and do that 3 times. From my understanding the aim is to keep consistent times with the 6 stagers so all 6 at say 16 days shouldn't be problem. The only sticking point of course would be that some stage's suggestions might need longer because you are more resistant to those statements. But running the sub more times would address those problems anyway.
Definitely need to reconsider the 32 rule.

Especially if you've already ran the program.

another example

i remember when stimulant x came out

version one was very powerful but too harsh for many poeple
version 2 was still powerful, but smoother and with less side effects
version 3 was too smooth and not that powerful so i stopped buying this supplement as i could drink some green tea and have the same effects

i think a problem here is that shanon isnt running the subs by himself anymore, he is now just running bamm, so he only knows what he put in and what it should do theoreticly

am6 is great in terms of making a man healthy and i am really feeling it but there is no raw alpha power in it

So Generation 5 subs are between 128.8x and 257.6x more powerful than your average subliminal. Minimum before the addition of slipstream etc. based on the figures above.
So technically speaking a shorter timeframe would make sense. Habit forming is an interesting but highly outdated theory with recent research suggesting it can take between 66 and 84 days for a new habit to be formed. Essentially, the subs are looking to change a habit,

if the purpose of the subs was to introduce habits, they would hold no justification of their retail value, as changing a habit doesn't change the individual. If AM was all about introducing the habits of an alpha into your behaviour it would be another pointless $7.99 album promising change.

The sub has to change your belief and shake your reality, the more it shakes and alters your reality the greater the outcome, to invoke change you must shock your beliefs in a way. Which I strongly believe shannons subliminal do, although the new ones do it so strong and so quickly that your reality alters in a short period of time.
This is where my theory comes in, after that initial 1-8 day period the moment the sub begins to shake your reality and change occurs stagnation is inevitable. Why?
Familiarity breeds contempt, once your subconscious has taken what it deems necessary it will shut off the stimuli of the subliminal, after change has occurred your subconscious is essentially bored of the mental overload the subliminal is introducing.

Heres an overly simplified example:
you move into a new apartment near a nightclub, every thursday - saturday night you are kept awake by the noise, however after a few weeks it becomes normal for you to sleep easily in that environment, your subconscious has accepted and chosen to ignore the stimuli,
Then something happens, (maybe something big or stressful) suddenly your subconscious is overrun with so much new stimuli from whatever is stressing you it is no longer able to actively ignore the nose of the club and it becomes a conscious irritant

so 10 days a stage in a cycle, completing the sub 3 times could actively improve results 10-fold, as the listeners reality is being shocked 18 times in 6 months instead of 6, and the subconscious has no time to adjust to ignoring the subliminal messages as the point of which they begin to bore the mind they are changed up. OMG Guys I may have just invented AM6 in 5.5G Format Lol! joking aside.

EDIT---
Alpharomeo mentions a strengthening phase at the end of each stage, when something becomes automatic to us we don't notice further improvement, after you learn to drive and have mastered the skill, you don't suddenly think one day that your driving improves, if anything your driving can only improve consciously not subconsciously.
So 10 days - stagnate 15 - Boost last 7
This boost wouldn't technically be a boost it would be the initial purpose being developed again, why? repetition for 32 days? Hell NO!
during the stagnation phase if you are subconsciously ignoring something you are putting effort into ignoring it, thus after a while you build resistance to it because you've had enough of it, so a boost would suggest a lot of resistance that you are actively noticing because consciously you are focused on how close the next stage is and thinking about the future
OR
the results you achieved in altering your reality at the start of the sub have began to diminish because you are ignoring the suggestions completely, and when a large enough incongruence between the sub and you happens you begin to accept the suggestions again, not really reinforcing more redoing partially and a little review. Thus the feeling of success with at the end of each stage, boosted only by the fact you would review the stage internally look at the initial changes from the start of the stage and seek out things that would prove the changes were still in accordance with your reality.

(This is especially true for the critically acclaimed SM3, the sub which only seems to produce any kind of results in the beginning of each stage and then does nothing, upto 12 days success and 20 days of nothing - not even stagnation just nothing, in my opinion 32 days is actually damaging the results of this sub, many will argue this strongly, but after running that sub twice through and having success with it at times, these always were inline with the changing of stages, especially in the second run through)

I love how this is going to be challenged heavily and totally accepted by others, Dzemoo if i had come across your thread a year ago I would have supported your point, but the last year of subs has really proven it for me.