Subliminal Talk

So I'm not sure what to go with next, now that I'm done with my latest run of E7.

I'm choosing between an AYP sub (AYPJRL or AYPORL), MLS (an older version) or MMv1. I don't have the money for a new sub and I want to use something else because while I'm grateful for the progress made with EHPRA (especially E7) I feel like I'm tired of only ever focusing on self healing and probably have reached that unconscious boredom phase of subliminal usage.  

I've been wanting to use an MYP or an AYP sub for a long time now, but the versions I have are rather outdated and an updated version of AYPRL is (according to Shannon) planned for sometime in the nearer future.  

So if I wait to get it, I'll still wanna use something else. I could use MM and get m finances in order, but I'm not sure how well MMv1 did or did not work when I used it because it was subtle. On the other hand, MLS could be useful for learning a simple instrument like harmonica and improving songwriting so I can make music, but I have a number of issues limiting the full usage I could get out of it lately. The AYP sub could get me what I want most lately, but It's such an old version I'll have to basically play my phone for 8 hours straight every night and it sounds like it'll take at least half a year on average to get the results if I properly set it and forget it, which is easier to do if I wait and use an up to date version that probably tales like 15 to 60 minutes for a single loop and doesn't require an 8 hour time commitment every on day. Although knowing current Gen subs it could be a multi stage set when it gets released but will probably be more powerful and effective, maybe even take less time. But I'll need to have the money and don't know if I will. 

So pros and cons laid out, I think I'm lookin at: 

AYP(J/O)RL - 8 hour time commitment per on day, 6-12 month time commitment, possible failure to properly execute and older tech being less powerful, but I get an ideal girlfriend if I do properly execute and I don't have to keep waiting just to pull the trigger, which I'm sick of. 

MM - Pro: more money. I like money. Who doesn't, except maybe a communist or something.  And they don't really hate money, they hate not having it or maybe other people having more of it. Cons: I dunno how much more money I'll be getting than I otherwise would, so I don't know how much or how little it will have been worth the time. 

MLS: Pros - learn new skills I want to develop, such as songwriting,  lyricism, Harmonica, cooking skills, metal growling, rapping, musical improvisation (be it singing, rapping or whatever) and maybe some other cool stuff I'm interested in. Cons - I can't access a lot of the heavy metal type beats I purchased that I wanted to write songs for and my house is so chaotic lately with lengthy renovations that have gone on for half a year and might be going on for another 6 or so months before everything is in order that I can barely find any of the stuff I usually use to make music with, so I'm probably better off waiting until things are in order first and Savin that for later. Pulling the trigger on an AYP sub is a lot easier than pulling the trigger on songwriting lately and frankly I can still make progress at being a siner/songwriter by just focusing on vocal exercises so my singing itself is better. Plenty of YT videos that are useful towards that end are free. Also, Harmonica should be an easy instrument anyway. Guilt, shame and fear are .y biggest creative setbacks and other subs are better for clearing those issues. 


Writing that, I feel I should hold off on MLS, so it's between MMv1 and AYP(J/O)RL. 
Improving my finances could be REALLY helpful towards a lot of things, but it looks like my job interview for a full time $16/hr job within walking distance of my house (I live with my folks, taking care of rent, utilities and food expenses) which (at full time) comes with PTO and full benefits went well and I'll probably get the job as soon as I get drug tested and the results come back clean. So how much difference will MM REALLY make? I honestly don't know. 

You know what? I should probably  pull the trigger on the AYP sub. Thanks @Shannon for the advice! The pro/con list was petty helpful!

Okay, so unless anyone else has ay advice that changes my perspective,  I'ma go with AYP(J/O)RL. Now I just need to decide which of the two subs to go with. Probably J cuz I'm kind of a weeb. If so, I'll just post here when I've started and then stop posting until the results occur.

Well, my take would be - use the latest sub you have for money-making (so I guess MM), make some hay and purchase PTSD Rec. Aid ASAP!

(12-17-2025, 08:01 AM)EvolvingPhoenix Wrote: [ -> ]So I'm not sure what to go with next, now that I'm done with my latest run of E7.

I'm choosing between an AYP sub (AYPJRL or AYPORL), MLS (an older version) or MMv1. I don't have the money for a new sub and I want to use something else because while I'm grateful for the progress made with EHPRA (especially E7) I feel like I'm tired of only ever focusing on self healing and probably have reached that unconscious boredom phase of subliminal usage.  

I've been wanting to use an MYP or an AYP sub for a long time now, but the versions I have are rather outdated and an updated version of AYPRL is (according to Shannon) planned for sometime in the nearer future.  

So if I wait to get it, I'll still wanna use something else. I could use MM and get m finances in order, but I'm not sure how well MMv1 did or did not work when I used it because it was subtle. On the other hand, MLS could be useful for learning a simple instrument like harmonica and improving songwriting so I can make music, but I have a number of issues limiting the full usage I could get out of it lately. The AYP sub could get me what I want most lately, but It's such an old version I'll have to basically play my phone for 8 hours straight every night and it sounds like it'll take at least half a year on average to get the results if I properly set it and forget it, which is easier to do if I wait and use an up to date version that probably tales like 15 to 60 minutes for a single loop and doesn't require an 8 hour time commitment every on day. Although knowing current Gen subs it could be a multi stage set when it gets released but will probably be more powerful and effective, maybe even take less time. But I'll need to have the money and don't know if I will. 

So pros and cons laid out, I think I'm lookin at: 

AYP(J/O)RL - 8 hour time commitment per on day, 6-12 month time commitment, possible failure to properly execute and older tech being less powerful, but I get an ideal girlfriend if I do properly execute and I don't have to keep waiting just to pull the trigger, which I'm sick of. 

MM - Pro: more money. I like money. Who doesn't, except maybe a communist or something.  And they don't really hate money, they hate not having it or maybe other people having more of it. Cons: I dunno how much more money I'll be getting than I otherwise would, so I don't know how much or how little it will have been worth the time. 

MLS: Pros - learn new skills I want to develop, such as songwriting,  lyricism, Harmonica, cooking skills, metal growling, rapping, musical improvisation (be it singing, rapping or whatever) and maybe some other cool stuff I'm interested in. Cons - I can't access a lot of the heavy metal type beats I purchased that I wanted to write songs for and my house is so chaotic lately with lengthy renovations that have gone on for half a year and might be going on for another 6 or so months before everything is in order that I can barely find any of the stuff I usually use to make music with, so I'm probably better off waiting until things are in order first and Savin that for later. Pulling the trigger on an AYP sub is a lot easier than pulling the trigger on songwriting lately and frankly I can still make progress at being a siner/songwriter by just focusing on vocal exercises so my singing itself is better. Plenty of YT videos that are useful towards that end are free. Also, Harmonica should be an easy instrument anyway. Guilt, shame and fear are .y biggest creative setbacks and other subs are better for clearing those issues. 


Writing that, I feel I should hold off on MLS, so it's between MMv1 and AYP(J/O)RL. 
Improving my finances could be REALLY helpful towards a lot of things, but it looks like my job interview for a full time $16/hr job within walking distance of my house (I live with my folks, taking care of rent, utilities and food expenses) which (at full time) comes with PTO and full benefits went well and I'll probably get the job as soon as I get drug tested and the results come back clean. So how much difference will MM REALLY make? I honestly don't know. 

You know what? I should probably  pull the trigger on the AYP sub. Thanks @Shannon for the advice! The pro/con list was petty helpful!

Okay, so unless anyone else has ay advice that changes my perspective,  I'ma go with AYP(J/O)RL. Now I just need to decide which of the two subs to go with. Probably J cuz I'm kind of a weeb. If so, I'll just post here when I've started and then stop posting until the results occur.

From what I remember from what you've said in the past, it sounds like you're really dissatisfied with your life. If that's the case I wouldn't waste time on any of those subs unless you think it's going to make significant progress towards where you want to be on a core level. Any sub that is a maybe when your life sucks is not worth it in my eyes. I'd rather always be getting value. If I were in your shoes and I had to pick one of those I'd pick MLS because it gives the most tangible benefit. But that's only if you're sure it's worth it in your head. If I'm way off base though, feel free to take what I say with a grain of salt. 

AYP: Old tech, 6m-1y for MAYBE getting a girlfriend. Big chance of self sabotage. Where could you have been in 6months-1year of using something like E7 or PTSDRA or even DMSI? Opportunity cost is a real thing.

MM: Fun sub, but intangible benefit. If you feel like your life sucks I recommend running something else. Is it likely to help if it works? Yes. If it does, is it likely to change your life? Consider opportunity cost. While running it maybe you gain a couple hundred bucks or something, but you could have spent that time growing into the person who has the life you want. If you're really tight on finances and you think spending a couple months to MAYBE gain a little in finances is worth it then that's fine. I think the real magic with MM would from when you're in a place to leverage the manifestation. Basically I view it as a win more mechanic, or as a last ditch effort (financially deadlocked, and this gives you that little bit of monetary leeway to wiggle out).

MLS: Old tech. Learn fun skills.  Can be a trap if you're an avoidant procrastinator like me. I remember one time I tried Adderall in college to see if it helped with my adhd. Instead of doing my paper, I ended up going down a wikipedia rabbithole. If the mental calculus of what you're likely to learn from MLS doesn't feel worth the opportunity cost of what you could be doing, then don't run it.


And of course, like I said before, take my advice with a grain of salt. You don't always have to be optimizing or whatever. If you just want to mess around for a bit, and that's your intention, then have fun!

My friend, please don't force yourself if your financial situation is dry. Just run free subs like OSC or EHPRA, or anything you have on your drive, or nothing at all.

I run UMS 5.75G for years, and because it works, I don't intent to upgrade to higher version, I'll just rerun it.

I love DMSI 5.1 because there's self-development feature here, just like mini AM subs but specifically upgrading your sexual chemistry aura plus manifestation bonus, oh don't forget the celebrity effect has huge benefit personally for me in my works.

My 2 cent.

Good luck.

Wow! Thank you both so much for your thoughtful respones! 

First I saw Qiel's response and had this to say: 

_______________________________

(12-17-2025, 08:19 PM)Qiel Wrote: [ -> ]My friend, please don't force yourself if your financial situation is dry. Just run free subs like OSC or EHPRA, or anything you have on your drive, or nothing at all.

I run UMS 5.75G for years, and because it works, I don't intent to upgrade to higher version, I'll just rerun it.

I love DMSI 5.1 because there's self-development feature here, just like mini AM subs but specifically upgrading your sexual chemistry aura plus manifestation bonus, oh don't forget the celebrity effect has huge benefit personally for me in my works.

My 2 cent.

Good luck.

Hmmm. That's an interesting point. 

Yeah, I'm deciding which sub to use out of one's I already have. The older version of DMSI (previous version) WOULD be good, though I have hangup about casual sex, but you make a good point there. 

The AYP subs are the 4g version, the MM sub is a prior version, the MLS sub is (I think) 5g or 5.11g (something like that), I also have UMSv1 (which I totally forgot about) and I am likely about to get a job that could help pay for a new sub. 

I guess I should update the debate: 

Choosing between AYPJRL, AYPORL, DMSI (previous version) and UMSv1. 

AYPJRL: Pros - already listed, but as opposed to AYPORL it's as specific for what I find as ideal as possible with 4g tech. Cons (as opposed to AYPORL) - more limited pool of women to choose from. Might miss out on some REALLY beautiful and really good women. 

AYPORL: Pros and cons are reversed in comparison to AYPJRL.  


UMSv1: Pros- possible long term financial benefits. Cons - key words "possible" and "long term"

DMSI (prior version) - Pros-  HUGE possoble self esteem boost, more immediate benefits than an AYP sub are possible, might change my attitude on hookup culture and if I do, I will have plenty of options (I'm surrounded by attractive college girls), Celebrity effect sounds pretty sweet, I'll have more food available, might have to work through certain hangup, AM-like aspects focused on sexual attractiveness, which should make me more generally attractive to whoever I get with when I do use an AYP or MYP sub and I'll get better at flirting and going for womn I want Cons - frustration with lack of results, temptation to overplay my hand trying to use the remote sniping feature (with little success), frustration with aura's limited range, difficul to control masurbatory habits cuz I'll be SUPER horny so I'll not get full benefits, self sabotage from sexual hangups, might be forced to confront dark stuff goin on under the surface of my psyche in a less controlled, holistic and smooth way than say PRA, E7, OGSF, etc, (trauma or whatever it is), whatever girl(s) I hook up with won't be "perfect" as sexual or romantic lovers and might be incredibly untrustworthy people or boring lays for all I know, risk of STD or unwanted pregnancy.  

Then again, if I just use DMSI as a self development tool, many of those cons will be negated. In which case, it's more of a "I'm sexy and I know it) sub. And it DOES feel ood when you get a hit. 

Hmmm...

I think it's between AYPJRL and DMSI (previous version) 


The cons for DMSI are more serious than the AYP sub, but the benefits actually feel like they'd pair well with it as a prelude. I could use DMSI for a while to become a generally more attractive man and then when I get my "perfect" romantic lover, I will be more desirable to her, which improves the dynamics more and my self esteem more and it's not like I HAVE to hook up with strangers. I can use it for self development purposes. 
-----------------------------------------------------------

Then I aw Frosted's response and it really changed the way I was looking at it: 

(12-17-2025, 12:21 PM)Frosted Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-17-2025, 08:01 AM)EvolvingPhoenix Wrote: [ -> ]So I'm not sure what to go with next, now that I'm done with my latest run of E7.

I'm choosing between an AYP sub (AYPJRL or AYPORL), MLS (an older version) or MMv1. I don't have the money for a new sub and I want to use something else because while I'm grateful for the progress made with EHPRA (especially E7) I feel like I'm tired of only ever focusing on self healing and probably have reached that unconscious boredom phase of subliminal usage.  

I've been wanting to use an MYP or an AYP sub for a long time now, but the versions I have are rather outdated and an updated version of AYPRL is (according to Shannon) planned for sometime in the nearer future.  

So if I wait to get it, I'll still wanna use something else. I could use MM and get m finances in order, but I'm not sure how well MMv1 did or did not work when I used it because it was subtle. On the other hand, MLS could be useful for learning a simple instrument like harmonica and improving songwriting so I can make music, but I have a number of issues limiting the full usage I could get out of it lately. The AYP sub could get me what I want most lately, but It's such an old version I'll have to basically play my phone for 8 hours straight every night and it sounds like it'll take at least half a year on average to get the results if I properly set it and forget it, which is easier to do if I wait and use an up to date version that probably tales like 15 to 60 minutes for a single loop and doesn't require an 8 hour time commitment every on day. Although knowing current Gen subs it could be a multi stage set when it gets released but will probably be more powerful and effective, maybe even take less time. But I'll need to have the money and don't know if I will. 

So pros and cons laid out, I think I'm lookin at: 

AYP(J/O)RL - 8 hour time commitment per on day, 6-12 month time commitment, possible failure to properly execute and older tech being less powerful, but I get an ideal girlfriend if I do properly execute and I don't have to keep waiting just to pull the trigger, which I'm sick of. 

MM - Pro: more money. I like money. Who doesn't, except maybe a communist or something.  And they don't really hate money, they hate not having it or maybe other people having more of it. Cons: I dunno how much more money I'll be getting than I otherwise would, so I don't know how much or how little it will have been worth the time. 

MLS: Pros - learn new skills I want to develop, such as songwriting,  lyricism, Harmonica, cooking skills, metal growling, rapping, musical improvisation (be it singing, rapping or whatever) and maybe some other cool stuff I'm interested in. Cons - I can't access a lot of the heavy metal type beats I purchased that I wanted to write songs for and my house is so chaotic lately with lengthy renovations that have gone on for half a year and might be going on for another 6 or so months before everything is in order that I can barely find any of the stuff I usually use to make music with, so I'm probably better off waiting until things are in order first and Savin that for later. Pulling the trigger on an AYP sub is a lot easier than pulling the trigger on songwriting lately and frankly I can still make progress at being a siner/songwriter by just focusing on vocal exercises so my singing itself is better. Plenty of YT videos that are useful towards that end are free. Also, Harmonica should be an easy instrument anyway. Guilt, shame and fear are .y biggest creative setbacks and other subs are better for clearing those issues. 


Writing that, I feel I should hold off on MLS, so it's between MMv1 and AYP(J/O)RL. 
Improving my finances could be REALLY helpful towards a lot of things, but it looks like my job interview for a full time $16/hr job within walking distance of my house (I live with my folks, taking care of rent, utilities and food expenses) which (at full time) comes with PTO and full benefits went well and I'll probably get the job as soon as I get drug tested and the results come back clean. So how much difference will MM REALLY make? I honestly don't know. 

You know what? I should probably  pull the trigger on the AYP sub. Thanks @Shannon for the advice! The pro/con list was petty helpful!

Okay, so unless anyone else has ay advice that changes my perspective,  I'ma go with AYP(J/O)RL. Now I just need to decide which of the two subs to go with. Probably J cuz I'm kind of a weeb. If so, I'll just post here when I've started and then stop posting until the results occur.

From what I remember from what you've said in the past, it sounds like you're really dissatisfied with your life. If that's the case I wouldn't waste time on any of those subs unless you think it's going to make significant progress towards where you want to be on a core level. Any sub that is a maybe when your life sucks is not worth it in my eyes. I'd rather always be getting value. If I were in your shoes and I had to pick one of those I'd pick MLS because it gives the most tangible benefit. But that's only if you're sure it's worth it in your head. If I'm way off base though, feel free to take what I say with a grain of salt. 

AYP: Old tech, 6m-1y for MAYBE getting a girlfriend. Big chance of self sabotage. Where could you have been in 6months-1year of using something like E7 or PTSDRA or even DMSI? Opportunity cost is a real thing.

MM: Fun sub, but intangible benefit. If you feel like your life sucks I recommend running something else. Is it likely to help if it works? Yes. If it does, is it likely to change your life? Consider opportunity cost. While running it maybe you gain a couple hundred bucks or something, but you could have spent that time growing into the person who has the life you want. If you're really tight on finances and you think spending a couple months to MAYBE gain a little in finances is worth it then that's fine. I think the real magic with MM would from when you're in a place to leverage the manifestation. Basically I view it as a win more mechanic, or as a last ditch effort (financially deadlocked, and this gives you that little bit of monetary leeway to wiggle out).

MLS: Old tech. Learn fun skills.  Can be a trap if you're an avoidant procrastinator like me. I remember one time I tried Adderall in college to see if it helped with my adhd. Instead of doing my paper, I ended up going down a wikipedia rabbithole. If the mental calculus of what you're likely to learn from MLS doesn't feel worth the opportunity cost of what you could be doing, then don't run it.


And of course, like I said before, take my advice with a grain of salt. You don't always have to be optimizing or whatever. If you just want to mess around for a bit, and that's your intention, then have fun!

So maybe it ought to be between DMSI (prior version) and MLS (also prior version)

Both can be really useful for self development and getting more immediate value.from the sub. MLS is a bit tricky, because I AM a chronic procrastinator like Frosted and like I said, my current setup isn't optimal for making full use of MLS. But DMSI WILL have guaranteed benefits and most of the costs can be avoided with cautious and prudent decision making. 

Y'know what? I might go back to using DMSI! 

@Qieland @Frostedwhat do you two think? I'm curious to hear your honest feedback and thank you both sobmuch for he insightful advice and taking your time to read these and respond!

Anyone else with any advice or feedback, also feel free to comment. Any input is appreciated.

@EvolvingPhoenix

I’m going to buy MLS 6G most likely. Right now, I’m running LTUv6 Stage 7 refresher, and I think it’s really helped my mental health which is the source of success for everything else in life. LTUv6 is 5.75G. With that being said, I won’t know if I’ll buy it until the description comes out to see if it’s worth it, but I believe learning is paramount to being successful. I don’t know if DMSI would help with that. Yes, it provides growth in the sexual direction and self development as a byproduct, but I don’t think it would be helpful if I were you to become financially stable. I could be wrong because only you know your situation best, but that’s just me.

I ran DMSI 6G, and I had a good deal of resistance against it. Unfortunately, it didn’t achieve the design goals as I also have hangups around casual sex. Did I grow through it? Hard to say. Everyone’s experience is different, but I would understand Frosted’s viewpoint of using MLS most likely or going with what will improve your life in the long term like PTSD Recovery Aid. With the previous version or the new version depending on your financial situation for either MLS 6G or PSTD Rec. Aid(or the free version of EHPRA).

(12-18-2025, 05:37 AM)Sky Wrote: [ -> ]@EvolvingPhoenix

I’m going to buy MLS 6G most likely. Right now, I’m running LTUv6 Stage 7 refresher, and I think it’s really helped my mental health which is the source of success for everything else in life. LTUv6 is 5.75G. With that being said, I won’t know if I’ll buy it until the description comes out to see if it’s worth it, but I believe learning is paramount to being successful. I don’t know if DMSI would help with that. Yes, it provides growth in the sexual direction and self development as a byproduct, but I don’t think it would be helpful if I were you to become financially stable. I could be wrong because only you know your situation best, but that’s just me.

I ran DMSI 6G, and I had a good deal of resistance against it. Unfortunately, it didn’t achieve the design goals as I also have hangups around casual sex. Did I grow through it? Hard to say. Everyone’s experience is different, but I would understand Frosted’s viewpoint of using MLS most likely or going with what will improve your life in the long term like PTSD Recovery Aid. With the previous version or the new version depending on your financial situation for either MLS 6G or PSTD Rec. Aid(or the free version of EHPRA).

Thank you for your reply, Sky. 

Hmm... you raise a good point. I should mention it's an older version of MLS I would be using,  but still was useful to some extent. 


If I DO use MLS, I ought to have a progrM in place to put it's use to practice.  Something structured enough for me to actually practice the things I'd be doing, like online lessons with structure behind them. Simple ones that are straightforward because one issue is, I go on youtube and there's TOO MUCH content to consume, I don't know what to start with, where to go from there nor do I have straightforward practices, mostly jut useful concept to apply to a regimen they assume I already have in place. 

Still, that probably shouldn't be so hard, now that I think of it. 

I have a harmonica and should be able o find SOME channel with a basic regimen. 

Writing melodies, verses and hooks should be simple. Problem is, I need music to write those things for/on and I do not have access to all that music I have purchased to do vocals on. Things are I. Such disarray,  it'll be a while. 


How long is a cycle for the previous  DMSI and how long is one for the prior version of MLS?

(12-18-2025, 06:46 AM)EvolvingPhoenix Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-18-2025, 05:37 AM)Sky Wrote: [ -> ]@EvolvingPhoenix

I’m going to buy MLS 6G most likely. Right now, I’m running LTUv6 Stage 7 refresher, and I think it’s really helped my mental health which is the source of success for everything else in life. LTUv6 is 5.75G. With that being said, I won’t know if I’ll buy it until the description comes out to see if it’s worth it, but I believe learning is paramount to being successful. I don’t know if DMSI would help with that. Yes, it provides growth in the sexual direction and self development as a byproduct, but I don’t think it would be helpful if I were you to become financially stable. I could be wrong because only you know your situation best, but that’s just me.

I ran DMSI 6G, and I had a good deal of resistance against it. Unfortunately, it didn’t achieve the design goals as I also have hangups around casual sex. Did I grow through it? Hard to say. Everyone’s experience is different, but I would understand Frosted’s viewpoint of using MLS most likely or going with what will improve your life in the long term like PTSD Recovery Aid. With the previous version or the new version depending on your financial situation for either MLS 6G or PSTD Rec. Aid(or the free version of EHPRA).

Thank you for your reply, Sky. 

Hmm... you raise a good point. I should mention it's an older version of MLS I would be using,  but still was useful to some extent. 


If I DO use MLS, I ought to have a progrM in place to put it's use to practice.  Something structured enough for me to actually practice the things I'd be doing, like online lessons with structure behind them. Simple ones that are straightforward because one issue is, I go on youtube and there's TOO MUCH content to consume, I don't know what to start with, where to go from there nor do I have straightforward practices, mostly jut useful concept to apply to a regimen they assume I already have in place. 

Still, that probably shouldn't be so hard, now that I think of it. 

I have a harmonica and should be able o find SOME channel with a basic regimen. 

Writing melodies, verses and hooks should be simple. Problem is, I need music to write those things for/on and I do not have access to all that music I have purchased to do vocals on. Things are I. Such disarray,  it'll be a while. 


How long is a cycle for the previous  DMSI and how long is one for the prior version of MLS?

For hard cases for dmsi it’s 3 days on and 2 days off. I don’t know the directions for the previous dmsi.

(12-18-2025, 07:07 AM)Sky Wrote: [ -> ] 

For hard cases for dmsi it’s 3 days on and 2 days off. I don’t know the directions for the previous dmsi.

 Okay, thanks for that info.  Do you know the directions for he previous MLS?

(12-18-2025, 07:16 AM)EvolvingPhoenix Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-18-2025, 07:07 AM)Sky Wrote: [ -> ] 

For hard cases for dmsi it’s 3 days on and 2 days off. I don’t know the directions for the previous dmsi.

 Okay, thanks for that info.  Do you know the directions for he previous MLS?

I’m sorry I don’t know the previous MLS directions.

(12-18-2025, 07:53 AM)Sky Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-18-2025, 07:16 AM)EvolvingPhoenix Wrote: [ -> ] Okay, thanks for that info.  Do you know the directions for he previous MLS?

I’m sorry I don’t know the previous MLS directions.

Okay, well thanks dude.

@EvolvingPhoenix

If you run DMSI don't run it expecting external results. Just run it for self improvement and to see what happens. It's also in the ballpark of your desired goal with the AYP subs. If you get lucky you might be one of the few who get easy results (unlikely, given the blockages you've talked about in the past, but technically possible). DMSI is also superior to an AYP in the sense that DMSI makes you more attractive even when you stop running it. So in the long run AYP requires you to keep running it wheras DMSI might not after enough development.

If you run MLS, just expect to probably get inconsistent results, since you mentioned being a procrastinator.

Basically I would just view this time as a break. With DMSI you're likely to make some progress that will carry over if and when you go back to healing. With MLS it's more likely to be just whatever knowledge/skills you gain while on it. But if you're just optimizing for fun then it's fine. Especially if you just decide to run it for a month or two or something.

If it were me I'd just be laser focused on healing until I reach a certain threshold at the very least (which is why that's all I've been running for years now, and it's been paying off). But that's because I value the deep long term results I'm after and willing to pay the price to get them. But you're not me, so take what I say and decide what you want to do based on the overall trajectory you want to be on.

(12-18-2025, 05:06 AM)EvolvingPhoenix Wrote: [ -> ]Wow! Thank you both so much for your thoughtful respones! 

First I saw Qiel's response and had this to say: 

_______________________________

(12-17-2025, 08:19 PM)Qiel Wrote: [ -> ]My friend, please don't force yourself if your financial situation is dry. Just run free subs like OSC or EHPRA, or anything you have on your drive, or nothing at all.

I run UMS 5.75G for years, and because it works, I don't intent to upgrade to higher version, I'll just rerun it.

I love DMSI 5.1 because there's self-development feature here, just like mini AM subs but specifically upgrading your sexual chemistry aura plus manifestation bonus, oh don't forget the celebrity effect has huge benefit personally for me in my works.

My 2 cent.

Good luck.

Hmmm. That's an interesting point. 

Yeah, I'm deciding which sub to use out of one's I already have. The older version of DMSI (previous version) WOULD be good, though I have hangup about casual sex, but you make a good point there. 

The AYP subs are the 4g version, the MM sub is a prior version, the MLS sub is (I think) 5g or 5.11g (something like that), I also have UMSv1 (which I totally forgot about) and I am likely about to get a job that could help pay for a new sub. 

I guess I should update the debate: 

Choosing between AYPJRL, AYPORL, DMSI (previous version) and UMSv1. 

AYPJRL: Pros - already listed, but as opposed to AYPORL it's as specific for what I find as ideal as possible with 4g tech. Cons (as opposed to AYPORL) - more limited pool of women to choose from. Might miss out on some REALLY beautiful and really good women. 

AYPORL: Pros and cons are reversed in comparison to AYPJRL.  


UMSv1: Pros- possible long term financial benefits. Cons - key words "possible" and "long term"

DMSI (prior version) - Pros-  HUGE possoble self esteem boost, more immediate benefits than an AYP sub are possible, might change my attitude on hookup culture and if I do, I will have plenty of options (I'm surrounded by attractive college girls), Celebrity effect sounds pretty sweet, I'll have more food available, might have to work through certain hangup, AM-like aspects focused on sexual attractiveness, which should make me more generally attractive to whoever I get with when I do use an AYP or MYP sub and I'll get better at flirting and going for womn I want Cons - frustration with lack of results, temptation to overplay my hand trying to use the remote sniping feature (with little success), frustration with aura's limited range, difficul to control masurbatory habits cuz I'll be SUPER horny so I'll not get full benefits, self sabotage from sexual hangups, might be forced to confront dark stuff goin on under the surface of my psyche in a less controlled, holistic and smooth way than say PRA, E7, OGSF, etc, (trauma or whatever it is), whatever girl(s) I hook up with won't be "perfect" as sexual or romantic lovers and might be incredibly untrustworthy people or boring lays for all I know, risk of STD or unwanted pregnancy.  

Then again, if I just use DMSI as a self development tool, many of those cons will be negated. In which case, it's more of a "I'm sexy and I know it) sub. And it DOES feel ood when you get a hit. 

Hmmm...

I think it's between AYPJRL and DMSI (previous version) 


The cons for DMSI are more serious than the AYP sub, but the benefits actually feel like they'd pair well with it as a prelude. I could use DMSI for a while to become a generally more attractive man and then when I get my "perfect" romantic lover, I will be more desirable to her, which improves the dynamics more and my self esteem more and it's not like I HAVE to hook up with strangers. I can use it for self development purposes. 
-----------------------------------------------------------

Then I aw Frosted's response and it really changed the way I was looking at it: 

(12-17-2025, 12:21 PM)Frosted Wrote: [ -> ]From what I remember from what you've said in the past, it sounds like you're really dissatisfied with your life. If that's the case I wouldn't waste time on any of those subs unless you think it's going to make significant progress towards where you want to be on a core level. Any sub that is a maybe when your life sucks is not worth it in my eyes. I'd rather always be getting value. If I were in your shoes and I had to pick one of those I'd pick MLS because it gives the most tangible benefit. But that's only if you're sure it's worth it in your head. If I'm way off base though, feel free to take what I say with a grain of salt. 

AYP: Old tech, 6m-1y for MAYBE getting a girlfriend. Big chance of self sabotage. Where could you have been in 6months-1year of using something like E7 or PTSDRA or even DMSI? Opportunity cost is a real thing.

MM: Fun sub, but intangible benefit. If you feel like your life sucks I recommend running something else. Is it likely to help if it works? Yes. If it does, is it likely to change your life? Consider opportunity cost. While running it maybe you gain a couple hundred bucks or something, but you could have spent that time growing into the person who has the life you want. If you're really tight on finances and you think spending a couple months to MAYBE gain a little in finances is worth it then that's fine. I think the real magic with MM would from when you're in a place to leverage the manifestation. Basically I view it as a win more mechanic, or as a last ditch effort (financially deadlocked, and this gives you that little bit of monetary leeway to wiggle out).

MLS: Old tech. Learn fun skills.  Can be a trap if you're an avoidant procrastinator like me. I remember one time I tried Adderall in college to see if it helped with my adhd. Instead of doing my paper, I ended up going down a wikipedia rabbithole. If the mental calculus of what you're likely to learn from MLS doesn't feel worth the opportunity cost of what you could be doing, then don't run it.


And of course, like I said before, take my advice with a grain of salt. You don't always have to be optimizing or whatever. If you just want to mess around for a bit, and that's your intention, then have fun!

So maybe it ought to be between DMSI (prior version) and MLS (also prior version)

Both can be really useful for self development and getting more immediate value.from the sub. MLS is a bit tricky, because I AM a chronic procrastinator like Frosted and like I said, my current setup isn't optimal for making full use of MLS. But DMSI WILL have guaranteed benefits and most of the costs can be avoided with cautious and prudent decision making. 

Y'know what? I might go back to using DMSI! 

@Qieland @Frostedwhat do you two think? I'm curious to hear your honest feedback and thank you both sobmuch for he insightful advice and taking your time to read these and respond!

Anyone else with any advice or feedback,  also feel free to comment. Any input is appreciated.

I prefer off subs for at least a month so you train what 'fire and forget' feels like without subs, then after you know how to handle expectation, run any subs that you've most least expectation about the result.

DMSI is manifestation subs, the rule of manifestation subs "silent is golden", no need to journaling much because you'll attract bad intention and jealousy towards you. No it's not mumbo-jumbo, Shannon said this long ago and that's what I did.

Hope it helps.

What if Shannon releases a free or not free sub based on his models & algorithm and which will guide users to choose the best possible next subs to purchase/subscribe based on the user’s own subconscious feedback.