Shannon's Journal Discussion

[SargeMaximus]

To be fair, I haven't heard of one person on here, gay or bisexual who is interested in the program

I'm interested, so now you have.

But I'm confused, Sarge. You aren't using DMSI anyway, aren't you on AM6? If you're bisexual, AM6 is designed for heterosexuals. "Only works for heterosexual males of at least 18 years of age". I haven't followed your journal admittedly as I tend to focus on subs I am listening to and haven't ran AM6 in awhile, but if you've struggled to see benefits from AM6 besides OGSF and E1, that's likely why. My brother is gay, and during my AM6 run when he was living with me and sleeping within hearing distance of my speaker use at night, he was absolutely getting solid benefits from the OGSF and E1 from my speakers at night, but of course not the main program due to the gender/orientation limiters. Going into his past, painful things dealt with, people dealt with, ALL textbook OGSF and E1 experiences, stuff he hasn't thought of for years and only started once I started AM6. My theory is, for AM6, Shannon added the orientation gender stuff for the main AM6 course, but obviously E1 and OGSF were left without tags for orientation at least, if not for gender as well, hence why my brother benefited.

Didn't mean to elaborate so much there lol, but the experience with my brother was notable and pleasantly unexpected as I was happy he gained somewhat "bonus" benefit and does have a lot of demons from his past. And it was not something I think I've mentioned before on the forum. So I took the opportunity now!

Good to hear about your brother's benefit.

As for me and AM 6, well... exactly lol. I was one of the main (if not the only) people who advocated a gender neutral design to new subs, specifically because of the problem you mentioned.

In my opinion, one doesn't need to be straight to be a man that women find attractive (indeed, it's obviously not the case. A life coach I had for a while is BI and he gets tons of pussy).

The issue, I think, comes down to making the orientation distinction (i.e. the whole "if I am a heterosexual male" phrasing).

In my opinion it makes little sense to even have that phrasing because Shannon has anti-piracy in it which means no one but the owner should be using it anyways. It then becomes irrelevant whether the user is straight, bi, or whatever because they will simply act on the instructions.

Like I said, i don't know why Shannon can't make the programing say something like "women try to seduce me into sex". The distinction of orientation is a mystery to me, especially if we're making subliminals that are about getting sex from women (again, you don't have to be straight to want this, you don't even have to be male, so why would you make a sub that is about sex with women make all kinds of orientation distinctions? It makes no sense. You do not need to be any orientation to want sex with women. Hell even dolphins have f*cked women before, so there you go.)

I may be naive about subs, but I'm always of the opinion that simplicity is best.

I also think that by making orientation phrasing and such we are confusing the mind more.

If women find X variable to be attractive, why not simply focus on X variable instead of XYZ? Again, it makes no sense to me.

Now of course, DMSI is supposed to attract any gender you are interested in, but it's a small distinction as you could simply word it "people want to have sex with me" and then it simply becomes an issue of whether you allow it or not.

Anyhow, that's where I stand.

[Shannon]

To be fair, I haven't heard of one person on here, gay or bisexual who is interested in the program

I'm interested, so now you have.

But I'm confused, Sarge. You aren't using DMSI anyway, aren't you on AM6? If you're bisexual, AM6 is designed for heterosexuals. "Only works for heterosexual males of at least 18 years of age". I haven't followed your journal admittedly as I tend to focus on subs I am listening to and haven't ran AM6 in awhile, but if you've struggled to see benefits from AM6 besides OGSF and E1, that's likely why. My brother is gay, and during my AM6 run when he was living with me and sleeping within hearing distance of my speaker use at night, he was absolutely getting solid benefits from the OGSF and E1 from my speakers at night, but of course not the main program due to the gender/orientation limiters. Going into his past, painful things dealt with, people dealt with, ALL textbook OGSF and E1 experiences, stuff he hasn't thought of for years and only started once I started AM6. My theory is, for AM6, Shannon added the orientation gender stuff for the main AM6 course, but obviously E1 and OGSF were left without tags for orientation at least, if not for gender as well, hence why my brother benefited.

Didn't mean to elaborate so much there lol, but the experience with my brother was notable and pleasantly unexpected as I was happy he gained somewhat "bonus" benefit and does have a lot of demons from his past. And it was not something I think I've mentioned before on the forum. So I took the opportunity now!

Good to hear about your brother's benefit.

As for me and AM 6, well... exactly lol. I was one of the main (if not the only) people who advocated a gender neutral design to new subs, specifically because of the problem you mentioned.

In my opinion, one doesn't need to be straight to be a man that women find attractive (indeed, it's obviously not the case. A life coach I had for a while is BI and he gets tons of pussy).

The issue, I think, comes down to making the orientation distinction (i.e. the whole "if I am a heterosexual male" phrasing).

In my opinion it makes little sense to even have that phrasing because Shannon has anti-piracy in it which means no one but the owner should be using it anyways. It then becomes irrelevant whether the user is straight, bi, or whatever because they will simply act on the instructions.

Like I said, i don't know why Shannon can't make the programing say something like "women try to seduce me into sex". The distinction of orientation is a mystery to me, especially if we're making subliminals that are about getting sex from women (again, you don't have to be straight to want this, you don't even have to be male, so why would you make a sub that is about sex with women make all kinds of orientation distinctions? It makes no sense. You do not need to be any orientation to want sex with women. Hell even dolphins have f*cked women before, so there you go.)

I may be naive about subs, but I'm always of the opinion that simplicity is best.

I also think that by making orientation phrasing and such we are confusing the mind more.

If women find X variable to be attractive, why not simply focus on X variable instead of XYZ? Again, it makes no sense to me.

Now of course, DMSI is supposed to attract any gender you are interested in, but it's a small distinction as you could simply word it "people want to have sex with me" and then it simply becomes an issue of whether you allow it or not.

Anyhow, that's where I stand.

The gender specification in AM, etc. is there to prevent it from adversely affecting people who are not of the appropriate sexual identity for what it is telling you to do. In other words, I'm trying to respect that not every man who is exposed may want to be exposed, or may want to have the SM lead in, etc.

[TheChosenOne]

I've always said that Shannon can't be a "valid tester" in a attraction/manifestation sub because he knows EXACTLY what is in the script EVERY TIME. Therefore, his thinking, attitudes, emotional state, and actions have the potential to be in alignment 100% of the time. No one else really "knows" whats in the script because of trade secrets (which is understandable).

Shannon's not the ideal tester, and because he recognizes that, you guys are also testing. If I was the only tester I ever needed, this would be a lot easier.

That said, me knowing what goes into the script doesn't completely invalidate my results. The reason I do testing is to counterbalance what you guys experience, because I am a different breed than most of you. I understand a lot of things that are not commonly understood, and I have a lot less blockages than most people do. But me getting result X doesn't really mean a whole lot, it's just aimed at giving me a more wholistic point of view of what needs to be done.

Nobody is invalidating your results. I am simply stating that you knowing what goes into the script is a major advantage, and that you don't realize or forget that it's an advantage.

A lot of times when he's frustrated and asks why is everyone "resisting so hard" or "not following instructions" this is probably one of the main reasons why (I think he forgets). That, and people are unaware of how the (subconscious) mind is operating/influenced and how "beliefs are created and replaced" (authority figures, brainwaves, repetition, intense emotional states, real-life manifestations, etc)

The majority of guys don't follow instructions for shit most of the time, and you all know it. And some of you are resisting with everything you've got. That's not me imagining things.

When I say instructions I'm talking about the sub being a "set of instructions" to follow as you refer to it. Not the instructions in general. Ironically, a lot of people DO follow instructions, and still don't get results. In that case the program is usually upgraded. And people will usually do what you do, not what you say. So if you use BAMM with DMSI and get results, why can't they use another sub with it and get the same results. Chaosvrgn used AM6 with it and got great results. Maybe the initial option B version is the best.[b]

I also understand why people are so obsessed with "healing" outside of true medical/traumatic reasons. A lot of people think they can "heal" all there problems away, until all the problems are gone.... Then, magically they are going to get everything they want out of life. It would be great but we are mortal beings with a limited amount of time on Earth to get things done (at least physically). How much time does a world-class Chef spend "Healing" (a lot less time than his ACTUAL TIME cooking). You can heal every aspect of your life regarding the subject of food/cooking for years and go into the kitchen and still not be able to make one good meal. The problem I'm noticing is Motivation and Confidence not Fear and Healing.

I wasn't the one who started calling it healing when I was putting it in DMSI. It was intended to clear blockages - primarily fears. Healing is what everyone started calling it. Really it's clearing blockages and outgrowing them.

People started calling it healing when the EHPRA element was added, which would be correct, since that is what it does, right?[/b]

Your analogy is a red herring. Cooks don't cook better if they go through emotional healing. Their function as a cook or chef does not require them to be emotionally healthy to be effective and successful. But if you're too afraid to execute the script because of some past trauma or some fear, then you need to overcome that before you can achieve success with DMSI.

The analogy is pretty spot on if you want to be great at something...Mastery. But maybe these subs aren't aim towards that yet. To your point, being emotionally healthy is not a requisite to approaching and having sex with beautiful women either or being effective. Chaosvrgn slept with his friend's girlfriend and had lots of guilt and fears about it initially and it still worked.[b]

"Healing-Therapy-Eliminating Fears" is a very profitable industry. A person doesn't have to be actually broken, you just have to make them believe they are (such as BIG PHARMA and some personal development out there such as Pickup Artist - not all of them).

This sounds like you're implying that I'm trying to distract people from something else by claiming they aren't getting results because they need the growth past fears an traumas.

[b]I was having great results with Version 1, and the majority of the subs I've purchased from you the past 4 years, but you're being extremely defensive. In the context of my post, I am stating and have been stating throughout the whole post that I believe Confidence and Motivation (ACTION) is the issue, and using examples of areas in real-life where people are getting bad advice regarding their self-identity and that they are not as messed up as they think they are, and not to over-obsess over past issues and take action. I can tell you are "disconnected" from the common person by making everything personally about you. I am not the passive-aggressive type that you perceiving me to be. [b]

If Shannon said, he would give $200 USD to every woman you approached using DMSI (solo), but you had to give a brief detailed explanation of each approach daily (by 11:59 pm EST) such as location, age, time of day, etc. these conversations about DMSI would be very different. I also bet it would get very competitive very quickly (so, how many did you approach today). NOBODY would be sitting back focused on "healing" or resistance" unless it was an absolute (obvious/definite). The goal in the example above would be (Confidence-Motivation) moving towards perceived pleasure vs (Fear-Healing) running/hiding from perceived pain.

Right now, the goal is to get people to open up and execute the script. The motivation is sex. But a lot of these guys are too afraid. And, there's the issue of what is not perfect in the script yet? We don't know. That's what we're working on 2.3 and 2.4 and 3.0 and...

The reward is sex, but it's being perceived as painful. Sounds like a confidence issue

There's also this obsession with IOI's (Indicator's of Interest.) Just because a woman shows interest, doesn't mean she's down to have sex with you. Indicator of INTEREST is NOT an Indicator of SEX. Women are "interested" or show signs of "interest" in men for very different reasons. Some for money, some for sex, some for attention, some to use you and manipulate you "because she can", some because they're lonely, some for social status and elevation, some for EGO and self-pride, some for personal revenge, and the list goes on and on....

It is correct to say that not every indicator of interest is an indicator of interest in having sex. It is incorrect to presume that that logically means that no IOIs indicate that state.

IOIs can be given that unquestionably indicate the desire to achieve sex. Showing me her underwear by blatantly spreading her legs at me and holding that position while she stares into my eyes, that's one such IOI. I am working on finding ways to document some of the IOIs I get so you all will understand that I'm not imagining things.

Again, nobody is saying YOU are imagining things. You're a little paranoid that people have it out for you. I am simply stating that there are various motivations of IOI and not all of them equate to sex...

The goal of this program, is to make a woman APPROACH YOU and ACTIVELY initiate a sexual sequence, regardless of what you look like or are wearing (external circumstances). An IOI is NOT an APPROACH. The picture I got when I heard women APPROACH YOU is either a celebrity/popular vibe (where she won't be socially chastised for approaching you) or for example a stripper, when she makes direct eye contact and starts walking towards you (even though the intention is money). In other words, the approach is very DIRECT and OBVIOUS (like giving someone money vs flashing money at someone).

We have already repeatedly determined that to a lot of women, an IOI is an approach in their mind. You are thinking like a man, and she is not.

But this was not how the program was initially marketed on the forums. If that was the case I wouldn't have bought it, because I already get IOI all the time just from being physically fit. An IOI is an IOI. I guess this is determined culturally by where you live and external factors, because in Las Vegas, this is definitely not the case. A woman approaching a man directly is completely different from a woman showing an IOI.[/b]

This program seems to be evolving more towards Sex Magnet (Seducer), than AOSI/DMSI (Seduced). If this is occurring, I can see why people who bought it/contributed to it in the earlier stages would be upset or very critical. Consumers hate stagnation, and the bait-and-switch model which so many people have been "victims" by companies may be "triggering/anchoring" people.

I'm trying to get both parties to act on their desires, because right now, guys are not usually using the program in situations where sex is reasonable to expect in a response. [Sexually graphic comment - unsuitable language. Moderators take note.] in public anyone? Bend her over the bar? Not likely, no matter what the circumstances are. How many guys are using it on a date, or while they are alone with a woman? And how many of them are getting results? But in both directions, we have the social inhibitions and fears to deal with while there is not enough privacy. So we need to get both parties working toward the same goal.

[/b]Again, the goal initially of the program was to flip the tables. No guy on here is expecting blatant bending over the bar sex in public as you stated above. You are exaggerating A LOT because I specifically stated that's not the case in my deleted "sexually graphic comment". It seems that you're only motivation is pushing an agenda and condescending people when this post was to inform people but you took it as a personal attack. I was right in my assessment before I made this post that I should just not contribute to the forum anymore[b]

[SargeMaximus]

The gender specification in AM, etc. is there to prevent it from adversely affecting people who are not of the appropriate sexual identity for what it is telling you to do. In other words, I'm trying to respect that not every man who is exposed may want to be exposed, or may want to have the SM lead in, etc.

But that's what I don't get, is the program telling you to become "straight" or an alpha male? Because one doesn't have to be straight to be an alpha male.

[Shannon]

The gender specification in AM, etc. is there to prevent it from adversely affecting people who are not of the appropriate sexual identity for what it is telling you to do. In other words, I'm trying to respect that not every man who is exposed may want to be exposed, or may want to have the SM lead in, etc.

But that's what I don't get, is the program telling you to become "straight" or an alpha male? Because one doesn't have to be straight to be an alpha male.

It's not telling you to become straight. It's telling you to ignore the instructions if you're not straight, because they might conflict with not being straight.

[SargeMaximus]

The gender specification in AM, etc. is there to prevent it from adversely affecting people who are not of the appropriate sexual identity for what it is telling you to do. In other words, I'm trying to respect that not every man who is exposed may want to be exposed, or may want to have the SM lead in, etc.

But that's what I don't get, is the program telling you to become "straight" or an alpha male? Because one doesn't have to be straight to be an alpha male.

It's not telling you to become straight. It's telling you to ignore the instructions if you're not straight, because they might conflict with not being straight.

Yes but why would they conflict with not being straight? Isn't AM just about having self-validation, OGSF, and stuff like that?

[Shannon]

I've always said that Shannon can't be a "valid tester" in a attraction/manifestation sub because he knows EXACTLY what is in the script EVERY TIME. Therefore, his thinking, attitudes, emotional state, and actions have the potential to be in alignment 100% of the time. No one else really "knows" whats in the script because of trade secrets (which is understandable).

Shannon's not the ideal tester, and because he recognizes that, you guys are also testing. If I was the only tester I ever needed, this would be a lot easier.

That said, me knowing what goes into the script doesn't completely invalidate my results. The reason I do testing is to counterbalance what you guys experience, because I am a different breed than most of you. I understand a lot of things that are not commonly understood, and I have a lot less blockages than most people do. But me getting result X doesn't really mean a whole lot, it's just aimed at giving me a more wholistic point of view of what needs to be done.

Nobody is invalidating your results. I am simply stating that you knowing what goes into the script is a major advantage, and that you don't realize or forget that it's an advantage.

It's not really an advantage. I don't consciously remember what goes into the scripts while I am testing them in 99% of cases, because they're simply too long and complex. In DMSI, the script is 23 pages long, and each statement is extremely complex grammar. I have to work on it in small chunks at a time because of this. I only remember small amounts of what's in it consciously because of this, and not even for very long.

What you're taking as an advantage is more a disadvantage because I can't just do all my own testing because of it. And, the fact that I get better apparent results has a lot to do with knowing what is going on when I am around others. I'm just trained to be more observant and more experienced at reading body language accurately than most people.

A lot of times when he's frustrated and asks why is everyone "resisting so hard" or "not following instructions" this is probably one of the main reasons why (I think he forgets). That, and people are unaware of how the (subconscious) mind is operating/influenced and how "beliefs are created and replaced" (authority figures, brainwaves, repetition, intense emotional states, real-life manifestations, etc)

The majority of guys don't follow instructions for shit most of the time, and you all know it. And some of you are resisting with everything you've got. That's not me imagining things.

When I say instructions I'm talking about the sub being a "set of instructions" to follow as you refer to it. Not the instructions in general. Ironically, a lot of people DO follow instructions, and still don't get results. In that case the program is usually upgraded. And people will usually do what you do, not what you say. So if you use BAMM with DMSI and get results, why can't they use another sub with it and get the same results. Chaosvrgn used AM6 with it and got great results. Maybe the initial option B version is the best.[b]

If you're talking about DMSI, people don't get the goal results for a variety of reasons, but chiefest among them is the combination of they're afraid to act on the instruction set subconsciously, and we don't yet know what the right instruction set is.

As for the "do what I say vs what I do", I cannot help the fact that I am in an impossible position. I have to run BAMM to achieve my goals, and I have to test subs I create. And I can and do keep telling you that it causes problems. That's why I always end up stopping everything else and focusing on BAMM. It's not like I'm trying to claim some sort of special privilege here. I wish I could just run BAMM. You guys can follow the instructions that way - I am responsible for Tier 1 testing for YOUR safety.

I also understand why people are so obsessed with "healing" outside of true medical/traumatic reasons. A lot of people think they can "heal" all there problems away, until all the problems are gone.... Then, magically they are going to get everything they want out of life. It would be great but we are mortal beings with a limited amount of time on Earth to get things done (at least physically). How much time does a world-class Chef spend "Healing" (a lot less time than his ACTUAL TIME cooking). You can heal every aspect of your life regarding the subject of food/cooking for years and go into the kitchen and still not be able to make one good meal. The problem I'm noticing is Motivation and Confidence not Fear and Healing.

I wasn't the one who started calling it healing when I was putting it in DMSI. It was intended to clear blockages - primarily fears. Healing is what everyone started calling it. Really it's clearing blockages and outgrowing them.

People started calling it healing when the EHPRA element was added, which would be correct, since that is what it does, right?[/b]

If healing is necessary, yes, it will trigger healing. But most of you just need to outgrow fears in order to get maximum results. I don't consider that healing. That's just personal growth.

Your analogy is a red herring. Cooks don't cook better if they go through emotional healing. Their function as a cook or chef does not require them to be emotionally healthy to be effective and successful. But if you're too afraid to execute the script because of some past trauma or some fear, then you need to overcome that before you can achieve success with DMSI.

The analogy is pretty spot on if you want to be great at something...Mastery. But maybe these subs aren't aim towards that yet. To your point, being emotionally healthy is not a requisite to approaching and having sex with beautiful women either or being effective. Chaosvrgn slept with his friend's girlfriend and had lots of guilt and fears about it initially and it still worked.[b]

An analogy is supposed to parallel a situation in order to explain it. Cooking vs getting results with DMSI is so far off it's not even an analogy, because they are not analogous!

And when you say that "being emotionally healthy is not a requisite to approaching and having sex with beautiful women either or being effective", you're dead wrong. Being emotionally healthy in the right ways IS a prerequisite, unless you can find one or more females who are emotionally unhealthy in the ways that allow sex to happen.

You will never approach women if you fear them, rejection by them, or sex with them. That fear is not emotionally healthy. You will never allow yourself to have what you resent, have anger towards, or hate. Again, not emotionally healthy, and prevents sexual success. And you will never allow yourself to become what you fear, hate or have anger for - and if that happens to be "guys who are sexually successful", then guess what? More self cockblocking, and again, not emotionally healthy.

Chaos had lots of guilt and fears about aspects of it, but not the aspects of it that prevent sex. You are trying to say that all guilt and fear and shame is the same and has the same effect regardless of what it applies to, which is wrong. If you fear women, no sex. If you fear rejection by women, no sex. If you fear sex, no sex. But if you've overcome those fears you can succeed at getting sex even with fears and guilt, if those fears and guilt do not apply in a way or direction that would prevent sex!

"Healing-Therapy-Eliminating Fears" is a very profitable industry. A person doesn't have to be actually broken, you just have to make them believe they are (such as BIG PHARMA and some personal development out there such as Pickup Artist - not all of them).

This sounds like you're implying that I'm trying to distract people from something else by claiming they aren't getting results because they need the growth past fears an traumas.

[b]I was having great results with Version 1, and the majority of the subs I've purchased from you the past 4 years, but you're being extremely defensive. In the context of my post, I am stating and have been stating throughout the whole post that I believe Confidence and Motivation (ACTION) is the issue, and using examples of areas in real-life where people are getting bad advice regarding their self-identity and that they are not as messed up as they think they are, and not to over-obsess over past issues and take action. I can tell you are "disconnected" from the common person by making everything personally about you. I am not the passive-aggressive type that you perceiving me to be. [b]

I'm not being defensive. I'm stating what I observed. If I was being defensive, I would have claimed you were wrong. I was actually asking if I was right in my observation, because quite literally, that is what you were implying with what you said.

I have to say that from my point of view, you're completely out of touch with what is really going on here. You say I am disconnected from the common person, but I am the common person. You think that because I have this business that somehow I live in an ivory tower? Sorry to hit you with this, bud, but I drive a crappy car and my house needs repairs. And if everything was personally about me, trust me, you and everyone else would know it. I'm Leo, and there's no mistaking it when everything is about a Leo. On the contrary, I have been marvelling lately at how much of my actions and efforts have NOT been about me, even on my damned birthday.

Furthermore, I never said you were passive aggressive, nor did I "perceive you to be". That never crossed my mind. I'm getting the impression that you're just not in a good mood today.

If Shannon said, he would give $200 USD to every woman you approached using DMSI (solo), but you had to give a brief detailed explanation of each approach daily (by 11:59 pm EST) such as location, age, time of day, etc. these conversations about DMSI would be very different. I also bet it would get very competitive very quickly (so, how many did you approach today). NOBODY would be sitting back focused on "healing" or resistance" unless it was an absolute (obvious/definite). The goal in the example above would be (Confidence-Motivation) moving towards perceived pleasure vs (Fear-Healing) running/hiding from perceived pain.

Right now, the goal is to get people to open up and execute the script. The motivation is sex. But a lot of these guys are too afraid. And, there's the issue of what is not perfect in the script yet? We don't know. That's what we're working on 2.3 and 2.4 and 3.0 and...

The reward is sex, but it's being perceived as painful. Sounds like a confidence issue

Or, as I have been saying... people are too afraid of it or something associated to getting to it to act.

There's also this obsession with IOI's (Indicator's of Interest.) Just because a woman shows interest, doesn't mean she's down to have sex with you. Indicator of INTEREST is NOT an Indicator of SEX. Women are "interested" or show signs of "interest" in men for very different reasons. Some for money, some for sex, some for attention, some to use you and manipulate you "because she can", some because they're lonely, some for social status and elevation, some for EGO and self-pride, some for personal revenge, and the list goes on and on....

It is correct to say that not every indicator of interest is an indicator of interest in having sex. It is incorrect to presume that that logically means that no IOIs indicate that state.

IOIs can be given that unquestionably indicate the desire to achieve sex. Showing me her underwear by blatantly spreading her legs at me and holding that position while she stares into my eyes, that's one such IOI. I am working on finding ways to document some of the IOIs I get so you all will understand that I'm not imagining things.

Again, nobody is saying YOU are imagining things. You're a little paranoid that people have it out for you. I am simply stating that there are various motivations of IOI and not all of them equate to sex...

Actually, I have been getting a lot of flak on the forum lately because people are claiming that I don't know what the hell I am talking about when it comes to IOIs. There are several people on this forum who apparently think that. As for the paranoia, it's blatantly apparent that you're not qualified to diagnose paranoia, because that has nothing to do with anything going on. And as to the "simply stating that there are various motivations of IOI and not all of them equate to sex", we agree on that.

The goal of this program, is to make a woman APPROACH YOU and ACTIVELY initiate a sexual sequence, regardless of what you look like or are wearing (external circumstances). An IOI is NOT an APPROACH. The picture I got when I heard women APPROACH YOU is either a celebrity/popular vibe (where she won't be socially chastised for approaching you) or for example a stripper, when she makes direct eye contact and starts walking towards you (even though the intention is money). In other words, the approach is very DIRECT and OBVIOUS (like giving someone money vs flashing money at someone).

We have already repeatedly determined that to a lot of women, an IOI is an approach in their mind. You are thinking like a man, and she is not.

But this was not how the program was initially marketed on the forums. If that was the case I wouldn't have bought it, because I already get IOI all the time just from being physically fit. An IOI is an IOI. I guess this is determined culturally by where you live and external factors, because in Las Vegas, this is definitely not the case. A woman approaching a man directly is completely different from a woman showing an IOI.[/b]

Let's consider the fact, shall we, that I'm not omniscient. I am doing EXPERIMENTAL TESTING because I am NOT OMNISCIENT. I may or may not know everything necessary for me to know to make the program work yet. We are putting out a version, observing what happens, and then adjusting.

I didn't realize that women thought they were approaching by giving IOIs. So if they do, and the program hasn't yet dealt with that, you can't blame me. I learned that because it came out as a result of doing this experimental testing. That is slated for address in a later version.

But again... when you say that "A woman approaching a man directly is completely different from a woman showing an IOI.", you are assuming that all women approach the same way, and that the make version of approach is the only version of approach. Obviously both of these assumptions are wrong, or I would not have to learn about the discrepancy and correct it.

This program seems to be evolving more towards Sex Magnet (Seducer), than AOSI/DMSI (Seduced). If this is occurring, I can see why people who bought it/contributed to it in the earlier stages would be upset or very critical. Consumers hate stagnation, and the bait-and-switch model which so many people have been "victims" by companies may be "triggering/anchoring" people.

I'm trying to get both parties to act on their desires, because right now, guys are not usually using the program in situations where sex is reasonable to expect in a response. [Sexually graphic comment - unsuitable language. Moderators take note.] in public anyone? Bend her over the bar? Not likely, no matter what the circumstances are. How many guys are using it on a date, or while they are alone with a woman? And how many of them are getting results? But in both directions, we have the social inhibitions and fears to deal with while there is not enough privacy. So we need to get both parties working toward the same goal.

[/b]Again, the goal initially of the program was to flip the tables. No guy on here is expecting blatant bending over the bar sex in public as you stated above. You are exaggerating A LOT because I specifically stated that's not the case in my deleted "sexually graphic comment". It seems that you're only motivation is pushing an agenda and condescending people when this post was to inform people but you took it as a personal attack. I was right in my assessment before I made this post that I should just not contribute to the forum anymore[b]

I would say a lot of guys here expect that sort of thing. They are expecting to achieve blatant sex with the woman initiating. But I am saying, no matter what, in-public, you aren't likely to have sex. One of the key factors for a woman to express her sexuality is privacy. No matter what you do, no matter how hot and bothered she is, a woman is virtually never going to initiate and have sex in public. I am saying, not many guys are taking that into account and trying to go find privacy in which she can express her desires.

The sexually graphic comment, wasn't that from my post? And that's an automated post adjustment. It's nothing personal.

I think you need to take some time off and chill. Stop assuming everything is a personal attack. I don't know you well enough to have any sort of motivation to personally attack you, and you are far from pissing me off enough to do something like that.

[Shannon]

The gender specification in AM, etc. is there to prevent it from adversely affecting people who are not of the appropriate sexual identity for what it is telling you to do. In other words, I'm trying to respect that not every man who is exposed may want to be exposed, or may want to have the SM lead in, etc.

But that's what I don't get, is the program telling you to become "straight" or an alpha male? Because one doesn't have to be straight to be an alpha male.

It's not telling you to become straight. It's telling you to ignore the instructions if you're not straight, because they might conflict with not being straight.

Yes but why would they conflict with not being straight? Isn't AM just about having self-validation, OGSF, and stuff like that?

AM uses the sex magnet lead in. It's directly aimed at hetero men. some of the phrasing in AM body referring to women is also directly presuming heterosexual users.

[Aventus45]

Did the models indicate how many loops is optimal?

[sawell54]

Unfortunate what's happening between RT and Chaos. I hope you guys work out your differences eventually because while I love seeing trolls get trounced and shunned (as they should) it saddens me to see things like this play out among active members although I do accept that it's almost an inevitability of an open forum.

BEGIN PHILOSOPHICAL RANT. Skip down to see the CRAZY v1 aura hit!!!

I appreciate the sentiment, but I'm good man -- there's no need whatsoever to be sad. On the path to six, seven, eight figures and freedom from the system, you're always going to encounter those people that'll try to destroy your voice and push you back in line. The biggest challenge is learning to release the desire for "harmony."

I know that sounds bad, but sometimes, trying to reach a state of faux-harmony means sacrificing your principles and living an inauthentic life. Allowing people to repeatedly violate everything you are so that you can pretend to be peaceful. But, behind that peace is a deep-seated RAAAAAAGE ™ because you know you aren't demanding more from yourself, from the people around you -- from society. To me, harmony, zen -- whatever you wanna call it -- comes from the realization that you can't directly control outcomes. You guide yourself through life and direct what you can.

I cannot control others -- only myself and my reaction. And in a situation where someone tries to diminish the very essence of who you are (your experiences) I'll stand up, push back and detach myself from the fear of what might happen. Only way to live authentically.

This individual has expressed that he's not interested in anything I have to say. I'll respect that. That's his right. I won't respond to any of his posts or make reference to him ever again after this post. I'm going to direct energy at why I even started talking to him yesterday in the first place.... that DMSI HYPE!!!!

END PHILOSOPHICAL RANT. Enter CRAZY v1 aura hit!!!

Gonna be hard to put this into words, it's kinda one of those, "you had to be there" things.

I've said many times that I believe many of the men here would get better success if they pursued women -- and yes, I realize that the target goal is to turn women into the seducers. Well, today... I ate my words. I had a hit so blatant and so inappropriate that I literally froze and just stared at her for a good 15 seconds.

Had to get the oil changed in my car. The place I usually take it is about 5 minutes from my friend's house (M's boyfriend -- I know, I'm terrible). I hit 'em up, asked if he wanted to get breakfast at the McDonald's up the road.

Anyway, I ordered one of those "big breakfast" meals for me and my kid. The clerk was this really beautiful, really cute blonde named Hailey. She takes my order, I notice that she's staring, but that's a normal thing for me after running AM6 twice. I split the big breakfast with my kid. Realize we only had one set of silverware. I was being lazy, decided to just eat the pancakes with the one fork we had. That is, until my three-year-old started sticking it up her nose and shit.

So, I run back up to the cashier's area to get another set. I realize my friend followed me. I was a bit ticked off that he left my kid there alone, so I was in a rush.

I ask Hailey for another set of silverware. She turns bright red, starts stumbling over her words. "You want a fork... knife.. and I mean, spoon... for... knife?" I looked at her kinda silly. She bursts into laughter, places her hand over her chest and starts apologizing, saying she doesn't know what's wrong with her. I smile, tell her it's okay. I'm just like: "Fork. And spoon. No knife." Kinda in a hurry because I'm trying to get back to my kid.

She literally starts stumbling around. Finds the spoon. Can't find the forks. And she's tripping on things, tearing through boxes and stuff. Then she comes back, and in this really sexy, submissive voice says, "I can't find the forks. I'm sorry."

In my head, I'm thinking htf am I gonna eat pancakes with a spoon and I wanted to bop her with it, but I ended up playing it cool, telling her that's it's okay. Needed to get back to my kid. When she hands me the spoon, she places it in my hand, grabs my hand and goes: "Are you sure?" I'm like, "yeah, it's all good." And then she looks me dead in the eyes and says:

"... because I'll get you anything you want."

I totally froze. I didn't know what to do. My mind went completely blank. I just stared at her for a good 15 seconds. I'm wearing athletic pants, so you can clearly see the d*ck helmet bulging out. My friend was looking at this interaction like, "yo wtf is this sh*t." I ended up just taking the spoon and walking away, rushed back to my kid. She kept finding reasons to walk out to where we were sitting. She had her hair up in a pony tail, and she let it down. Kept stroking it and smiling. About 15 minutes later, she brings me a fork...

... after I had finished the pancakes. My friend is cracking up, saying that he doesn't remember girls being so flirty when we were that age. And my mind's trying to trick me into doing something I shouldn't. That little voice in the back of my head talking about, "Don't be a misogynist, chaos. Who are you to tell her she ain't old enough to get f*cked? If she 16, it IS legal. And she IS smart enough to make her own decisions."

I was like, nah brain and rolled up out of there before my primal brain got the best of me. v2.3 is going to be CRAZZZZZZY!!! Get hyped, ya'll! When you run DMSI and go out, just loop this song in your head over and over: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMUDVMiITOU

Umm if 2.3 dont produce the results we all want I think we should go back to v1 original goal phrasing for the aura generation.

Just stack up on snacks and Gatorade lol . The hunger is worth it, everything comes at a price and I am willing to pay it for results like this. I still think the addition of the body language, flirting, pheromone nsfm would help inexperienced users with freezing up.

Most guys would freeze up when a girl goes out of her way to throw herself blatantly at you like that especially when you are not in hunter mode and chaos you look more like you were in dad mode from what you was describing, I would have choked worst lol.

[SargeMaximus]

AM uses the sex magnet lead in. It's directly aimed at hetero men. some of the phrasing in AM body referring to women is also directly presuming heterosexual users.

Hmm I see.

Does it have to be tho? I mean, even gay men are attractive to women.

[Shannon]

Did the models indicate how many loops is optimal?

Haven't had a chance to run that yet.

[Shannon]

Unfortunate what's happening between RT and Chaos. I hope you guys work out your differences eventually because while I love seeing trolls get trounced and shunned (as they should) it saddens me to see things like this play out among active members although I do accept that it's almost an inevitability of an open forum.

BEGIN PHILOSOPHICAL RANT. Skip down to see the CRAZY v1 aura hit!!!

I appreciate the sentiment, but I'm good man -- there's no need whatsoever to be sad. On the path to six, seven, eight figures and freedom from the system, you're always going to encounter those people that'll try to destroy your voice and push you back in line. The biggest challenge is learning to release the desire for "harmony."

I know that sounds bad, but sometimes, trying to reach a state of faux-harmony means sacrificing your principles and living an inauthentic life. Allowing people to repeatedly violate everything you are so that you can pretend to be peaceful. But, behind that peace is a deep-seated RAAAAAAGE ™ because you know you aren't demanding more from yourself, from the people around you -- from society. To me, harmony, zen -- whatever you wanna call it -- comes from the realization that you can't directly control outcomes. You guide yourself through life and direct what you can.

I cannot control others -- only myself and my reaction. And in a situation where someone tries to diminish the very essence of who you are (your experiences) I'll stand up, push back and detach myself from the fear of what might happen. Only way to live authentically.

This individual has expressed that he's not interested in anything I have to say. I'll respect that. That's his right. I won't respond to any of his posts or make reference to him ever again after this post. I'm going to direct energy at why I even started talking to him yesterday in the first place.... that DMSI HYPE!!!!

END PHILOSOPHICAL RANT. Enter CRAZY v1 aura hit!!!

Gonna be hard to put this into words, it's kinda one of those, "you had to be there" things.

I've said many times that I believe many of the men here would get better success if they pursued women -- and yes, I realize that the target goal is to turn women into the seducers. Well, today... I ate my words. I had a hit so blatant and so inappropriate that I literally froze and just stared at her for a good 15 seconds.

Had to get the oil changed in my car. The place I usually take it is about 5 minutes from my friend's house (M's boyfriend -- I know, I'm terrible). I hit 'em up, asked if he wanted to get breakfast at the McDonald's up the road.

Anyway, I ordered one of those "big breakfast" meals for me and my kid. The clerk was this really beautiful, really cute blonde named Hailey. She takes my order, I notice that she's staring, but that's a normal thing for me after running AM6 twice. I split the big breakfast with my kid. Realize we only had one set of silverware. I was being lazy, decided to just eat the pancakes with the one fork we had. That is, until my three-year-old started sticking it up her nose and shit.

So, I run back up to the cashier's area to get another set. I realize my friend followed me. I was a bit ticked off that he left my kid there alone, so I was in a rush.

I ask Hailey for another set of silverware. She turns bright red, starts stumbling over her words. "You want a fork... knife.. and I mean, spoon... for... knife?" I looked at her kinda silly. She bursts into laughter, places her hand over her chest and starts apologizing, saying she doesn't know what's wrong with her. I smile, tell her it's okay. I'm just like: "Fork. And spoon. No knife." Kinda in a hurry because I'm trying to get back to my kid.

She literally starts stumbling around. Finds the spoon. Can't find the forks. And she's tripping on things, tearing through boxes and stuff. Then she comes back, and in this really sexy, submissive voice says, "I can't find the forks. I'm sorry."

In my head, I'm thinking htf am I gonna eat pancakes with a spoon and I wanted to bop her with it, but I ended up playing it cool, telling her that's it's okay. Needed to get back to my kid. When she hands me the spoon, she places it in my hand, grabs my hand and goes: "Are you sure?" I'm like, "yeah, it's all good." And then she looks me dead in the eyes and says:

"... because I'll get you anything you want."

I totally froze. I didn't know what to do. My mind went completely blank. I just stared at her for a good 15 seconds. I'm wearing athletic pants, so you can clearly see the d*ck helmet bulging out. My friend was looking at this interaction like, "yo wtf is this sh*t." I ended up just taking the spoon and walking away, rushed back to my kid. She kept finding reasons to walk out to where we were sitting. She had her hair up in a pony tail, and she let it down. Kept stroking it and smiling. About 15 minutes later, she brings me a fork...

... after I had finished the pancakes. My friend is cracking up, saying that he doesn't remember girls being so flirty when we were that age. And my mind's trying to trick me into doing something I shouldn't. That little voice in the back of my head talking about, "Don't be a misogynist, chaos. Who are you to tell her she ain't old enough to get f*cked? If she 16, it IS legal. And she IS smart enough to make her own decisions."

I was like, nah brain and rolled up out of there before my primal brain got the best of me. v2.3 is going to be CRAZZZZZZY!!! Get hyped, ya'll! When you run DMSI and go out, just loop this song in your head over and over: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMUDVMiITOU

Umm if 2.3 dont produce the results we all want I think we should go back to v1 original goal phrasing for the aura generation.

Just stack up on snacks and Gatorade lol . The hunger is worth it, everything comes at a price and I am willing to pay it for results like this. I still think the addition of the body language, flirting, pheromone nsfm would help inexperienced users with freezing up.

Most guys would freeze up when a girl goes out of her way to throw herself blatantly at you like that especially when you are not in hunter mode and chaos you look more like you were in dad mode from what you was describing, I would have choked worst lol.

If 2.3 "don't produce the results", the goal phrasing is unlikely to be the reason. It is also not responsible for aura generation.

But regardless of what 2.3 does or does not do, it will point me in the direction I need to go, and at this point, that's all I'm asking of it. The rest of the additions will have to wait for V3.

[Shannon]

AM uses the sex magnet lead in. It's directly aimed at hetero men. some of the phrasing in AM body referring to women is also directly presuming heterosexual users.

Hmm I see.

Does it have to be tho? I mean, even gay men are attractive to women.

If we remove the SM lead in, it is going to be a lot easier to make universal for all men to use, whether they are gay, straight or bi. That's a big part of why I'm planning to remove it. That and because SM != AM.