Shannon's Journal Discussion

[K-Train]

Did Ricardo get banned or sidelined or something?

Nah, he's still around but him and Shannon don't exactly see eye to eye.
Here's what kind of kicked off their...disagreement.

I don't feel the aura at all anymore. Ever. But I sure as hell am getting the results! This leads me to believe that the aura is being projected on one or more "frequency bands" that are difficult to consciously sense, and/or that it can be gotten used to.

Shannon, what results are you getting exactly? You DMSI journal is showing the same misinterpreted behaviours, placebo and other BS as other journals here. The goal of the sub is "This program’s design goal is specifically to cause people who are of the gender you find sexually attractive to be irresistibly attracted to you and aroused by you sexually to the degree that they actually and repeatedly try to initiate and have as much physical sex with you as you allow them to"
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but have you and your friend had this yet? Even with your DGAF personas?

Here's Shannon's response --> http://subliminal-talk.com/thread-7535-p...#pid125863
Ricardo's response to that post --> http://subliminal-talk.com/thread-7535-p...#pid125969

I'll sum it up like this in the most objective way I can...for Ricardo (and he can correct me if I'm wrong) DMSI will only truly be a "success" when it can accomplish (one of) its main design goals which is creating an aura of sexiness so strong that attractive women (or technically attractive people of the gender you're attracted to) approach the user on a regular basis. Or at minimum, come damn near close to it.

[maxx55]

I thought the issue was that Ricardo was discrediting Shannon's experience in reading body language and understanding women and what their iois mean. Plus that he was judging DMSI as if it was already the final retail ready product instead of a work in progress.

[chaosvrgn]

Ricardo's making the same mistake as a lot of other people -- they want the woman to initiate sex the way a man would. Overtly and aggressively. Women aren't going to initiate sex in the middle of the food court at the mall.

They keep referring to DMSI as an "IOI generator," not realizing that when a woman's giving IOI's, especially to the level that DMSI provokes, they're already soaking wet and they're just waiting for you to make a move. This isn't theory or speculation -- I've personally seen it play out like that while running my DMSI tests.

EDIT: Sorry if this is TMI, but TWICE while running DMSI and it led to the "target goal," I remember being absolutely shocked at how wet the woman was. The first time, with "M," it was absolutely absurd. Never had that experience before.

EDIT EDIT: I guess for me, I never really expected DMSI turn men into the selectors and women into the chasers, so when I used it and got my version of good results (making the escalation process from chatting to sex SUPER EASY), I was ecstatic.

[K-Train]

Yeah Maxx55 you're right and the particular post you're referring to is also included in one of the links I posted. Again, I don't agree with how he stated his initial question but I can understand where both Ricardo and Shannon are coming from. To some extent, Ricardo may be right in that DMSI might not become as powerful as it COULD become however Shannon's already explained why certain things that could improve DMSI's effects can't be included due to Shannon's own principles.

[K-Train]

Ricardo's making the same mistake as a lot of other people -- they want the woman to initiate sex the way a man would. Overtly and aggressively. Women aren't going to initiate sex in the middle of the food court at the mall.

They keep referring to DMSI as an "IOI generator," not realizing that when a woman's giving IOI's, especially to the level that DMSI provokes, they're already soaking wet and they're just waiting for you to make a move. This isn't theory or speculation -- I've personally seen it play out like that while running my DMSI tests.

Yeah I agree man. Although we have to acknowledge though Chaos that because Shannon made the design goal what it is (cause attractive people to initiate physical sex) people are going to keep focusing on that and using it to judge the overall program despite all the other things the program is doing right.

However, here's the kicker though Chaosvrgn and you just mentioned it...the women who are affected who give these IOI's might believe that they ARE initiating sex. I've seen it before where a woman shoots a guy a barrel full of IOI's, the guy doesn't recognize it, and she gets frustrated because in her mind she's like "well damn, I made it OBVIOUS I want you to f*ck me, what gives?"

EDIT: Hey Chaos, I asked in a previous thread, but you probably didn't this question: how has life been since the thing with M? She hasn't tried any funny shit has she?

[chaosvrgn]

Ricardo's making the same mistake as a lot of other people -- they want the woman to initiate sex the way a man would. Overtly and aggressively. Women aren't going to initiate sex in the middle of the food court at the mall.

They keep referring to DMSI as an "IOI generator," not realizing that when a woman's giving IOI's, especially to the level that DMSI provokes, they're already soaking wet and they're just waiting for you to make a move. This isn't theory or speculation -- I've personally seen it play out like that while running my DMSI tests.

Yeah I agree man. Although we have to acknowledge though Chaos that because Shannon made the design goal what it is (cause attractive people to initiate physical sex) people are going to keep focusing on that and using it to judge the overall program despite all the other things the program is doing right.

However, here's the kicker though Chaosvrgn and you just mentioned it...the women who are affected who give these IOI's might believe that they ARE initiating sex. I've seen it before where a woman shoots a guy a barrel full of IOI's, the guy doesn't recognize it, and she gets frustrated because in her mind she's like "well damn, I made it OBVIOUS I want you to f*ck me, what gives?"

EDIT: Hey Chaos, I asked in a previous thread, but you probably didn't this question: how has life been since the thing with M? She hasn't tried any funny shit has she?

Yea, Shannon is definitely an expert hype man. However, I refuse to believe that he's actively trying to mislead his customer base to generate profits. My personal theory is: he's a little disconnected from the modern man and miscalculated just how much society f*cked up male masculinity and assumed that DMSI would work as well for us as it does for him. For example: I've resisted a lot of societal conditioning AND I've been running AM6 for a year. In my head, when I saw "M" giving me crotch shots, I took immediate action and just jumped on it. That's because my psyche's been purged of a lot of gunk and I recognized that IOI for what it was -- "please, please, don't say anything, just take me now."

Also, being an entrepreneur has the effect of disconnecting you. I've been one for a little under a year and it's completely changed the way I approach the world. For one thing, without fear of losing my job or livelihood for not being PC, I say and do whatever the hell I please and laugh at those who get angry -- they have NO recourse because my business isn't attached to my name AT ALL.

When you've been one for ten years and you're off on your own, you tend to lose touch with the common person. For example (and no offense, Shannon): The idea of taking all things related to women out of AM7 sounds crazy to me. The sexual drive for women is primal, and we have the elites hijacking that drive for their own personal gain. It stands to reason that being an alpha male involves fighting off the mental and intellectual chains they use to bind us. But anyway...

About M. I've been actively avoiding her because I'm starting to feel a lil guilty about what happened. I finally hung out with them this past weekend. Nothing happened. There were a few "naughty" moments when someone would make a joke about cheating, or something would happen on the television and we'd glance at each other with a "knowing" smirk. She also kept finding reasons to rub my shoulder. There's attraction still there, but nothing overt. We'll see what happens with v2.3...

[K-Train]

Yea, Shannon is definitely an expert hype man. However, I refuse to believe that he's actively trying to mislead his customer base to generate profits. My personal theory is: he's a little disconnected from the modern man and miscalculated just how much society f*cked up male masculinity and assumed that DMSI would work as well for us as it does for him. For example: I've resisted a lot of societal conditioning AND I've been running AM6 for a year. In my head, when I saw "M" giving me crotch shots, I took immediate action and just jumped on it. That's because my psyche's been purged of a lot of gunk and I recognized that IOI for what it was -- "please, please, don't say anything, just take me now."

I agree with most of this. I definitely don't think Shannon intentionally wanted to mislead anyone and that the purpose of DMSI's design goal was to aim for the stars and see how close he could get which lines up with who he is as a person. And he's getting close. Very close imo. I can see what you're saying on the detachment thing but I think this is negated a bit by the fact that Shannon really does listen to his customers and tries to appease them as much as he can which is sometimes to his detriment.

The societal conditioning definitely is a factor as well and contributes to a lot of the fear, guilt, and shame that other guys as well as myself have experienced that is no doubting affecting results. I feel that minus the goal phrasing mistake mentioned, DMSI V2.2 would have been the ideal choice for those who want long term success due to its healing modules. When V2.3 is released I'm curious to see if one (or all) of these three things happens:

1.) Most of the guys get great results which includes women showing blatant attraction and initiating sex

2.) If the guys who do get results sabotage themselves repeatedly (which may indicate some guilt, shame and fear needing to be eradicated)

3.) Nobody gets results.

I doubt #3 will happen but #1 and #2 I'm most curious about since there's no more healing modules. I think it does stand to reason though based off a post I read by forum member bits a couple days ago that even guys who struggle with women could improve themselves so long as DMSI works to continually give them enough opportunities.

EDIT: Thanks for the quick answer CV.

[rayrocanaldo]

I think adding eye contact, flirtation, body language into aura of sexiness V3 is not going to be useful. The program should be about developing an aura of sexiness, so powerful & strong it magnetically attracts women to you. I highly doubt adding flirtation, body language into it will make it better. We should focus on how can we make the aura/vibe/energy stronger & better. Let's focus on what we cannot see ( the aura ) vs what we can see ( body language, eye contact, flirtation, etc...)

[4Kingdoms]

I think adding eye contact, flirtation, body language into aura of sexiness V3 is not going to be useful. The program should be about developing an aura of sexiness, so powerful & strong it magnetically attracts women to you. I highly doubt adding flirtation, body language into it will make it better. We should focus on how can we make the aura/vibe/energy stronger & better. Let's focus on what we cannot see ( the aura ) vs what we can see ( body language, eye contact, flirtation, etc...)

LOL, Ray... let's see what v2.3 can do first!!

[Illumi]

When i first used ASC before AM i was getting insane situational confidence, i was in my best state in my life just talking to people at school and just them talking back to me i was so happy my state was insane. Yet i was still beta inside. I tried some stuff i saw on youtube on the hottest girl i've personally ever seen, then she got so crazy about me she was almost asking me to put it in but because i was beta inside i blew my chance.

So the point im getting at is when a girl truley likes you you'd get way more than simple ioi's and i tell you this girl was the most uptight person i've ever seen but because i was in my best state she was into me like crazy. Now i think about it i have probably used up a lifetime of luck to get a girl like her to like a the beta i was. It wasnt even me its like i won 3 lotteries in a row.

So how far a girl would go for you should be even more if you were sexually irresistable and not just get some iois.

[Ricardo]

Chaosvrgn "Ricardo's making the same mistake as a lot of other people -- they want the woman to initiate sex the way a man would. Overtly and aggressively. Women aren't going to initiate sex in the middle of the food court at the mall. "

No I understand that but women are tenacious and can be aggressive pursuers if they want the bloke enough. Believe me they will find ways of getting their man and will only fail if the man isn't interested at all. But they have to be THAT INTERESTED to begin with. They may smile or stare at you but they will
follow it up if it doesn't get results..bumping into you or something else to get your attention, even if it's days later. When you are in the line of fire you can't do anything wrong

K-Train " To some extent, Ricardo may be right in that DMSI might not become as powerful as it COULD become however Shannon's already explained why certain things that could improve DMSI's effects can't be included due to Shannon's own principles."

Yes, after Shannon stated the limitations it went from being a sub that will make you irresistible, aggressively pursued and laid by hot women who you wouldn't normally get the chance to have...to a sub that is actually just going to put you in the best possible light, but don't expect to score with women who
previously didn't find you desirable.

K-train "Shannon made the design goal what it is (cause attractive people to initiate physical sex) people are going to keep focusing on that and using it to judge the overall program despite all the other things the program is doing right.

Strange isn't it! You might be happy to go into a grocers for cabbages and
come out with carrots but I'm not. I just don't want to see guys here promised a hurricane of lust filled craziness only to end up with a wet fart.
While Shannon may have a shed load of acronyms when he talks about his work, it doesn't mean anything until they produce the results he's saying.
Ultimately he will be judged on his products, not his claptrap.

[4Kingdoms]

Yea, Shannon is definitely an expert hype man. However, I refuse to believe that he's actively trying to mislead his customer base to generate profits. My personal theory is: he's a little disconnected from the modern man and miscalculated just how much society f*cked up male masculinity and assumed that DMSI would work as well for us as it does for him. For example: I've resisted a lot of societal conditioning AND I've been running AM6 for a year. In my head, when I saw "M" giving me crotch shots, I took immediate action and just jumped on it. That's because my psyche's been purged of a lot of gunk and I recognized that IOI for what it was -- "please, please, don't say anything, just take me now."

I agree with most of this. I definitely don't think Shannon intentionally wanted to mislead anyone and that the purpose of DMSI's design goal was to aim for the stars and see how close he could get which lines up with who he is as a person. And he's getting close. Very close imo. I can see what you're saying on the detachment thing but I think this is negated a bit by the fact that Shannon really does listen to his customers and tries to appease them as much as he can which is sometimes to his detriment.

The societal conditioning definitely is a factor as well and contributes to a lot of the fear, guilt, and shame that other guys as well as myself have experienced that is no doubting affecting results. I feel that minus the goal phrasing mistake mentioned, DMSI V2.2 would have been the ideal choice for those who want long term success due to its healing modules. When V2.3 is released I'm curious to see if one (or all) of these three things happens:

1.) Most of the guys get great results which includes women showing blatant attraction and initiating sex

2.) If the guys who do get results sabotage themselves repeatedly (which may indicate some guilt, shame and fear needing to be eradicated)

3.) Nobody gets results.

I doubt #3 will happen but #1 and #2 I'm most curious about since there's no more healing modules. I think it does stand to reason though based off a post I read by forum member bits a couple days ago that even guys who struggle with women could improve themselves so long as DMSI works to continually give them enough opportunities.

You will get reports of no results because most guys, myself included, just don't see the blatant iois they are getting. http://subliminal-talk.com/thread-7716-p...#pid123589 This photo taken by RTBoss is a great example. He saw something that I did not!!

I currently have two women coworkers that aren't my type actively pursuing me. While I agree it is great for social proof, I prefer to get iois from the type I am attracted to.

I know these two female coworkers are DTF. Some would say I didn't get results because I didn't get laid. Does it mean I'm experiencing GSF?? Is this about getting another notch in your belt or saying no until "your type" is attracted to you??

When a beautiful (attractive) woman says no to all the men that are trying to seduce her. Is she being choosy or is it GSF?? I think most would agree she is being choosy.

[K-Train]

No I understand that but women are tenacious and can be aggressive pursuers if they want the bloke enough. Believe me they will find ways of getting their man and will only fail if the man isn't interested at all. But they have to be THAT INTERESTED to begin with. They may smile or stare at you but they will
follow it up if it doesn't get results..bumping into you or something else to get your attention, even if it's days later. When you are in the line of fire you can't do anything wrong

Agreed.

Yes, after Shannon stated the limitations it went from being a sub that will make you irresistible, aggressively pursued and laid by hot women who you wouldn't normally get the chance to have...to a sub that is actually just going to put you in the best possible light, but don't expect to score with women who
previously didn't find you desirable.

This is actually false. Chaosvrgn is living proof that a woman who had no interest in you can be influenced to want to f*ck you. Other guys (Minititan and Kenpachi I believe) also had women (who were relatively attractive from my understanding) pretty much mount them. So the sub CAN work. The rest of this post will be addressed towards the end.

Strange isn't it! You might be happy to go into a grocers for cabbages and
come out with carrots but I'm not. I just don't want to see guys here promised a hurricane of lust filled craziness only to end up with a wet fart.
While Shannon may have a shed load of acronyms when he talks about his work, it doesn't mean anything until they produce the results he's saying.
Ultimately he will be judged on his products, not his claptrap.

Now based off this I will assume that you are talking specifically about the program achieving the design goal of getting attractive individuals (in our case attractive women) approaching you and initiating sex correct? Now, bear in mind what we are conducting here are TESTS. All these programs from the V1-V2 series of DMSI/AOSI are all TEST programs.

So, you are correct in that none of them have been able to consistently achieve the main design goal. My question to you is this. Does it mean absolutely nothing if Shannon gets this program to a point to where it a) allows the self-effects (which may or may not be meaningless to you) working for most individuals and b) is able to make it so that women show blatant signs of attraction (whatever your definition of blatant is) consistently shy of outright telling you "I want you to f*ck me" (at least without you opening your mouth and speaking to her and asking yourself )

Now, here's where you and I are in agreement Ricardo. I follow your grocery store analogy and I believe that if Shannon is NOT able to make the program achieve its specific design goal as it is now then I agree that he SHOULD change the goal of this program (in V3) to reflect the current capabilities of DMSI that way he doesn't have to worry about individuals like yourself complaining about the program not working even if it does everything else. And for the record, those people would NOT be in the wrong.[/quote]

As of now, I do not believe Shannon should change the design goal since the purpose of these tests is to see IF the design goal can be accomplished with current technology.

[chaosvrgn]

Chaosvrgn "Ricardo's making the same mistake as a lot of other people -- they want the woman to initiate sex the way a man would. Overtly and aggressively. Women aren't going to initiate sex in the middle of the food court at the mall. "

No I understand that but women are tenacious and can be aggressive pursuers if they want the bloke enough. Believe me they will find ways of getting their man and will only fail if the man isn't interested at all. But they have to be THAT INTERESTED to begin with. They may smile or stare at you but they will
follow it up if it doesn't get results..bumping into you or something else to get your attention, even if it's days later. When you are in the line of fire you can't do anything wrong

K-Train " To some extent, Ricardo may be right in that DMSI might not become as powerful as it COULD become however Shannon's already explained why certain things that could improve DMSI's effects can't be included due to Shannon's own principles."

Yes, after Shannon stated the limitations it went from being a sub that will make you irresistible, aggressively pursued and laid by hot women who you wouldn't normally get the chance to have...to a sub that is actually just going to put you in the best possible light, but don't expect to score with women who
previously didn't find you desirable.

K-train "Shannon made the design goal what it is (cause attractive people to initiate physical sex) people are going to keep focusing on that and using it to judge the overall program despite all the other things the program is doing right.

Strange isn't it! You might be happy to go into a grocers for cabbages and
come out with carrots but I'm not. I just don't want to see guys here promised a hurricane of lust filled craziness only to end up with a wet fart.
While Shannon may have a shed load of acronyms when he talks about his work, it doesn't mean anything until they produce the results he's saying.
Ultimately he will be judged on his products, not his claptrap.

I actually... don't really disagree with what you said here. In your earlier posts, it seemed like you were suggesting that DMSI didn't work at all -- and that's untrue. It works. Very well. Like I said, in my early tests, I saw an attached woman that I've known for years, who NEVER showed any interest in me sexually, go from completely cold to "hey, it's a good idea to cheat on my long-term boyfriend with you." Of course, we were alone and knew we wouldn't be caught, so she was able to act on her urges. That's... the very definition of DMSI working.

So, the question is: Why is it working well for me (and others, see RTBoss, Freud and Rayhon) but not others?

Is it because I'm good with women? No. I don't think I'm "good" with women. I can't maintain a healthy, intimate relationship with a woman AT ALL. I have a lot of resentment for them and they get on my damn nerves.

You know what I am good at, tho? Being crazy in the moment, being dominant, reading body language and using that to relentlessly escalate toward sex. And that was a skill acquired through years of studying and getting rejected -- my [rule 4!], the rejections. I've experienced some of the worst blowouts ever! That makes my use of DMSI much easier, because I'm not afraid of rejection and I honestly don't care what women think of me. For most women, it's a bad idea to be obnoxious toward me -- I'll put you in your place in a heartbeat. Let you know that I really give no sh*ts about how your vagina responds to me. You don't get to place a value on me as a human. Don't do it. Not worth the mental violence I'll inflict after that. But...

Took a long amount of time to become bold enough (whether you agree with that approach or not) to do that. Most men just sulk away and diddle themselves that night in a fit of impotent rage. So, Shannon recognizes this, adds the healing modules and STILL gets yelled at.

I haven't forgotten Shannon's promises about the sub -- however, we're dealing with new science. A whole new frontier. It could be a YEAR (maybe more) before the target goal is reached. If you bought the sub early on, you were investing in the science, the chance to be an early adopter and directly influence DMSI's development and that's exactly what's happening. Yelling about how it doesn't meet your expectations NOW does nothing for its long-term development. And when the final version comes out, if it doesn't meet my expectations, I promise you: I WILL voice those concerns.

But right now, if you want to invest in the success of DMSI, either buy a copy and become a "beta tester / influencer" and submit detailed reports. OR, if you're like, f*ck that jive cuz I ain't spending my cash, contribute to the many "idea threads" we have here to spark creativity and growth.

EDIT: In b4 OMG U BROWNOSINZ