SargeMaximus: Time to Heal (DMSI 3.2A)

[Shannon]

Lol, Shannon.

The proof is in the pudding.

It's certainly not a "magic bullet". You can't tell me that quitting porn will magically make me attract a ton of women, because we both know that's not true.

I knew I would regret reading your thread. Have fun masturbating, Sarge.

[Shawn]

Lol, Shannon.

The proof is in the pudding.

It's certainly not a "magic bullet". You can't tell me that quitting porn will magically make me attract a ton of women, because we both know that's not true.

Exactly. I mean here are people who masturbate before the date and still get laid and there are a lot of nofap people who don't get laid.

[DarkPlouf]

Lol, Shannon.

The proof is in the pudding.

It's certainly not a "magic bullet". You can't tell me that quitting porn will magically make me attract a ton of women, because we both know that's not true.

Exactly. I mean here are people who masturbate before the date and still get laid and there are a lot of nofap people who don't get laid.

What about momentum? Of course someone which has already planned a date while get laid as per usual for him, regardless of if he fapped or not. The ball was already sent down the hill.

The body works in a cyclical manner. It's only after the next tick that you know how disastrous or advantageous retaining or spilling the semen is. You may fap every day for a week right now, and have a great time many weeks after that. Because you already had a momentum and jerking off didn't stop it. But eventually down the road you will reap the consequences.
As I have said and found out, these sort of stuff take effects as they build up. Both beneficial and unwanted effects.
The last time I jerked off I still kept a high mental clarify for days. I was actually tempted to think that releasing DID make things better. Until I went with 2-3 weeks of very poor mental power many, many days after. Even though I was still retaining during those times!!

I am not saying "no porn/fap = getting pussy", as Sarge said it's not a magic bullet, there's no such thing in this world. However I just wanted to react on what I highlighted in bold. It seems real changes don't happen with magic bullets but through a row of small steps. Avoiding porn may be one of those steps.
However, I am curious to know what's Shannon basis for being so much against porn/masturbation. There may be something we are unaware of.

[Shannon]

I'm not against porn and masturbation. I am very much against intentionally using them to derail DMSI as an escape route, consciously or subconsciously. Which is why we have them targeted in The Wall. There is a huge difference between "some guys get laid while masturbating to porn" and "some guys use porn and masturbation to avoid getting to the goals of DMSI". Sadly, the logic of that is not readily apparent to everyone.

If you want to achieve the goals of DMSI, you don't fight for your right to masturbate to porn. You use that energy to motivate achieving the goals of DMSI instead. Just sayin.

[SargeMaximus]

I'm not against porn and masturbation. I am very much against intentionally using them to derail DMSI as an escape route, consciously or subconsciously. Which is why we have them targeted in The Wall. There is a huge difference between "some guys get laid while masturbating to porn" and "some guys use porn and masturbation to avoid getting to the goals of DMSI". Sadly, the logic of that is not readily apparent to everyone.

If you want to achieve the goals of DMSI, you don't fight for your right to masturbate to porn. You use that energy to motivate achieving the goals of DMSI instead. Just sayin.

I see what you're saying Shannon. Honestly, I have nothing against NOT using porn. I've done so recently for quite a while and have in the past for months on end.

My concern is that, I, personally, use porn for entertainment. It's one of the few things that satisfies a lot of things for me, so it's the perfect tool.

It also seems to help me stay out of my head unlike anything else which helps me in sales and in general.

My concern is, that by blocking this, I'll end up in my head too much and suffer in sales which is exactly what's been happening to me.

Now you may say "correlation does not equal causation" which is all fine and good, but eventually I have to trust myself, my instincts, and follow the success. I speak of success in sales, not with women. Honestly, sales is more important. If I can't make a living, forget about getting laid with any quality woman.

[Shawn]

I'm not against porn and masturbation. I am very much against intentionally using them to derail DMSI as an escape route, consciously or subconsciously. Which is why we have them targeted in The Wall. There is a huge difference between "some guys get laid while masturbating to porn" and "some guys use porn and masturbation to avoid getting to the goals of DMSI". Sadly, the logic of that is not readily apparent to everyone.

If you want to achieve the goals of DMSI, you don't fight for your right to masturbate to porn. You use that energy to motivate achieving the goals of DMSI instead. Just sayin.

I don't necessarily see a contradiction in wanting to reach DMSI goals and still wanting to masturbate. But I think one of the reasons I am against this module is the fact that until now masturbation was the only reliable way to experience sexual satisfaction in my life (escorts are too expensive for regular use) and now you want to take even this away with the script. And there is still no guarantee (and probably will never be) that I will execute one day fully and have an abundance of women in my life and therefore don't need to masturbate anymore.

[Determined]

I'm not against porn and masturbation. I am very much against intentionally using them to derail DMSI as an escape route, consciously or subconsciously. Which is why we have them targeted in The Wall. There is a huge difference between "some guys get laid while masturbating to porn" and "some guys use porn and masturbation to avoid getting to the goals of DMSI". Sadly, the logic of that is not readily apparent to everyone.

If you want to achieve the goals of DMSI, you don't fight for your right to masturbate to porn. You use that energy to motivate achieving the goals of DMSI instead. Just sayin.

I don't necessarily see a contradiction in wanting to reach DMSI goals and still wanting to masturbate. But I think one of the reasons I am against this module is the fact that until now masturbation was the only reliable way to experience sexual satisfaction in my life (escorts are too expensive for regular use) and now you want to take even this away with the script. And there is still no guarantee (and probably will never be) that I will execute one day fully and have an abundance of women in my life and therefore don't need to masturbate anymore.

What would you do if DMSI didn't exist?

[SargeMaximus]

I'm not against porn and masturbation. I am very much against intentionally using them to derail DMSI as an escape route, consciously or subconsciously. Which is why we have them targeted in The Wall. There is a huge difference between "some guys get laid while masturbating to porn" and "some guys use porn and masturbation to avoid getting to the goals of DMSI". Sadly, the logic of that is not readily apparent to everyone.

If you want to achieve the goals of DMSI, you don't fight for your right to masturbate to porn. You use that energy to motivate achieving the goals of DMSI instead. Just sayin.

I don't necessarily see a contradiction in wanting to reach DMSI goals and still wanting to masturbate. But I think one of the reasons I am against this module is the fact that until now masturbation was the only reliable way to experience sexual satisfaction in my life (escorts are too expensive for regular use) and now you want to take even this away with the script. And there is still no guarantee (and probably will never be) that I will execute one day fully and have an abundance of women in my life and therefore don't need to masturbate anymore.

What would you do if DMSI didn't exist?

Relevant discussion only please. We're getting a bit off topic.

---

ION, have a woman interacting with me online. She's talking about sex and what she wants with me which is good. Part of me thinks it's a guy/catfish but I'm moving towards meeting in person so we'll see. Obviously, I won't be doing anything like cam shows or anything. Meet in person or I move on.

I also have another girl talking with me online who I thought went off me but she's back. All good signs.

[Shawn]

What would you do if DMSI didn't exist?

I answered it here: https://subliminal-talk.com/Thread-Men-s...#pid194796

Sorry for derailing, Sarge.

[SargeMaximus]

Thinking more about the porn issue.

Let's say someone used hygiene, perfect style, brushing their teeth, etc as a way or procrastinating and resisting DMSI. Do we build a version of DMSI that tells users not to practice good hygiene or get a good style?

It just seems to me that blocking porn is blocking a symptom not the cause.

The real question is: how can we get users to stop BSing themselves and recognize when they are resisting and "do it anyways".
When I used to go to the gym regularly, I had a trigger where, if I had any reason NOT to go to the gym, that meant I HAD to go to the gym. So there was no way to not go.

Maybe DMSI needs something like that. Any time a user has a reason NOT to talk to a girl, it triggers them to be like "ok, this means I HAVE to now"

Of course, some reasons are legit (maybe she's married and you don't want to f*ck with that or maybe talking to her would be distracting you from working etc) but you get the idea.

Anyhow, just some ideas.

[Determined]

Thinking more about the porn issue.

Let's say someone used hygiene, perfect style, brushing their teeth, etc as a way or procrastinating and resisting DMSI. Do we build a version of DMSI that tells users not to practice good hygiene or get a good style?

It just seems to me that blocking porn is blocking a symptom not the cause.

The real question is: how can we get users to stop BSing themselves and recognize when they are resisting and "do it anyways".
When I used to go to the gym regularly, I had a trigger where, if I had any reason NOT to go to the gym, that meant I HAD to go to the gym. So there was no way to not go.

Maybe DMSI needs something like that. Any time a user has a reason NOT to talk to a girl, it triggers them to be like "ok, this means I HAVE to now"

Of course, some reasons are legit (maybe she's married and you don't want to f*ck with that or maybe talking to her would be distracting you from working etc) but you get the idea.

Anyhow, just some ideas.

I think you've completely missed the point of DMSI as evident by this line

"Maybe DMSI needs something like that. Any time a user has a reason NOT to talk to a girl, it triggers them to be like "ok, this means I HAVE to now""

Shannon has spoken ad nauseum about how he's aiming to shift the mindset that "man must hunt".

I didn't point this out to you the other day re: the Kendra Lust "look alike" but you've poisoned your mind with porn. If you're in the real world equating women to pornstars you like;
1. You're preventing any real connection by projecting a fantasy onto women you meet
2. You're sabotaging yourself by fapping to her later on (as mentioned in your diary) in a "those who wait get to masturbate" type phenomenon.

It's this kind of behaviour that impedes DMSI progress.

[SargeMaximus]

I understand why you'd feel that way but tapping due to horniness later is not self sabotage. The woman who looked like her was a customer. Seducing her would most likely have cost me my job, which is prolly more self sabotaging than rubbing one out to her is.

[Determined]

Again you miss you the point and this isn't about how I feel, it's an objective truth. Going home and rubbing one out to women you meet in the world is an avenue of escape. Shannon's just being prudent in patching this hole up so guys don't have the potential to hinder themselves.

[SargeMaximus]

Again you miss you the point and this isn't about how I feel, it's an objective truth. Going home and rubbing one out to women you meet in the world is an avenue of escape. Shannon's just being prudent in patching this hole up so guys don't have the potential to hinder themselves.

Yes exactly, the whole point of the "no porn/masturbation" thing is to keep users on track with the goals of the program. Which, let's not forget, is to get women to seduce the user.

Me going about my day and meeting women is not me escaping, quite the opposite in fact.

Women who are customers who I could lose my job if I made any moves do not qualify as me "escaping" because of obvious reasons.

Plus, DMSI is supposed to get her seducing me, not the other way around.

Rubbing one out after work is not an escape if I've spent my whole day interacting with women, and if the women I didn't try to seduce were customers, and if the women I'm meeting are supposed to be seducing me regardless!

I doubt many people on this forum interact with as many women as I do daily. I believe Shannon put this in there to keep guys from staying at home, not interacting with women, and using porn instead of going out and interacting with women. I go out and interact with women everyday, even when I'm not working.