Overblown Hyperbole - DMSI V3.1-A

[ReeZoX]

If you felt something was different it probably was mate, trust your intuition
Don't overthink things

[swisston]

I think that kind of hand touching sounds pretty intimate!

[Raykon]

Why is Catman aka Car man doing 6 loops of DMSI daily? Is that a new recommendation??

[ReeZoX]

Why is Catman aka Car man doing 6 loops of DMSI daily? Is that a new recommendation??

Because it's better for his personal situation. The instruction, in general, is still 2 loops for everyone else.

[Catman]

First, since starting V3.1, I've noticed I'm getting grey hairs. I have an insecurity about age, as I like younger women, and feel that would distance me from many of them. And I never got a chance to have the whole "young girl romance" thing, which I have a very deep regret about. So I have a strong deep feeling of "missing out" on that whole thing, and long for it to be honest. If others report a similar thing about grey hairs, it could mean another avenue of resistance to keep me/us from feeling sexy and being sexy. This is similar to how an earlier version was causing hair loss with many, I don't recall which version it was.

Thanks guys. And Boss, the idea of that actually happening to me, still seems so outlandish, lol. We'll see. I sometimes have trouble taking some updates seriously, I guess because the realities are so different.

In fact, that's why I wanted to post just now.

This is something I don't understand, and haven't for a long time. I just saw a post from Shannon again, talking to a guy who already gets women, and how he's having dreams etc. and going through some kind of turmoil. So he already gets sex with women he finds attractive, but is having issues with clearing and healing still. Shannon said that is being done to process things inside his mind, so that he can fully execute. I've seen posts like this before. Now, given that, I should have MASSIVE issues with clearing and healing going on, as I'm not successful with women before DMSI, and I'm not successful with women ON DMSI. So, I obviously have way more to work on than him, but yet he is the one with the turmoil on this, and I feel nothing. I don't get it.

Running this version in particular has been so easy, effortless compared to V3.0.1 which was derailing my life due to the constant exhaustion WAY beyond any reason. This sub has been easy to run, almost like I'm running nothing at all, I very rarely get any kind of dreams I recall, and usually they don't seem to make sense or I only recall weird vague things. And girls aren't even really a focus of them, never mind sex, usually girls have NOTHING to do with the dreams, so I don't get it. So, if the sub isn't dragging me through the mud with clearing/healing as you would assume due to my situation with the sub, and if I'm getting some kind of reaction so I can't by definition be stonewalling, then I should be executing, by process of elimination. But, I'm far from that, or at least I hope I am and that this program has way more to give than I'm getting now. So I don't know why I'm not getting at least serious turmoil due to clearing and healing, and what it means that I'm not. Makes me wonder what this thing is doing. I mean even at 6 loops now, for several days, I feel perfectly fine and normal, zero issues with sleep/energy even.

Things with girls still seem miles off. I guess what I'm trying to say is, I'm not sure what this thing is doing to me. That issue of not having any issues with clearing and healing on this, getting something internally so I can't be stonewalling, but yet seeing nothing with girls, makes me wonder what is going on with this version.

That's it for now!

[JakeKennedy]

First, since starting V3.1, I've noticed I'm getting grey hairs. I have an insecurity about age, as I like younger women, and feel that would distance me from many of them. And I never got a chance to have the whole "young girl romance" thing, which I have a very deep regret about. So I have a strong deep feeling of "missing out" on that whole thing, and long for it to be honest. If others report a similar thing about grey hairs, it could mean another avenue of resistance to keep me/us from feeling sexy and being sexy. This is similar to how an earlier version was causing hair loss with many, I don't recall which version it was.

Thanks guys. And Boss, the idea of that actually happening to me, still seems so outlandish, lol. We'll see. I sometimes have trouble taking some updates seriously, I guess because the realities are so different.

In fact, that's why I wanted to post just now.

This is something I don't understand, and haven't for a long time. I just saw a post from Shannon again, talking to a guy who already gets women, and how he's having dreams etc. and going through some kind of turmoil. So he already gets sex with women he finds attractive, but is having issues with clearing and healing still. Shannon said that is being done to process things inside his mind, so that he can fully execute. I've seen posts like this before. Now, given that, I should have MASSIVE issues with clearing and healing going on, as I'm not successful with women before DMSI, and I'm not successful with women ON DMSI. So, I obviously have way more to work on than him, but yet he is the one with the turmoil on this, and I feel nothing. I don't get it.

Running this version in particular has been so easy, effortless compared to V3.0.1 which was derailing my life due to the constant exhaustion WAY beyond any reason. This sub has been easy to run, almost like I'm running nothing at all, I very rarely get any kind of dreams I recall, and usually they don't seem to make sense or I only recall weird vague things. And girls aren't even really a focus of them, never mind sex, usually girls have NOTHING to do with the dreams, so I don't get it. So, if the sub isn't dragging me through the mud with clearing/healing as you would assume due to my situation with the sub, and if I'm getting some kind of reaction so I can't by definition be stonewalling, then I should be executing, by process of elimination. But, I'm far from that, or at least I hope I am and that this program has way more to give than I'm getting now. So I don't know why I'm not getting at least serious turmoil due to clearing and healing, and what it means that I'm not. Makes me wonder what this thing is doing. I mean even at 6 loops now, for several days, I feel perfectly fine and normal, zero issues with sleep/energy even.

Things with girls still seem miles off. I guess what I'm trying to say is, I'm not sure what this thing is doing to me. That issue of not having any issues with clearing and healing on this, getting something internally so I can't be stonewalling, but yet seeing nothing with girls, makes me wonder what is going on with this version.

That's it for now!

About a week ago my GF told me I was getting grey hair in my beard. I'm normally clean shaven but I have a rule if I don't work I don't shave. She noticed after the weekend growth. No grey on my head yet but she also noticed the hair on my head actually seemed thicker. I'm not balding but I had a small spot that had thinned out a bit. No more. It's thickened back up at least for the time being. I didn't think much about it. I just laughed about it at the time and​quite frankly forgot about it until I read your post.

[D.Ace]

Maybe you're still annoyed with my last comment, but it was partial.
And when I saw your comment on Hulse' wife, I was unsure if sex is the real thing you're after.
It's value, as you stated you'd want someone who thrives as you do and you refuse to go for exchanging money for a crotch sneeze or two (I raise my glass for those two).
As Shannon said that it would be us the users to define which one we find attractive or whatever you call it.
But with your situation, it's like sniping a 2 miles headshot, or worse you don't have any target around even if your conscious observation says you do.
What I meant by saying you failed to draw the very quality in other aspect where it is supposedly an edge could also mean you unconsciously drive the women away by the value you hold.
I believe you're aware that words in any interaction could only convey a small chunk of intended meaning, while other aspects we judge and measure them often beyond our conscious comprehension.
And man, you're financially capable to go around the states or even another countries, why not give it a shot?

I would say these 2 points, ever thought that women might perceive you (consciously or unconsciously) as a "too good to be true" kind of guy? And going to a different type of environment where you probably will find the answer.

[Catman]

Thanks Jake, that's why I mentioned it. It's possible it's similar to the losing hair situation many guys reports with an earlier version. Could be another attempt at resisting, so worth mentioning.

Hi D.ace. I don't know what you mean? I don't remember being "annoyed" by any comment for awhile now. So no, I'm not annoyed by your older comment, I think I vaguely remember what was in it. I think I answered it, either on the journal or in PM, and openly admitted often with people that I have issues with women obviously, that's why I'm here. It's no secret or recent big realisation. My comment on Hulse's wife was a broader view that guys teaching about women, like him and Eben Pagen, I found their wives to be unattractive, so I found it hard to take advice from them as big time experts is all. In Pagen's case, I found him to be a slimy internet marketer that plays on guy's insecurities to make money off them, while he doesn't exactly have a stunner on his arm but pretends to be an expert with women. He's become a multi-millionaire pulling that scam, which I find deplorable, him and others. Keep in mind I've had one on one coaching with a lot of these "gurus", so I know a lot more than most how phony they are, so it's hard for me to respect most of them. That doesn't mean I don't want sex at all, if that was truly the case 100%, I wouldn't be running this program. I think I remember saying I'm not running it to "bang 100 hot club chicks" or something similar, which is true, I'm not. I said I primarily want power and choice with women, as I've never had that with women before, which could then obviously lead to sex if I so chose to, and that sex felt further away than that to me now. Understand, that SEX...and "bang 100 hot club chicks" are two very different things. I'm not using this to get massive numbers of notches to show how "alpha" or "cool" I am to others or to myself. I want power and choice with women, which could then lead to sex if I so choose, big difference to me. Just to be clear on that.

"It's value, as you stated you'd want someone who thrives as you do and you refuse to go for exchanging money for a crotch sneeze or two". I don't understand what you mean by that. And I said I wanted an attractive woman as we all do, so I don't know what you mean by thriving, I don't want a wealthy woman if that's what you mean, for several reasons. Her money means nothing to me, I just want her to be attractive, loyal, and a good positive aspect to my life, mainly. So I don't understand. Do you mean hookers at the end of that? I don't want to go through this for the millionth time. I have ZERO interest in hiring a hooker. It proves nothing of my ability to get women on my own, and will further bolster my views on gold diggers and not being "good enough" to get women on my own. And having to wave money at them to buy access, which I view as pathetic and just another form of pedestalisation. I REALLY don't want yet another derail on the merits of hookers on my journal, if others like it, rock on. Why bother using a sub to attract women if you want to get a hooker? Makes zero sense to me, just go get one if you dig that. I'm not stooping to bribing a girl to touch me, if I was that desperate, and willing to lower my self worth even more with women, I would've done it a long time ago. I'm doing it "the normal way", creating attraction, or not at all. Getting penetration isn't worth further damage to my self worth by buying it. Too high a price tag for me.

I have several targets around me I'm very attracted to, and have mentioned that often. So I don't understand your view that I don't. There's 3 at a minimum right now, a possible 4th that I find physically attractive a lot, but have only known her a few weeks. There's tons of others I don't see in person much or for awhile I find very attractive, I guess that's where these "snipers" and "manifestations" are supposed to come in at some point. We'll see about that.

It would be the biggest mindscrew in the world if girls believed I was too good to be true. They seem to have mistreated me and taken me for granted, LJBF me, or blown me off my whole life. To me, that seems to suggest I'm not valuable for some reason to them. I would find it hard to believe, that all the not texting back, not calling back, not hitting me up for a date or chasing me, mistreatment blah blah blah, dating, sex, everything, is because each of them thought I was too good to be true. It's a nice thought, but I'm not sure I'd buy it given all the behaviour, I figure at least a few of them would've taken a chance at a coffee or something to test it. To me, it suggests some sort of "thing" they're all feeling, I'm not valuable to them somehow despite everything I bring to the table. Still, it would be amusing that some of these waitresses/hostesses I find attractive, somehow feel this way about me, not sure what to do about that or how to see if it's true, though.

I have NEVER been able to figure out a pattern with girls my entire life...except for one thing. Anytime I was only half-into a girl or less, or she THOUGHT I was only half-into her when I was really into her, she seemed to show some real possible signs of attraction. When I actually genuinely liked her after that, it always went to shit, she'd start being ignorant, distant, pulling away, more and more and more, until she's a memory and always "busy" and not responding and being a rude bitch. They don't seem to like it when I like them. So, if only I can somehow like them without liking them...nice paradox there, they're so ridiculous. I'm not even sure they're worth it, tough to know from my perspective, I have real doubts though. But, that's been the only pattern I've observed with any kind of reliability over tons of girls in my life. There must be something to it. I don't understand how to get around it though, makes no sense to me.

Bottom line, I feel the program is far from delivering on the girl front in reality. If V3.3 or so is supposed to be "final", I'm nervous. It feels like WAY too much of a leap to expect real results with real girls in reality in such a short time, given how things are. At this point, despite the higher loop count, I'm still not convinced programs of this nature work.

[D.Ace]

I was about to make some editing for I replied with phone and when I read it with PC now, the wording seems a bit odd. So yeah, I could understand it's not easy to get.

Thanks both of you for your posts.

However, I feel others are making a bigger deal about these things than I am.

I'm fully aware that I'm a monster in business, and still somehow have a complete deadlock with women, thanks. Maybe that can be changed here, we'll see.

I was only mentioning "my past" etc. in the vein of either answering questions about it that others ask me about it, or in the vein of Shannon and I having our talk about it I quoted above. That's it. Otherwise, I don't find it relevant or productive to go on about, and everybody inherently has a story anyway. Mine isn't more relevant or useful than others. I prefer to look forward anyway, that's more useful, ultimately.

That's what I referred as being annoyed, though it seemed you could maintain your poise while replying.

I guess my point is, I've worked hard to develop a great life, with great value. So I would NOT be satisfied with a mediocre woman. If I'm not at the point where I am developed enough where I can attract the attractive women I want, then I will be single and continue developing until I am. I will not undervalue myself, and go for mediocre out of desperation or giving up. I guess this is an issue of standards, how much you want to continue developing to be at the level of attractive women, or if you want to give up and accept mediocre. That's a choice each man has to make themselves, perhaps. Me? Go big or go home, like every other aspect of my life.

That's your comment on Hulse' wife and what I meant by saying "It's value, as you stated you'd want someone who thrives as you do", kinda distracted when typing it so "thriving" was chosen to say.

I don't want to go through this for the millionth time. I have ZERO interest in hiring a hooker. It proves nothing of my ability to get women on my own, and will further bolster my views on gold diggers and not being "good enough" to get women on my own. And having to wave money at them to buy access, which I view as pathetic and just another form of pedestalisation. I REALLY don't want yet another derail on the merits of hookers on my journal, if others like it, rock on. Why bother using a sub to attract women if you want to get a hooker? Makes zero sense to me, just go get one if you dig that. I'm not stooping to bribing a girl to touch me, if I was that desperate, and willing to lower my self worth even more with women, I would've done it a long time ago. I'm doing it "the normal way", creating attraction, or not at all. Getting penetration isn't worth further damage to my self worth by buying it. Too high a price tag for me.

I'm aware of your unwillingness to get a hooker, we're on the same board here, that's exactly why I said "you refuse to go for exchanging money for a crotch sneeze or two".

It would be the biggest mindscrew in the world if girls believed I was too good to be true. They seem to have mistreated me and taken me for granted, LJBF me, or blown me off my whole life. To me, that seems to suggest I'm not valuable for some reason to them. I would find it hard to believe, that all the not texting back, not calling back, not hitting me up for a date or chasing me, mistreatment blah blah blah, dating, sex, everything, is because each of them thought I was too good to be true. It's a nice thought, but I'm not sure I'd buy it given all the behaviour, I figure at least a few of them would've taken a chance at a coffee or something to test it. To me, it suggests some sort of "thing" they're all feeling, I'm not valuable to them somehow despite everything I bring to the table.

Being perceived as "too good to be true" doesn't always yield a positive result as giving a chance for a cup of coffee, it could also lead them to think "Naah, this guy would be a drag by demanding me be a high value woman at all times, it's no fun" or such. This is how our brains are wired, they're designed to associate one thing to another that if we could display it on a monitor we might think that we need some super huge asylum.

I have several targets around me I'm very attracted to, and have mentioned that often. So I don't understand your view that I don't.

I don't know you personally, so I might be being speculative for this one, but again by seeing your comment on Hulse' wife and what I tried to bring up by saying it's highly likely you're after a woman of value as you perceive yourself and sex is one of the consequence, what I was really trying to say is that the value you hold in yourself about the ideal attractive woman could prevent you from getting closer to any of them.
It's like you're saying "that girl's just damn hot, look at all those nice curves! She must be investing a lot of time at gym and maintaining herself, great!" and at the same time your value about women (which is way stronger) says, "a'ight, she's cute and smokin' hot too, but hell, I want something more, I'm gonna raise my bar"
And with your peers as you said in replying my comment, "most of my buddies either got married to the first girl who paid them attention and massively married down due to desperation, or are dating/shacked up with girls in the same situation" it acts as a backup for a justification of you unconsciously want something more.
That's what I meant by saying, "you don't have any target around even if your conscious observation says you do."

I have NEVER been able to figure out a pattern with girls my entire life...except for one thing. Anytime I was only half-into a girl or less, or she THOUGHT I was only half-into her when I was really into her, she seemed to show some real possible signs of attraction. When I actually genuinely liked her after that, it always went to shit, she'd start being ignorant, distant, pulling away, more and more and more, until she's a memory and always "busy" and not responding and being a rude bitch. They don't seem to like it when I like them. So, if only I can somehow like them without liking them...nice paradox there, they're so ridiculous. I'm not even sure they're worth it, tough to know from my perspective, I have real doubts though. But, that's been the only pattern I've observed with any kind of reliability over tons of girls in my life. There must be something to it. I don't understand how to get around it though, makes no sense to me.

This is exactly the first thing I learned as a teenager about girls dynamic. I consider myself as naturally good with women, but I guess it's not that "natural" since I recall my days of trial and error days back then, going from club to club, mall to mall and others. In our local community we have terms of GLOSSY guys and LOSSY guys.
Whenever you're half-into girl, you're a glossy guy and things tend to go nicely. And when you (carefreely displaying) that you actually genuinely like her (without realizing the consequence that you may look clingy that immediately vaporize the strong value you present earlier) and things end up shitty, you're being a lossy guy.
And glossy guys are always the winner of the entire game.

Bottom line, I feel the program is far from delivering on the girl front in reality. If V3.3 or so is supposed to be "final", I'm nervous. It feels like WAY too much of a leap to expect real results with real girls in reality in such a short time, given how things are. At this point, despite the higher loop count, I'm still not convinced programs of this nature work.

You know, since I replied to your thread, at times I thought how could someone resist this hard? From an outsider point of view, you do qualify as a potential player of the game. It led me to reread Mark Douglas' book on trading, I found some pages about how beliefs work and their effect on a trader's performance in the market, that particular page was about a boy with a trauma of a messy first encounter with dog, I somehow imagined you as a boy who's afraid of dog because your first contact with dog was an unpleasant one, that it's imprinted in your mind that all dogs are bad, this negatively-charged perception will tend to block any information or even slightest evidence of dogs being one of harmless creatures even if later you see kids at your age happily playing with dog.
That information was helpful for me in my own case, maybe you could at least relate and trying to guess how that boy gets out of his shell of being afraid of dogs to being able to have fun with them without discarding the possibility of mean dogs out there.
The storyline might be different, but the underlying dynamics are always the same, be it in the share market, social dynamics, and others as simple as playing around with dogs.

[Catman]

I wasn't annoyed in that post, I was saying others were making a bigger deal out of something than I was, and that it wasn't a problem to me as it was believed to be. Not a problem at all, I didn't want people spending time on a problem I don't believe exists is all.

I think you're reading too much into two things:

1. The point about what I want. I don't want a wealthy, "accomplished" female (what I assume you mean) as I feel they're too into trying to "prove" themselves to a man due to feminist brainwashing and believe the constant power struggles and what not are somehow attractive. They aren't. And I don't want a woman I barely get to see due to her career. I simply want what I said, an attractive girl, takes care of herself, is loyal and a positive aspect of my life. I don't feel a conflict in that regard at all.

2. The point about my friends was to illustrate how I had no "mentors" about women around me, as all my friends married the first very unattractive girl that talked to them out of extreme blue pill desperation. And are now completely henpecked by some overbearing harpy, either vastly undervaluing themselves, or being so lazy they didn't want to develop to get a hotter girl or too desperate for their own good. So yeah, I want more than THAT for sure, haha. I'm also uninterested in marriage, because I don't want to get financially destroyed in a divorce, as I've seen that happen too many times up close. Good men ruined forever by it. Nope, no way. I'll date etc. but marriage, in this man-hating culture? No way. This point you made was confusing because you talked about me having no girls around me to use DMSI with, when I do, but you now seem to mean no friends around to emulate.

Maybe it is a language issue. I tried to explain what I said in those quotes a different way again here. Hopefully it paints a clearer picture.

Yeah the thing about girls not liking it when you like them makes no sense to me. How do you ever date them? Have sex with them? Obviously, you like them or you wouldn't be there, so I don't get why they get repelled, it's stupid. Like you could be married for 50 years, 3 kids, but still be pulling the cold, distant alpha thing like IDGAF...lol. I have no idea what they want, they make no sense. The only pattern I can observe is something that is a paradox, so that's not a good start.

I get you on the analogy. Sadly, that was one incident with my arm, there were many others. But, as I've said before, I know others who have had similar incidences, or worse, but yet went on to not need to resort to subs to get women. So it can't be the only reason WHY. At times, I wonder if this is the right path and actually worthwhile. As it seems to just be a never ending spiral down the well of "trying to figure out what's wrong", endlessly delving into insecurities and issues, never really seeming to be breaking through etc., not a whole lot of traction in reality.

I don't know if I'm truly resisting more than others here, I've thought about this often. I only see a few updates out of all that truly seem to be about real life results in clear focus. Many updates still seem to be about dreams, looks, feet pointing, or proposed things happening that aren't really groundbreaking or easily explainable as unrelated and normal. So not much different than my updates, maybe I'm more upfront about it so I stand out. But, I'm still not convinced these "attraction" programs, making others become attracted to you somehow, can work as proposed. Although I know programs that work with a focus on dealing internally can, I've seen that with ASC and E2. Probably because it's trying to get dominion over YOUR mind, which is easier. But, when you try to listen to something, to go into your mind, which is then going out into OTHER people's minds to make them do something, especially something females of their attractiveness don't EVER do aside for rich guys or famous guys or bad boys, I'm not so sure it can work as well due to the added complexity of that now. The jury is still out for me.

[swisston]

As someone who went grey early, I would say don't worry about it. I am generally known as the Silver Fox. Women seem to like the grey hair.

[Catman]

I have a real "thing" about it. I never got to hit "normal" age milestones with women as I described. So I guess I have a real issue about getting to "I have grey hair" stage of life without ever getting any of that. I feel it's an injustice in a way. I feel I've been robbed of that whole period in between by things I don't even understand, and don't seem to have gotten rid of yet. I have enough of a problem attracting women and doing things with them, especially young ones I like, so grey hair may not make getting those ones any easier. Aside from them, it's women my age who have taken terrible care of themselves, expect a meal ticket, and/or have kids from somebody else, are also in terrible shape, and also expect a meal ticket for her and the kids. Raw deal unless I go young, which will be so much tougher with hair matching their Father. Just a bad scene.

I mentioned it because it began shortly after starting this version, so maybe it's another form of resistance, to make me what I view as unsexy etc. to resist the script. Hopefully it can be dealt with if it's a problem. If not, I'm looking into options immediately, this is scary to me.

[Shawn]

I have a real "thing" about it. I never got to hit "normal" age milestones with women as I described. So I guess I have a real issue about getting to "I have grey hair" stage of life without ever getting any of that. I feel it's an injustice in a way. I feel I've been robbed of that whole period in between by things I don't even understand, and don't seem to have gotten rid of yet. I have enough of a problem attracting women and doing things with them, especially young ones I like, so grey hair may not make getting those ones any easier. Aside from them, it's women my age who have taken terrible care of themselves, expect a meal ticket, and/or have kids from somebody else, are also in terrible shape, and also expect a meal ticket for her and the kids. Raw deal unless I go young, which will be so much tougher with hair matching their Father. Just a bad scene.

I mentioned it because it began shortly after starting this version, so maybe it's another form of resistance, to make me what I view as unsexy etc. to resist the script. Hopefully it can be dealt with if it's a problem. If not, I'm looking into options immediately, this is scary to me.

I also got some grey hair but for me it was worst on V2.2 as far I remember and best on V2.5 where I almost recovered. But for me it's mostly beard hair, only found like 2 or 3 grey hair on my head. Saying this my "haircut" is similar to Shannon's so the head hair probably never get long enough to really notice.

I also remember someone posting about grey hair on V1 so it's not a new phenomenon.

[D.Ace]

Travis and Enoch grasped what I was saying, so I don't know if it's you being too professional at all or rarely if ever spend some time on the street, lol.
Joke aside, I think it's a good idea for me to learn English for business, see? you sparked an idea once again.

Two things you pointed out are basically the same things I tried to say, though on divorce rate, I couldn't make any further comment for I don't live in the States.
But somehow I sensed a type of fear based on what you assumed about divorce rate (which might be backed up by facts on paper) that has a possibility to taint your perception when dealing with women.

I do agree on not dwelling for too long on finding what's wrong, that's why I came with an idea of a getaway.
You could stop using the subs and go to some place totally different from your current environment.
Get some break and enjoying the time you deserve for your accomplishment and at the same time finding out whether the subs really work for you or not.
I can see from your writings that you're a bright man, but high intelligence often leads to analysis paralysis in some aspects, namely dealing with women.
So why not do something out of impulse?
Go to the airport, pick one flight randomly, and go.
I've done it, and if you're aware of how patterns work it's sometimes by simply breaking it will lead to new things.

I wanna say good luck but I don't believe in it, so I wish you strength, man.
You know you have it.
Cheers,


Ace