Appetite Suppressant - AS5.75

[rono]

Okay, will try it at lower volumes and possibly directly on the iPhone 3. Funny how this worked so quickly with me and then stalled with her.

We just went for a 3 day vacation so I figured I'd try just giving her a break and start anew when we returned home. I just re-started playing it for her this am when we were making our Saturday breakfast and it played for a couple hours while we cooked, ate and cleaned up.

Tonight I'll go back to playing it all night I think. Maybe I'll put it on my side of the room rather than hers since that is where I had the speaker when we did DMSI and it worked so well for her. Maybe it sounding like it is farther away will help--not just lower volume. I moved it to her side of the room for this because I wanted her to 'hear it real well'.

Thanks for your help! Here' hoping it takes with her. She says she really wants it to work.

[Shannon]

Further away is lower volume. Volume drops off at the square of the distance from the source. Just like light.

[rono]

Further away is lower volume.  Volume drops off at the square of the distance from the source.  Just like light.

There's not just the distance when it's on my side of the room, there's obstruction by the bed, covers, etc. since I was putting it on the ground on my side of the room. That's what I'll try next cycle. No joy this past cycle. She isn't gaining, just not losing.

[Shannon]

Further away is lower volume.  Volume drops off at the square of the distance from the source.  Just like light.

There's not just the distance when it's on my side of the room, there's obstruction by the bed, covers, etc. since I was putting it on the ground on my side of the room. That's what I'll try next cycle. No joy this past cycle. She isn't gaining, just not losing.

Distance and obstructions definitely decrease volume at the ear.

Was she gaining, holding or losing when the volume was high or medium level?

[rono]

Further away is lower volume.  Volume drops off at the square of the distance from the source.  Just like light.

There's not just the distance when it's on my side of the room, there's obstruction by the bed, covers, etc. since I was putting it on the ground on my side of the room. That's what I'll try next cycle. No joy this past cycle. She isn't gaining, just not losing.

Distance and obstructions definitely decrease volume at the ear.

Was she gaining, holding or losing when the volume was high or medium level?

When we first started using the sub she began losing, dropped about 5 lbs in about 2 weeks as I recall. Then she stalled and started going backward, but never as far back as when she started (at least if she did she didin't report it to me). At that point I had it at medium volume with the bluetooth speaker on her side of the room. 

During the same period I lost 7 or 8 lbs and also stopped. I hold steady (with momentary ups and downs of a couple days) at ~190lbs. I do not change substantially whether we're listening to the sub regularly or on break. I think for me it has done what it's going to do. I feel my muscles are still doing ok, though since covid began have felt a bit weaker, probably due to a break from the workout regimen which had worked for me for several months which I found impossible to reproduce adequately without gym equipment, though we spent hundreds of dollars' worth on home equipment which I did use faithfully.

She quickly found ways to reproduce her workout regimen at home--we bought weights and got my old bench out and set her up in the extra bedroom. She actually likes working out at home. I'm not that hot on it for the reasons I mentioned above. But now that I'm back at the gym, the muscles seem weaker but I feel better, except greatly increased joint pain, which may harken back to trying to workout in less than adequate ways.

I started again last night with the sub playing on the floor on my side of the room and I'll go back to the 4 days on 1 day off routine to see if this changes something. I'm starting to wonder if there isn't something about the messages in the sub that her subconscious simple can't go along with. She doesn't have headaches or tension, though she has gotten angry more often which I was attributing to covid restrictions anxiety (the California governor is the most strict AND invasive of the governors in the US-- e.g. we are supposed to wear masks in our own homes at Thanksgiving, and any family gathering).

Any thoughts about beliefs she might have that the sub might be running up against?

Still wondering if you think after all this time it might be good to give it a try just running it wall-to-wall, say 20 hours a day till we get a breakthrough?

[Shannon]

At this point I'm pretty sure her subconscious is resisting. Most likely believes it will die if she loses weight. I never understood that logic but hey, who said emotions are logical? If you want to try bombardment go ahead.  At some point I'm going to build a more advanced version and we can try that.

[rono]

At this point I'm pretty sure her subconscious is resisting. Most likely believes it will die if she loses weight. I never understood that logic but hey, who said emotions are logical? If you want to try bombardment go ahead.  At some point I'm going to build a more advanced version and we can try that.

I'll give it a one or two day break, then begin the wall-to-wall protocol.

We'll see... I can't imagine why her subconscious would be resisting. She's def got a rebellious side, but this is something she says she wants. She has never exhibited fear about losing weight. She is nervous about not getting enough protein and nutrients because they had tried to get her to take any osteopenia meds, which I successfully treated with an herbal protocol, but that's all I can think of.

I'll keep you posted.

[Shannon]

What you may not realize is that resisting being "told what to do" - which is what it sounds like her subconscious is trying to do - is based in a fear of losing self control. Eating is frequently associated with survival by the subconscious, and may be associated with love, security and other basic needs as well. If for some reason her subconscious has concluded, using that delightfully illogical "logic" that the subconscious uses, that losing weight or eating less frequently or less is a threat to its survival, or its "being loved" or "being secure", it may resist. This could be a deep fear that makes no sense logically, and remember that it is actually quite common for the conscious and subconscious minds to disagree on what they want for these reasons. One can think logically, and one can't; this can lead to extreme disagreements between them.

[fab10]

So if the problems were indeed fear, would that mean that OF is the recommendation in case this sub does not work for her?

[rono]

What you may not realize is that resisting being "told what to do" - which is what it sounds like her subconscious is trying to do - is based in a fear of losing self control.  Eating is frequently associated with survival by the subconscious, and may be associated with love, security and other basic needs as well.  If for some reason her subconscious has concluded, using that delightfully illogical "logic" that the subconscious uses, that losing weight or eating less frequently or less is a threat to its survival, or its "being loved" or "being secure", it may resist.  This could be a deep fear that makes no sense logically, and remember that it is actually quite common for the conscious and subconscious minds to disagree on what they want for these reasons.  One can think logically, and one can't; this can lead to extreme disagreements between them.

Strange that she would resist. I suppose it depends on the exact nature of the suggestions being used (which are proprietary). Because two years ago, she lost the weight on her own, just be controlling what she ate and by adopting a new exercise program. I do know some of her stubborn beliefs, one is "all calories are the same". She only most of the time complies with a protocol that would prevent insulin spikes (which encourage body fat). She doesn't think a 'small amount of carbs, be they sweets, etc. will 'hurt'. I'm very strict about this and it maybe a factor in why it's easier for me to control my own weight. She also seems to feel she has the 'right' to snacks if she stays more-or-less at the calorie level she is seeking. There may be some 'magical thinking' going on since we started the sub where she thinks that it should just work automatically whether she changes her habits consciously or not.
It worked for me by making it easier to simply change my habits around eating, not finish things on the plate if I noticed I was starting to feel full. In her case, she continues to finish up the salad or fruit left on the table if I don't eat it. On the salad, I don't think she is really noting how much calories she puts on it in olive oil (her favorite dressing). On the fruit, she just likes fruit so much that she eats whatever she cuts up even it if is more than what the agreed upon serving should be. "It's easier to eat it than to throw it away or save it" is a thought process I've observed that has not changed with the sub.

Maybe the suggestions just don't hit the right 'notes' for her, given her biases?

[rono]

So, I've settled on doing a wall-to-wall 'bombardment' as Shannon called it, 24 hours on and 24 or so hours off.
I've started to see response. Not in weight loss, but in behavior. I offered to take her out for lunch and she really hesitated and then only ate half the salad she ordered.

My weight automatically dropped about 2 lbs. I think it may partially be the change in the weather. Suddenly it was cold instead of hot. I tend to just adapt and not put on additional clothing to 'stay warm'. So this is likely upping my metabolism.

It may take a bit, but perhaps this will do the trick.

[Shannon]

What you may not realize is that resisting being "told what to do" - which is what it sounds like her subconscious is trying to do - is based in a fear of losing self control.  Eating is frequently associated with survival by the subconscious, and may be associated with love, security and other basic needs as well.  If for some reason her subconscious has concluded, using that delightfully illogical "logic" that the subconscious uses, that losing weight or eating less frequently or less is a threat to its survival, or its "being loved" or "being secure", it may resist.  This could be a deep fear that makes no sense logically, and remember that it is actually quite common for the conscious and subconscious minds to disagree on what they want for these reasons.  One can think logically, and one can't; this can lead to extreme disagreements between them.

Strange that she would resist. I suppose it depends on the exact nature of the suggestions being used (which are proprietary). Because two years ago, she lost the weight on her own, just be controlling what she ate and by adopting a new exercise program. I do know some of her stubborn beliefs, one is "all calories are the same". She only most of the time complies with a protocol that would prevent insulin spikes (which encourage body fat). She doesn't think a 'small amount of carbs, be they sweets, etc. will 'hurt'. I'm very strict about this and it maybe a factor in why it's easier for me to control my own weight. She also seems to feel she has the 'right' to snacks if she stays more-or-less at the calorie level she is seeking. There may be some 'magical thinking' going on since we started the sub where she thinks that it should just work automatically whether she changes her habits consciously or not.
It worked for me by making it easier to simply change my habits around eating, not finish things on the plate if I noticed I was starting to feel full. In her case, she continues to finish up the salad or fruit left on the table if I don't eat it. On the salad, I don't think she is really noting how much calories she puts on it in olive oil (her favorite dressing). On the fruit, she just likes fruit so much that she eats whatever she cuts up even it if is more than what the agreed upon serving should be. "It's easier to eat it than to throw it away or save it" is a thought process I've observed that has not changed with the sub.

Maybe the suggestions just don't hit the right 'notes' for her, given her biases?

What you describe her doing, on the contrary, tells me that the script is working, but she is doing everything in her power to sabotage it.  In this case, self deception and possibly some self delusion, and trying to blame the program for her own choices.

If she was doing fine before just by willpower, and now she needs help, then her will has changed focus.  The core of this will no doubt, again, be a fear or fears.  She is definitely trying to find excuses to sabotage the program.  That wouldn't be necessary if it wasn't doing something to achieve its goals.  She just, at some level, has decided that the goals of this program are to be resisted and avoided for some reason.  Fear of losing control, or a fear of achieving the goal weight, or both, are solid bets.

[Shannon]

So, I've settled on doing a wall-to-wall 'bombardment' as Shannon called it, 24 hours on and 24 or so hours off.
I've started to see response. Not in weight loss, but in behavior. I offered to take her out for lunch and she really hesitated and then only ate half the salad she ordered.

My weight automatically dropped about 2 lbs. I think it may partially be the change in the weather. Suddenly it was cold instead of hot. I tend to just adapt and not put on additional clothing to 'stay warm'. So this is likely upping my metabolism.

It may take a bit, but perhaps this will do the trick.

If you're going to do bombardment, time off may not be a good idea.  See how this approach works, and if it too starts to fail, then reduce the time off until she cooperates or you're doing 24/7.

[rono]

So, I've settled on doing a wall-to-wall 'bombardment' as Shannon called it, 24 hours on and 24 or so hours off.
I've started to see response. Not in weight loss, but in behavior. I offered to take her out for lunch and she really hesitated and then only ate half the salad she ordered.

My weight automatically dropped about 2 lbs. I think it may partially be the change in the weather. Suddenly it was cold instead of hot. I tend to just adapt and not put on additional clothing to 'stay warm'. So this is likely upping my metabolism.

It may take a bit, but perhaps this will do the trick.

If you're going to do bombardment, time off may not be a good idea.  See how this approach works, and if it too starts to fail, then reduce the time off until she cooperates or you're doing 24/7.

Okay, I'll give my current pattern a couple more days, then go 24/7.
Seems so strange that she's not responding. 
At what point would I just give up? a week of 24/7? 2 weeks of 24/7?

btw: my weight is very much settled at the 5lbs lighter than when I started. If it bounces up for a day because of a party or dinner out, within a couple days it drops right back down.

This past week I weighed EXACTLY the same each morning plus or minus 2 tenths of a pound. It won't do me any harm to continue to be exposed to the AppSupp, will it? Even though I've responded very well....?