About's WM2.0 Journal

[Shannon]

It is getting late and I am tired, but you raise too many important points to not respond thoroughly. My impression after reading what you wrote can be summed up as... you haven't been successful with what you tried, so you're going to do it this way, regardless of hat anyone else points out, and you're also going to find a way to justify it. In other words, you are going to do what you want to do, and see what you want to believe, and that's that. Your choice, and good luck with it. Try not to win the Darwin Award before you get past it.

That doesn't give me much incentive to reply, but some of your points I would like to respond to at least so you understand where I was coming from a little better.

I happen to believe, based on my research and observations, that humans are naturally programmed at a genetic level to maximize genetic diversity and survival opportunities for the species. In other words, humans are designed to have sex with every possible mate, and reproduce at every possible opportunity. This fits what you are talking about. It's also why we as a species are ranked second in global population only to insects, which are much smaller and have nothing but instinct to go on for reproductive limits[...]

A woman having a piece of metal on her finger only means what it is agreed to mean. If she honors her commitment to the vow she made to her husband by actually getting married, she will not have sex with you regardless. If she does not, then the ring on her finger does not mean much. But when you get involved with a married women, you are opening up a major can of worms that can very realistically get you killed. Regardless of how much you may only be acting out of your natural genetic instructions.

Sound advice, and I realize that. But my commitment to mankind is more than my sex drive. I believe that marriage and the idea of love/monogamy is destroying the higher levels of consciousness that you seem to be aware of and yet seem to tie that enlightened perspective in with monogamy/love.

You seem to be implying that you have a commitment to mankind, but the genes are mindless and selfish. Your stated commitment in all this is to yourself, and nobody else.

Marriage is useful for certain things, and not useful for others. Levels of consciousness have nothing to do with it. It is a choice you either make, or don't make. You are assuming that I tie the two together, and simultaneously seem to be making excuses to allow yourself to ignore that two married people have made a vow to one another, and that inevitably, someone (and probably several someones) will get hurt by your actions if you ignore that fact. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Humans ARE animals, but we can use our brains. That's basically how I see it. Like it or not, to even reproduce you have to be somewhat animalistic. If you're too "in your head/intellectual" women don't get turned on, as they are emotional creatures of instinct. We may have the brains, but we have not yet been able to effectively mate without our animalistic nature. Unless you count artificial insemination and whatnot. (Something I hope will be overcome in the next round of evolution tbh)

The human body is animal in nature. The human is not just a body, however. It also consists of the mind, and the emotions, among other things that are non-physical.

All humans are or are not emotional creatures of instinct to a roughly equal degree, not just male or female humans. In the past, I was most definitely driven completely by my emotions, and later my reproductive drive. Now I am driven by a balance of my mind, emotions, and instincts, along with the understanding I have of the world around me and how it and the things in it work. There are times when I am more or less driven by my need for sex, but I am not controlled by my sex drive anymore. I decide when, with whom, how often, where, how, etc.

The body alone is the animal expression of the human creature. The rest is what makes us human, and not just animals. You can choose to focus through your mind/emotions and ignore your body, or through your body and ignore your mind/emotions, or through a balance of these.

The current human reproductive method does require animalistic action, and that's not a problem. The problem comes when you allow that animalistic action to become you, take you over, control you - instead of controlling and directing it.

A human who is driven by their genetic code alone is not a man or woman, but an animal. S/He will resort to the lowest of behaviors to get his/her genetic instructions acted out and fulfilled. This is why there is so much prevalence of pregnancy among the least educated, and why shows like Jerry Springer exist: these people are not thinking, they are just acting on animal instinct. A man or woman who chooses to be his or her full potential is above that, recognizes that an animal is beneath him or herself, and has too much self respect, self esteem and self value to do such things. The more high value a particular person is, the harder it is to mate with them; thus, highly educated people and the very wealthy generally have far fewer children per capita than the type of person you see going on Jerry Springer.

So perhaps I'm so high value I'll never mate? Well that kills. I mean seriously, we gonna let the "high value" genes die off just because we can't stand to be "animals"? Isn't it best to put down the ego sometimes and do what needs to be done?

You seem here to have exchanged logic for sarcasm. High value always has options to mate and reproduce because they can have anyone they want. If high value chooses to mate with mow value, then they do. If they choose to mate with high value, then they do. I'm not the best at "gaming" women, but I get what I want. It may take me a little longer than other guys sometimes, but I do it. And it's getting easier and easier as time goes on, because my value is increasing steadily.

My biggest problem in life is that I've always seen myself as "higher value" than everyone. And you're right, it is VERY hard to mate this way. In fact, so far (for me) it's been impossible. I may have a good job, a nice income, I'm on my way to starting on the path I ACTUALLY want to be on, never done drugs, never been drunk, never been in jail, never this, never that. Never laid.

Perhaps your view of yourself was not shared by others. Perhaps it came across in a negative way that repelled them. Perhaps it was an expression of ego instead of reality, a psychological defense mechanism for countering subconscious feelings of inferiority? Or perhaps you fear women subconsciously, or something about the mating process? There are dozens of reasons why you might think you are high value and not get laid. You might even actually BE high value and have a hard time getting laid, if you're doing something wrong and don't yet understand what that thing is.

I mean great, I'm high value, whoop-dee doo. But it's about time nature figures out a way to mate the high value types and fill the world up with THOSE children instead of the low-value people who populate the world and bring it ever closer to destruction and certainly make the world a miserable place to live in.

High value gets laid. Nature's interested in the baser instincts, and the survival of the fittest says that high intelligence, or otherwise high value genes will find a way to survive regardless, or they weren't actually all that high value. Humanity has been in a downward spiral evolutionarily for a while now, because we have taken the challenge to survival out of our environment and no longer have anything to strive for - at least in "developed" countries.

But you know what? I'm not going to wait for "nature" to save me any more than I'm gonna wait for "God". A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do, and I sincerely hope that I can be an example to everyone that shows that you can indeed surpass the "low value" nature without losing the "perks". Does this make sense?

Sometimes, you just gotta get fucked. I understand. Really I do.

And hey, if my life has to be in danger to achieve this, then so be it. I doubt any revolutionary in the history of the world ever shied away from what they believed to be right just because it might mean their death.

I would hardly call you a revolutionary. In fact you're doing what lower value or beta males have always done down through history to get their genes propagated. Whatever it takes. That's actually how humans began evolving intelligence. Some guy all that time ago discovered that he couldn't best the alpha, but he could bribe a female for sex if he brought her food. She chose him, smarter but not stronger, and his genes began to propagate. As the behavior caught on, the benefits were enough to make those genes - higher intelligence - stick around. So us small guys with big brains are evolved from sneaky bastards who did whatever it took to get laid. People judge me as being unimportant all the time because of my body type. But I'd say my brain more than makes up for that, and using my brain, I have found ways to access all the eggs I could ever want access to. I choose not to access the eggs of all the females I have available to me in that way for various reasons, but that's not to say I could not if I chose to.

At the same time, these people are more sought after for mating privileges because - in part - they are particular, and they are high value. Part of expressing high value is being able to and willing to pick and be choosy with whom you share your genetic material for reproductive purposes. This is why a woman who is greeted by a man with disinterest will often seek his interest, and even pursue him. He is demonstrating high value by his disinterest, which signals that he has other, possibly better, options.

I disagree. It's not so much disinterest as it is purpose. A man on a mission is less interested in the woman than he is with his mission. He doesn't have to be choosy, he just is. DHV is a pick-up routine that is partially accurate, but not entirely. Yes "high value" people ARE demonstrating high value, but it's who they are that is high value, NOT the fact that they need to create it.

I don't have to be choosy, but I sure as hell don't want 3,000 kids to feed. I don't have to be choosy, but I sure as hell don't want to have kids before I become a millionaire and possibly lose my shot because I can't focus on making money as effectively anymore. I don't have to be choosy, but I don't want my kids to have diseases, deformities, disorders, addictions or just plain be ugly when they're born. But I think you're misunderstanding my point here. When I say disinterest signals higher value, I mean it signals that to her - faking it only worked until women were aware of the fakery. It's not a pick-up routine to be genuinely disinterested and have women genuinely be attracted as a result. I can attest to that first hand.

Why does being yourself work so well with women? Because it demonstrates high value. If you have to pretend or be fake to get a woman, you are demonstrating that you don't believe in yourself yet and are not living life the way you want to which, of course, demonstrates low value. Has nothing to do with marriage or whatnot, at least not in my opinion.

I concur.

In the end, you must choose whether you will be a man, in control of his sex drive, or an animal, being enslaved to it.

Well, this is a bit too black and white for me to be honest. We are animals by nature, you can never separate the human from the being until you die.

Humans among all the animals have the potential to be whatever they choose to be. That means you can choose to e nothing more than a gene slave sperm donor animal... or you can rise to your full potential as an intelligent, wise, understanding creature which happens to be focused through an animal body in order to experience the limitations of the physical world.

The sex drive is genetic, and emotional, and in both cases primarily ruled by the subconscious, which never rests. So you must control it while you are conscious, or it will control you. A man who is slave to his sex drive is not a man, but a slave and an animal, seeking to express his genes any way possible. He is not a leader, because he is a slave. That is low value, and that is why desperation chases away the women.

Genuine self control is as powerful an attractant to women as genuine self confidence. As a case in point, I know a woman who is interested in me who I have had sexual access to three times. Three times now, out of the five times I have been in her presence, I reasonably could have had sex with her. And yet, even after she took her clothes off and laid down on my bed and even spread her legs for me - two different times - I did not respond by having sex with her.

Did I want to? Yes. But I controlled myself, because I used my brain and I knew that it would cause problems. And what is the result of my self control? She wants me even more every time I refuse her. Whereas it was possible with great effort on my part the first time, I now have her doing everything but forcing me. She comes to me, she takes her clothes off without being asked, she offers me sex in whatever way I want it. Why? Because I demonstrated concern for her well-being in refusing her, and mastery of my animal instincts. She now knows I am a leader, not a slave to my sex drive, and that I am more concerned with her well being than just getting my dick wet. So she trusts me, and I now have free access to her sexually whenever I want it.

I am not just out for me, and my own pleasure. I am out to help her, and my sexual desires take a back seat to that because I know that having sex with her would only hurt her. Even though she expects to be treated like that by men, and would continue to welcome it if I used her for my selfish sexual interests.

I am controlling my animal body, and I have MORE sexual access because of it.

You say that love makes one's heart finite, but you just said that you were polyamorous, which is the very thing you now claim love is not.

Perhaps to you. To me, it's like this:

I like who I want to like, and **** (hopefully) who I want to ****, and ignore who I want to ignore.

If that makes me [insert descriptive term here] then so be it. I only use these terms to try and translate what I'm saying, but perhaps I chose poorly.

Like and love are very different, as are love and fucking.

What love is, depends on what you make it. In the beginning of every relationship there is a period of time during which a couple makes and sets rules that will govern their relationship. The vast majority of the time, these rules are set by both parties to "default", which is to say, they just go with what society, religion, family, and expectations from others tell them to go with, and never even consider that they have the option of setting rules any other way.

And yet I have had multiple girlfriends at the same time, more than once, who all knew about one another and knew I was having romantic/sexual relations with all of them, specifically because I stated up front, during that rule-making period, that I was going to do exactly that, and if they wanted to be with me as more than a friend, they would have to choose to deal with that fact. In the beginning I did this because I was simply tired of being unhappy with having one woman who was what I wanted or needed in some areas, but not in others, who obstructed me from being happy in the rest of those areas. The idea that "there is someONE for everyone" didn't seem to work, so I changed the rules and let the chips fall where they may. And when I did this, openly, honestly, and stood my ground, a magical thing happened: I ended up with every woman who expressed interest going from "I could never do that." to "I want to be your girlfriend regardless." Usually in about 24-48 hours.

I'd love to know how to do this. I admit I'm not blunt because I rarely think it'll work so yes, manipulation is a game I play. It never works, I'm getting tired of it, but I haven't figured out how to be honest without being "too honest", if you know what I mean.

In my experience, honesty antagonizes people and drives them away.

I told you how to do it. It's very simple. Decide what you want, then be up front about that, and let the chips fall where they may. Refuse to allow her to control your choices, and be ready to have some women disagree.

It's hard to think being honest could possibly work when you're coming from a position of weakness, or perceived weakness, and you haven't been honest and just owned your desires and choices and allowed the chips to fall where they may. There's no such thing as "too honest". You just need to find the women who want the balance of what you want. That is, if you want a harem, you need a woman who wants to be part of one.

Honesty usually only antagonizes if you are lacking in tact, or you are dealing with the wrong people. Those it drives away are those you don't want to be dealing with regardless, if you're being honest with tact.

The difference between what you have been proposing, and what I am proposing is that I am being brutally, blatantly honest and I genuinely don't care if they do or don't want to be with me as more than friends. I let them decide, based on the whole truth, and I make sure they know well in advance exactly what they're agreeing to by being with me. If you do this, and you present yourself as a high enough value target, they will surprise you.

I'm interested as to why you were able to deduce I am not honest. I mean, I'm not (honestly ), well sometimes anyways- but what did I write that made you think so?

Deduction was unnecessary. You flat out told me so. What you described doing, being willing to do, and what you plan to do, all require deception, and therefore point to someone who is not being honest.

Now that's not to say that I always want multiple simultaneous girlfriends, but if I do, it's just a matter of being honest and up front about my needs, or wants or desires, and then letting the chips fall where they may.

They go for it because they recognize that a man who can do that has a lot going for him. Women value boldness and honesty in a man far more than you might realize, specifically because they deal so commonly with people who are weak and trying to lie their way into whatever they want. A woman will often take me up on a relationship even if she doesn't like knowing I have other girlfriends specifically because she knows that if I have the balls to be honest about that, I'm going to have no reason to be dishonest about anything at all. She knows where she stands with me, and she never has to worry about being cheated on or lied to, because by my rules, it's impossible to cheat on her (cheating means breaking the rules) since the rules I set specifically allow me to have as many girlfriends as I want. And at that point, what have I got to gain versus lose by lying? I have nothing to gain, and every man's dream to lose. So on top of being honest because I have honor as a man, I am honest because it would be idiotically and unbearably stupid for me to lie.

Like I said, I'd love to know how to do this. Reading recommendations perhaps?

Again... choose what you want. Choose to own your desires. Be honest about it. Own the truth and the reality of your choice, and refuse to back down. Let the chips fall where they may. I didn't learn this from a book. I learned it from being sick of playing the lying game with women. There's no way to win that game. The only way out is honesty.

On the other hand, a guy who is willing to have sex with a married woman is displaying low self esteem, low self respect, low value, and no consideration for those around him. He is acting selfishly without thought, as an animal expressing it's genetic instructions, and so is the female he is mating with. Neither respects each other or their relationships or partners, and it always ends badly.

I disagree here. What if the girl never knew there was another way? You said it yourself that most people just go to the default ways society has set up for relationships. Why is marriage any different? Surely it's better for people to be free and go through the pain of change than be miserable in something that's quite unnatural, is it not?

Just because marriage is unnatural to a human's genetic instruction set does not mean that the mind, emotions, upbringing or beliefs cannot override those instructions and make monogamy or marriage a genuinely desirable thing for that person or couple. Not everyone would be miserable in a state of marriage, nor would everyone be miserable with every option for whom to marry. You're looking for excuses to justify your desires to disregard marriage as a valid obstacle to sexual access with a given woman.

Not every married woman is going to be in the same situation. She might be married but separated, in the process of a divorce, unable to get a divorce with a man she no longer loves or wants to be around. In such cases it's a judgement call. But in the case that a woman is trying to be faithful, it is not always hard to seduce her into being otherwise. I have had a number of married women who would otherwise never consider having sex with anyone but their husbands, offer me sex in a moment of weakness when they were at the right point in their cycle, or depressed, or highly aroused, or whatever. You cannot just assume that such women, and their families, will be okay if you have sex with them. You can and will do them real damage, and you can destroy someone's life and damage their psyche that way. In the end, you always pay for what harm you do. Somehow, some way.

Like your subs man. You always say we gotta go through the rough patches to get to where we want to go, and I agree with you. In fact, I agree with most everything you're saying here except when it comes to some kind of morality. I'm quite A-moral, and realize that morality, laws, altruism (read Atlas Shrugged by any chance?) and all that are simply constructs created by men from a primitive time. Times are changing, and it's time we change with em.

Morality is a set of rules that people in a society live by to make that society function. Morality, laws, etc. may be constructs made by man, but they exist for reasons, and often very good reasons. It isn't because they were primitive and we are so awesomely evolved now that we don't need them. Times are indeed changing, but that doesn't mean that I am going to be any less hurt if you have sex with my girlfriend when she's in a moment of weakness, or that if I was married and you had sex with my wife that my kids wouldn't suffer emotional trauma from the fallout. You're not thinking of anyone but yourself, and I guarantee you, that path is going to lead you to pain, suffering and regrets. How old are you right now, by the way?

Long ago, before I created AM, I was at a bookstore one night when I had a woman catch my eye who I just could not ignore. I walked over and we started talking, and it quickly became apparent that she was just as irresistibly attracted. We left together and went out to dinner, where while holding my hands, she hung her head and - clearly not wanting to - confessed to being married, with kids.

[snip]

Let me tell you this. Having a loaded gun shoved in your face is a life changing event. The genuine and imminent threat of death is something you have to really work hard to become comfortable with, and I guarantee you that you aren't. You may not meet with a gun in your face the first time you do it, or the second or the third, but sooner or later it or something worse will happen. And a man killing you in a fit of rage for having adulterous sex with his wife is not exactly a slam dunk case of he goes to jail. He might walk, and then finish the job.

Yeah I totally understand. I've had a few near-death experiences myself, and I do indeed, each time, surrender to the will of the universe. It's an amazing calm. In fact, I believe it to be the state most desirable to live life in, but it's hard to duplicate unless you are facing death in the face.

What could be learned from this, however, is to perhaps do it where even if she tells said guy, you can't be traced? Like a motel or something?

I mean, he showed up at your doorstep. Why did you take her to your house??

In fact you don't understand. The point was that I stayed alive because he recognized that I knew that what I had done was wrong, that it hurt him, and that I was hurting because I had hurt him. He id not kill me because he realized that I understood, and his rage subsided enough for him to control himself and lower his gun. I didn't surrender to the will of the universe. I surrendered to him and his judgement, as my penance for having done him wrong. There was no calm in me for days, I assure you.

What could be learned from this, perhaps, is not to fuck another man's wife. Or, if you don't want to "get it", surely it is possible to let it lead to improving your skills as a liar, cheater, etc.

He showed up at my doorstep not because I brought her to my house - I didn't. He showed up at my doorstep because she knew where I lived, and told him in her fit of guilt.

I have also been shot at with live ammunition, although that was by gang bangers who were breaking into a store I was acting as security for. That is also something you will never forget, and it also takes a lot of practice to learn to handle with less than terror, and again, I can almost guarantee you - you haven't had that kind of experience.

If after having a threat of imminent death presented to you, by gun, knife, bare hands or whatever, you are still doing what triggered it - you are either stupid, or you are too big and/or skilled to be smart.

Again, I agree. You can, however, learn how to avoid such things.

Learning to avoid such things is done by not doing things that lead to others wishing to do you violence. Like fucking their wives.

One of the experiences I speak of in my own life was in my construction job. I once helped a fellow worker unload some floor sheets to a second-story floor. Well, the floor beams weren't nailed down and they toppled and I broke through. When I saw that happen, I knew falling was imminent, and I knew I'd either survive or not. By a miracle that I attributed to God back then (I was religious in those days) but even now, can't describe it any other way than feeling a giant hand grab me and move me into position so that everything that was falling would build around me, I survived. Believe me when I say that had I not landed EXACTLY how I did, I would have died right then and there. 1500lbs of wood fell on top of me, and the floor beneath me broke almost completely through, holding together by a quarter inch or so of wood.

The point I'm making here is I learned to nail the floor down FIRST, and THEN unload things. That situation will never happen again. So too, I believe, in other areas of life.

And likewise, you will learn the hard way that it is wise to follow in my footsteps and leave married women to their husbands.

I am not proud to have done what I did, and I learned the hard way that you don't play with a married woman. I also know that what you do will come back to you. So one day if you play with married women, you can expect that if you ever get married, you will probably have to deal with paybacks. And that, as they say, is a bitch.

Don't think you'll ever get married? Never say never. The right female comes along and you fall deeply enough in love and you'll find that it's all you can do to stop from dragging her down the aisle. Especially if you have kids with her. Marriage is a way of stabilizing and protecting a family.

Learning from the mistakes of others is the highest form of wisdom. Don't make the mistakes I have made. You'll get a lot further in life that way.

I thank you for the insight, and again, like I said, I agree with most you are saying. I just have a slightly different outlook is all. For example: I believe that we are all "high value", just by being human beings. Who knows when someone will take up that perspective? If they take it up in the middle of a job, they might quit and become the next Gandhi, if in the middle of a marriage, they might have an affair. Either way, we all take our path in life eventually.

I believe that you want to see what you want to see in order to get what you want however it is easiest. And as with everyone else who has traveled that path, including myself, you will find that the further you tread from the wise way, the more pain you experience. For some of us it takes longer and more pain than for others. I wish you swift discovery. And I am sure I speak for a lot of men when I say, best to hope you never succeed in tagging one of my chosen females.