Shannon's Journal Discussion Volume 3

[Have at ye]

Yeah, most PUA aficionados have a background in marketing, as far as I can tell - especially those *selling* it.

I'm not saying these methods are not effective means of persuasion, but let me tell you - nobody likes being played or gamed, especially when they can see - plain as day - that they are being played or gamed. And attractive women, at least those who are not total morons, utter damage cases or very young and sheltered, can tell. They play this game all the time; you're trying to outgame them at what is, in essence, their behavioral survival mechanism.

I learned this, as per the usual, the hard way - as in, getting gamed until a point where I decided *no more*.

I now have a so called "bitch-shield", too, because of all that, lol.

EDIT

What I'd like to say is this - persuasion, when it's healthy and for the mutual benefit of both parties involved, is fine. Using persuasive tools to, in fact, CON someone, is not.

There is a very good book called 'Forbidden keys to Persuasion' from Blair Warren that spend the first chapter to eloquently convince you that essentially everyone spend their whole life influencing others.

So we agree on this. Persuasion isn't bad. Only the intent behind it can be.

The sooner you accept that truth, the better you will be. There is nothing bad in influencing others.

As you said, people will resist suggestions that they don't see as coming from them. This is bad persuasion.

A successful persuasion is the one where people think that it is their own idea.

True enough. I've read that book some ways back, I think (not in its entirety, but I remember the preface).

Besides, performing auric modulation through DMSI is an extremely powerful tool meant to influence.

Thing is, though, that you can effectively use persuasion tactics to in fact try and manipulate someone - it's when I'd call it a con. Basically, there's two ways to do this: read a person's fears, guilts and shame and then use it to have 'em act the way you want them to act; or - read a person's narcissistic needs, masked by their ego, and then play to those: they'll get conned and be happy about it, lol. Until they see they've been conned - but they'll never admit to it publicly; their ego will stop them.

The way I see it - if you're trying to persuade someone to do something that is not, in fact, a *win-win* for both parties, then what you're attempting is a confidence trick.

And I'll still maintain that it is not the most effective way of seduction: basically, when you feel you have to actively convince someone to have, say, sex with you, you're technically trying to *sell* them the idea of having sex with you. Then, if they somehow bought whatever you were trying to sell - and then it turns out that what you've been trying to sell them was, in fact, a lie ("unfair marketing practices" There's laws for that), well... they're going to feel conned. And disappointed.

EDIT

Just noticed your edit showing an example of what you meant - we're in agreement.