(07-12-2018, 08:15 AM)thor2014 Wrote:(07-12-2018, 07:46 AM)lano1106 Wrote:(07-12-2018, 07:33 AM)SargeMaximus Wrote: Most of you guys tried PUA and didn't get results and switched to the "natural" paradigm. I had the opposite experience. I had no success with the "natural" paradigm, and so I switched to the PUA one.
So, I don't blame you guys for believing what you do, but I do think you're being a bit closed minded.
I still don't get why you guys insist on creating 2 mutually exclusive options where it is either 'natural' vs PUA.
To me, those are 2 facets of the equation. There is:
who you are
what you do
Who you are is controlling your mindset, the overall frame when you interact with others.
your social skills (PUA) will make you say or do precise things based on the feedback the other is giving you.
Maybe we can argue which one is more important but in my mind both are important and play a role.
I am sorry to labour on at this but Sarge does not seem to understand what I am trying to say. Its fantastic that Sarge is consistently working on himself and I admire that.
My point is he thinks that learning one gimmick like push and pull got him laid. It might get a girl laughing but she has to see him as a lover and as higher value only then will she sleep with him.
Women sleep with men who are higher value then themselves. This has been a hard coded rule since the dawn of man. Nothing to do with push pull.
Another thing is PUA and game is no longer a secret. In fact just about every woman knows what it's all about. Hot women will never fall for these gimmicks as they have had this stuff run on them so many times. I have seen average looking guys thinking they have tight game run push and pull and girls have just rolled their eyes.
The only way of really becoming that masculine man who women just want to shag is to peel away the layers of negative beliefs we have evolved around ourselves as we have grown up. By learning gimmicks your just adding additional layers whilst DMSI is trying to peel away these layers of negative beliefs.
No idea why you call PUA gimmicks. As I said, we agree that techniques alone aren't most of the time sufficient to seduce but they are powerful influence principles that have been used throughout the history to build empires and cults followed by millions of people.
Probably congruence is essential. ie: The best PUA skills cannot succeed if you are someone that the girl doesn't want (but I am sure there exist exceptions to that generality...)
You also appear to have a negative perception of influence. As if it is a bad thing. Everyone is influencing all day long. When you push-pull a girl. This is not something bad you do on her. You create a seduction experience that she craves to have.
I am not sure to see the ethical difference between using a subliminal program to have sex vs using compliance strategies used successfully by compliance professionals (sellers, marketers, politicians, seducers) to reach the same goal.
In both cases, you do something to influence others to get what you want....
