12-19-2016, 07:45 PM
From DarthX's post, my responses are starred:
I thought I would open a thread about this topic since there's been a lot of discussion about it and I also wanted to put in my opinion about the Disney star wars movies as well. I will probably update this thread as more of the movies come out. I will first start with Episode 7. Quite honestly I really didn't like the movie. Sure it had some entertaining moments here and there but they were overshadowed by the fact that that there were a lot of problems with story and characters. Not to mention that there were times when the movie clearly contradicted some points made in the earlier movies. The few points of contention I have are:
+ Rey is clearly a "Mary Sue" type character. Evidence for this are:
- She out maneuvers 2 empire pilots while piloting a ship that she has never piloted before. Some people that I talked to tried to excuse this by saying she is a mechanic of sorts but there is a big gap between being a mechanic/scavenger and knowing how to actually pilot said machinery.
*** We have no clue what her background really is. She says she's a pilot, but the movie never explains where she got her skillz. That being said, most people don't care. It's a movie.
***Furthermore, because Luke in ANH flies a T-16 and a speeder, he knows how to pilot an X-Wing? Same problem.
- She literally fixes a problem with the millennium falcon that Han Solo, who has owned the ship for decades, can't figure out.
*** Han didn't even try. He was busy flying. He was merely impressed with her, simultaneously looking confused how she could possibly know how to do that. He knows there's something about her we don't know about...yet.
-She uses the Jedi mind trick even though she had no idea about it, except for maybe stories shes heard, and believed the "force" was just a myth 48 hours earlier.
***She thought Luke was myth. We don't know her background. She could have been Luke's daughter and trained for years,then had her memory wiped. All what-if's. I'm sure Rian Johnson will do an awesome job of filling plot holes, rendering points like this moot.
- She learns how to use a light-saber efficiently on her first time actually picking it up. This totally contradicts something Obi wan said in the 4th movie. He said that if you don't have training with a light-saber your just as most likely going to hurt yourself as any opponent.
*** I don't have a problem with HER using a saber. I have a problem with FINN using one. There's something about her we don't know, but he was just a damn stormtrooper.
- Despite this pertinent information she beats a more experienced force user. This is after he totally demolished her not 48 hours earlier. This totally goes against most of the star wars universe. In the star war universe training and experience is always emphasized no matter how big your "meta-chlorine" count is. Luke went to face Vader before he completed his training and got his hand cut off. Anakin faced off against Count Dooku, way more experienced, and got his hand cut off. Despite this I'm suppose to believe that Rey, who even if she did secretly have some training when she was younger but can't remember, can beat a more experienced force user who has about 20 years of Jedi/Sith training under his belt? ugh, give me a break.
***Something woke up in her, it was clear when she closed her eyes, something clicked. What, we don't know...yet.
- Final point on this, some people try to excuse the above by saying that Kylo ren was shot and that Rey had some experience with using the staff. This is totally stupid, just because i know how to use a staff doesn't mean I automatically know how to masterfully use a sword. They are 2 different weapons. As for the wounded thing, I use to be a really big star wars fan and read a lot of the books in the expanded universe until they killed off one of my favorite characters. Anyone who's read any of the books would know that simply wounding a Jedi/Sith doesn't mean they can't kick your @ss.
***Excusing her b/c Kylo was shot IS stupid. I say we don't know who she is, or where she came from. I feel when we do find out, all will fall into place.
+Overall I didn't like Fin's character that much. Was he funny to a degree? yes, but that wasn't enough to make up for the inconsistencies in his character.
- Hes been trained since birth to kill people yet he constantly gets his ass handed to him throughout the movie, whereas Rey with less experience rarely gets beat.
-Despite this training, which you think would toughen him up, he continually acts like a coward.
***The village was his first outing. He'd never done anything else before but train, and who knows what that's like. I forget where I read that. But yeah, I agree, he's the weakest character so far.
-When he finally finds his courage, what is it that finally prompts this? you guessed it, Rey getting kidnapped. He finds his courage because of a chick. I really get tired of this being used in movies. Why is it that a male character always has to change for the better because of a woman? Why can't he become more self developed because he actually wants to be a better person and become self actualized?
***Haha, but unfortunately, it usually happens that way. I doubt there are many women around and he acts like a noob. Sarge would understand (just breaking your balls, Sarge! not amogging, I swear!).
- The other inconsistency I noticed was how it was seeing some of his fellow storm troopers get shot during that battle that made him want to leave the first order but throughout the movie he has no problem shooting storm troopers himself.
*** No. It was killing all the "innocent villagers."
Overall the most important issue I had with episode 7 besides the feminist propaganda was the fact that it was nothing but a new hope 2.0. It felt like they ripped off a lot of the different things from episode 4. Say what you will about the prequels but at least in the prequels Lucas was trying to be creative and bring something new to the plate.
***And mostly failed miserably, unfortunately. Because of that failure, JJ and company felt they HAD to do this just to bring SW back around to a new baseline so the rest of the movies could springboard from there.
***BB-8 was new, and better than anything in the prequel trilogy, IMO.
I want to see creativity, not the same old thing except for done worse.
***I loved Kylo Ren. Not done worse at all. Once again, JMHO.
I do think I know why it turned out this way though. From a comment I read from someone else, apparently when they first announced episode 7 they actually had a script from George Lucas already made for the movie and had friend of Lucas being the primary worker on it. Disney decided to scrape the script and do a new one. So the script writer then started working on the new script and was starting to polish it up. Apparently, he was moving too slow for their taste, so they fired him and scraped that script. The only problem was that the movie was already going to start with photography for the sets within a month. So they actually ended up writing the script as they were filming the movie -_-'.
***Hm, I could have sworn that was Rogue One that was being filmed and written simultaneously...
Now for Rogue one, I haven't seen all the movie yet but I have seen most of it ( i work at a movie theater). From what I've seen its a huge improvement over episode 7. So, i'm happy about that but at the same time there could still be improvements. At least the characters are more balanced now, which is good. I was also surprised with how they actually killed off the characters.
***I wasn't surprised, and loved this.
Didn't know Disney had it in them to approve of something like that. Anyway, just wanted to get everyone else's opinion on these movies. Hopefully episode 8 will be better since "Jar Jar Abrams" won't be working on it.
***Rian Johnson is pretty awesome. Have you seen Looper?
I thought I would open a thread about this topic since there's been a lot of discussion about it and I also wanted to put in my opinion about the Disney star wars movies as well. I will probably update this thread as more of the movies come out. I will first start with Episode 7. Quite honestly I really didn't like the movie. Sure it had some entertaining moments here and there but they were overshadowed by the fact that that there were a lot of problems with story and characters. Not to mention that there were times when the movie clearly contradicted some points made in the earlier movies. The few points of contention I have are:
+ Rey is clearly a "Mary Sue" type character. Evidence for this are:
- She out maneuvers 2 empire pilots while piloting a ship that she has never piloted before. Some people that I talked to tried to excuse this by saying she is a mechanic of sorts but there is a big gap between being a mechanic/scavenger and knowing how to actually pilot said machinery.
*** We have no clue what her background really is. She says she's a pilot, but the movie never explains where she got her skillz. That being said, most people don't care. It's a movie.
***Furthermore, because Luke in ANH flies a T-16 and a speeder, he knows how to pilot an X-Wing? Same problem.
- She literally fixes a problem with the millennium falcon that Han Solo, who has owned the ship for decades, can't figure out.
*** Han didn't even try. He was busy flying. He was merely impressed with her, simultaneously looking confused how she could possibly know how to do that. He knows there's something about her we don't know about...yet.
-She uses the Jedi mind trick even though she had no idea about it, except for maybe stories shes heard, and believed the "force" was just a myth 48 hours earlier.
***She thought Luke was myth. We don't know her background. She could have been Luke's daughter and trained for years,then had her memory wiped. All what-if's. I'm sure Rian Johnson will do an awesome job of filling plot holes, rendering points like this moot.
- She learns how to use a light-saber efficiently on her first time actually picking it up. This totally contradicts something Obi wan said in the 4th movie. He said that if you don't have training with a light-saber your just as most likely going to hurt yourself as any opponent.
*** I don't have a problem with HER using a saber. I have a problem with FINN using one. There's something about her we don't know, but he was just a damn stormtrooper.
- Despite this pertinent information she beats a more experienced force user. This is after he totally demolished her not 48 hours earlier. This totally goes against most of the star wars universe. In the star war universe training and experience is always emphasized no matter how big your "meta-chlorine" count is. Luke went to face Vader before he completed his training and got his hand cut off. Anakin faced off against Count Dooku, way more experienced, and got his hand cut off. Despite this I'm suppose to believe that Rey, who even if she did secretly have some training when she was younger but can't remember, can beat a more experienced force user who has about 20 years of Jedi/Sith training under his belt? ugh, give me a break.
***Something woke up in her, it was clear when she closed her eyes, something clicked. What, we don't know...yet.
- Final point on this, some people try to excuse the above by saying that Kylo ren was shot and that Rey had some experience with using the staff. This is totally stupid, just because i know how to use a staff doesn't mean I automatically know how to masterfully use a sword. They are 2 different weapons. As for the wounded thing, I use to be a really big star wars fan and read a lot of the books in the expanded universe until they killed off one of my favorite characters. Anyone who's read any of the books would know that simply wounding a Jedi/Sith doesn't mean they can't kick your @ss.
***Excusing her b/c Kylo was shot IS stupid. I say we don't know who she is, or where she came from. I feel when we do find out, all will fall into place.
+Overall I didn't like Fin's character that much. Was he funny to a degree? yes, but that wasn't enough to make up for the inconsistencies in his character.
- Hes been trained since birth to kill people yet he constantly gets his ass handed to him throughout the movie, whereas Rey with less experience rarely gets beat.
-Despite this training, which you think would toughen him up, he continually acts like a coward.
***The village was his first outing. He'd never done anything else before but train, and who knows what that's like. I forget where I read that. But yeah, I agree, he's the weakest character so far.
-When he finally finds his courage, what is it that finally prompts this? you guessed it, Rey getting kidnapped. He finds his courage because of a chick. I really get tired of this being used in movies. Why is it that a male character always has to change for the better because of a woman? Why can't he become more self developed because he actually wants to be a better person and become self actualized?
***Haha, but unfortunately, it usually happens that way. I doubt there are many women around and he acts like a noob. Sarge would understand (just breaking your balls, Sarge! not amogging, I swear!).
- The other inconsistency I noticed was how it was seeing some of his fellow storm troopers get shot during that battle that made him want to leave the first order but throughout the movie he has no problem shooting storm troopers himself.
*** No. It was killing all the "innocent villagers."
Overall the most important issue I had with episode 7 besides the feminist propaganda was the fact that it was nothing but a new hope 2.0. It felt like they ripped off a lot of the different things from episode 4. Say what you will about the prequels but at least in the prequels Lucas was trying to be creative and bring something new to the plate.
***And mostly failed miserably, unfortunately. Because of that failure, JJ and company felt they HAD to do this just to bring SW back around to a new baseline so the rest of the movies could springboard from there.
***BB-8 was new, and better than anything in the prequel trilogy, IMO.
I want to see creativity, not the same old thing except for done worse.
***I loved Kylo Ren. Not done worse at all. Once again, JMHO.
I do think I know why it turned out this way though. From a comment I read from someone else, apparently when they first announced episode 7 they actually had a script from George Lucas already made for the movie and had friend of Lucas being the primary worker on it. Disney decided to scrape the script and do a new one. So the script writer then started working on the new script and was starting to polish it up. Apparently, he was moving too slow for their taste, so they fired him and scraped that script. The only problem was that the movie was already going to start with photography for the sets within a month. So they actually ended up writing the script as they were filming the movie -_-'.
***Hm, I could have sworn that was Rogue One that was being filmed and written simultaneously...
Now for Rogue one, I haven't seen all the movie yet but I have seen most of it ( i work at a movie theater). From what I've seen its a huge improvement over episode 7. So, i'm happy about that but at the same time there could still be improvements. At least the characters are more balanced now, which is good. I was also surprised with how they actually killed off the characters.
***I wasn't surprised, and loved this.
Didn't know Disney had it in them to approve of something like that. Anyway, just wanted to get everyone else's opinion on these movies. Hopefully episode 8 will be better since "Jar Jar Abrams" won't be working on it.
***Rian Johnson is pretty awesome. Have you seen Looper?
