Shannon's Journal Discussion

[AlphaRomeo]

^^^I agree about the strength of perfumes. I love strong, lasting fragrance that I have to spray only once or twice and it will carry the whole day. Heck, I would love nice smelling perfume that last at least longer than it takes to say "Smells so good..." I freaking hate it when just about all the perfumes on the market vanishes to non existence the minute you spray them on. I have to admit that I have not studied perfumery much so maybe there are reasons for that. Like big companies selling perfumes that does not last so you have to buy new one like every other week or something? Or is it just that the chemistry of perfumes are such?

USP: "Our sexy fragrance lasts longer than you do" or something lol.
I mean what´s the deal with perfumery...are majority of people so sensitive to smells that they prefer fragrances that smells like air, and if they feel really bold at any particular moment they will wear the "Wind" perfume. And "Water" for those hot summer night outs...? I would not even mind to spray a lot if it if one or two sprays is not enough...I just want it to be freaking strong and LAST (at least as long as I do).

Oh well...let´s see what Shannon has in his reserve if/when he starts to ship internationally...

[Shannon]

Allow me to share with you some things I have learned about why a perfume does or does not last.

You may be surprised to hear this, but not all of it has to do with concentration. It must be designed properly from the ground up to last. That is why most perfumes include musk - an excellent fixative (extender) and scent in itself, in addition to a variety of other scent components and specialized chemistry to help out with that.

Scents can consist of three classes of components, which are usually known as top (or head), middle (or heart) and base notes. These classifications define how long a component lasts before evaporating fully. Top notes have the smallest molecular structure, and so they fade fastest, but because they are so easily evaporative, they are what you typically smell first. It is common for colognes and perfumes to be designed in such a way that the top sells it, and the rest is an afterthought by comparison. I don't like that. Top notes are usually faded in 5 to 45 minutes.

The middle notes usually emerge to the nose after the top notes fade, and they form the main idea or theme of the scent. They usually last around 1-3 hours.

The base notes are the ones upon which everything else is built, and they become most prominent after the heart notes fade. The base may last between 4 and 36 hours depending on what it consists of.

The base is like an anchor for the scent, making the whole thing last longer; the heart can also help preserve the top. If you formulate a scent without a heart or base, it will require frequent re-application. The original Eau de Cologne are like this. They consist of about 90% top and 10% middle notes, with little to no base at all. It is said that Napoleon Bonaparte consumed (practically bathed in) the original Eau de Cologne, at a rate of more than a liter a day. I believe back then it was used as a tonic, mouth wash and scent, but still, you get my drift. 4711 is still made in this tradition, and dates from this period. It is not very long lasting, and so must be cheap and plentiful.

Making something more concentrated can help increase it's lifespan, but it quickly causes problems in other directions to rely on this alone. The other day, for instance, I attempted to make a cologne for myself consisting of only citrus oils and I made it at a 50% concentration. I also gave away that bottle within a half an hour, because it was way too strong; I actually had an allergic reaction to it at that strength, when at a more reasonable 10% or less concentration, I never do.

Yes, it lasted about 2 hours. Yes, it was also way too strong, and yes, I had an allergic reaction based on the amount of citric acid present. Increasing concentration is not the solution. The solution is to craft the scent in such a way that the whole thing is self fixing; I should have used 10% concentration, and added some top note fixative, musk, and perhaps a citrus-like synthetic that lasts longer, or used some synthetic citrus scents.

The main reason majestic Night lasts so long is not that it's just very concentrated, it's also that it consists almost entirely of base notes, with some middle notes. It has no top. It's woodsy, smoky, sexy, dark, masculine, sweet and mysterious, and that's what I was going for. Not the faint flower petals that disappear instantly that they call men's scents these days. Majestic Night has a very special (and very expensive!) base that lasts for a very, VERY long time. The scent goes from what I described to smelling, as one of my female friends put it, "like your own skin, only sexier" over time. It's never in your face, but it does last. And because of how it's crafted, cutting the strength in half (for instance) should not have a huge impact on how it lasts. But it would have an impact on making the scent more affordable to produce and making it easier to wear during the first 45 minutes.

That said, I routinely have women tell me how amazing I smell and such while I am wearing it. Today I had one tell me, "You smell like a MAN!" Which is what I was going for. Andrew is of the opinion that it is a unisex scent, and that certain types of woman could wear it also; he cited gypsies. I don't know any gypsies, but I suppose I can see a certain sensuality to it that could be worn by the right kind of woman, who was similarly sensual in nature. I would say it's 85% masculine, though.

As for why the stuff you buy these days does not last, that comes down to a few things. The first is, did they craft it properly? These days, most colognes and perfumes are produced so quickly that they are not well crafted. There are thousands of scents on the market, and to compete, they've created a sort of arms race to make more, more, more! Quality drops as a result.

Another huge culprit (IMHO) is the IRFA - International Regulatory Fragrance Association. Basically, this is the companies who create synthetic perfumery components, and they seem to have found a way to make business for themselves by blowing the allergy issue way out of hand. I understand that there is also the concern for other health issues, but they don't seem very concerned with those; they produce 3-5 new perfumery components each year, and before they know anything about them, start selling them. Meanwhile they IRFA (these same companies) are banning or limiting things like farnesol - the key to what makes magnolia flowers smell so good. Really?

Seems a bit suspicious to me.

Anyway, the problem is that and the fact that it's big business doing this. It's not enough to produce one scent a year and really make it amazing; they have to drop a dozen or more to keep the arms race and the profits going. The inevitable result is a sea of crap with a few gems floating about here and there.

I'm not worried about making shareholders happy, and I never will be. To me that's a very foolish way to do business. I'm concerned with making good products. So if I only produce one a year, you guys will have to deal with it. But somehow, I don't think you'll mind, if the scent is exceptional.

[AlphaRomeo]

^^^
Wow. Thank you very much Shannon for such a comprehensive post, very eye opening and much appreciated. I agree about having only one perfume a year if it´s exceptional. Would end the frustration on this area...like you said, market is sea of crap with few gems floating here and there...and not only that,the problem has always been that when I finally managed to find one they soon stop producing it usually because it is either too expensive for general market or too "exotic" to be popular enough for the business.

The main reason majestic Night lasts so long is not that it's just very concentrated, it's also that it consists almost entirely of base notes, with some middle notes. It has no top. It's woodsy, smoky, sexy, dark, masculine, sweet and mysterious, and that's what I was going for. Not the faint flower petals that disappear instantly that they call men's scents these days. Majestic Night has a very special (and very expensive!) base that lasts for a very, VERY long time.

That said, I routinely have women tell me how amazing I smell and such while I am wearing it. Today I had one tell me, "You smell like a MAN!" Which is what I was going for. Andrew is of the opinion that it is a unisex scent, and that certain types of woman could wear it also; he cited gypsies. I don't know any gypsies, but I suppose I can see a certain sensuality to it that could be worn by the right kind of woman, who was similarly sensual in nature. I would say it's 85% masculine, though.

^^^^
Now THAT´s what I am after and I really don´t mind spending premium for that. woodsy, smoky, sexy, dark, masculine, sweet and mysterious <- oh man...SHIP IT!
"I don't know any gypsies, but I suppose I can see a certain sensuality to it that could be worn by the right kind of woman, who was similarly sensual in nature. I would say it's 85% masculine, though." <- this combined with what it contains,and the name, I can almost already smell it while my intuition screams "This is the one you have been looking for!"

[dissonance]

So, what is Shannon's next project after BE7, and/or figuring out 6g?

[Superman]

I think it's Eprha 2.0

[dissonance]

ah bummer, not WM2? I'd expect it'd be WM2 since it seems so many people decide to do SM3 just because they think WM2 is outdated.

[Shannon]

My next project depends on what makes the most sense when I'm finished. EHPRA 2.0 should be finished during the production of BE7.

[Shannon]

^^^
Wow. Thank you very much Shannon for such a comprehensive post, very eye opening and much appreciated. I agree about having only one perfume a year if it´s exceptional. Would end the frustration on this area...like you said, market is sea of crap with few gems floating here and there...and not only that,the problem has always been that when I finally managed to find one they soon stop producing it usually because it is either too expensive for general market or too "exotic" to be popular enough for the business.

The main reason majestic Night lasts so long is not that it's just very concentrated, it's also that it consists almost entirely of base notes, with some middle notes. It has no top. It's woodsy, smoky, sexy, dark, masculine, sweet and mysterious, and that's what I was going for. Not the faint flower petals that disappear instantly that they call men's scents these days. Majestic Night has a very special (and very expensive!) base that lasts for a very, VERY long time.

That said, I routinely have women tell me how amazing I smell and such while I am wearing it. Today I had one tell me, "You smell like a MAN!" Which is what I was going for. Andrew is of the opinion that it is a unisex scent, and that certain types of woman could wear it also; he cited gypsies. I don't know any gypsies, but I suppose I can see a certain sensuality to it that could be worn by the right kind of woman, who was similarly sensual in nature. I would say it's 85% masculine, though.

^^^^
Now THAT´s what I am after and I really don´t mind spending premium for that. woodsy, smoky, sexy, dark, masculine, sweet and mysterious <- oh man...SHIP IT!
"I don't know any gypsies, but I suppose I can see a certain sensuality to it that could be worn by the right kind of woman, who was similarly sensual in nature. I would say it's 85% masculine, though." <- this combined with what it contains,and the name, I can almost already smell it while my intuition screams "This is the one you have been looking for!"

You have to smell it. You have to see how it works with your unique chemistry. You need to know whether or not it pleases your nose, and the noses of those you wish to smell good to. I have attempted to design it to be relatively unaffected by skin chemistry differences, but that is ultimately impossible to do perfectly. So I'm considering making a small release in the future, but this will depend heavily on Andrew's help.

Majestic Night is likely to be very expensive for a bottle of full strength, and even more expensive for a bottle of the aphrodisiac version. That said, a bottle of either will last a while. In my tests with water, the 50 mL bottles I am currently using give me about 440 sprays. Since it's entirely reasonable for younger guys to wear 1 spray a day, and older guys to wear 1-2, it's still a great value.

We're working on it. Perhaps we'll also offer it in 5 mL sprayers, too. I'm in the process of testing some of those for quality and usability.

[waahbeta]

Those who want long lasting effect can try attar/ittar if it's available in ur country. There are hundreds of fragrances in it.
You can apply it on your clothes as well as body.

[Geodude]

Shannon, if you're still upgrading 3G to 4G, I would love to see Overcome Anxiety upgraded.

[heavysm]

Shannon's last post about BASE 2.1 has thrown me for a loop. There was an error in the 2.0 script?? Where was this mentioned? I'm almost on stage 3 lol

[JackOfHearts]

Shannon's last post about BASE 2.1 has thrown me for a loop. There was an error in the 2.0 script?? Where was this mentioned? I'm almost on stage 3 lol

I guess it will work anyway, relax it is certainly something that won't affect the program, maybe 1% effectiveness. He would have warned the users otherwise. Maybe he made a mistake and he was talking about the breast program.

[apollolux]

Warm cinnamon rolls. Love it.

Shannon, even if you only reached the amaretto smell of Stella D'Oro Breakfast Treats it already sounds like something I would love to wear just so I can smell sweet sweet pastry for hours on end. ^___^

[Shannon]

Shannon's last post about BASE 2.1 has thrown me for a loop. There was an error in the 2.0 script?? Where was this mentioned? I'm almost on stage 3 lol

I guess it will work anyway, relax it is certainly something that won't affect the program, maybe 1% effectiveness. He would have warned the users otherwise. Maybe he made a mistake and he was talking about the breast program.

There's nothing to worry about. The error in the script leaves out the subject of the statement; if the specifics of the rest of the adjusters were not what they are, the grammar would cause the subconscious to either ignore the statement entirely because it made no sense, or it would imply that you should use others to get what you want. However, because of the modifiers I use in the full statement, it makes no sense at all grammatically, and is therefore simply ignored. And no, it's not breast enlargement; it's BASE. Believe me, I would have called for a full stop if there was any danger, while I created a replacement and a fix-it program for any unwanted programming effects. But there is nothing to worry about. It is effectively a nonsense statement the way it was worded, and is just being ignored.