Shannon's Journal Discussion Thread, Vol. 8

[GreekGod22]

You are one who advocates for men to deny their own humanity then.  What you're not understanding is that what you advocate is destructive to men, no matter how strong they are.  And if you cannot show your human-ness and vulnerabilities and weaknesses to your wife then you have chosen the wrong woman to be your wife.

The fact is that humans, male and female, have strengths and weaknesses.  The developed man is strong enough to be able to accept that fact, and knows when and how to express his weakness and vulnerability, but he also understands that denying himself that acceptance and expression is not healthy to do all the time.

So a man should be aware that expressing vulnerability and or weakness isn't to be done casually or freely, but it is also not to be prevented at all costs.  You must find a balance that keeps you in your masculine center and strength, as well as which allows you to be human without self destructing trying to be inhuman.

During my relationship with my ex-girlfriend, I shared something that was very vulnerable, I opened up to her fully for a moment. It was something that made me feel less of a man and was clearly affecting the relationship. Not even 1 month later, she broke up with me and had sex with the guy who was waiting in line to get with her. Coincidence? I think not. The relationship was not going great, but sharing that vulnerability probably made her feel like I am less of a man, and she mentally checked out of the relationship.

This crushed me.
She was always the one who told me I should open up more to her, with my struggles, with what's going through my head. And when I did, look what happened. Probably the biggest heartbreak of my life.

[Darkness]

Greek god you have point, I think it’s better to err on the side of showing almost no vulnerabilities.

The more human, the weaker you will seem to appear & every time you lose some semblance respect unconsciously, sadly!

No matter how much she loves you, it’ll never be sympathy. It’ll be if she can look up to you or down on you.

[Johannesbrst]

You are one who advocates for men to deny their own humanity then.  What you're not understanding is that what you advocate is destructive to men, no matter how strong they are.  And if you cannot show your human-ness and vulnerabilities and weaknesses to your wife then you have chosen the wrong woman to be your wife.

The fact is that humans, male and female, have strengths and weaknesses.  The developed man is strong enough to be able to accept that fact, and knows when and how to express his weakness and vulnerability, but he also understands that denying himself that acceptance and expression is not healthy to do all the time.

So a man should be aware that expressing vulnerability and or weakness isn't to be done casually or freely, but it is also not to be prevented at all costs.  You must find a balance that keeps you in your masculine center and strength, as well as which allows you to be human without self destructing trying to be inhuman.

During my relationship with my ex-girlfriend, I shared something that was very vulnerable, I opened up to her fully for a moment. It was something that made me feel less of a man and was clearly affecting the relationship. Not even 1 month later, she broke up with me and had sex with the guy who was waiting in line to get with her. Coincidence? I think not. The relationship was not going great, but sharing that vulnerability probably made her feel like I am less of a man, and she mentally checked out of the relationship.

This crushed me.
She was always the one who told me I should open up more to her, with my struggles, with what's going through my head. And when I did, look what happened. Probably the biggest heartbreak of my life.

Sorry to hear about your experience. An emotionally mature woman can appreciate a man who opens up and support him in that, and appreciate the maturity and courage it takes to open up from time to time. 

As Shannon say, it shouldn't be done in excess as one should be able to work on their own issues, but opening up is both needed for us as humans to our nearest partner, and can actually strengthen our relationships and help us grow closer with our partners.

But it shouldn't be done just to satisfy the needs of the partner. It should be done when one find it needed, based on your own assessment of the situation. You need to trust your own compass and not let your woman tell you when to be vulnerable or not. I believe you would find it valuable to read "The superior man" that I recommended to Shannon above, as it talks about this.

[Topaz]

I agree with Shannon on this
Vulnerability makes you human

Showing your vulnerability After gaining the respect is actually a high value male quality to have

That being said, there are some doors you don't need to open with women if you know what I mean

[Frosted]

I think it’s a combination of factors. Obviously it’s not black and white. The partner you’re with, the specific things you’re being vulnerable with, how much they like you and what they like about you, how committed you both are for the long hall and how mature you both are, how you present the issue.

Some women, maybe even most women, you can’t really be that vulnerable with. I think this is due to a lack of developement and the results of a fucked up system that messes people up. But I think if you’re coming from the right place and you’ve got the right woman then you should be good.

Women want men to be vulnerable, it’s in their romance novels! But that doesn’t mean you should start crying in front of her all the time or something lol. They don’t want a man-child, they want a hunk who has human flaws and who they can connect with on a real level.

If I couldn’t be vulnerable with my partner at all then I would just opt for no long term relationship and only mess around with women my whole life, because without vulnerability there can be no true intimacy.

Disclaimer: haven’t directly tested this stuff, just from my understanding of things. But I’m pretty sure I’m right.

[Shannon]

@Shannon 

On the product page of SD 5.11 the volume for other phones seems to be wrong:

For users of Android phones with 15 total possible clicks of volume, play it at a volume of 8 out of 15 clicks.
For iPhone users, who have a total of 16 possible clicks of volume to work with, use it at a volume of 9 out of 16 clicks.
For Google phone users who have a total of 30 possible clicks of volume to work with, use it at a volume of 16 out of 30 clicks.
For those who have any other kind of phone, or a phone with any other number of clicks of volume, play it as close to 31% of maximum volume as you can get it.

It should be 51% if I am not mistaken.

Cheers

Thanks, that's got to be a typo because I remember calculating it with a calculator to be sure. 

[Shannon]

The issue with AM6 making you feel like you are playing a part is down to it being built in 5G, which is not powerful enough to get past some people's resistance to actually making the necessary changes.  In fact, that is exactly why I started developing 6G.  Maverick is built in 5.9G, and thus is benefiting from a lot of design changes and a huge step up in power and impact towards getting the script executed.

Could be, but if you allow, I have another interpretation of my experience. What I believe happened is that the part of my consciousness that AM was trying to "awaken" was simply blocked, and very much so was resisting. However, to comply with the script, another part of my consciousness tried to execute the script. This made the experience feel "emulated" rather than "integrated". 

That's basically a more in-depth explanation of one possible specific of what I was talking about.

I've since then worked a lot on myself and noticed how many issues I have uncovered in my "lower" parts of my consciousness. If you are familiar with the chakra system, it has been the lower chakras that has been blocked and I needed a much gentler and slow approach to unblock these parts of myself. This led to the program being executed on a "higher" level, more grounded in thought, than in emotion and body, thus the feelings of dissociation and disconnectedness that both me and the other poster felt.

Perhaps 6G could take care of that, but from the previous post about the program being a "drill-sergeant", that could perhaps trigger the same reaction in other users, that are you the best to assess. 

Would also be interested to hear your input on the other parts of my post regarding the movements in society as well as my ideas regarding integrating a more conscious aspect of masculinity in the masculinity/AM programs.

AM v7 is going to be stronger than almost any resistance.  But ultimately it shouldn't need to rely on strength or force to get the job done.  If that was how I wanted to get things done, I wouldn't be on my 12th year developing 6G from 5G, to be sure.

[HD87]

Hi @Shannon does self development have anything in there to improve social anxiety, or being too self conscious, and overcome the fear of being judged by others or "what others will think about them" and seeing oneself as being inferior to others?

[Shannon]

You are one who advocates for men to deny their own humanity then.  What you're not understanding is that what you advocate is destructive to men, no matter how strong they are.  And if you cannot show your human-ness and vulnerabilities and weaknesses to your wife then you have chosen the wrong woman to be your wife.



The fact is that humans, male and female, have strengths and weaknesses.  The developed man is strong enough to be able to accept that fact, and knows when and how to express his weakness and vulnerability, but he also understands that denying himself that acceptance and expression is not healthy to do all the time.



So a man should be aware that expressing vulnerability and or weakness isn't to be done casually or freely, but it is also not to be prevented at all costs.  You must find a balance that keeps you in your masculine center and strength, as well as which allows you to be human without self destructing trying to be inhuman.

During my relationship with my ex-girlfriend, I shared something that was very vulnerable, I opened up to her fully for a moment. It was something that made me feel less of a man and was clearly affecting the relationship. Not even 1 month later, she broke up with me and had sex with the guy who was waiting in line to get with her. Coincidence? I think not. The relationship was not going great, but sharing that vulnerability probably made her feel like I am less of a man, and she mentally checked out of the relationship.



This crushed me.

She was always the one who told me I should open up more to her, with my struggles, with what's going through my head. And when I did, look what happened. Probably the biggest heartbreak of my life.

So you are basing your philosophy of masculinity on one woman's response and how much it hurt you.  N=1 is meaningless, my friend.  You just got a lesson in what the wrong woman acts like, not how you should treat yourself as a man.  A woman worth a damn is going to be trying to connect with you emotionally, and she's going to want and need to see that humanity under the shell to really feel and be connected with you.  Such a woman, too, does not want you acting like a wimp or crying all the time, but it will be very important to her that you share your vulnerability with her.  I'll give you some examples.

My current girlfriend and I are very deeply and closely bonded.  She has seen me at my weakest, and at my worst, and she stood beside me even when it was enough to make her scream in frustration.  At my weakest, I had the whole world falling down on me.  My uncle died, my uncle's wife was constantly asking me for help it turned out she didn't really need, and I was somehow being made responsible for her and her son, and I had my own emotions to deal with, while I was also trying to run this business and handle my girlfriend's stresses over the situation.  It was an extremely bad situation and it lasted - and got progressively worse - for months.  At the end I just lost it, and on top of smashing a few things I had a nice cathartic cry. 

My girlfriend stood by me through all this, and herself became upset with my uncle's wife over what she did, and then had to deal with my stress and anger and frustration.  She and I are extremely linked empathically, and if one of us gets upset the other starts experiencing that emotion involuntarily.  It can be bad unless one of us leaves the area or we use a shielding subliminal.

But she stood by me through it all, because she genuinely loves me and she genuinely cares about me.  She knows that I and I alone can handle her at her worst and stay standing.  She values me, and she values the incredible trust we have developed between us over the years.  She would sooner die than be unfaithful to me.  I have a good woman.  She understands that I am human, and I have emotions, and I need to express my emotions sometimes, even though I am the head of the household and the breadwinner and the leader in our relationship.  She values my vulnerability, but she also needs me to be the strong man I am, because she does not have strength in the same ways or directions that I do.  As she should be, she is my balance, and she balances my weaknesses with her strengths and I balance her weaknesses with my strengths.  Together, as a team, we become more than the sum of the parts of our individual selves.

But it takes a good woman for this to work.  A mature woman, and an intelligent woman who has reasonable expectations of her man and her relationship.  She understands that by expressing my vulnerability to her I am showing her trust, and she values both.  By being vulnerable to one another, we bond more deeply.  By going through these times of hardship and adversity, we strengthen our bond and our relationship. 

Females who are the maturity equivalent of little girls don't understand these sorts of things.  Immature females, especially those raised by and addicted to social media and are only interested in what they can get out of a situation or a man.  These females are always looking for the Bigger, Better Deal.  We call them BBD girls.  For them, no man is good enough, because there is always someone better just over the next hill.  Someone taller, more buff, more wealthy, more powerful, whatever.  (And because the idiots they blindly follow and let think for them on social media told them so.) They cannot understand the value of a man, never mind a good man, and even less a real man of value.  They become angry bitter cat ladies later in life, blaming men for their own stupid choices when they should have been choosing a suitable long term relationship but instead were throwing their legs apart for tens or hundreds of guys because they thought they had all the time in the world to be stupid and there were no consequences for their actions.  (And social media idiots told them it was the trendy thing to do.)  There are always consequences.

You just need to find a GOOD woman.  And the secret to that is going to be either knowing where to look, or manifesting one. 

But denying yourself your own humanity because someone might hurt you shows weakness, not strength.  In my strength, I can express my vulnerability - as I have done above by sharing those trying times with you - and it doesn't matter to me what other people think.  No matter what I do, there will ALWAYS be someone who loves me for it, someone who hates me for it, and most people just won't give a rat's ass.  I'm not going around simping or having my girlfriend be mommy or any shit like that - but she gets access to my vulnerabilities, just like I get access to hers.  She understands that a serious, meaningful relationship relies on opening up to each other and balancing one person's weaknesses with the other person's strengths.  When and where she is weak, I fill in.  When and where I am weak, she fills in. And in doing so, we form a relationship that is greater than the individuals who make up that relationship.  We make it through hardships that we as individuals could not make it through otherwise.

This is why the relationship is more important than the individual when you get into a serious long term relationship.  This is why men who are in a real, happy marriage with a woman who is worth keeping - marriages that really make it for the long haul - those men don't focus on the player and trying to act alpha in their relationships.  It has to be a balance.  Neither one is better than the other, or more perfect.  They both have their strengths and weaknesses and they blend those together to form a more perfect whole.

There is nothing like having a woman you can trust completely.  It's unlike anything else you ever had before.  Every day I marvel at how happy it makes me to have that.  But it wasn't until I outgrew what my mother had tried to make me (a scared little boy who needed mommy) and became a man that I stopped choosing the wrong women, and it wasn't until I had the courage to manifest what I really wanted that I found the right woman.  I'm not saying that every man has to overcome what I did to choose the right women, but in a lot of cases I am seeing these guys these days get hurt and decide to self destruct by denying heir own human-ness and emotional health in an effort to hide from getting hurt again. 

You are going to get hurt in life.  That's just the way life works.  And you move forward and learn what you can learn from it, which will naturally develop you into a stronger, more resilient man.  Stoicism is the result of the harsh reality of the ancient times when it was birthed, because those men had such hard times.  Vastly more difficult than we have today.  But denying your validity as a human, as an emotional being, is how you get stuffed in a box labeled "what society thinks men should be".  It isn't healthy for any human to deny their humanity, or their emotional needs.  EDIT: Just to be clear, I mostly agree with, and embrace, stoicism as a good path for men.  But it is based on experiences of men who had conditions much different, and much worse, than we have today in most cases.

And again, at the same time, it isn't healthy to be reliant on others for fulfilling your personal needs.  Mom, dad, wife, girlfriend, anyone.  That's not being a leader, or a mature man who takes care of himself and his business.  You step up and take care of yourself and your business and you fulfill your own needs.  Then you naturally attract women who are the feminine compliment to your masculine expression, who admire that about you and wants to be with you for the right reasons, and are worth keeping, trusting, making a life and a family with.  Because once you can take care of and fulfill your own needs, you're in a position of natural masculine strength to take care of a wife when she needs you, and have and support and raise kids properly.  Your vibe attracts your tribe, as they say.

[Shannon]

Greek god you have point, I think it’s better to err on the side of showing almost no vulnerabilities.

The more human, the weaker you will seem to appear & every time you lose some semblance respect unconsciously, sadly!

No matter how much she loves you, it’ll never be sympathy. It’ll be if she can look up to you or down on you.

Sad outcome from this set of beliefs.

[Shannon]

I think it’s a combination of factors. Obviously it’s not black and white. The partner you’re with, the specific things you’re being vulnerable with, how much they like you and what they like about you, how committed you both are for the long hall and how mature you both are, how you present the issue.

Some women, maybe even most women, you can’t really be that vulnerable with. I think this is due to a lack of developement and the results of a fucked up system that messes people up. But I think if you’re coming from the right place and you’ve got the right woman then you should be good.

Women want men to be vulnerable, it’s in their romance novels! But that doesn’t mean you should start crying in front of her all the time or something lol. They don’t want a man-child, they want a hunk who has human flaws and who they can connect with on a real level.

If I couldn’t be vulnerable with my partner at all then I would just opt for no long term relationship and only mess around with women my whole life, because without vulnerability there can be no true intimacy.

Disclaimer: haven’t directly tested this stuff, just from my understanding of things. But I’m pretty sure I’m right.

This is a pretty good assessment, IMO.  It doesn't matter what's in a woman's romance novels, those are fantasies, and they don't translate to real life well.  Just like men's fantasies don't.  But the whole point of a relationship is to connect.  Not to have arm candy you periodically inseminate.

[Shannon]

Hi @Shannon does self development have anything in there to improve social anxiety, or being too self conscious, and overcome the fear of being judged by others or "what others will think about them" and seeing oneself as being inferior to others?

Not directly.  But the effect of the whole of the program should be good for that.  If you want that handled directly, you probably want OGSF.

[Frosted]

I think it’s a combination of factors. Obviously it’s not black and white. The partner you’re with, the specific things you’re being vulnerable with, how much they like you and what they like about you, how committed you both are for the long hall and how mature you both are, how you present the issue.

Some women, maybe even most women, you can’t really be that vulnerable with. I think this is due to a lack of developement and the results of a fucked up system that messes people up. But I think if you’re coming from the right place and you’ve got the right woman then you should be good.

Women want men to be vulnerable, it’s in their romance novels! But that doesn’t mean you should start crying in front of her all the time or something lol. They don’t want a man-child, they want a hunk who has human flaws and who they can connect with on a real level.

If I couldn’t be vulnerable with my partner at all then I would just opt for no long term relationship and only mess around with women my whole life, because without vulnerability there can be no true intimacy.

Disclaimer: haven’t directly tested this stuff, just from my understanding of things. But I’m pretty sure I’m right.

This is a pretty good assessment, IMO.  It doesn't matter what's in a woman's romance novels, those are fantasies, and they don't translate to real life well.  Just like men's fantasies don't.  But the whole point of a relationship is to connect.  Not to have arm candy you periodically inseminate.

True enough. I suppose I was trying to find a more objective example to show Greek and Darkness, even if it wasn’t perfect.

I liked your post above talking about your relationship. It confirmed some things I was thinking and has given me more hope and clarity. 

I’ve followed Owen Cook for awhile, and I believe he’s still one of, if not the best, in the dating industry. I was starting to branch off from his teachings though because I’ve been thinking even though he’s been testing his theories in the “field” for 20 years he still has his biases and worldview that is influencing him. 

The way I understand how he approaches relationships is to “never fall off”. He focuses on dating hot women and accepting that most women, when push comes to shove, will have an RAS (reticular activation system) flip and start to view all the negative qualities in you instead of the positive they had been focusing on before. He does seem to value intimacy but from my understanding it only goes to a mid level and if it goes further he gets burned eventually.

I was thinking that a lot of the stuff he teaches is true, but ultimately I was thinking it’s definitely possible to find someone I can have deep intimacy with. But I also understand that I would have to become a better version of myself to be able to have it and be worthy of the quality of woman who could give it to me and that I would desire. But I had more uncertainty because I didn’t really have any role models or examples until now.

[Johannesbrst]

This is a pretty good assessment, IMO.  It doesn't matter what's in a woman's romance novels, those are fantasies, and they don't translate to real life well.  Just like men's fantasies don't.  But the whole point of a relationship is to connect.  Not to have arm candy you periodically inseminate.

True enough. I suppose I was trying to find a more objective example to show Greek and Darkness, even if it wasn’t perfect.

I liked your post above talking about your relationship. It confirmed some things I was thinking and has given me more hope and clarity. 

I’ve followed Owen Cook for awhile, and I believe he’s still one of, if not the best, in the dating industry. I was starting to branch off from his teachings though because I’ve been thinking even though he’s been testing his theories in the “field” for 20 years he still has his biases and worldview that is influencing him. 

The way I understand how he approaches relationships is to “never fall off”. He focuses on dating hot women and accepting that most women, when push comes to shove, will have an RAS (reticular activation system) flip and start to view all the negative qualities in you instead of the positive they had been focusing on before. He does seem to value intimacy but from my understanding it only goes to a mid level and if it goes further he gets burned eventually.

I was thinking that a lot of the stuff he teaches is true, but ultimately I was thinking it’s definitely possible to find someone I can have deep intimacy with. But I also understand that I would have to become a better version of myself to be able to have it and be worthy of the quality of woman who could give it to me and that I would desire. But I had more uncertainty because I didn’t really have any role models or examples until now.

Remember that you are already worthy of being loved.