Shannon's Journal Discussion Volume 3

[lano1106]

On the other hand Shannon (this is my second cent), I do believe DMSI still needs fixing. I've been in bed with a HOT 8.5/10 woman and brought her to 3 orgasms with squirting all over her sheets and she went 180 on me and said "I don't see you that way" when I wanted to penetrate. Like, bro, that is some SERIOUSLY f*cked up shit, and something that should never happen in a million years on DMSI.

I'm curious about this experience. When did the girl told you that she don't see you that way? Was it immediately after the 3 orgasms or some time later?

See, if you didn't penetrated her right after giving her the orgasms when she was naked in your bed, she may have been disappointed and may have become confused as most men would have ravished her right there and then.

If she said that immediately after you gave her 3 orgasms. Well, I see 2 possibilities. There is something called calibration. It is useful in social interaction but also in sexual interaction. It is the action of being aware of how the other is feeling and adjust accordingly. Let's say that you were absorbed into what you were doing to her and not paying too much attention to her, that may explain why she did tried to leave in the middle of the session with any silly excuse. IMHO, simply asking her what is going on and addressing the problem would have made situation recoverable

Otherwise, her reply is so unexpected, I would have asked her what she means exactly? Maybe it is nothing and once it is out of the way you can pursue your fun session. If the reply isn't satisfactory, it is possible that she is batshit crazy, I would have gotten upset by her selfishness and I would have thrown her out ASAP

[SargeMaximus]

On the other hand Shannon (this is my second cent), I do believe DMSI still needs fixing. I've been in bed with a HOT 8.5/10 woman and brought her to 3 orgasms with squirting all over her sheets and she went 180 on me and said "I don't see you that way" when I wanted to penetrate. Like, bro, that is some SERIOUSLY f*cked up shit, and something that should never happen in a million years on DMSI.

I'm curious about this experience. When did the girl told you that she don't see you that way? Was it immediately after the 3 orgasms or some time later?

See, if you didn't penetrated her right after giving her the orgasms when she was naked in your bed, she may have been disappointed and may have become confused as most men would have ravished her right there and then.

If she said that immediately after you gave her 3 orgasms. Well, I see 2 possibilities. There is something called calibration. It is useful in social interaction but also in sexual interaction. It is the action of being aware of how the other is feeling and adjust accordingly. Let's say that you were absorbed into what you were doing to her and not paying too much attention to her, that may explain why she did tried to leave in the middle of the session with any silly excuse. IMHO, simply asking her what is going on and addressing the problem would have made situation recoverable

Otherwise, her reply is so unexpected, I would have asked her what she means exactly? Maybe it is nothing and once it is out of the way you can pursue your fun session. If the reply isn't satisfactory, it is possible that she is batshit crazy, I would have gotten upset by her selfishness and I would have thrown her out ASAP

Replied in my journal to not derail thread.

[DarthXedonias]

Catman,

I think what Shannon meant is your deep fears what prevented you from achieving DMSI goals.

Therefore if you execute DMSI, you will get the girls you want.

Hi Samba,

We'll see if that happens. Like I've said before, I'm so glad that I have nowhere near as much fixation on girls as long ago. This constant failure doesn't bother me nearly as much anymore. Chasing them and obsessing over them seems to have been such a massive waste of time for me. I'm much more worried about this crisis at my second company, fixing that, rather than continuing to chase girls for zero ROI. I do know I'm vastly less interested in pursuing anything anymore. Maybe that's some IDGAF outcome independence, or some kind of sense of futility, who knows.

It's your way of sabotaging DMSI.

@Shannon Its interesting that you mentioned this Shannon because it made me remember something I had thought about months ago but for some reason forgot to mention on here. I remember at one point I did wonder if me and Catman were using the same loophole to sabotage DMSI 3.2. I remember because I kept on using this IDGAF attitude to make the Aura not snipe anyone. I then after a while noticed that Catman was getting the same IDGAF attitude as well when he would post his updates. Only difference was I noticed at the time was that mine seemed to be very in my face and very "forceful". It was like my conscious mind felt "compelled" to say that every time I tried to see if I found a girl attracted. I even tried to even focus more on seeing a women I would see as attractive as actually attractive only to give up seconds later because all motivation would leave me.

I had wondered at the same time if Catman was experiencing similar due to similar attitude coming up? All I know was the attitude for me felt very "unnatural" or "artificial" in a way. On top of that I just felt very "flat" in attitude all the time or mechanical I guess.

[dissonance]

Catman,

I think what Shannon meant is your deep fears what prevented you from achieving DMSI goals.

Therefore if you execute DMSI, you will get the girls you want.

Hi Samba,

We'll see if that happens. Like I've said before, I'm so glad that I have nowhere near as much fixation on girls as long ago. This constant failure doesn't bother me nearly as much anymore. Chasing them and obsessing over them seems to have been such a massive waste of time for me. I'm much more worried about this crisis at my second company, fixing that, rather than continuing to chase girls for zero ROI. I do know I'm vastly less interested in pursuing anything anymore. Maybe that's some IDGAF outcome independence, or some kind of sense of futility, who knows.

I just get irritated with this backwards notion that I'm "denying" these awesome results I'm apparently getting meanwhile I've been snubbed constantly. So I needed to speak up.

I meant nothing bad or troll etc. with my words. Probably a bit strong, but I didn't mean anything bad. Just wanted to be truthful.

What if deep down, you're resisting, because your true energy is not interested at all in having sex with lots of girls and/or having an abundant sex life with multiple women, and that if you took out any ego (just brainstorming), your true self would want just a committed, deep, emotionally mind body soul connection with one single female energy, rather than many meaningless sexual partners to fulfil an ego.

Maybe your idgaf attitude and lack of interest in chasing girls you are recently taking on is your inner self transforming you into the person who has the maximum sexual irresistibility level to the type of girl who you are *truly* deep down sexually attracted to, which maybe is someone who isn't just some basic high maintenance hottie (which maybe you arent actually truly attracted to; but just fulfils some pointless ego void), but someone who fulfils your desires and needs emotionally, psychologically, and sexually as well (someone who wont give a damn that you're a virgin)

Like for me, in recent weeks I've been having no interest at all in flirting with girls at my work, even though they're physically "beautiful", I have no actual deep-level sexual attraction to them, because i don't feel an emotional connection to any of them. I've had a shift as well in my own inner self and a lowering of ego and it's control over me. I haven't been flirting with them to try to make them like me or be attracted to me. I just dont care lol. Because now, I've "discovered" the type of girl who I'm actually TRULY deeply attracted to, and I've found one, and just building a connection with her now.

Or maybe I'm wrong. I'm just rambling my thoughts here.

[MasterEnki]

Catman,

I think what Shannon meant is your deep fears what prevented you from achieving DMSI goals.

Therefore if you execute DMSI, you will get the girls you want.

Hi Samba,

We'll see if that happens. Like I've said before, I'm so glad that I have nowhere near as much fixation on girls as long ago. This constant failure doesn't bother me nearly as much anymore. Chasing them and obsessing over them seems to have been such a massive waste of time for me. I'm much more worried about this crisis at my second company, fixing that, rather than continuing to chase girls for zero ROI. I do know I'm vastly less interested in pursuing anything anymore. Maybe that's some IDGAF outcome independence, or some kind of sense of futility, who knows.

I just get irritated with this backwards notion that I'm "denying" these awesome results I'm apparently getting meanwhile I've been snubbed constantly. So I needed to speak up.

I meant nothing bad or troll etc. with my words. Probably a bit strong, but I didn't mean anything bad. Just wanted to be truthful.

What if deep down, you're resisting, because your true energy is not interested at all in having sex with lots of girls and/or having an abundant sex life with multiple women, and that if you took out any ego (just brainstorming), your true self would want just a committed, deep, emotionally mind body soul connection with one single female energy, rather than many meaningless sexual partners to fulfil an ego.

Maybe your idgaf attitude and lack of interest in chasing girls you are recently taking on is your inner self transforming you into the person who has the maximum sexual irresistibility level to the type of girl who you are *truly* deep down sexually attracted to, which maybe is someone who isn't just some basic high maintenance hottie (which maybe you arent actually truly attracted to; but just fulfils some pointless ego void), but someone who fulfils your desires and needs emotionally, psychologically, and sexually as well (someone who wont give a damn that you're a virgin)

Like for me, in recent weeks I've been having no interest at all in flirting with girls at my work, even though they're physically "beautiful", I have no actual deep-level sexual attraction to them, because i don't feel an emotional connection to any of them. I've had a shift as well in my own inner self and a lowering of ego and it's control over me. I haven't been flirting with them to try to make them like me or be attracted to me. I just dont care lol. Because now, I've "discovered" the type of girl who I'm actually TRULY deeply attracted to, and I've found one, and just building a connection with her now.

Or maybe I'm wrong. I'm just rambling my thoughts here.

This!!!

This is a very interesting point, and is worth considering / contemplating.


Edit: I’m more interested in getting one (or a couple) of really compatiable (on a deep level) sexual partner(s), rather than lots of random hotties.

That is why I choose AYP / MYP, instead of DMSI.

I reckon, a lot of guys here (and elsewhere) are looking for something deeper than just hotties.

[mat422]

Not for nothing, but until you've had an abundant sex life how can you know it's not for you? The "I know what I want" can very easily just be the comfort zone. "This is what I'm familiar with therefore I'll stick to it instead of venturing outside of it". That's like saying you dislike a certain food you've never even tried. It's totally possible that the abundant sex life isn't for some people, but what I'm saying is how can you know for certain? Intuition or feeling? We all know how deceptive those can be. Not having a go at anyone in particular, it's just really easy to fall off the design goals of DMSI through self sabotage such as this.

[Shannon]

So, we're doing this for Friday night I guess.....alright then.

"Revisionist thinking". Well I don't remember executing such that I backpedal and claim it didn't happen. The idea of that seems ridiculous to me even, makes no sense why that would even happen. A person should be overjoyed they are executing, I know if T or S or either of the other two I dig would fully execute with me, I'd be beside myself. We'll see if that occurs someday.

If you are guilty of doing this, wouldn't it make sense for you to "not remember it" and "claim it didn't happen" to maintain your current stance? Let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say that consciously, you really don't remember doing this. Why is it so hard to believe that some emotion based subconscious part of you is doing this and then preventing you consciously from knowing it's happening? Wouldn't that be the perfect way to get away with doing it and keeping you where you are? And remember that some aspects of a person are not rational and logical. Especially the subconscious parts.

To your second point. EXACTLY. Therefore, it isn't as easy as "I believe I'm attractive therefore I am now", bit more involved than that. It isn't some internal belief as the overarching factor in whether a woman finds you attractive, you still need to "pass the test" so to speak of her own filters. And also proving my point that I've said here often that women are the ultimate deciders on what is attractive in a man. Not us. They have to power to accept or reject. So all the mental masturbation in the world, doesn't compare to real life results. Glad we agree on that.

Except we don't. You want to claim that women are the ultimate deciders as to whether a man is attractive, and I am living proof to the contrary. A woman decides what is attractive to her, until she changes what is attractive to her, or you do. If you know how and you choose to, you can change her point of view on what is and is not attractive. They have the same exact power you do to accept or reject. Nothing more, nothing less. You just want to play the helpless victim because if you don't, you might accidentally get your dick wet.

I don't believe we can "conclude" that at all. That's a theory. It's also possible this program is doing only a fraction of what it is theorised to do. And that there may be limits, whereas unless certain other things are brought to the table, all the "confidence" and "clearing and healing" in the world won't matter. I'm just not convinced its a simple formula for results anymore, given the massive amount of time the program has lagged in effectiveness for almost everyone. I've sadly just lost faith in it, I will dutifully use and test all versions as before, but I've largely given up the old fantasies I used to have about it. I've tried to report on things still in the hopes something can be taken and used for future versions, but it's hard to do when each report is always blown off or invalidated as "you're a resister, stop resisting, blah blah blah resist". Feels like there's no point in bothering. Again, as I've said before, I can't report on what doesn't happen. I'm trying my best to report what I think may be useful.

I'm not presenting a theory. I'm presenting what years of observing you and learning to understand what you are doing and how have shown me, based on my understanding of psychology. And the program isn't "theorized" to do anything. It's designed to accomplish certain goals, and as we advance it, we learn what the next step to accomplishing those goals is and we take those steps. Each time we do, we get closer.

Your use of the word theory is a way for you to discount what I am saying, because it is hitting a little too close to the mark, and that's really uncomfortable for whatever part or parts of you want to keep you in your current state. The fact remains, you are not achieving the goals, you're not even using DMSI as instructed anymore, and you do everything in your power to defeat the program and then claim it doesn't work and nothing happened, after reporting things happened.

Over time, you've reported less and less results and more and more of the smokescreen "nothing happened/it doesn't work/I don't think it will ever work". That would be a pattern someone who is trying to prevent success would follow. You are trying to prevent success by practicing self denial and self deception. I don't know how much you consciously know you're doing it, but I know you're doing it, and I know you're doing it to actively prevent yourself from achieving the goals.

Your pattern also shows that the program is getting closer and closer to the mark, because you're doing more and more things to prevent it from working. For example, I specifically instructed you to run DMSI 3.2 for 7 loops a day. Your response was to create excuses not to, and then make token effort after that. Because you don't want to achieve the goals, and you're trying to prevent it from happening. And as it gets better and better, you have to go more and more out of your way to prevent it from succeeding.

I feel the next "conclude" is a theory, based on a theory. Hard to quantify in reality. And hard to imagine a fear of success, or even why it would exist, especially when I haven't even achieved "success" or something close to it, (however that is considered to be in one's mind) with women before.

Ah, feelings. Feelings are not logical, sir. You can't think with your feelings and be logical. And your argument that follows certainly upholds that. More attempts to discredit what I say, because you don't want to hear it. You don't want to change. You don't want to achieve the goals. Anything but that! The fact is, at this point, I'm relatively sure that you're at least as invested in resisting DMSI because you want to "prove me wrong" as you are because you're scared to death of achieving the results. And here's the kicker. I'm one of the people who executes DMSI best. It is in my best interests for you to succeed. And I am not a virgin. So here I am trying to point out to you how you are self sabotaging, and you're doing everything in your power to discredit what I say and deny it, instead of considering it and that I could be on to something.

Einstein once said, "You cannot solve a problem with the same thinking that created it." You keep insisting you have everything figured out, and yet somehow, DMSI doesn't seem to accomplish for you anymore what it was accomplishing for you five versions back, while virtually everyone else is getting better and better results. So what we have here is, you don't want to achieve the goal, so you're self sabotaging and refusing to hear anything that will help you achieve the goal because... you don't want to achieve the goal. And as the program gets better, you have to try harder to assert that it's not working and self sabotage in order to maintain your status quo.

Again, I never said you achieved success. I said you were reporting results in the past, and then a day or two later, saying it never happened. Then after a while, you replaced that with nothing but smokescreen responses.

Yep 100%, definitely sure based off feedback that I'm not deemed "attractive" by women, for whatever reason. I've long since become more and more tired of trying to solve that rubik's cube that never seems to actually pan out and provide an ROI for the endless thought, energy, time and money spent on trying to get to the bottom of it. Seems to be if you have "it", you do. Like my bad boy friends that rained girls leaving me scratching my head how and why, while not seemingly "doing" anything. While also treating them like disposable trash, the girls complaining about it, but them still raining hot girls which makes no sense but I've seen it happen in front of me for decades. Then those of us in reality, live lives of quiet desperation for some reason, while allegedly being the "real man they want", it's a crock of BS. I've sometimes thought that we can "conclude" that the problem seems to be the wiring of the females in question since 3rd wave feminism, which is likely to be out of reach of a sub we are listening to. (And how unchecked hypergamy has had drastic, devastating consequences on western relationships, but we're getting off topic.) Maybe WE aren't the problem here. That revelation has been big to me. Maybe there isn't something wrong with me after all. Maybe I just don't fit in with things in this current cultural climate. Feels warm, but still doesn't solve my problem of a lack of intimacy in the end.

I would say that what you describe sounds like the women are picking up something about you that either scares them or repels them. But if you aren't the problem, then why does every effort and every product you try in every direction always fail? You are the common factor, man.

OH...THAT'S what you mean with the "revisionist" thing?! The [reference removed] thing? A total non issue. A funny sweet gesture she offered, things that have happened to me long before subs. I did some good things to help her out when she was in very bad straits for awhile, so she wanted to say thanks. Also, she has a boyfriend, lives with him, will probably marry him, in love with him. Has a kid with him, cute little boy, maybe another on the way someday they've spoken about. Zero issue there. Is she hot? Yes, I think one of the hottest girls I've seen before. Is she involved? Yes. Is she also super high drama with some serious red flags from the past? Yes. Are we just friends? Yes. Nothing was going on there. Even the guy knew about it. Nothing going on, no worries.

No, that's not what I mean with the revisionist history. It used to be that you would get results, report them with varying degrees of excitement and then a day or two or three later, there would be posts that nothing was happening, or that what you posted before didn't happen. Reversal. The [reference removed] thing was totally different. And a little birdy tells me that what you said here about this being something that happened before subs is a baldfaced lie according to what you told them concerning your results from DMSI. I'm still trying to figure out which of you is telling the truth. But this does raise the interesting possibility of you being consciously and willfully deceptive.

So...NO. I'm not "in denial". That whole thing confused me for awhile now, good to see I found out the background of why that was said about me. It's a complete non story. I knew there was some reason you kept saying that "denial" thing. Now I know the reason. Makes sense, but now I'm glad that's clarified. I'm here to be honest and truthful, so it bugged me the claim that I was not in some way.

In denial about being in denial? lol You're trying to frame this as being something it's not. Simply put, you have reported results from DMSI multiple times, and then reversed course and claimed nothing happened or that "it didn't mean anything". Anyone who cares to go back and read through your journals can see it. If you don't delete the evidence, of course.

You seem to have read WWWAAAYYY into that [reference removed] thing. I didn't know what you were talking about before you mentioned that story. It was such a non-issue it didn't even register with me to think of. That's why I was getting annoyed with the implication over and over and couldn't figure why. Nothing was going on there. It was a simple sweet friendly offering, to repay what I did for her back in the day. That I didn't even end up taking as I was unavailable that day. Not a big deal at all. Still talk to her and all, but nothing will happen sexually or whatever, she's involved and happy. And I'm glad for that, because for a long time, she wasn't happy and had lots of losers etc.

Except that, as I hear it, you were convinced that it was a done deal, and you would be getting laid by her as a result of DMSI. But again, I don't have definitive proof of which side is being accurate yet.

The "Jessica Alba" analogy was sound based off your other post. Also, I did think it was obvious at the time...but...that WAS a bit tongue in cheek, Shannon...lol! I admit I'm surprised it was taken as pure seriousness, can probably just chalk that up to the internet being what it is, so no problem. I was merely continuing said logic to the extreme to show it's conclusion. To shed light on the fact that it doesn't really work, and scale properly. And that there's more to it than that. I do not believe just being interested in women can make them interested in you. Otherwise, I wouldn't have struggled mightily with women as I have, and neither would most of the other guys here. But again, it was more tongue in cheek than anything. And because I enjoyed the brief idea of Jessica Alba being attracted to me...so...

I never said that just being interested in women will make them interested in you. I said it can make them interested in you. If she is not interested before she learns you are interested, she might be willing to reconsider. If she was interested but thought you weren't, then she may move on that. If she was neutral and discovers that you are interested, it will cause her to reconsider. But letting a woman know you are interested does help in some cases. It's not the end all be all by itself.

And again, another "theory" about my lack of interest in women. As I've said in the past, it's also highly likely that I'm simply losing interest in women because: I'm 37 as of the 18th of September, naturally the libido will start dialing back, I know I've felt a big drop the last year or so. I'm also just sick and tired of chasing women and making them such a focus just to be disappointed. And that I've lost a ton of faith in this sub ever delivering, so the "urge" for it just isn't like before where I was like an addict dying for "the next version to get xyz tech, maybe now I'll execute blah blah". Not to mention the emerging feeling that women my age either have hard miles and baggage (often due to the bad boys they chose when younger instead of guys like me...) I don't think is fair to expect me to deal with. Or children from other men I also don't feel is fair to burden me with, I'd prefer to have my own, not raise some other man's. That leaves younger women, that have tons of options, are very hard to get any momentum with, as time goes on my age disparity with them grows making it more awkward to try. And I struggle to see it being realistic to have anything happen with them. So, I do sometimes feel it's "too late" now for me due to those factors. I "should" have been married with kids by now (anti-male divorce laws aside, I'm talking about normal rites of passage from earlier generations), I do envy earlier generations where they were able to do that, I at times feel screwed over. Maybe 1-2 entering high school now, but I haven't been able to make that happen. Never mind a date, that didn't even end up going anywhere, I haven't even had that before shockingly. Even if I had kids now, I'd be 50 when they are 13!!! Not sure if dealing with teenaged kids is something many 50 year olds want to handle or CAN handle. And I'd have to find "the right girl" right now, good luck with that. The longer it takes, the worse the age disparity will be. So I often wonder if it's too late. All of that, is the rationale behind why I'm not so stuck on women anymore. I will say it feels good to finally not be so "obsessed" with them, especially since that never panned out for me in success with them anyway. And just ended up making me feel bad about myself. Maybe it's more balanced now, and before it wasn't, I don't know. I do I'm clearly different than the average "I want to get laid with hot chicks, brah!" DMSI listener. So maybe that's why the perspective is so different than others.

You are again attempting to discredit what I say. There must be a motivation for that. Is it because I am actually wrong, or because I am getting too close to the mark and you don't want that known?

Your pattern as a whole says that it is the latter. The pattern as a whole also fits perfectly with you choosing to disengage your interest in women because you know that the program uses your level of interest and attraction to fire the aura and snipers, and makes the program work. If your goal is for the program to not work, and you have no other ways to stop it, wouldn't it make perfect sense for you to artificially shut down your interest and focus it on something else, all the while claiming that it's because you're tired of failure, or whatever? That would seem to be the perfect excuse.

You are 37. I'm 45. My libido hasn't dialed back. Why should yours? If either of our libidos should have, it's mine. Usually it's after 40 when libido starts to drop. I believe that your libido has dropped because you are trying to prevent yourself from succeeding with DMSI at any cost, in any way possible.

You have a strong incentive to do anything necessary to prevent yourself from executing and getting laid, based on the amount of fear it would take to achieve the results you have had. You were starting to get results, and you were starting to get excited about them, and then you shut yourself down each and every time. Then you clamped down harder and stopped reporting results. Then you went so far as to stop using it as instructed. All actions that only make sense if you're trying to fail.

These subs don't work on faith. They work on cooperation and execution. Which you are not doing. We know you CAN do it, we have seen what happens when you do. But in this case, you simply will not. That is your will, that is your choice, and that is your result.

If you don't want women your age, go find one younger. One without baggage, drama, jaded attitude or kids. Nobody is stopping you from that. They're legal at what, 16 in Canada? So choose the age group you want, and go get one. You don't need to choose women your own age. My girlfriend is much younger than me for exactly those reasons. And you don't have to have kids. You can also adopt, or forego. I haven't had kids yet because the conditions were not right. I'm going to become a daddy in my late 40's at the earliest, and you bet your ass I'm going to be there for them growing up. It can be done. Especially if you're the millionaire you claim to be. Hire help in the form of an au pair if need be.

You're just throwing up excuses why you can't, at this point.

Shannon, I meant zero drama. I just wanted to respond to the "denial etc." thing because it's been confusing to me for a long time. Last thing I wanted was an essay back and forth on a Friday night, lmao! I just saw this narrative of me over and over and over, was confused about it and kinda annoyed me as I took pride in being honest and upfront about issues guys have real difficulty talking about. To try to help the sub work someday, not just for selfish reasons, but for others too! I'm glad in a way, because now I know the REASON for you thinking that about me. This is all squared away with me, just FYI. Seems to be down to a misinterpretation of the [reference removed] story, so I'm fine now. And, as usual, this will boil down to "the next version", using it and testing it and seeing if it's different. Which I will naturally do. I'm on break since your post to stop listening to 5.5G to prepare for it.

We all await V3.3 sometime. All the best.

I am going through all this to try to get you to see what I see about why DMSI doesn't work for you. I have spent a lot of time running the models on you, and what it shows me is that I have a choice. I can make the final product work for you, and suck for everyone else, or I can make it work for 98%+ and not work as well as otherwise for you and a few others. Any sane businessman is going to go with the numbers, so I'm trying to get you back on track to success. In the end, I have to make it work as well as I can for the majority. The minority who refuses to cooperate is going to have to deal with that. I am still planning to make it work as well as I can for everyone, but the majority rules here.

[Shannon]

Lol, always when another DMSI is just around the corner, we get things like this.

I just wanted to throw 2 cents in and then be on my way.

First of all, CatMan, while I understand your frustrations (having been a virgin myself into my late 20's), I still find it odd, and even a bit funny that you say things like this:

Like my bad boy friends that rained girls leaving me scratching my head how and why, while not seemingly "doing" anything. While also treating them like disposable trash, the girls complaining about it, but them still raining hot girls […]

I mean, here you've noticed a character trait that women seem attracted to but instead of snap your fingers and say "Gee, maybe THAT'S what I need to do more of..." you "scratch your head". Seriously dude, Wtf?

I learned a long time ago to stop wondering "why" and just accept the facts and incorporate them into my character. And it WORKS, so to me, you have no excuse here. You're literally saying "I have a piece of the puzzle but I'm not going to use it".


On the other hand Shannon (this is my second cent), I do believe DMSI still needs fixing. I've been in bed with a HOT 8.5/10 woman and brought her to 3 orgasms with squirting all over her sheets and she went 180 on me and said "I don't see you that way" when I wanted to penetrate. Like, bro, that is some SERIOUSLY f*cked up shit, and something that should never happen in a million years on DMSI.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you flat out ignore her when she told you before anything happened that she didn't want sex with you, and instead try to tell her that you were going to have sex regardless? What the hell did you expect, man?

I know you'll say "Sarge, you have to [insert Sarge's responsibility here]" BUT, may I remind you that ANYTHING you can fill in that box is possible for me to do WITHOUT DMSI, therefore the program becomes useless unless it can achieve something I cannot do on my own. Like a drill, I only buy tools that help me achieve what I cannot do on my own. This goes for subs as you yourself have said before: they are a tool.

Anyhow, that's it from me. Hope you guys have a great weekend.

Since it is only a list of instructions, and you have to be able to do those instructions to achieve the results, you would logically have to be able to do them without DMSI, thus logically rendering DMSI useless to you according to your own logic, and making me wonder, why are you using it? Clearly your logic doesn't work here.

[SargeMaximus]

Lol, always when another DMSI is just around the corner, we get things like this.

I just wanted to throw 2 cents in and then be on my way.

First of all, CatMan, while I understand your frustrations (having been a virgin myself into my late 20's), I still find it odd, and even a bit funny that you say things like this:

Like my bad boy friends that rained girls leaving me scratching my head how and why, while not seemingly "doing" anything. While also treating them like disposable trash, the girls complaining about it, but them still raining hot girls […]

I mean, here you've noticed a character trait that women seem attracted to but instead of snap your fingers and say "Gee, maybe THAT'S what I need to do more of..." you "scratch your head". Seriously dude, Wtf?

I learned a long time ago to stop wondering "why" and just accept the facts and incorporate them into my character. And it WORKS, so to me, you have no excuse here. You're literally saying "I have a piece of the puzzle but I'm not going to use it".


On the other hand Shannon (this is my second cent), I do believe DMSI still needs fixing. I've been in bed with a HOT 8.5/10 woman and brought her to 3 orgasms with squirting all over her sheets and she went 180 on me and said "I don't see you that way" when I wanted to penetrate. Like, bro, that is some SERIOUSLY f*cked up shit, and something that should never happen in a million years on DMSI.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you flat out ignore her when she told you before anything happened that she didn't want sex with you, and instead try to tell her that you were going to have sex regardless? What the hell did you expect, man?

She did NOT say anything of the sort before I started fingering her. Nor did I try to tell her we were going to have sex regardless. Wtf. I wouldn't do that. She told me "I don't want to have sex" after I had already made her cum 3 times and squirt all over the bed.

I know you'll say "Sarge, you have to [insert Sarge's responsibility here]" BUT, may I remind you that ANYTHING you can fill in that box is possible for me to do WITHOUT DMSI, therefore the program becomes useless unless it can achieve something I cannot do on my own. Like a drill, I only buy tools that help me achieve what I cannot do on my own. This goes for subs as you yourself have said before: they are a tool.

Anyhow, that's it from me. Hope you guys have a great weekend.

Since it is only a list of instructions, and you have to be able to do those instructions to achieve the results, you would logically have to be able to do them without DMSI, thus logically rendering DMSI useless to you according to your own logic, and making me wonder, why are you using it? Clearly your logic doesn't work here.

I'm using it because it gives me a nice vibe. It doesn't get me what the sales page attests, however. But just because it doesn't deliver completely, doesn't mean it doesn't deliver in another way. Like I said: it's an alarm clock that doesn't make any noise but makes a great reading lamp. So of course I'm going to keep using it as a reading lamp, but I'm still hoping you can make it into a working alarm clock.

I am curious if you'll give me a straight answer here as well: Is DMSI simply supposed to make the girls who already want the user more prone to act?

[Shannon]

I wonder why you ask of I will give you a straight answer.

DMSI is designed to cause those you are sexually attracted to, to respond to you with sexual attraction.

Those who were already attracted would probably respond faster and more easily, but the design goal is who you find sexually attractive.

[RTBoss]

I just want to say this about DMSI:

A.) The sales pages clearly states that it's experimental.

B.) Just because you haven't achieved the design goal with DMSI, doesn't mean others haven't. So is it DMSI, or is it you?

Even *I* haven't achieved design goal, unless you count my wife. I know why I haven't, and I have resisted each version up to this point. Shannon told me, many versions ago, that I may find ways to resist the entire 3.x line. But (!) I'm not going around blaming the program. He's working diligently on adjusting the program, with each successive version, to work for most everyone. As this happens, 6G comes closer to fruition. I'm happy to be a part of that, myself. Furthermore, the value I've received has far outweighed the investment.

[SargeMaximus]

Thank you Shannon for clarifying that. Much of my theory is now down the drain, which suits me fine.

I just want to say this about DMSI:

A.) The sales pages clearly states that it's experimental.

B.) Just because you haven't achieved the design goal with DMSI, doesn't mean others haven't. So is it DMSI, or is it you?

Even *I* haven't achieved design goal, unless you count my wife. I know why I haven't, and I have resisted each version up to this point. Shannon told me, many versions ago, that I may find ways to resist the entire 3.x line. But (!) I'm not going around blaming the program. He's working diligently on adjusting the program, with each successive version, to work for most everyone. As this happens, 6G comes closer to fruition. I'm happy to be a part of that, myself. Furthermore, the value I've received has far outweighed the investment.

I get value out of it too, I'm not saying I don't. How many times have I praised DMSI?

BUT, like you said, it's experimental which means: it's not working perfectly. YET, whenever someone has anything to say in that regard, it's all "it's your fault, not this highly experimental sub that isn't finished yet. No, that couldn't be it, it's all you." Bro, how does that even make sense?

The cool thing about the 180 phenomenon that I had with the 8.5 is that this same phenomenon has been happening for me with every installment of DMSI but it has gotten less and less bad with each version, bringing me closer and closer to sex. So it's obviously getting better.

Anyhow, all I'm trying to do is point out the flaws and suggest ways to overcome them.

I had this crazy idea that DMSI was only designed to get girls you already wanted, but Shannon says that's not the case so I can forget that theory. I'm not sorry I'm wrong on that because it renews my hope in the program. But again, I must stress that if DMSI needs me to learn PUA then it's not much of a tool. Therefore, it is my sincere hope that it will provide me with the vibe, calibration, and savvy needed to become a successful seducer of hot girls.

[CatMan]

Nobody is "trying to discredit" anything. I only responded to my name being brought up while you were going back and forth to someone else, who quoted my post to say they wanted an AYP. I just wanted a clear picture in the hopes that the sub can work on me someday. I felt if an inaccurate picture is there, maybe the program won't have the accurate scripting in it to handle my issues. So it's very important to me to be clear. I consider it closed.

You say I'm being a "victim", I say I'm just seeing that people have just as much say in whether I'm attractive as I do, if not more. As I've said before, we don't live in a vacuum. We NEED that external feedback to have a clear understanding of what value we are in relation to others. And since I want to be with them, their opinion of my attractiveness matters a great deal, in reality. As it's integral to the process. We all need external validation to show we are attractive, since we aren't trying to bang ourselves! If you believe you're attractive, but nobody wants you, are you REALLY attractive? No. My point was it isn't as simple as it is at times made out to be. That's it. Nothing else to delve into.

I always try to have as much clarity on my background as possible. The last thing I want is something misunderstood, misinterpreted, or whatever, and then when "final" rolls around, some issue isn't handled and I don't get a result. I've stuck in for a LONG time, I would like that pay off someday.

On our ages, it's totally possible my test has fallen a great deal the last year or so, and yours hasn't. It was only a possible. I have had issues with porn and fapping and PIED, and went for a test with my GP for diabetes awhile back due to erection issues I complained of. So it's possible this is either leftover from porn and fapping/PIED, or low test now. But it could also be me simply being fed up with poor results and checking out of things with girls. Or it could simply be my business crisis I've mentioned before and will below again, so my focus may be on that internally. Which I feel it probably should be from a maturity/responsibility standpoint. Probably not the most appropriate time for chasing girls, maybe after this is all stable.

I stopped doing 7 loops for a reason I already CLEARLY explained before on the forum. I had a partner who I started a second company with. Very ambitious, what it's doing, has never been done before in that niche. I'm enormously proud of it. My partner had to abruptly pull out due an emergency. I then had to right the ship myself, it's still lingering. It's been a massive diversion. I have a lot of responsibility to manage this crisis. I don't want exhaustion and bull shit making my life even harder. During V3.0.1, the exhaustion was SO devastating, I had to hire assistants to help me fulfill my duties! Which I ALSO have written about before. And I NEVER want that kind of derailing of my life again. It wasn't even worth it anyway in the end. That was a massive price to pay, more than I think anyone here has paid! So either you've forgotten that, or didn't know at all, but I was clear about mentioning that in the past. I don't think anybody else has pushed this hard for this sub, I've put in the effort! But during this new crisis, the last thing I needed was THAT again, so I had to make a judgement call. If anyone wants to believe it's all somehow "resistance"...well so be it. And I still kept using the program, just not at such an extreme usage. My immediate priority is fixing this company and balancing things. You had the "cycle", I have had "this". Both huge catastrophes we've had to manage. My life isn't the same as the college aged guy who can have more flexibility in using a sub like this I readily understand. I admit I'm not the "ideal" target market for this sub, but all I can do, is be who and what I am, and try the best I can.

Shannon, honestly, maybe it's me, but I just don't seem to see the "getting better and better" thing around the forum. Never mind me, forget about me. If YOU see it, okay then, fair enough, I'm glad, maybe you see things we don't. Overall, I see guys doing and saying the same things in the end, and little to no design goal. Maybe one version will really blow the doors off things someday. If I didn't believe it was possible, I would have stopped using long ago. But I've kept using every version since V2.2. And bought V1 opening day to support you and this project, even though it'd be MONTHS before I'd even be able to use it, as I was on E2.

On the age of consent, yes indeed, 16 is the age of majority for that here. It's changed a bit over time, but stands at 16 now. I'd love for it to be as easy as you suggest for me, to "just go out and get a younger woman" like that. If it was as effortless, I'd have probably done it long ago, absolutely. I have struggled to "be" attractive to begin with, so until the attractiveness itself has changed, the results have been poor. Kinda like saying "if you're hungry, eat", but there's no food around . Maybe in future versions I'll get "food". Nice/charming/funny guy, but seemingly no attraction. To Sarge on this point, buddy I tried to mimic the "bad boy" thing long ago yes exactly. It was cringe in retrospect, and I wasn't able to get the same results as my friends. I just came off as a jerk, but no attraction, LOL. So I was missing something, it probably wasn't "real" somehow, so it was off. But yes, I did indeed try to "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em". I hear you.

I can't understand this "refuse to cooperate" narrative. Besides listening to the sub, having the volume at the best level we can stand, religiously using the loops prescribed on the sales page, getting ourselves into situations with girls we find attractive to let the sub work on people we find attractive, not sure what else we can do to "cooperate". We have no direct oversight into what goes into the sub, we have no direct oversight of the sub being made. We don't really have much active stuff to do in this process. All we have, is downloading it, making sure the hashes are good, following sales page instructions, getting around people we find attractive. We have nothing else we can "do". And in fact, with me hiring two people to help me do my duties due to the insane exhaustion I had in the past with V3.0.1, JUST TO CONTINUE using the sub...I don't think anyone has "cooperated" more than I have. I've soldiered through this for a very long time now. Given my results on it along the way, it's at times been a challenge to stay positive and motivated. One of the things that made it possible was me not being so motivated to try other ones that were released, so that at times helps me "stay on the path" as this goal was more appetizing than others.

Well, that's very disappointing to hear the sub isn't likely to work for me. Even still, completely respectable business decision, I would've said and done the same. It'd be foolish otherwise, maybe someday I can buy a custom DMSI then, hahahahaha. Weird how it's one extreme or the other, me and the minority, or the majority. Whatever it is, that's the issue(s), must not be handled well by other's minds, and vice versa. Hopefully others get design goal at least, it'll be nice to see some payoff for people after such a very long haul. It'll be fun to read those posts too! Good to know I'm in the 2%, suspected as much for a long time. Well very few businesses survive and prosper, give or take that 2% figure, so maybe it's poetic and another challenge to get through. We'll see!

If I'm wrong about everything in this post, fine. I'm not interested in big back and forths, this already grew way out of what it was intended to be. And the massive time is way better spent working on B17 and V3.3. I didn't want you to think I'd ignore your words as sometimes when I didn't want to continue big diatribes you've thought I didn't read them or address them, so I did here. But I again have no interest in a big diatribe, this has dragged on way more than I thought it would. And these posts take FOREVER to write, lmao. Bottom line, last thing I'd claim to be is an expert on women. If I'm wrong on the "girl-related" stuff, fair enough. All is well.

Now, I'm going to take some Advil, my hands are killing me from all this typing, lol.

We all await the day V3.3 shows up in a month or two, or whenever it's ready!

#WeAreTheTwoPercent

[lano1106]

I just want to point out that upon using DMSI 3.1 in July 2017 after only 2 weeks, I got my first and only DMSI success. It did happen exactly as advertised.

I went to a wedding. I saw a cute brunette very early on and I remember imagining having sex with her and having the desire to have sex with the girl as I was looking at her.

Then, a series of "lucky" events, such as ending up on the seat next to her during the dinner. Of course, since I was attracted to her, I did flirt a bit with her.

It is as if, I took the conscious decision of wanting the girl and my subconscious mind did the work to make it happen.

1 week later, she found me on FB. Started to chat with me. Wanted to see me again. She did confess that she was masturbating several times per day thinking about me and she is being feeling that way since the wedding because of the way that I was looking at her (No idea how I did that exactly...)

That was the best friend with benefit that I have never had before. She knew that I was very busy so she was doing everything she could to accommodate me like she was renting a hotel room in the morning nearby my place. She was bringing a breakfast. All I had to do was to meet her, have sex with her and let her spoil me.

This relation ended up painfully. First, she knew that I was unavailable for anything else than some casual sex and at first she was fine with that. But She found me so extraordinaire that she ended up in love with me, wanted to have a kid from me and the break up has been painful.

Hence, in retrospect, I must confess that this made me freak out and I must have resisted DMSI since that moment to avoid the same kind of awkward situation. I have consciously made that realisation when I stopped using DMSI to give AM6 a try in July 2018.

Despite seeing a lot of women that I find very attractive. I have never looked again at a girl and telling to myself. I want to have this girl in my bed like I did with my first success.

but honestly, my first DMSI success was fast, the best FWB relation where the girl was taking care of the logistic and was making it easy for me to just "come" see her. and it was exactly as advertised in the DMSI sales page.