Shannon's Journal Discussion Volume 3

[DarkPlouf]

@Have at ye

Another is the he is that nice. And unfortunately subconsciously women perceive it as weakness. Hence when you care too much, show too much emotion. She assumes you’re a bitch. If you ignore her to the extent of extinction. She respects you because she’s like “oh, he HAS backbone, cute”

On her end it could be self esteem issues or worse, he needs to what he isn’t: more abusive.

Unfortunately very few women actually like honesty/sincerity. Or else we wouldn’t need these subs change or suppress certain traits in us.

We’ve all been ourselves prior to subs, who could we pretend to be. Flaws and all. That’s probably why he asked why she’s heading for anywhere but with him.

Thankyou for everyone's valuable insights on my friend. To conclude DMSI would be the best option ?. He admits he has self esteem issues and when he looks in the mirror he says he doesnt think he is that great looking.

How about he gives a shot at Emotional Healing first? I had and still have a lot of issues that DMSI A didn't resolve, and I don't see much people growing either after years of runs of DMSI. IMO if I were him I'd rather run E2 a few months than maybe jump the DMSI A train.
SE is a good sub too, I did feel this one, but E2 seems overall a better choice.
Also, I hope you'll make him understand that no amount of subliminal will make him change unless he really takes the decision to change.

[thor2014]

@Have at ye

Another is the he is that nice. And unfortunately subconsciously women perceive it as weakness. Hence when you care too much, show too much emotion. She assumes you’re a bitch. If you ignore her to the extent of extinction. She respects you because she’s like “oh, he HAS backbone, cute”

On her end it could be self esteem issues or worse, he needs to what he isn’t: more abusive.

Unfortunately very few women actually like honesty/sincerity. Or else we wouldn’t need these subs change or suppress certain traits in us.

We’ve all been ourselves prior to subs, who could we pretend to be. Flaws and all. That’s probably why he asked why she’s heading for anywhere but with him.

Thankyou for everyone's valuable insights on my friend. To conclude DMSI would be the best option ?. He admits he has self esteem issues and when he looks in the mirror he says he doesnt think he is that great looking.

How about he gives a shot at Emotional Healing first? I had and still have a lot of issues that DMSI A didn't resolve, and I don't see much people growing either after years of runs of DMSI. IMO if I were him I'd rather run E2 a few months than maybe jump the DMSI A train.
SE is a good sub too, I did feel this one, but E2 seems overall a better choice.
Also, I hope you'll make him understand that no amount of subliminal will make him change unless he really takes the decision to change.

Thanks mate will send him links for both subs and he can decide what to use.

[MasterEnki]

@Have at ye

Another is the he is that nice. And unfortunately subconsciously women perceive it as weakness. Hence when you care too much, show too much emotion. She assumes you’re a bitch. If you ignore her to the extent of extinction. She respects you because she’s like “oh, he HAS backbone, cute”

On her end it could be self esteem issues or worse, he needs to what he isn’t: more abusive.

Unfortunately very few women actually like honesty/sincerity. Or else we wouldn’t need these subs change or suppress certain traits in us.

We’ve all been ourselves prior to subs, who could we pretend to be. Flaws and all. That’s probably why he asked why she’s heading for anywhere but with him.

My experience has been that when I ignore women, they ignore me back.

When I’m nice to women, they generally act friendlier towards me, and start conversations with me.

Also, I have reached ‘first base’ (them kissing me) with 4 different women, all of whom I was nice and friendly towards before they kissed me. They all made the move on me. They all knew me for several months / years beforehand. But no sex though.

Three of them seem to have lost interest (are with someone else - I personally know their new boyfriends). And one says she wants to sleep with me, but can’t due to crappy circumstances. I’m keeping in contact with all of them as ‘just friends’ because circumstances change over time and you never know, and maybe I will meet someone new through them.


I think different people have different experiences, and what works for one person, doesn’t work for someone else.


Edit: My friend (who has slept with quite a few women) suggested that hanging with women as ‘just friends’ is good, since it is ‘social proof’.


Also, changed a few words to make it clearer and easier to read. Added a paragraph.

I used to be nice now I’m more distant. You I have to say have been lucky not to have to deal with shitty behavior from them while you were being social and well mannered. I ignore girls if I’m friendly and chill to them and they start to blank like I’ve said nothing or insult me without cause.

I’ve had this instant happen a couple times, out of the blue. Yet guys they like who play games and are fake af, even he puts through hell she’ll not only stay but smile as well. And even clutch to that type of slimy dude harder and even respect him.
The dude isn’t even remotely like that will get kicked to the curb, he’s gonna have suck it up.

So yeah as much as I don’t like it. I’m really skeptical and a little abusive to them. Having a Even little more respect and consideration than she has for herself is not good.

You’re friend is right. Though I’ll that if she’s a friend that you both have chemistry because it’s funnest that way. And not the motivation for social proof for social proof sake, it’s actually genuine that way and not fake. Plus female friends with real genuine chemistry is rare and really more enjoyable for me than dude friends, for me.

Most my life I was ‘never been kissed’ until just over a year ago. These ‘first base’ action (hugging / kissing) were mostly one-off events.

A = I used to work with her back in 2011. She was at a recent Christmas party that I attended. She walked straight up to me and started kissing me, and pulled me into her. But afterwards she just wanted to be ‘just friends’ (maybe she got too drunk?)

D = I have known since 2008. Recently, in November, I was invited to a dance / mosh pit kind of thing. She was there and asked me to dance with her, and when I was dancing with her, she started grinding on me, and hugged / kissed a bit. A few weeks later she saw me having lunch with M (aka 37yo woman), and D hugged me and talked for a few minutes and then left. Next time I saw her she had a boyfriend (who seems like a pretty cool dude).

J = I have known since 2007. One day, recently, I was sitting by myself having lunch (at my favourite cafe), and she saw me and came over to say hello, and unexpectedly grabbed me around the waist and pulled me into her and kissed me. She sat with me for a bit and but her arm around me and kissed me again, saying that she had to go back to work (we both work near the cafe, at different jobs). Next time I saw her at the same cafe, I was having lunch with M (37yo woman). Recently, I’ve seen J with another guy (the same guy) on a few occasions.

M = I met in 2016, at my favourite cafe. She pointed at me and said “Lunch”. I had lunch with her. A few weeks later I saw her again at the same cafe, and she said “Lunch” again. After having lunch a few times, she started running up and hugging me, before sitting down for lunch. October 2017, she pointed at me and her, and said “swimming”, and I said okay. We went swimming and enjoyed it. A month later, she had dinner with me, and invited me back to her place, were I saw her naked in her room, and before anything could happen, her carer stopped things and dropped the banhammer on me (banned me from visiting her). M has brain damage (and that prevents any sexual relationship from happening). She still occasionally says “bed together”, “sleepover” and similar things. We can only be ‘just friends’. We still have lunch and enjoy the companionship. I enjoy seeing her, and plan to regularly have lunch with her as ‘just friends’ (at least, until I meet a woman who will be my FWB or sexual lover - which will likely take up my time).

3 of the 4 are minor friends at the moment (A, D, J), and the other one is a main friend (the one who said she wanted to sleep with me [M, aka 37yo woman] But I don’t think that will happen since the circumstances are quite complicated).

A or D, I will have lunch with once every 1-2 months.
J, I tend to run into her once every few weeks, since she likes the same cafe that I go to regularly.
M, I see once a week at public location(s) for lunch (mostly my favourite cafe).

I find it frustrating that I still haven’t lost my virginity. But I’m really happy to have made progress, and I reckon I’m half way there now (compared to 0% a couple of years ago).



I’ve witnessed heaps of women with douchebags. The whole ‘badboy’ trope seems pretty accurate for a lot of women.

I also know that SOME women are more open to nice / kindhearted guys.

It seems reasonable that only women with high self-esteem, self-worth, self-respect, etc. will consider nice / kindhearted guys.



My male friend (who is good with women) gave me a few pointers on getting a FWB. According to him:
- Focus on friendship, and let things happen naturally.
- Guys that are seen in public with women = he must be safe to be around, trustworthy, non-creepy, etc. (in female strangers minds)
- Going out just to meet women is a great way to stay sexless (he told me that he met his FWBs while fishing, surfing and enjoying nature).
- If she approaches you, offer her {EDITED by Shannon to comply with rules about not advocating doing things that are illegal on the forum}.
- Good vibes attract good tribes
- Always carry a couple of good condoms


I have noticed that when I think about sex, women avoid me. And when I am absent-minded, or off in my own little world, women tend to be much more open to me.


Edit: In case anyone is wondering,
A = 39 yo
D = 45
J = 31
M = 37

It seems women my age (30) and younger avoid me like the plague!

[Zeroxmachina]

I've used the program for two years, since V2.2. Was the funny/nice/charming guy, still am viewed as such. Don't see any sexual attraction from women, no sexual escalation from them. I either have gotten LJBF, or excuses when asking them out and trying to take initiative because they weren't approaching me like design goal so I tried to do something. Or ghosting me when I'd text them to go out if I had their number. Clearly not high value, or sexually attractive. Even after two years of listening. Never mind my old SM3 run etc. I guess it's no surprise why I basically don't bother anymore with women, now that I went back and read that.

Makes it hard to get behind the program to be honest, not seeing anything happen to me in reality, after two years, that makes me stop and say "wow, this thing is for real!". It's why I'm still very skeptical of it. Since it can't change our physical appearance and face to be a "hot guy", not sure what it does to somehow make women we are attracted to, attracted to us. No idea how that exactly is supposed to work in reality. How it "knows" what girls we like, and makes them like us as much as we like them. It still seems very late night infomercially to me, lol. No idea how that happens. I always seem to say "we'll see, when I run the next version" over and over, but...we'll see what happens when I run the next version!

Most of the dudes in this forum don't understand women at all. They don't care about looks, they care about the way things make them feel. An 'attractive' guy is attractive because his physical attributes make a woman feel some type of way that's positive on a primal level, 'good hunter/good gatherer/leadership' etc. With very little exception, an average looking guy (myself for instance) is capable of generating similar feelings or emotions within women, regardless whether they'd normally consider me their type, I exclusively have hardly ever had the benefit of using physical characteristics, it's about the energy you project, learning how to push back, how to pull, and basically navigating what is a rather complex landscape. Don't let people tell you that you need to become an asshole, no figure out how to be yourself in a way that's interesting, how to embody your personal essence in a way that attracts what it is you're looking for. Of course it's easier for tall,buff dudes, that's animal stuff, we have the ability to use our higher brain functions to give us an edge. Everyone has a shortcoming, yet in all actuality those are simply excuses. I think the first thing to do would be figuring out what it is you're passionate about, and figure out how to either meet females that have the same passion, or figure out how to express yourself in an interesting way about it in an engaging way. This would be a good start, the simple fact is, most dudes can't hold a conversation to save their lives, but again women are MENTAL, they require time and elbow grease yo~, but if you're looking for quality and companionship, what have you got to lose?

And let me make another point that people who don't actually understand female psyches probably miss, women will directly rationalize their attraction to THEMSELVES, whether or not those reasons are actually based in reality. Once it's there, its there. I've met women that like big guys, as in not muscular big but actually chubby dudes, why? "He is like a big teddy bear", or guys who are overly hairy, "It's manly for a guy to have a hairy chest", the key is in reality it doesn't actually matter about the guy's characteristics, they simply justify their attraction for whoever makes them feel attracted. Period. So here's what i'd say to anyone having trouble, figure out what makes you 'special' and learn how to channel that, it's your angle. You don't need money, height, or good looks to get laid, you simply need to be interesting in a way that stimulates a woman's mind, and having a bit of an edge helps, but again, the key is finding your natural way of representing your own primal self. Self-awareness is key to basically anything. That's my two cents on it, let it marinate.

[AlphaRomeo]

I've used the program for two years, since V2.2. Was the funny/nice/charming guy, still am viewed as such. Don't see any sexual attraction from women, no sexual escalation from them. I either have gotten LJBF, or excuses when asking them out and trying to take initiative because they weren't approaching me like design goal so I tried to do something. Or ghosting me when I'd text them to go out if I had their number. Clearly not high value, or sexually attractive. Even after two years of listening. Never mind my old SM3 run etc. I guess it's no surprise why I basically don't bother anymore with women, now that I went back and read that.

Makes it hard to get behind the program to be honest, not seeing anything happen to me in reality, after two years, that makes me stop and say "wow, this thing is for real!". It's why I'm still very skeptical of it. Since it can't change our physical appearance and face to be a "hot guy", not sure what it does to somehow make women we are attracted to, attracted to us. No idea how that exactly is supposed to work in reality. How it "knows" what girls we like, and makes them like us as much as we like them. It still seems very late night infomercially to me, lol. No idea how that happens. I always seem to say "we'll see, when I run the next version" over and over, but...we'll see what happens when I run the next version!

Most of the dudes in this forum don't understand women at all. They don't care about looks, they care about the way things make them feel. An 'attractive' guy is attractive because his physical attributes make a woman feel some type of way that's positive on a primal level, 'good hunter/good gatherer/leadership' etc. With very little exception, an average looking guy (myself for instance) is capable of generating similar feelings or emotions within women, regardless whether they'd normally consider me their type, I exclusively have hardly ever had the benefit of using physical characteristics, it's about the energy you project, learning how to push back, how to pull, and basically navigating what is a rather complex landscape. Don't let people tell you that you need to become an asshole, no figure out how to be yourself in a way that's interesting, how to embody your personal essence in a way that attracts what it is you're looking for. Of course it's easier for tall,buff dudes, that's animal stuff, we have the ability to use our higher brain functions to give us an edge. Everyone has a shortcoming, yet in all actuality those are simply excuses. I think the first thing to do would be figuring out what it is you're passionate about, and figure out how to either meet females that have the same passion, or figure out how to express yourself in an interesting way about it in an engaging way. This would be a good start, the simple fact is, most dudes can't hold a conversation to save their lives, but again women are MENTAL, they require time and elbow grease yo~, but if you're looking for quality and companionship, what have you got to lose?

And let me make another point that people who don't actually understand female psyches probably miss, women will directly rationalize their attraction to THEMSELVES, whether or not those reasons are actually based in reality. Once it's there, its there. I've met women that like big guys, as in not muscular big but actually chubby dudes, why? "He is like a big teddy bear", or guys who are overly hairy, "It's manly for a guy to have a hairy chest", the key is in reality it doesn't actually matter about the guy's characteristics, they simply justify their attraction for whoever makes them feel attracted. Period. So here's what i'd say to anyone having trouble, figure out what makes you 'special' and learn how to channel that, it's your angle. You don't need money, height, or good looks to get laid, you simply need to be interesting in a way that stimulates a woman's mind, and having a bit of an edge helps, but again, the key is finding your natural way of representing your own primal self. Self-awareness is key to basically anything. That's my two cents on it, let it marinate.

Ain´t that the truth. There is more insight into women´s mind in this post that I have read in a long time in this forum.

[MasterEnki]

I've used the program for two years, since V2.2. Was the funny/nice/charming guy, still am viewed as such. Don't see any sexual attraction from women, no sexual escalation from them. I either have gotten LJBF, or excuses when asking them out and trying to take initiative because they weren't approaching me like design goal so I tried to do something. Or ghosting me when I'd text them to go out if I had their number. Clearly not high value, or sexually attractive. Even after two years of listening. Never mind my old SM3 run etc. I guess it's no surprise why I basically don't bother anymore with women, now that I went back and read that.

Makes it hard to get behind the program to be honest, not seeing anything happen to me in reality, after two years, that makes me stop and say "wow, this thing is for real!". It's why I'm still very skeptical of it. Since it can't change our physical appearance and face to be a "hot guy", not sure what it does to somehow make women we are attracted to, attracted to us. No idea how that exactly is supposed to work in reality. How it "knows" what girls we like, and makes them like us as much as we like them. It still seems very late night infomercially to me, lol. No idea how that happens. I always seem to say "we'll see, when I run the next version" over and over, but...we'll see what happens when I run the next version!

Most of the dudes in this forum don't understand women at all. They don't care about looks, they care about the way things make them feel. An 'attractive' guy is attractive because his physical attributes make a woman feel some type of way that's positive on a primal level, 'good hunter/good gatherer/leadership' etc. With very little exception, an average looking guy (myself for instance) is capable of generating similar feelings or emotions within women, regardless whether they'd normally consider me their type, I exclusively have hardly ever had the benefit of using physical characteristics, it's about the energy you project, learning how to push back, how to pull, and basically navigating what is a rather complex landscape. Don't let people tell you that you need to become an asshole, no figure out how to be yourself in a way that's interesting, how to embody your personal essence in a way that attracts what it is you're looking for. Of course it's easier for tall,buff dudes, that's animal stuff, we have the ability to use our higher brain functions to give us an edge. Everyone has a shortcoming, yet in all actuality those are simply excuses. I think the first thing to do would be figuring out what it is you're passionate about, and figure out how to either meet females that have the same passion, or figure out how to express yourself in an interesting way about it in an engaging way. This would be a good start, the simple fact is, most dudes can't hold a conversation to save their lives, but again women are MENTAL, they require time and elbow grease yo~, but if you're looking for quality and companionship, what have you got to lose?

And let me make another point that people who don't actually understand female psyches probably miss, women will directly rationalize their attraction to THEMSELVES, whether or not those reasons are actually based in reality. Once it's there, its there. I've met women that like big guys, as in not muscular big but actually chubby dudes, why? "He is like a big teddy bear", or guys who are overly hairy, "It's manly for a guy to have a hairy chest", the key is in reality it doesn't actually matter about the guy's characteristics, they simply justify their attraction for whoever makes them feel attracted. Period. So here's what i'd say to anyone having trouble, figure out what makes you 'special' and learn how to channel that, it's your angle. You don't need money, height, or good looks to get laid, you simply need to be interesting in a way that stimulates a woman's mind, and having a bit of an edge helps, but again, the key is finding your natural way of representing your own primal self. Self-awareness is key to basically anything. That's my two cents on it, let it marinate.

Very good points.

Especially that point about what makes you special... Strength, Perception, Endurance, Charisma, Intelligence, Agility and Luck

[DarkPlouf]

They don't care about looks, they care about the way things make them feel. An 'attractive' guy is attractive because his physical attributes make a woman feel some type of way that's positive on a primal level

Well, doesn't that just confirm that they do care about looks though? If being attractive make them "feel" good, then indirectly they do care about it.
The thing is, looks is the first thing people feel from another human being. And some women stay just at that level. They see a hot guy, and their automatic response is being attracted to him.
Now, what happens when a guy doesn't have looks? He has to display something else of value and this needs involvement from the women. Just this fact that disqualifies a good chunk of women. Many of them instantly put you on the "no way in a billion years" case from the first impressions of you.
And that's where I agree with you about passion. Sure, with passion and everything you said you can put on display less blatant qualities and make a woman feel good, despite your look, but again, that requires some involvement from them.
When women don't even give you the chance to prove yourself, like when they instant-ghost you, you're doomed.

But even about finding a passion and enrolling women with the same interests, I found out something else missed. When I was doing that I ended up with friends, not FWB or potential GF. So probably what missed was being perceived as sexy.
You may be all passionate and special and interesting like you want, if you lack any sexiness I doubt you'll get that far.

[thor2014]

Charisma and confidence do play a role in attracting hot women. However the two main factors that get women to sleep with you are status and looks. Charisma and confidence with women are icing on the cake.

Status + Looks = No need to talk so much I have already decided I want to sleep with you.

I have a far easier time sleeping with hotties in the balkans because I am an expat and seen as high value plus I have a latino look which stands out a mile away. All the rest of the guys are caucasian which makes up this homogenous gene pool.

If I was in London it would not be easy to sleep with the hottest women. I mean its not impossible but alot more difficult. Despite me having the confidence and charisma.

[AriGold]

Charisma and confidence do play a role in attracting hot women. However the two main factors that get women to sleep with you are status and looks. Charisma and confidence with women are icing on the cake.

Status + Looks = No need to talk so much I have already decided I want to sleep with you.

I have a far easier time sleeping with hotties in the balkans because I am an expat and seen as high value plus I have a latino look which stands out a mile away. All the rest of the guys are caucasian which makes up this homogenous gene pool.

If I was in London it would not be easy to sleep with the hottest women. I mean its not impossible but alot more difficult. Despite me having the confidence and charisma.

Status and looks? Charisma and confidence are not important?

Can you look good without charisma and confidence? Yes.
Can you have a high status without confidence and charisma? No.

Let's say you get into a new town and you are all alone. No friends. You interact with women. How do they see status? By the way you act, what comes down to confidence and charisma.

By the way, don't forget authenticity. You can feel and act confident for some time (gaming) but when you are stressed or not focused or you don't know how to act, then it is no longer continuous, it then seems strange. That is the moment when you lose a girl when before she seemed and she was a safe catch.
Just like you have a great girl, everything is going great and in one moment she seems very strange, then you might be careful if she is one of the crazy persons. It happens again and you start looking for another woman.

[AriGold]

Maybe it's nothing new but in my opinion procrastination comes from fear of failure and victim thinking.
Motivation might not be enough. Maybe in "overcome procrastination" is already something in it to change the identity from "victim" to "free". But changing the identity might take a longer time.

[AwesomeYoungDude]

Happy Birthday Shannon.
Best Wishes

[AriGold]

Happy birthday from me too.
Thanks for all the subliminals and your wisdom.

[Kol]

Happy birthday Shannon!

[AlphaRomeo]

Happy birthday Shannon, have a great one! And thank you once again for all the work, passion, wisdom, tears, sweat and blood (well, hopefully not literally) etc. that you put into producing the best subliminals in the world. Can´t wait to see what the future holds for all of us subwise...is that a word? Well now it is lol.