DMSI 3.1

[Duke.Togo]

That doesn't make sense.

Objects in your home are just objects so they have no choice in the matter and the 'partners' play a role in it to, they aren't just sitting there and someone comes in and takes them 'against their will' so to speak.

Yes, of course, it's not against their will.
But it doesn't make it any more "noble" to hit on someone even if it's something they want. I mean you can get over materialistic things, they are just objects after all. But to that person, you have made a commitment, a vow to stay together "until death do us part". First of all the partners should respect that, love isn't about everything is perfect. It's about staying together when life is at is toughest and easiest point. But I also think other people, outside this relationship, should respect that. That relationship is supposed to be the most valuable thing one can have. But now we just settle things with getting 50/50 of each other belongings, AND one looses the partner.

We punish people for stealing objects, but we don't punish people who steal our partners (even if they do have a part in it). Now I am not saying we should punish anyone hitting on married people. I'm simply making it clear how little this society actually seem to value marriage/love. When it's just something that can be fixed with writing on some papers. This is what I think is wrong.

I think I understand the point you're trying to get to.

I'll say this much. I don't think people ever get into a marriage with the intention of it falling apart. Just as there are many marriages that are broken, there are several that aren't.

The reasons for why a marriage breaks is also many.

Having strong ideals to live by is noble. It means that you have old fashioned beliefs and in this day and age, that's rare.

I hope you do find someone that you love and can grow old with. And if that's what you truly want, I believe you will have it.

I would just keep in mind that marriage is a partnership, not an ownership.

[Duke.Togo]

Hey man! first i would thank you for this awsome post and for sharing your experiances, you seem pretty solid and desicive from what i have seem. I want to give my two cents about love.

I have never had a real love for anyone beside my family members. Im not saying this in a bad way this is just who i am. I was always the quiet, smart and detached one since young age. All the women i "felt" i had a connection to was only because of i was beta and i wanted them to acknowlidge my existance. Im 23 and i have never been in a relationship, yet at the same time i don't think i will fall "in love" with someone because my standards are quite high or im just that detached.

Maybe this is an intj thing i don't know. Im not against it though in fact i think that those who want love the least are those who need it the most. I could just never see myself with someone. That part of myself scares me of how cold i can be. If nobody is there for me when i need them the most then why would they deserve me when im at my best?

Women are emotional. If i hit the right notes, i can get them. In that sense how is any of it real? Chaosvergn calls this "every interaction is a transaction"

Had i stayed beta i might have found love. Now i just know better. Even with people today most of my friendships are shallow. Im always there for them but in the end they just take me for granted. Maybe im just too mature for my age or just that im hangingout with the wrong crowd.

Maybe its because i have abandonment issues. Idk i just see people as chess pieces i can move around however i want when im in control. I like to think that im not that guy but at the same time i can't deny that part of myself. I just can't put myself out there and be vaulnrable. Nobody cares even if i do care about them.

When im weak i get ignored, when im strong they get chummy! That is especially true when it comes to women. They don't give a ####! It's all about what they can get. Everybody is like that.

Hey Illumi, so I wanted to give your post a reply, because there were several things you stated.

Before I do reply though, I want to state that my response to you is not meant as an attack, it is just my own opinions and observations.

Like you, I am an INTJ as well. I actually took the Myers-Briggs test several times throughout my twenties, and I took several variations of the test. My results were always the same, so I have come to accept that that is my personality archetype. That being said, I don't really think a test can be an all encompassing validation of this is who you are.

So you mentioned that had you still been beta, you would have found love already. So, as an alpha, love isn't a reality?

Also, you mentioned something that Chaos once said about how if you hit the right notes, you can get a girl. And, how you can play people like chess pieces.

Ultimately both statements say the same thing.

Here's the thing about all of that. I agree, with both of your statements.

But, let me ask you, what do you get out of living life like that?

The hitting the right notes, that's something that PUA material is built on isn't it. Say the right order of things in the right sequence and you've got yourself the girl.

There's another term for that. It's called running a con.

The problem with running a con is, you always have to run another one and another one after that. It's not something that you can maintain for an extended period of time.

Same thing with manipulating people. That's akin to mental masturbation. What does it prove. That people are gullible? That your intelligence is far greater than theirs?

With all that superiority though, at the end of the day, you're still alone. Now, granted, we're all alone in life. But, you only get one chance at this. There is no reboot.

I'm not sure if I would want to look back at my life and say, "yeah, I manipulated people into doing everything I wanted them to. I lived a really fulfilled life."

If you do have all of that ability and brain power, why not use it to manipulate a solution to a problem that is plaguing the world?

Going back to Chaos's every interaction is a transaction - if you want to know the core aspects of where that term comes from, I would read Eric Berne's Transactional Analysis. He's the father of Transactional Psychology.

I'll close out my post with a final thought. From what I have read from your posts, you're still a virgin. I have probably, at this point in my life, slept with about a 100 women.

Being on this side of it, my last few posts were there to tell folks, that sex for the sake of sex is an empty transaction. You gain nothing more from it. Sex with someone you love, will always be more meaningful, and everyone should allow themselves to experience that.

You're an adult, I'll let you figure the rest of it out.

Just don't wear a label of being a beta, alpha, or an INTJ as an identification badge. Let who you are and your actions define yourself.

[ReeZoX]

I think I understand the point you're trying to get to.

I'll say this much. I don't think people ever get into a marriage with the intention of it falling apart. Just as there are many marriages that are broken, there are several that aren't.

I would just keep in mind that marriage is a partnership, not an ownership.

I agree, but most people fail to recognize that while intending for it not to break, one must care for it. Nurture it. Else it will eventually break, one way or another.

Absolutely, but it also kinda is. The one where I give myself to a woman and this woman gives herself to me.
This is not the slave type of ownership, and it's not one I can explain either. But I hope I get my point across anyway, at the very least a part of it

[Illumi]

Hey Duke! I only wanted to hear your opinion about i how view love and friendship at the moment and wanted you to critique it. I never even condsiderd your post as an attack, i wanted to hear your opinion my side of the story i guess. About the intj thing im not labling myself, its just the closest thing so far that could resemble me. Also im not that consered about the alpha beta thing i only used the termonoligy for the lack of better choice of words. Also im not going around thinking i should manipulate everyone, its my own way to backlash at the world because im not fully able to understand it. Also im i dont believe in pua and what not!

Well im not that good at articulating so i should have wrote that post a little differently i guess? :S but yeah thanks for the responce anyhows

About only betas finding love, i meant that it would be easier for a beta to find love. Since im no longer beta i have not yet found the type of love an alpha would have so i would have a higher chance finding it as a beta.

[Duke.Togo]

Hey Duke! I only wanted to hear your opinion about i how view love and friendship at the moment and wanted you to critique it. I never even condsiderd your post as an attack, i wanted to hear your opinion my side of the story i guess. About the intj thing im not labling myself, its just the closest thing so far that could resemble me. Also im not that consered about the alpha beta thing i only used the termonoligy for the lack of better choice of words. Also im not going around thinking i should manipulate everyone, its my own way to backlash at the world because im not fully able to understand it. Also im i dont believe in pua and what not!

Well im not that good at articulating so i should have wrote that post a little differently i guess? :S but yeah thanks for the responce anyhows

About only betas finding love, i meant that it would be easier for a beta to find love. Since im no longer beta i have not yet found the type of love an alpha would have so i would have a higher chance finding it as a beta.

Hey Illumi, I'm glad that you didn't perceive what I said as malicious or an attack. The thing with writing is, what I want to convey and how I mean to say it, doesn't always come across.

I also know that English isn't your first language, and so much of what you meant and how I construe that meaning can be mixed.

For instance, I now understand what you meant about being beta and finding love.

And I agree, you shouldn't necessarily settle when it comes to love. But, and I mean this in the best way possible, I think you should keep your options open as well.

There are a bevy of women out there who are intelligent and fun.

A lot of who I am today is because of the relationships that I had and grew from. The best parts of me can't be found on a forum, but, everything I learned about accepting people for who they are, allowing someone to get close, and sharing parts of myself, happened throughout my previous relationships.

This is why I consider myself such a fortunate person. I was very lucky to have had the people in my life that I had.

I always hope that everyone gets to experience something similar in their lives.

I also know that where you live, culturally, things are different. But, people are generally the same.

I hope things work out between you and the redhead. It seems like you really like her. Perhaps you should give it an honest attempt and see where it goes.

I also wanted to apologize, as I feel by not understanding you, I responded harshly to your previous post.

Find your happiness brother...

[Illumi]

Thank you. Your words have taken me one step closer towards being in the right direction. Im still human at heart and even though i have mostly dealt with toxic people im still me. I do believe that there are still genuinly good people left in the world even though i have not met alot of them. Thank you for reminding me.

Also no need to apologize. My thoughts were scrambled when i wrote that post. Im happy that you have met good people who shaped your life to the better.

[Dr. Strangelove]

There is so much good stuff going on here, I’ll make myself a bowl of popcorn to read it all tonight.

Lmao like ruining a family's harmony and trust isn't ducked up. Cmon... u too sub privileged

I didn’t want this comment to go unnoticed because it raises a question of user’s accountability.

I can’t say I’ve stepped on too may toes in the past; only once I knew her guy and felt bad afterwards and obsessed over guilt. Then I realized it didn’t really mean anything to me or her; it was done to me once and I learned not to trust any girl and suck it up and move on, and not seek revenge. I’ve learned how to trust again when I realized I was making myself unavailable.

That one time I was cheated on, was when I got clingy and jealous. On the other side, when I had a girlfriend and had other girls approaching me, she was super loyal.

That’s the background to what happened a few weeks ago, I made out with a girl I met at the club; in a dark corner (bless them) she had a feel of me, and I had a feel of her; she got antsy when I put my hand inside her knickers. It happens. Minutes before that, she saw I had a ring on, and announced she was engaged to someone. After that, bam. Making out is all that happened; marking progress in DMSI, this is way beyond seeing her and not noticing connection, and doing nothing; beyond just chatting; a little short of taking her out of the club, to find a quiet place with a bed. She wouldn’t have done it. Later I thought about what a funny and exciting girl she is, but regret for not taking it further on one side, or feeling sorry for her guy on the other, didn’t linger much. I don’t know anything about her or him, nor I care to find out. Even if the other guy was on the fence about her, he’d flip if he found out. It sucks for him. I don’t know what she’s thinking either, if she thinks it’s a bit of fun like I do, then all the world is green.

My wifey was there when a girl approached me at NYE party and then asked if I’d come with her, because her friend “wanted to have a photo with me”. I declined. Wifey has thought of this a few weeks ago, and asked me directly - what would have happened if she wasn’t there? I said I would have followed the girl. She asked me what then? I said I’d talk to her friend. What then? I’d have photo with her and her friend. What then? We’d have a drink. This game of direct questions and cheeky answers turned into foreplay, which turned into sex. She was the other girl, and we had sex as if I was someone she just met that night, and decided on the spot she had to have him. See how that works? I know how to play it, but I don’t fully understand it.

Also she arranged us to have threesome with her hot girlfriend from overseas. I haven’t asked her to do this again, or had a chance to introduce anyone to her like this, this is largely due to feeling less than top dog while healing is kicking my ass. I can’t pull it off now, I don’t have enough faith in myself. If I was running AM still, I would. Note, this isn’t saying that I wouldn’t end up divorced if I tried and went all out and let her know this is how it will be, but I am prepared to have that if I want to live this way. Maybe this is the smart way; she knows, but she doesn’t. But I really like those threesomes…

To flip the table over, I absolutely trust her; she isn’t messing me around with anyone else. If rumours say she is, and she says she isn’t, then she isn’t. Even if someone sends me pictures of her with another guy, and she says it isn’t true and she loves me, then that’s all there is to it. That’s about the extent of my confidence and trust in her. She’s beautiful, I’ll never give up on her out of insecurity or jealousy, but she’s free to go if she wants to, as I am. None of this says I’d ever leave my kids behind, though.

So going back to original question, messing with someone else’s girlfriend; each will make up their mind to their conscience and experience. With enough clearing, I’d like to think all users will come to a conclusion of believing in abundance of women, in which case they don’t need to scratch the itch with the first girl who gives them the eye, especially if there are complications involved. Or feel compelled to prove they’re a better man than her guy is. Why that one, when there are other ones with no attachments? A filter can also be introduced, so it filters out potential targets in committed relationships, if there is genuine interest to suggest to Shannon.

On DMSI I’ve seen a girl looking and smiling at me and her guy noticing and staring at her, not me. There will be more of this happening to everyone on DMSI. Personally, I’m not interested in girls with boyfriends unless they aggressively pursue me. One from the club was a one-off. :angel:

Edit: Sorry for hijacking your thread Duke!

[Duke.Togo]

There is so much good stuff going on here, I’ll make myself a bowl of popcorn to read it all tonight.

Lmao like ruining a family's harmony and trust isn't ducked up. Cmon... u too sub privileged

I didn’t want this comment to go unnoticed because it raises a question of user’s accountability.

I can’t say I’ve stepped on too may toes in the past; only once I knew her guy and felt bad afterwards and obsessed over guilt. Then I realized it didn’t really mean anything to me or her; it was done to me once and I learned not to trust any girl and suck it up and move on, and not seek revenge. I’ve learned how to trust again when I realized I was making myself unavailable.

That one time I was cheated on, was when I got clingy and jealous. On the other side, when I had a girlfriend and had other girls approaching me, she was super loyal.

That’s the background to what happened a few weeks ago, I made out with a girl I met at the club; in a dark corner (bless them) she had a feel of me, and I had a feel of her; she got antsy when I put my hand inside her knickers. It happens. Minutes before that, she saw I had a ring on, and announced she was engaged to someone. After that, bam. Making out is all that happened; marking progress in DMSI, this is way beyond seeing her and not noticing connection, and doing nothing; beyond just chatting; a little short of taking her out of the club, to find a quiet place with a bed. She wouldn’t have done it. Later I thought about what a funny and exciting girl she is, but regret for not taking it further on one side, or feeling sorry for her guy on the other, didn’t linger much. I don’t know anything about her or him, nor I care to find out. Even if the other guy was on the fence about her, he’d flip if he found out. It sucks for him. I don’t know what she’s thinking either, if she thinks it’s a bit of fun like I do, then all the world is green.

My wifey was there when a girl approached me at NYE party and then asked if I’d come with her, because her friend “wanted to have a photo with me”. I declined. Wifey has thought of this a few weeks ago, and asked me directly - what would have happened if she wasn’t there? I said I would have followed the girl. She asked me what then? I said I’d talk to her friend. What then? I’d have photo with her and her friend. What then? We’d have a drink. This game of direct questions and cheeky answers turned into foreplay, which turned into sex. She was the other girl, and we had sex as if I was someone she just met that night, and decided on the spot she had to have him. See how that works? I know how to play it, but I don’t fully understand it.

Also she arranged us to have threesome with her hot girlfriend from overseas. I haven’t asked her to do this again, or had a chance to introduce anyone to her like this, this is largely due to feeling less than top dog while healing is kicking my ass. I can’t pull it off now, I don’t have enough faith in myself. If I was running AM still, I would. Note, this isn’t saying that I wouldn’t end up divorced if I tried and went all out and let her know this is how it will be, but I am prepared to have that if I want to live this way. Maybe this is the smart way; she knows, but she doesn’t. But I really like those threesomes…

To flip the table over, I absolutely trust her; she isn’t messing me around with anyone else. If rumours say she is, and she says she isn’t, then she isn’t. Even if someone sends me pictures of her with another guy, and she says it isn’t true and she loves me, then that’s all there is to it. That’s about the extent of my confidence and trust in her. She’s beautiful, I’ll never give up on her out of insecurity or jealousy, but she’s free to go if she wants to, as I am. None of this says I’d ever leave my kids behind, though.

So going back to original question, messing with someone else’s girlfriend; each will make up their mind to their conscience and experience. With enough clearing, I’d like to think all users will come to a conclusion of believing in abundance of women, in which case they don’t need to scratch the itch with the first girl who gives them the eye, especially if there are complications involved. Or feel compelled to prove they’re a better man than her guy is. Why that one, when there are other ones with no attachments? A filter can also be introduced, so it filters out potential targets in committed relationships, if there is genuine interest to suggest to Shannon.

On DMSI I’ve seen a girl looking and smiling at me and her guy noticing and staring at her, not me. There will be more of this happening to everyone on DMSI. Personally, I’m not interested in girls with boyfriends unless they aggressively pursue me. One from the club was a one-off. :angel:

Edit: Sorry for hijacking your thread Duke!

Brother, as far as I'm concerned, this thread is open space for the community. I learn from everyone here. Please post anything you want.

[blackwing Z]

"To flip the table over, I absolutely trust her; she isn’t messing me around with anyone else. If rumours say she is, and she says she isn’t, then she isn’t. Even if someone sends me pictures of her with another guy, and she says it isn’t true and she loves me, then that’s all there is to it. That’s about the extent of my confidence and trust in her. She’s beautiful, I’ll never give up on her out of insecurity or jealousy, but she’s free to go if she wants to, as I am. None of this says I’d ever leave my kids behind, though."

But this is not everyone... hence sub-priviledged.

[Benjamin]

Sub privilidged? I don't know where you pulled that from...

All this (whatever) privilidged crap..

[Darkness]

Could you please elaborate on what you mean by sub privilege?

[blackwing Z]

Not everybody has subs, therefore, having subs is a priviledge which gives you an advantage at dealing with otherwise difficult to deal with emotions/circumstances. Shielding, aura, ogsf, etc..

So as something may be easy for us now, it may not be for others.. and to simply brush it off as its no big deal... is not fair. We wouldnt want to be thrown in that position ourselves.

it's like telling a black person "dont worry about police, just be polite and respectful to them, you're overreacting". It is a whole different world for them.

[Benjamin]

Lets cut this talk here... as it has alot of potential of escalating to where we don't want it to go. And it looks like an attempt to stir up some kind of argument.

[Raykon]

Lets cut this talk here... as it has alot of potential of escalating to where we don't want it to go.

He is right though. Not everyone is as fortunate enough to discover subliminals. I feel bad that other people that need this help don't use it or don't believe it even if you try to help them.