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The problem with men explaining things (AF related) - massagemaggie - 08-22-2012
I understand there is a masculinism movement going on in here, and I fully agree with the sentiment behind it.
What I think I'm beginning to agree with more though, is that Shannon's programs (alpha male, alpha female) seem to transcend feminism or masculinism, the pushing against others or struggling for your rights, and be a means to become fully realized in oneself, independently. Independent of whatever is going on for other people. As a woman it's irrelevant if my father, my neighbour, the men in my city, my ex husband are mysoginistic in some way, I am who I am and the focus is on my own development and not on them. I'm finding the more you take the focus and the blame off of others, the more free you become and the need to struggle is eliminated.
This whole, "men are terrible" "women are evil and manipulative" argument has gotten old at this stage of human development and it's time to look in the mirror instead of pointing fingers.
http://www.motherjones.com/media/2012/08/problem-men-explaining-things-rebecca-solnit
A very amusing rendition of the same dynamic is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4oydSZTAns
This article was fascinating, and pointed out just how much Alpha Female has changed my life. I've always been one of those listeners, lol the amount of time I've spent listening to men tell me things surpasses any other kind of interaction I've had with them. Age does not matter. At one point, this kind of dynamic shaped and controlled every aspect of my life, when I was younger and still interested in being married to my husband.
Since AF, I understand and am fully aware when the above dynamic is happening... and yet I do not buy into it at all. I used to. It's extremely difficult for men or women to not be swayed by that kind of powerful dynamic, but I see it and am consciously aware of what is going on. Sometimes I'll play along, out of curiosity, politeness, diplomacy (a lot of these people are clients, and I appreciate their business very much) but I no longer am subjugated. That is 100 percent AF program conditioning. The best thing about it is that there is no defensiveness on my part because there is no power struggle. Whatever role I've chosen to play here, it was a choice and I am in control of myself, and therefore not threatened.
I think the alpha programs are brilliant for this, and for moving people past the immaturity and need to strikeback, be aggressively confrontational or defend against people who do not actually have any more power over you than you allow them to.
RE: The problem with men explaining things (AF related) - Ryan - 08-22-2012
Yes, these subs will help get you to a state where none of that matters anymore. However getting through to the point of ignoring and releasing that crap though (if it really bothered you)...that is one fun SOB ;P
Ryan
RE: The problem with men explaining things (AF related) - Benjamin - 08-22-2012
Hmm.. so she starts talking about basically how her opinions have been discounted just because she is a woman. But then goes on to say "and men criticize other mens work aswell" but it's only like a passing comment, like it doesn't really count.
It does look like after saying we should transcend this that the article you presented did present alot of the viewpoints of feminism that we should be transcending.
I am all for becoming fully realized, but you still can't totally ignore what is going on around you, when you see something so blatantly wrong then I don't feel you should ignore it because your standing on your own. That is one way where masculinity and femininity differs, a man sees something he doesn't like and does something about it, this doesn't mean every little thing, yes pick your battles. But if you constantly see things you hate and do nothing about it then it erodes your confidence as a man.
So I think it's more important knowing when to stand up and when to be independent in what your doing yourself and to ignore the other people.
One thing I find interesting that the word 'mysogonistic' is well known by everybody, but how come the reverse (I can't even think of the word which proves it) is not well known?
I have seen alot of talk of trancending gender, which I think is bullshit, gender is there for a reason and ignoring that instead of stepping into our power as a man or a woman (in different ways obviously) is only going to make us unhappy. I find it frustrating that there is all this equal rights crap when it suits them, but then they are quick to use the 'i'm a woman' thing.
Like when I did security some of these women would cause fights, try to attack me and instantly use the 'you can't do anything, i'm a girl' crap and would be shocked when I didn't care and physically removed them anyway. And on a similar note, I have no problem stepping into my role as a man, which is there for a reason and not a 'creation of society'. That if a woman i'm with is in trouble, getting attacked or whatever (and the women I end up with are NOT the ones who cause trouble so I would know it's something serious) I would have no problem stepping in and physically dealing with it. I would in no way go "oh equal rights" and let her deal with the guy attacking her.
So why should she have a problem in situations where it is needed to be quiet and let a man take control?
It's not popular opinion, but there is times when this is needed. And yes there is areas that I have no idea about that are more suited to women that I am okay with letting her handle.
Anyway, I am frustrated at the moment as I am on AM stage 1 so it probably comes through in my writing, but those are some of my thoughts on it.
-Ben
RE: The problem with men explaining things (AF related) - Shannon - 08-24-2012
Unreleased anger. Definitely. But remember that being angry is your right, and your downfall. It's a negative emotion, and in some cases necessary and healthy to express (get rid of), but when it comes down to it, getting angry at sexism against men OR women and reacting is usually only going to perpetuate it. That's why I am resisting "taking sides", even though I believe that men need to be taken care of right now to achieve balance. I don't want to perpetuate the problem by becoming overly polarized by it.
Stand for what is right, fair, just... but don't fall for the trap of becoming part of the problem. Or at least, try not to. Instead of "hitting back" and getting a "hit back" response that only gives you another reason to "hit back"... which leads in circles... what we need to do is start educating people to what is going on, and simply refusing to allow ourselves to be mistreated.
A woman is much less able to mistreat a man who isn't cooperating or playing the game. Same for women genuinely being mistreated by men. Personal empowerment and enlightenment is how we are going to eventually succeed in outgrowing this crap. The only time hitting back works at all is if you can manage massive retaliation, and then all you've done is generated control through fear.
An example of this would be one of my ex-fiances who at one point began throwing things at me, including scissors, knives, chairs, pens, and pretty much whatever else came to hand when she got angry. She would verbally and emotionally abuse me, also, and it was escalating. I refused to return her responses because I have better things to do with my time than be violent, or spend time in jail. But it kept escalating, until one day I realized... she was trying to push me until I lost it and beat her ass. And I came real close, once, believe me. But instead of taking the bait, I moved out of the apartment I was living in, and paying for, and left. She had nowhere to go, so I basically gave her my apartment, even though I was the one being abused, and moved back in with my mother.
I refused to play the game. I refused to respond with violence. I refused to let myself become violent. I refused to allow myself to be abused like that anymore.
You'd think I'd have gotten thanks from her parents for not putting their daughter in the hospital or the grave for how she was treating me, too, but of course she lied and they believed her, and instead of being thanked, they believe to this day that I beat her up and then abandoned her. Her father is a psychology professional in the field of counseling. He knows she has BPD... he knows she can't tell the truth to save her life... he knows how she manipulates people... he even told me while we were dating that I should run for the hills because of those things... but come the day we separated, he didn't even bother to ask me what happened. He blindly believed her and her story of me beating her and then abandoning her.
And that is a big part of why I am so adamant about men having self control and standards when it comes to women. Had I valued myself properly, I would never have even started dating her. I would never have put up with her lies... or cheating... or her physical abuse, mental abuse, emotional abuse... for one day. I didn't value myself properly back then, though, and it went on like that for four years instead.
Nobody is going to value you if you don't. Man or woman, it doesn't matter. It's your responsibility to make the choices that will keep you where you need to be in life. AM helped me tremendously to get out of that relationship by making me understand that I deserved better than that. I hope everyone who uses AM or AF gets the same out of it.
By the way, Ben, the opposite of "misogyny" is "misandry". Gyno- is the prefix meaning "female" and "Andro-" means male.