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Title: shielding and health
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#15
(03-17-2020, 09:31 AM)Shannon Wrote: We are neither interested in being scammed or taking advantage of you all.  The reason I did not enshrine a "no refunds on upgrade" rule in the refund policy is that when I thought about it, it isn't that simple.  What seems most reasonable to me is something like this: for any copy of a program purchased X number of weeks before the upgrade, you can apply Y amount of the purchase price of the old version to a discount for the upgrade.

I don't know if we can do multiple options with or without refund option, but I would rather not have no refund option.  I'm thinking 2-4 weeks before the release of the new program, and the discount would be the price of the older version, or maybe 90 or 80% of it.  The middle ground would be 3 weeks, and 90% of the older program's price as the upgrade discount.  Thoughts?

Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. I didn't mean that somebody gets scammed or something like that.

It was more meant like a choice:
Option (a) "you get 25 percent discount, because you already own the former product and we appreciate your trust in our product series"
Option (b) "you get 40 percent discount, because you already own the former product and we appreciate your trust in our product series. with choosing the extra 15 percent off you also choose to have no refund option for this product."

The percentages are of course open to be changed how you would like them.
But if I as a product owner of the previous edition don't get any discount on the product that comes out later on, I'm not happy. This does not in any way mean that I would not call it fair. There was a price and I chose to pay it. Then there is another follow up product and I don't get any discount if I already paid the development by buying the previous product. If it continues to be like this, I won't buy into products until I'm completely sure they work for 90% of people.

Option B is not there to make you lose money, it is there to have money to plan, this income is then fixed and in "no refund"-area.

Also making these options available for like the first 14 days of a new product launch will bring customers in and choose fast. There is no "I still have a discount code here since x months or years", it is a quick time where people buy with discount or not. It is a time where nobody knows yet how it performs, but people who have trust in you and want to support you can do that.

I hope this time I explained it better. I don't want you to lose or the customers to lose, I want it to be a good experience for all of us. It is also not about right and wrong, just about options. You can think about it, it's no hurry. Just wanted to help and bring ideas.
 
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#16
I appreciate your input. Thanks for taking the time to explain it further. I'll think on it.
Subliminal Audio Specialist & Administrator

The scientist has a question to find an answer for. The pseudo-scientist has an answer to find a question for. ~ "Failure is the path of least persistence." - Chinese Fortune Cookie ~ Logic left. Emotion right. But thinking, straight ahead. ~ Sperate supra omnia in valorem. (The value of trust is above all else.) ~ Meowsomeness!
 
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#17
I’m not so much into the discussion about discounts and free upgrades for the new MIR version, because it doesn’t seem appropriate for a program that came out a long time ago.

But there is something else I’d like to know – the approximate price of the new version.
And: Will 2.1 still be available after the release of 3?

Because: Let’s assume the new features will raise the cost a lot (I have absolutely no idea what that means, but the improvement of the sub itself seems to be huge), and at the same time 2.1 will not be available anymore, then I might be left without any buying option for the moment …?
 
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#18
(03-24-2020, 10:14 PM)marykate Wrote: I’m not so much into the discussion about discounts and free upgrades for the new MIR version, because it doesn’t seem appropriate for a program that came out a long time ago.

But there is something else I’d like to know – the approximate price of the new version.
And: Will 2.1 still be available after the release of 3?

Because: Let’s assume the new features will raise the cost a lot (I have absolutely no idea what that means, but the improvement of the sub itself seems to be huge), and at the same time 2.1 will not be available anymore, then I might be left without any buying option for the moment …?

Older versions of products are generally replaced.  

MIR 2.1 is a 5.5G sub, and is therefore priced at the 5.5G price of $114.95.  

MIR 3.0 will be 5.75G.  Shannon has not yet increased the price for 5.75G from $114.95, so the price would be the same (unless he raises the price of 5.75G beforehand).
 
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#19
(03-25-2020, 05:28 AM)RTBoss Wrote:
(03-24-2020, 10:14 PM)marykate Wrote: I’m not so much into the discussion about discounts and free upgrades for the new MIR version, because it doesn’t seem appropriate for a program that came out a long time ago.

But there is something else I’d like to know – the approximate price of the new version.
And: Will 2.1 still be available after the release of 3?

Because: Let’s assume the new features will raise the cost a lot (I have absolutely no idea what that means, but the improvement of the sub itself seems to be huge), and at the same time 2.1 will not be available anymore, then I might be left without any buying option for the moment …?

Older versions of products are generally replaced.  

MIR 2.1 is a 5.5G sub, and is therefore priced at the 5.5G price of $114.95.  

MIR 3.0 will be 5.75G.  Shannon has not yet increased the price for 5.75G from $114.95, so the price would be the same (unless he raises the price of 5.75G beforehand).

Right now is not the time to be raising prices.  So MIR 3.0 will be released at $114.95 a copy, and when things are favorable, then I will deal with price changes.  Since v2.1 is so much less advanced, and the same price, why would people want it after v3 is released?  The only point for keeping it is, "We know what it can and cannot do."  

So since the price isn't going up, and the program has gotten so much more advanced, powerful, complex, capable... I don't see a reason to keep v2.1 available after 3.0 is released.
Subliminal Audio Specialist & Administrator

The scientist has a question to find an answer for. The pseudo-scientist has an answer to find a question for. ~ "Failure is the path of least persistence." - Chinese Fortune Cookie ~ Logic left. Emotion right. But thinking, straight ahead. ~ Sperate supra omnia in valorem. (The value of trust is above all else.) ~ Meowsomeness!
 
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#20
(03-17-2020, 04:06 AM)AriGold Wrote:
(03-17-2020, 12:08 AM)Healingtouch69 Wrote:
(03-15-2020, 04:26 PM)Shannon Wrote: Right.  Free upgrades do not bring in money.  MIR 2.1 is from several years ago, and is 5G at $89.95 a copy, if memory serves.  I have been doing research, experimentation and development ever since, and v3 is going to have 41 different goals (instead of 1, like v2.1 has); it will be based on some pretty deep research, instead of a general concept, as v2.1 is; and it will require me more than a month to build.  MIR 2.1 took me a day to build, and 2.0 took me three days.  V3 is two generations down the road from v2.1, and is therefore vastly more advanced, powerful and complex, which is why it's taken me years to develop and will require more than a month just to script and build.

If I were to give you a free upgrade from v2.1, that would mean I don't get paid for literally years of research, experimentation and development.  Some of that experimentation had be in life threatening situations as I tested how well MIR 2.1 worked. (Twice, specifically, I was at risk of my life ending in order to properly test the program.)  It would also mean that none of the work that I have done to advance the underlying technology from 5G to 5.5G to 5.75G gets paid for.

So no, no discounts and no free upgrades.  No upgrades for life.  Sorry, but we have to make a profit or nobody will be able to buy our products.  That is why I said above, decide now whether you want to buy v2.1 and have something at least, if worse comes to worst before I can finish v3, and then pay again for v3, or just wait and buy v3.

And by the way, to the general public, once v3 is released, there will be no refunds of V2.1.  Not pointing at anyone in specific, but I know some of you like to try to refund an older version to circumvent our rules and get a discount on a newer version.  We will not be allowing that anymore.  We must stay profitable or have no incentive or ability to keep going.  Remember that.


If I may ...I wouldn't expect free upgrades for life, and I doubt anyone else does. However it would make total sense from a customer service point of view to offer a free upgrade if a new version comes out within 30 days, just like most businesses offer a price protection for example. This way, the money that you would get 30 days from now comes into your pocket right this moment and perhaps, as a little reward for being an early bird, the buyer gets the new version at the price of the old version. This way you wouldnt have to waste time on processing returns. Or, if you really want, and it would still be good customer service, you could offer to upgrade buyers within a certain time period before the release of a new version just for the difference between the new and the old version. 

Otherwise, you will antagonize any buyer that buys the old version, and then a week or two later, finds out he has to pay again, and probably even more than the previous time, for a new version. That's definitely not going to bring any repeat customers, no matter how good your products are

That brings me to an interesting thought.
Why not have a limited time offer like "for 2 weeks after the product is out the old users can get it for 50% off" and the official announcement when it begins and when it ends is written in the forum in the news section. Also you could make it "choose 60% off if you agree for "no money back guarantee"
You have the following benefits:
- people can't complain that they have to pay full price if they already bought the previous program
- money comes rolling in early
- the offer is time limited, so it's not that people can use it years later
- more activity in the forum of certain people because they want to stay up to date
- keep early adaptors of your programs happy.

I would also change some of the free programs like ASC to "pay what it is worth to you". Maybe it is a nice marketing thing.

Since not all of us are monitoring what programs will be updated, I kind of agree with the discount that Shannon is proposing in that way even those who want the latest version will just have to wait and not having a feeling of buyer's remorse due to buying an older version.
"Nothing in the world can take the place of Persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent."
 
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#21
(03-17-2020, 09:31 AM)Shannon Wrote: We are neither interested in being scammed or taking advantage of you all.  The reason I did not enshrine a "no refunds on upgrade" rule in the refund policy is that when I thought about it, it isn't that simple.  What seems most reasonable to me is something like this: for any copy of a program purchased X number of weeks before the upgrade, you can apply Y amount of the purchase price of the old version to a discount for the upgrade.

I don't know if we can do multiple options with or without refund option, but I would rather not have no refund option.  I'm thinking 2-4 weeks before the release of the new program, and the discount would be the price of the older version, or maybe 90 or 80% of it.  The middle ground would be 3 weeks, and 90% of the older program's price as the upgrade discount.  Thoughts?

I think it’s perfect. I also think it should be 100%. You just announced it will be published for sure within weeks. You make the sale now and the customer gets to use the older sub for free for a few weeks, “losing” no money at the time of upgrading. Win win.
 
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#22
Quote:I would also change some of the free programs like ASC to "pay what it is worth to you". Maybe it is a nice marketing thing.


I love this. Neither side has anything to lose while the happy customer who can afford it will/might pay something for it. Which is fair because a lot of hard work and energy went into it. 

It would also be an interesting anthropological test.  Smile
 
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