RP Thread

[AmpersndThe2nd]

I don't actually think we are disagreeing too much on alot of what you've said.

The only part that it's difficult to expand on here is what you're saying about some men who are dressing up their views of Masculinity. Masculinity has very much been under attack, you even see things such as articles calling men who workout 'toxic masculine' and attacking any show of actual strength, while celebrating weakness.

I don't know exactly what you mean about 'socially maladjusted views' but again that's hard to expand on here, but my thought is that in a massively sick society being adjusted to their 'social views' is adjusting yourself to a certain sickness. But i'm guessing when you said that you mean things to a certain extreme, which is also partly the challenge I mentioned of "how do we balance this".

I'm guessing you're referring to levels such as Andrew Tate and further than that, who has alot of good Masculine Mindsets, but also some of the things he has done makes him a piece of shit as a person. I also think that 'bitter type' you're talking about could sum up the red pill movement. I was really into that years ago until I realized it was just a whole lot of guys angry about women, really hyping it up like all women are like that which isn't true.. and it was buying into my own anger so it felt good at the time. But I realized how unhealthy it was.

Yeah the last part, that's another thing actually.. the 'tolerant' society is only masquerading as tolerant, but it very much is not unless you are part of their special groups.

Funnily enough though I can come across as intolerant and they could easily accuse me of that, i'm able to have discussions about these kinds of things and have been around groups of people with different viewpoints without acting like a blue haired harpie type.

Whereas these so called 'tolerant' people cannot.

Additionally, I do not want to live in a society that activates its collective outrage and lashes out against a drawing of their favorite person; such a place is not 'tolerant', with results speaking for themselves. Our struggle is that without a hard moral line, or lacking a set of ethical precepts, we need to go through the trouble of piecing it together ourselves.

I think that actually sums it up well. That is the big problem, there is no baseline of morality or ethics anymore, it's almost just a free for all, accept and tolerate anything no matter what.. engage in pleasure and anything that can distract you as much as you want, you don't even have to stop yourself or have your own internal boundaries anymore, just forever engage in vice. That's also part of what's going on.

Anyway, i've gotta go do some Martial Arts training.

This is a continuation from my personal journal.

I'll add context. I was lost in the sauce on MGTOW and Red Pill content in 2012-2014. Stardust, Turd Flinging Monkey, and the like. It used to feel apolitical.
I've since learned that there is a built-in set of attitudes in beliefs from Red Pill to political views.
It starts with discontentment with women's behavior, then attributing our present-day society as the cause of these behaviors, then prescribing a traditionalist set of changes to fix them. Naturally, this has a particular political leaning.

I shook the last bits of this worldview in 2022, while running Overcoming Fear v.4. My theory is that I viewed women as the cause or contributor of deep anxieties, and that I resented them for it. Fear of growing old, fear of being lonely and alone, fear of rejection, fear of loss of respect. Knocking away these fears cleared out virtually all of my anger and resentment. So it's not necessarily the arguments that did it, but my emotional core that directed my attitudes.

Today, given that the RP has become mainstream, it feels very political. In fact, a lot of the arguments behind the RP make a lot more sense when framed through the lens of punishing women.

• Don't date a single mom? Serves her right for picking the wrong guy over me.
  
• The 'Wall'? Serves her right for ignoring me while in her prime.
  

This doesn't represent all of it, and women do pull a fair bit of BS that is not directly attributed to others. Ghosting, stringing along, deliberate friendzoning, lies and accusations. Acknowledging it is important to let others know that you live in reality. 

There are public videos of masculine pursuits being chastised. I wonder how much of it is effective, if it's coming from Tiktok accounts; this can open up a conversation about how much influence social media has on children and young adults.
Young men and boys need encouragement, direction, and purpose, just like everyone else; society does seem to view this as choosing which of the two wolves to feed (Team Woman or Team Man), where feeding the male side is maliciously taking away from the woman's side.

I'm also in favor of a society with as many resourceful, resilient, and self-sufficient people as there can be; we fail in raising teenagers in that direction, and those who turned out well either had good upbringings or are self-directed to be as such (my opinion). 

Okay. Enough context. 
Clarifying on men who are dressing up their views of Masculinity.

I get the sense that some men want women to fill up their weak areas, when those areas should be filled up by any functional adult.

• Can't work the washing machine or clothes drier?
  
• Won't cook a proper meal?
  
• Never scrubs their own toilets or mop the floor?
  
• Won't book their own dentist or doctor's appointments?
  
• Doesn't keep up on more than basic hygiene?
  
• Prefer to go drinking or game instead of fulfilling your household duties?
  

Wanting your woman to fill in those gaps, just because you're not practiced in doing so, is not masculinity (in my opinion). It's just finding someone to accommodate dysfunctional laziness. And to call out that dynamic is not 'attacking masculinity'. At the same time, there are legitimate attacks on masculinity, such as diffusing most male-centered traits (bravery, steadfast, integrity, ambition) into human traits.

Furthermore, there are a litany of widely-held attitudes in the RP that bely a set of anxieties that men hold that lead the figureheads to contort themselves to stay consistent.   

• A woman working a consistent job, enjoying her career, or striving to improve her career is "masculine" and not just deriving enjoyment from a craft or profession.
  
• The one-way open-ended relationship, where the man can step out because of "nature" and "biology" but women's nature is frowned upon and shamed.
  
• Women being "special" and "worth cherishing and protecting" as the pretense to locking away the women to domestic duties while men get to do all of the fun stuff.
  
• Women being facile, emotional and irrational thinkers, meaning that they can't (?) occupy the STEM professions. I was surrounded by women in medicine, and I'm surrounded by women in tech, and there's no problem. 
  
• At the same time, women are cold, calculated and opportunistic lovers (aka logical?), as though men are not behaving in this way when they cheat while in a monogamous marriage, for example. 
  
• A women who has ever had an OnlyFans, or proudly displays her sexuality, deserving the backlash of being undateble and unmarriageable. (again, consider the RP rough the framing of punishment).
  
• Female traits being typically attributed to all of the bad shit (cattiness, betrayal, drama, passive aggressiveness, cheating, yelling and shaming, lack of emotional control, getting upset in an argument). I know that I said male traits are being generalized, but a lot of men, especially male RP figureheads, engage in these 'feminine traits'.
  

There are a lot of directions I could take this, but I do wonder which forms of intolerance you'd like to both bring back and would be willing to live under. Not necessarily the ones that remain, but the ones we've gotten rid of.
We've had adultery laws, for example. I don't know what good they would do if we brought them back. Am open to discuss.

[Johannesbrst]

I find it easier to be in enough contact with yourself so you can sense what feels "right" and "wrong". In that way you don't need to adjust yourself to some ideology or anti-ideology, but can rely on your own judgement for your life. Thus also giving less energy to all this stuff, that's mostly (if not entirely) very shallow things that's just phrased in a way to sound profound. Better to read quality literature that has held the test of time, than to get sucked into the mantras of our time.

[AmpersndThe2nd]

I find it easier to be in enough contact with yourself so you can sense what feels "right" and "wrong". In that way you don't need to adjust yourself to some ideology or anti-ideology, but can rely on your own judgement for your life. Thus also giving less energy to all this stuff, that's mostly (if not entirely) very shallow things that's just phrased in a way to sound profound. Better to read quality literature that has held the test of time, than to get sucked into the mantras of our time.

To keep the conversation going, your advice is sound. I believe that your personal development is your limiter for other areas of life.
At the same time, it's general self-improvement advice; got any saucy and spicy takes about dating, the Red Pill, or ideologies in general?

[Johannesbrst]

I find it easier to be in enough contact with yourself so you can sense what feels "right" and "wrong". In that way you don't need to adjust yourself to some ideology or anti-ideology, but can rely on your own judgement for your life. Thus also giving less energy to all this stuff, that's mostly (if not entirely) very shallow things that's just phrased in a way to sound profound. Better to read quality literature that has held the test of time, than to get sucked into the mantras of our time.

To keep the conversation going, your advice is sound. I believe that your personal development is your limiter for other areas of life.
At the same time, it's general self-improvement advice; got any saucy and spicy takes about dating, the Red Pill, or ideologies in general?

Hm not sure that I do more than what you mention tries to emulate an emotional state and get people to act on you signaling things that aren't necessarily true about you. 

Most people probably would benefit from working on their inner state first before trying to get people to act in a way based on a prescripted way of your acting. 

Working on your emotional state let you live a life from a natural standpoint where you say, do and act on things that you feel, rather than what you have read you should do to get people to do X or Y.