Pimp/ Pick up Artist multistage-...

[TheRealJustin]

faux i am not frustrated i still get my chicks i am just complaining on a high level.... all i want here is to get shanon to make us a sub that will get us more vags.... about the am foundation i have postet something in my journal... it seems that guys here are measuring ones progress on the number of runthroughs someone has done, but i measure it on the external results and success someone gets even if internally he might come over as not stable, civilized or developed i just dont care

i am sure am, wm and sm are the best subs on the world but i am also sure they would have been better if shanon had made them with the help of a real pick up master.... (half of wm is built on cory skys principles by the way...)

realjustin.... if you had studied pandoras box and or juliens stuff you wouldnt write this because thats excactly what they teach that different women need different methods and you are wrong if you think there is no method for everything in life there is a method ... everything can be learned and in everthing there will be poeple who reach a level where they have secret knowledge...

no problem i know you are not hating me and even if you were i wouldnt care its just internet at the end everyone will believe what he finds is right

i choose to think about them like this because i want to the thats the reality i like.... if you think a women is a slave because she cooks and does the household for you then this is your opinion my women told me that they like to do this but had never done this before to another guy because he was not demanding enough and therefore not worthy... they tell me that deep down they think "man = boss" but the most guys are to much of pussys so they dont see a reason why they should obey them and thats why they tell the most men that they dont want this....

i also talked yesterday with my 2 girlfriends and said to them that i think women are not smarter than men and that 99,9 % of the women are dumb sluts and both agreed and gave me respect for telling the truth...

the truth is like julien says women have no real directions in life they will accept any direction you give them if you are strong enough... so if you see them as a loving housewife she will be, if you see her as a goddess she will be.... thats why my women are telling me after short time that they want to be my whores and even accept me having other girls in my life... its your life so you have the choice which direction you will go and what you will accept as a truth or not if you believe pua is useless and marketing you will never get result from it but this is ok you will go after this what you think is right...

i am not saying here that i have the real wisdom and truth i am just showing/telling you whats possible and how my reality looks like... whats possible for me wont be for you and whats possible or right for you wont be for me... thats all...


the subs will onyl unleash your inner potential determined by your genes, experience and skills you have thats why you cant expect guy a to get the same results as guy b, you can expect me to think like you and i cant expect you to think like me... if you want the same things another guy has you have to do the same as he does thats why i never hated or judged a guy who had a lot of women and mistreated them (from my point of view back then) thats why i am now becoming this guy

thats for now wish you all a great day

Yes, I've been through all of Julien's stuff including his new Shift program which is just rehashed bullsh*t, and I have been through VinDicarlo's Pandora Box years ago.

Of course there are guys out there that get tons of chicks, but they don't get EVERY chick which is why it's a bad idea to have a pua sub. It will limit yourself to ONLY be able to attract the women that respond to the subs perspective of pua.

Look at RSD alone. There's Julien, Max, Tyler, Jeffy, Ozzie, Todd, Brad, and Alex, and they all game completely differently, so that alone should tell you there is no "method" there are basic principals such as being outcome independent, none needy, none reactive, give instead of take, validate yourself, amuse yourself, and so on, but there is no one particular solid method.

In Julien's shift program, he "shows off" with his infiled bonuses by picking up strippers and club whores. Personally, I am not impressed by this in the slightest especially since Julien is a multi millionaire. What do strippers like? That's right, they like money. Any multi millionaire can get ANY stripper effortlessly. Even if you're not a multimillionaire, if your sub communications scream MONEY then she'll be on your nuts.

My guess is Julien can only get club sluts, strippers, and escorts. Sure, he dated a doctor, but she could still have the same mindset/personality of the rest of the trash he gets. Hot trash, sure, but none the less trash.

Pandora's box was made by an internet marketer who studied women for the sole purpose of creating a product with the most bullsh*t sales page on the planet written with persuasive techniques taught by Tony Robbins, Eben Pagan, Chet Holmes, Zig Ziglar, and every other marketer on Earth. The whole program is complete and utter bulls**t with there hired actresses getting interviewed, and those women aren't even hot. 6's at best. A program made to get you tens, yet they can't even pay a 10 to be in it. That's a fuc*ing joke.

There can't be a pua sub because every pua is different. Make it based off Juliens teachings and get club sluts, hookers, and strippers. Make it off of Tyler's and get club sluts, and some decent normal girls, make it off of Mystery's teachings and get club girls, make it off of VinDicarlo's teachings and get 3's to 6's if you pay them, make it off of David DeAngelos teachings and get no girls since he is just a marketer that said a bunch of bullsh*t and proudly admits to it under the name Eben Pagan, do it from Richard LaRuina's teachings and get club girls.

So all in all the common ground would be club girls, but these pua's go out every night and get rejected by every girl until they get one, and on most nights they don't get any.

You see a few clips on the internet and think they do this sh*t every night they go out like it's nothing but in reality it took them years just to get a handful of clips. If they showed all the rejections I don't think you would be so impressed with pua anymore.

My point is though that not all women are attracted to the same thing so a pua sub would be completely useless unless you want to limit yourself to one personality type.

It's like a movie maker wanting another movie makers knowledge in his head permanently, but that movie maker only makes horror movies. Then you will be stuck only making horror movies and the only people that will see your movies are people that are fans of horror movies.

Sure, there are people that will see the horror movies, but then you never get to see any of the other people that like dramas, comedies, action, suspense, erotic, romance, and so on.

It's limiting yourself.

I agree women should cook and clean, I just read what you wrote in a way like you wanted them to do it in a bad way like make them do it but have them so attracted they don't want to leave, kind of like they're doing it out of fear. But I agree completely women aren't as smart as men, and they were made to cook and clean and stay home and take care of the house. Their purpose is their man, and man's purpose is whatever he decides it to be. I think that's what nature intended. Not to say women shouldn't be able to work or anything, but it just seems that's how the world set things up, women need men, but the media has flipped the script to men need women which makes man needy which women are programmed by nature to HATE because they are supposed to be the needy ones, so all these needy men can't attract women and think they are gay and now everyone is gay and it's so bad now that everyone even wants to dress like women and become women. It's all from the media. Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings but it's the mother fu**ing truth.

[ffaux]

faux i am not frustrated i still get my chicks i am just complaining on a high level.... all i want here is to get shanon to make us a sub that will get us more vags.... about the am foundation i have postet something in my journal... it seems that guys here are measuring ones progress on the number of runthroughs someone has done, but i measure it on the external results and success someone gets even if internally he might come over as not stable, civilized or developed i just dont care

I agree with you that success should be measured by external results; I'm confident that's why everyone came here in the first place, no one came here to run AM 3 or 4 times. I'm personally running AM6 over and over exactly because I haven't yet had the external results I want. Stable, civilised or developed are value judgements of people who want something different from what you have--to each their own.

I understand that your frustration is not from a lack of women but it was interesting to me that you said that you feel a lack of power in your journal. I can relate in many ways because I used to have a hunger for dominating women before this run too. I wasn't strong enough to do it to the extent that you do it but I still used to make my women submissive to me in and out of bed. I enjoyed it.

I actually lost the girl I was sleeping with because AM6 killed that drive and she stopped finding me attractive. I stopped measuring my masculinity by how much she would let me dominate her and so I just stopped trying to dominate her. Now I don't need to see evidence of my masculinity, alpha male status or power in others, it's completely internally validated.

I think you will get a lot more power than you realise when you finish AM6. You won't need this PUA subliminal that you're asking for.

[AfzalG]

realjustin i know that they get rejected often... i get rejected often too but at the end it will work out with some of them there is no 100% success rate, and of course you cant have every women like 100% thats impossible but thats the same with the subs isnt it? the problem you mentioned here will be exactly the same with the subs you will also get onyl certain type of women ... i for myself find pua very useful and as i see its the difference what gives me more or better results here with girls pua and subs are a great combination, but let me ask you whats more effective in your eyes than pua ? i am open to any new suggestions...

richard laruina and deangelo are jokes in my opinion

yeah they get tons of trash whores hot trash whores like you said, but whats better to get like 20 hot trash whores in a year or to fight for one normal girl for a year?

by the way one of my girls is an academic too so its not that always trash whores will react... if pua is not the method i ask myself why it works so well for me if i use it and why i get so less results if i dont use it and just try to be "MY SELF"

I agree women should cook and clean, I just read what you wrote in a way like you wanted them to do it in a bad way like make them do it but have them so attracted they don't want to leave, kind of like they're doing it out of fear. But I agree completely women aren't as smart as men, and they were made to cook and clean and stay home and take care of the house. Their purpose is their man, and man's purpose is whatever he decides it to be. I think that's what nature intended. Not to say women shouldn't be able to work or anything, but it just seems that's how the world set things up, women need men, but the media has flipped the script to men need women which makes man needy which women are programmed by nature to HATE because they are supposed to be the needy ones, so all these needy men can't attract women and think they are gay and now everyone is gay and it's so bad now that everyone even wants to dress like women and become women. It's all from the media. Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings but it's the mother fu**ing truth.

i like this part


faux i had the exactly the same thing happen to me during am and especially during sm .... you think you dont have to define yourself about dominating the women, but the women dont care they leave you in the dust... thats why i like wm and i will be sad to have stopp it in a few weeks... but i plan to do am6 too ... still dont know if i should do am6 or rerun am5 ....


i still would like to see a pua sub other sub companies have them beside an alpha set, pu is for me like training karate or mma and the subs are like muscle training you can have the biggest muscles but if you dont know how to hit propperly it wont be of much use... but if you have muscles and technique you will be a serious fighter... i mean shanons recommends in am5 instruction to read double your dating by deangelo ^^ lol and he said that the subs only train but dont educate you.... i for my part dont think to rely on subs alone is enough indeed i think guys relying on subs alone are indeed resisting the programm wm for example made me go for pua more then every other sub it gave me the urge and motivation to find a way to get better with women, i think thats all subs can do give you motivation and show you the way but you have to go the way on by your own...

Honestly,I can't believe how can some people ask how many times had AM been run .. Life doesn't revolve only around subliminals ,are you insane .. subliminals should be your guidance,your helpful tool, not the most important thing in your life...

true story bro....

[TheRealJustin]

realjustin i know that they get rejected often... i get rejected often too but at the end it will work out with some of them there is no 100% success rate, and of course you cant have every women like 100% thats impossible but thats the same with the subs isnt it? the problem you mentioned here will be exactly the same with the subs you will also get onyl certain type of women ... i for myself find pua very useful and as i see its the difference what gives me more or better results here with girls pua and subs are a great combination, but let me ask you whats more effective in your eyes than pua ? i am open to any new suggestions...

richard laruina and deangelo are jokes in my opinion

yeah they get tons of trash whores hot trash whores like you said, but whats better to get like 20 hot trash whores in a year or to fight for one normal girl for a year?

by the way one of my girls is an academic too so its not that always trash whores will react... if pua is not the method i ask myself why it works so well for me if i use it and why i get so less results if i dont use it and just try to be "MY SELF"

I agree women should cook and clean, I just read what you wrote in a way like you wanted them to do it in a bad way like make them do it but have them so attracted they don't want to leave, kind of like they're doing it out of fear. But I agree completely women aren't as smart as men, and they were made to cook and clean and stay home and take care of the house. Their purpose is their man, and man's purpose is whatever he decides it to be. I think that's what nature intended. Not to say women shouldn't be able to work or anything, but it just seems that's how the world set things up, women need men, but the media has flipped the script to men need women which makes man needy which women are programmed by nature to HATE because they are supposed to be the needy ones, so all these needy men can't attract women and think they are gay and now everyone is gay and it's so bad now that everyone even wants to dress like women and become women. It's all from the media. Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings but it's the mother fu**ing truth.

i like this part


faux i had the exactly the same thing happen to me during am and especially during sm .... you think you dont have to define yourself about dominating the women, but the women dont care they leave you in the dust... thats why i like wm and i will be sad to have stopp it in a few weeks... but i plan to do am6 too ... still dont know if i should do am6 or rerun am5 ....


i still would like to see a pua sub other sub companies have them beside an alpha set, pu is for me like training karate or mma and the subs are like muscle training you can have the biggest muscles but if you dont know how to hit propperly it wont be of much use... but if you have muscles and technique you will be a serious fighter... i mean shanons recommends in am5 instruction to read double your dating by deangelo ^^ lol and he said that the subs only train but dont educate you.... i for my part dont think to rely on subs alone is enough indeed i think guys relying on subs alone are indeed resisting the programm wm for example made me go for pua more then every other sub it gave me the urge and motivation to find a way to get better with women, i think thats all subs can do give you motivation and show you the way but you have to go the way on by your own...

Honestly,I can't believe how can some people ask how many times had AM been run .. Life doesn't revolve only around subliminals ,are you insane .. subliminals should be your guidance,your helpful tool, not the most important thing in your life...

true story bro....

I'm not saying pua doesn't help. I'm saying that every pua has different game so if there was a pua sub it would be based off of one type of game and therefore you would be limiting yourself.

Some stuff should be left to judgement. If you are programmed to wait 3 days to call a girl you may miss out on girls that you would have noticed would love for you to call right away, but since you're programmed to wait 3 days, you miss out on that girl. I just think it would be better to study pua and to use what you learn as guidelines, but still use your own sense and judgement in each situation.

If it was a sub based on fundamentals of pua that are universal I think that would be cool like self esteem, self love, charisma, out going, extrovert, social, funny, friendly, confident, none needy, none reactive, self amuse, outcome independent, sex worthy, posture, talking loud, eye contact, seeing yourself as the prize, feeling worthy, staying fit, giving yourself permission to introduce yourself, just stuff like that.

If the sub goes into specifics though, then that's where I see it being a bad idea if you're programmed like wait this long to call, show positive body language in this situation, show negative body language in this situation, when you see her pupils expand do this, when you see her play with her hair do this, don't text without getting a reply first, forget about her if this or that, and so on and so forth.

With specific instructions, I believe the sub would do more harm than good, and you would be better off just studying the info until it's internalized, but if the sub was just the basic, universal fundamentals like I mentioned above, I think that would be a great sub.

Just my view on it.

[ImFreeman]

pu is for me like training karate or mma and the subs are like muscle training you can have the biggest muscles but if you dont know how to hit propperly it wont be of much use...

I simply LOVE this analogy you made, but i think i can make it better .

Pu is for me like training karate or mma and the subs are like muscle training, fighting mindset training, willingness to fight and be aggressive, training to have no fear in sight of danger, relentlessness and resourcefullness

I really think the best way to learn PUA is the typical old way of concious competence --> unconcious competence, one set of techniques at a time, until you master them.

What you are asking is like asking shannon to make a sub to learn how to drive a car, even if he makes one that works, it would still make much more sense to just sit in that car and start driving, until it becomes reflex.

Also there are so many PUA schools nowadays, and they work differently for different people. Some people can pull the nightgame perfectly, others are much more succesful on daygame, others like more 'connection' creating game like NLP/SS. It changes in respect to the girls you are gaming also.

IMO it all comes down to fear, once you are past any fear of rejection (im not, working on it), practicing PU becomes very pleasant and fun to do, because lets be clear, at least for me there is nothing more fun than to be out picking up girls, but fear is what gets me everytime.

[Benjamin]

I'm pretty sure Azfalg is gone now, he wanted me to disable his account but doesn't mind his posts still being here so I changed his password so he can't login.

Anyway, I avoid RSD now.. I read something interesting a while ago that they use embedded commands from hypnosis to make you rely on their stuff. And I started watching Shift and it become very obvious to me.. Julien was talking about how society makes you buy things because they teach you that it makes you happy.

The way he did it was very obvious to me, he's talking about it and like "you're unhappy.. buy my shit" "you're life isn't complete.. unless you buy my shit".

Definite embedded commands there, I wasn't sure until I seen it for myself. Trying to make you feel like you aren't good enough or can't have women unless you get all of their material.

Since noticing it I avoid their material. I always hated Tyler anyway, somehow I forced myself to watch the whole blueprint decoded. But he just annoys me, he is feminine and annoying.

[maxx55]

I'm pretty sure Azfalg is gone now, he wanted me to disable his account but doesn't mind his posts still being here so I changed his password so he can't login.

Anyway, I avoid RSD now.. I read something interesting a while ago that they use embedded commands from hypnosis to make you rely on their stuff. And I started watching Shift and it become very obvious to me.. Julien was talking about how society makes you buy things because they teach you that it makes you happy.

The way he did it was very obvious to me, he's talking about it and like "you're unhappy.. buy my shit" "you're life isn't complete.. unless you buy my shit".

Definite embedded commands there, I wasn't sure until I seen it for myself. Trying to make you feel like you aren't good enough or can't have women unless you get all of their material.

Since noticing it I avoid their material. I always hated Tyler anyway, somehow I forced myself to watch the whole blueprint decoded. But he just annoys me, he is feminine and annoying.

It's disappointing to see him go, but he'll probably keep moving forward.

Are things like embedded commands really effective? I never noticed that they were in their products, but now that I know that I'll be on my guard. I do see value in the content their offering though. I'm not sure who I'd follow instead.

[TheRealJustin]

I'm pretty sure Azfalg is gone now, he wanted me to disable his account but doesn't mind his posts still being here so I changed his password so he can't login.

Anyway, I avoid RSD now.. I read something interesting a while ago that they use embedded commands from hypnosis to make you rely on their stuff. And I started watching Shift and it become very obvious to me.. Julien was talking about how society makes you buy things because they teach you that it makes you happy.

The way he did it was very obvious to me, he's talking about it and like "you're unhappy.. buy my shit" "you're life isn't complete.. unless you buy my shit".

Definite embedded commands there, I wasn't sure until I seen it for myself. Trying to make you feel like you aren't good enough or can't have women unless you get all of their material.

Since noticing it I avoid their material. I always hated Tyler anyway, somehow I forced myself to watch the whole blueprint decoded. But he just annoys me, he is feminine and annoying.

Yes, this is why I always say pua is just a bunch of marketing and to just use it as salt to flavor the meal. If you start studying marketing, you will see it everywhere and it will make you sick, but the truth is, is that there's a science behind selling, relate, tell story to relate more and build raport, make it obvious to customer that you understand how much pain they're in, make sure they understand how much pain there in, convince them, beyond shadow of a doubt that you can make the pain stop and give them what they want, tell them how shitty they feel now, and how much worse they'll feel in the future, convince them without question that it's true, then describe the life you know they want, and tell them they can have that life by simply clicking the buy button now.

It's not just rsd, and it's not just pua. It's everything, and it's everywhere. imo though, rsd is the most helpful, most legit, most honest pu company in existence by far.

They write their sales copy exactly how they are supposed to or nobody would buy, that's just life. Tyler even says all the time that his sales letters are bullshit marketing and that nobody would discover his stuff if he was brutally honest like "how would you like to develop yourself over the years to become the best man you can, step out of your comfort zone daily for years and years and try as hard as you can to kick ass at life and finally get your di*k in the little wet hole?" Nobody would ever buy that so they have to be like, check this out! you can do it too! I used to suck, I was ugly blah blah relate to customer, but I overcame it all and now I smash dimes like this, watch!! See how bad your life sucks? Is this what you want? You can have this too, I'll teach you how, just click the button!" Obviously real sales copy is much longer and well thought out, but you get the idea.

[Benjamin]

Yeah the sales letters are retarded.. I seen one yesterday "I paid an israeli spy $8000 to learn these seduction secrets". And I admit that I was tempted but then I realized those feeilngs of 'this might be the solution' was just bullshit and i've got convinced by it so many times in the past. Unfortunately I still notice it effecting me emotionally like "I have to have that" until I pull myself out of that.

[Ricardo]

so guys the last week i was in berlin and was patying every night i observed the women there since they are from all around the world...

i looked at the guys there and noticed that all men who were alpha in my eyes and my criterias didnt get any chicks and guys who were total looser or nerds had chicks literally running after them... i even betazied some guys there in a very rough way but it didnt change anything beside some laugher from their girls they still kept running after them... what i noticed there was that all the low value guys there were using simple pick up techniques like push and pull... pretending they have lost interest and so on...

that made me come to the conclusion that everything the most men, psychologiest or who so ever tells you about women like "women can smell your insecurities a mile a way" "women are very good in knowing pretty fast what kind of a man you are" "or women can sense if you are a looser running game" hell no they cant **** this ***** women arent smarter then man, i would say even dumber, sry if someone feels insulted by this but this is my observation...

so what i realized is, that it isnt really much of importance what kind of a man you are its more important how you act and treat her... being a high value man seems to be less important than being one who uses simple pick up tricks consequently...

even the most developed puas like julien rsd say that being sex worthy alone is not enough you have to make things happen because the most girls are total retards...

the only thing from what you will get from them by being more developed is that you will confuse them and make them testing you more or proving your ego to you... the most women will delay or reject sex with a high value or player male just to satisfy her ego because this means more to her than satisfying her sexuel needs which she will do with lower value man she knows they cant validate her (attention i am talking here about girl 20-30 you meet in clubs and bars)

i noticed that am, wm and sm will make you a high value man, but they wont teach you anything about tricking or manipulating women, they wont teach you game... so yes you will get the attention but you wont get laid if you have no game....!!!!!

you will end up getting tones of attention from women everywere you go but you wont be the one who gets laid unless you make it consciously happen by gaming techniques... and **** this that every women goes for the alpha in the group if you are a real alpha you will only attract the women that goes for pure strong masculine men, and guess what they are not so many women like this today... so you will only have chance at 8-12% of the women...

becoming a higher value man will require a higher degree of game otherwise she wont believe you because it just seems to good to her because 99,9% arent like this so you will come over as a faker when you are indeed real... believe me i am not talking ***** here using shanons women attraction subs for over 2 years now without a pause and am constantly gaming...

so i would klike to see shanon build a pimp/ pick up master multi stage sub
which will teach you all the game you need

preferably form, dicarlos pandoras box (to recognize what type of a women she is and what you have to do)
and julien cold approach pick up from the pimp set...

i want it to be straight suggestions like...

- dont answer her calls or messages immediatly
- if she flakes you the second time dump this piece of shit
- dont react to her drama


i also would like to have there techniques embedded for making her devote and submit...

like making her always cook for you, keeping your house and so on in short make her totally devote to you by principles in mickey royals instructional guide to pimp game...


i know shanon you are not a fan of pick up and you said you wont make new pick up subs... but you have to take in regard that the male user here are wiling to pay the most money on things that get them laid thats why am,wm and sm are the topseller of your subs... so why not making a new real pick up sub...

what do you guys think do you want a sub that teaches you real game....?

That was a good post and you're right in your observations. Women have some intuition just like men but they are no more better than we are at sensing good relationship material. Look at women who fall for violent prisoners or blokes that knock them around, cheat on them and make their lives miserable, all the time putting up with it hoping things will get better. I think also that women have a huge downer on themselves and their bodies, even hot girls think their bodies are ugly. The first time I had sex she insisted on the lights being out despite the fact she had all the body 'qualities' I liked

So by using AM/WM/SM we are actually pricing ourselves out of the market so to speak.

[TheRealJustin]

Yeah the sales letters are retarded.. I seen one yesterday "I paid an israeli spy $8000 to learn these seduction secrets". And I admit that I was tempted but then I realized those feeilngs of 'this might be the solution' was just ***** and i've got convinced by it so many times in the past. Unfortunately I still notice it effecting me emotionally like "I have to have that" until I pull myself out of that.

LMAO YES!! Every time it's like "Sweet!!! I finally found someone with the answer to my problem!!!! I HAVE to buy this! " Then you buy it and it's just a rehashed version of stuff you've already been taught that never really helped to much anyways. I used to get suckered by it all EVERY TIME until I found David DeAngelo going by the name Eben Pagan talking about how he basically deceived everyone and made millions of dollars like nothing. Then I got hardcore into marketing and stuff, and the deeper you go, the more you notice all this crap. Sales copy, hypnotic writing, nlp, covert hypnosis, subliminal messages, it's all everywhere, and in everything, and shapes society it's wildly insane, but I can tell I will benefit greatly from it, especially with subs from this site helping me out too.

[Spareness]

Yeah the sales letters are retarded.. I seen one yesterday "I paid an israeli spy $8000 to learn these seduction secrets". And I admit that I was tempted but then I realized those feeilngs of 'this might be the solution' was just ***** and i've got convinced by it so many times in the past. Unfortunately I still notice it effecting me emotionally like "I have to have that" until I pull myself out of that.

LMAO YES!! Every time it's like "Sweet!!! I finally found someone with the answer to my problem!!!! I HAVE to buy this! " Then you buy it and it's just a rehashed version of stuff you've already been taught that never really helped to much anyways. I used to get suckered by it all EVERY TIME until I found David DeAngelo going by the name Eben Pagan talking about how he basically deceived everyone and made millions of dollars like nothing. Then I got hardcore into marketing and stuff, and the deeper you go, the more you notice all this crap. Sales copy, hypnotic writing, nlp, covert hypnosis, subliminal messages, it's all everywhere, and in everything, and shapes society it's wildly insane, but I can tell I will benefit greatly from it, especially with subs from this site helping me out too.

LOL yeah, it was also used to happen to me. until I learn internet marketing, I realize it all.

[CatMan]

Well, if anything SM3 and WM2 are PUA sets, and much more than just that. I rid myself of the PUA interest during AM6. You should run that man, it clears up a lot of this PUA crap once and for all. You realise how small time it is on AM6.

I've spent thousands of dollars on PUA bullshit. It's all the same, sales letters and sales videos playing off your insecurities and manipulating you, never telling you the REAL story and way to get change and only giving you some vague stuff and half the picture, because they want to keep you as a customer and upsell you and/or keep you buying crap. So there's always some new program or ebook or bootcamp nonsense, and it's all rehashes of either Mysterys stuff or Ross Jeffries stuff, it's always the same. You can tell after doing as many programs as me, you can see there ALL essentially rehashes of those two who were the originators. When the programs failed, I tried personal coaching with many of them and that cost a fortune. PUA is bullshit, and I thought most of them came off as fake, very low confidence, hugely dependant on bedding women and getting external validation from them, going for party girls who are at clubs and are drunk because they're softer targets. The whole thing felt dehumanised and very scummy. None of it worked for me. I just got a refund for DSP from Vin DiCarlo, and did the same for Pandora's Box. I'm getting a refund for Speed Seduction and the other course from Ross Jeffries too. All of this crap...it's all nonsense that doesn't work in the real world. "Normal" people don't need to run canned lines or patterns or stories or other bullshit on eachother...it was tough to learn and seemed incredibly overcomplicated and never worked anyway. It seemed very fake and orchestrated, and that's only WHEN I could actually remember the big complicated things to do.

So I finally exhausted every avenue with PUA, and before that, the "be yourself" mantra left me dysfunctional already as being myself WAS the problem but I had no idea what was driving women away from me in droves. I didn't know what to do after the PUA thing finally died out in my mind and I realised it's bullshit. I tried mones, I think I got a few nibbles of success finally, and now I'm trying subs. I started with subs using ASC 5G, moved to AM6, now I'm onto SM3. I can say there have been some changes, but so far still to be honest, girls and sex have evaded me, the jury is out on whether this path will prove to work for me. I'm only on stage 2, next week I start stage 3 where the sexual attraction is due to start, so it's early yet. But at least there have been a few positive changes otherwise, which is more than I can say with PUA.

The only thing PUA crap changed is my bank balance...

[TheRealJustin]

Well, if anything SM3 and WM2 are PUA sets, and much more than just that. I rid myself of the PUA interest during AM6. You should run that man, it clears up a lot of this PUA crap once and for all. You realise how small time it is on AM6.

I've spent thousands of dollars on PUA *****. It's all the same, sales letters and sales videos playing off your insecurities and manipulating you, never telling you the REAL story and way to get change and only giving you some vague stuff and half the picture, because they want to keep you as a customer and upsell you and/or keep you buying crap. So there's always some new program or ebook or bootcamp nonsense, and it's all rehashes of either Mysterys stuff or Ross Jeffries stuff, it's always the same. You can tell after doing as many programs as me, you can see there ALL essentially rehashes of those two who were the originators. When the programs failed, I tried personal coaching with many of them and that cost a fortune. PUA is *****, and I thought most of them came off as fake, very low confidence, hugely dependant on bedding women and getting external validation from them, going for party girls who are at clubs and are drunk because they're softer targets. The whole thing felt dehumanised and very scummy. None of it worked for me. I just got a refund for DSP from Vin DiCarlo, and did the same for Pandora's Box. I'm getting a refund for Speed Seduction and the other course from Ross Jeffries too. All of this crap...it's all nonsense that doesn't work in the real world. "Normal" people don't need to run canned lines or patterns or stories or other ***** on eachother...it was tough to learn and seemed incredibly overcomplicated and never worked anyway. It seemed very fake and orchestrated, and that's only WHEN I could actually remember the big complicated things to do.

So I finally exhausted every avenue with PUA, and before that, the "be yourself" mantra left me dysfunctional already as being myself WAS the problem but I had no idea what was driving women away from me in droves. I didn't know what to do after the PUA thing finally died out in my mind and I realised it's *****. I tried mones, I think I got a few nibbles of success finally, and now I'm trying subs. I started with subs using ASC 5G, moved to AM6, now I'm onto SM3. I can say there have been some changes, but so far still to be honest, girls and sex have evaded me, the jury is out on whether this path will prove to work for me. I'm only on stage 2, next week I start stage 3 where the sexual attraction is due to start, so it's early yet. But at least there have been a few positive changes otherwise, which is more than I can say with PUA.

The only thing PUA crap changed is my bank balance...

I was the same way, but never did a boot camp, but I have been through it all, just rehashed stuff. Once I found out who David DeAngelo actually is and found out for the most part PUA is just kind of in a sense a get rich quick scheme, I stopped putting delusional focus on it, but I wouldn't take back anything I've learned.

Now I just be myself, and use pua stuff I learned when it's necessary, like in the past maybe a girl wouldn't text back, so I'd text her again, wait, then, again, wait, then again and all of a sudden she's like not into me at all when a little earlier she was super into me. Now I know what the problem was, and not to do that. That's just a super duper basic example, I've learned a lot in the last 10 years, and I will always look into pick up and learn from people better than me, but I'll never be delusional about it again thinking I'm going to find some method that let's me say a few words with just the right body language and any girls panties will just magically drop.

I actually like pua, I just hate how my view on it was, like I was not myself for a long time, but now I'm normal again with insane knowledge too. People like VinDicarlo though, f**k no. Pure 100% marketing. If it aint RSD it aint for me, basically.

For Ross Jeffries I can see not liking him, but his "routines" are more for making his products more complete, and trying to help people understand something complex in a short period of time. NLP is DEFINITELY something you should know, that sh*t is no joke, seriously. Ross Jeffries just gives the tip of the ice berg, but just like pua you don't want to get weird with NLP either, you just want NLP and PUA to just be salt to flavor the meal. Neither should be a focus, but it's good to know both because both are extremely powerful tools if you know when to use them and when not to.

I hope you have a good experience with SM. I'm running biabws right now, and it's like magic. Seriously, I'll probably run it until I want to settle down and get married.