Dangers of the "Magic Pill" Mentality

[Mufasa]

People want a magic pill to solve all their problems.

I’ve been lurking around the forum a bit and I’ve seen a theme repeating again and again…

People wanting the subs to do it all – whether it’s attracting people for sex, making themselves more attractive in general, attracting money, eliminating their fears, getting them fit, etc.  All without any effort on their part. They want the program to effectively accomplish their objectives for them, take over their body and they can just "wake up" being the King or Queen on top of the mountain, having it all.  Then they inevitably complain if they don’t see miraculous results...

It’s sad that people are so willing to give up responsibility for their fears, their desires and their accomplishments.  Not all, but a significant portion, seem to be unwilling to do any real deep work.  They would rather outsource that part of it and effortlessly get the benefits they think they want.

The real work - To incrementally expose themselves to their fears and learn to function despite them.  To work up the nerve to approach the person they find attractive and say “hi” even though they are quivering with fear and their stomach is full of butterflies… To develop a strategy for a raise and bring it up to their boss...  To take risks and experience FAILURE!  To commit to something - and not to give up as soon as the glamour and its the shallow motivation wears off...

These are the experiences that carve out real character. Courage, resilience, resolve, perseverance, true confidence… qualities gained from experience.

Subliminals are an amazing conditioning tool; but they are NOT a magic pill to avoid taking responsibility for your life. Not an excuse to stop learning, stretching your capabilities and taking intelligent action.

There is no doubt the subliminals here are a very valuable conditioning tool - to use as part of a successful life.

I hope it's clear I'm not calling their validity into question. The importance of healthy local and non-local field/auric dynamics and the effectiveness of conditioning the subconscious can’t be overstated - nor the level of skillful creation they've been taken to here.  I'm over 50 loops of UMS and not stopping anytime soon...

My biggest trigger here was with someone who will remain unnamed, so mistaken that he thinks making women more “comfortable” with him is a bad thing. He doesn’t need a subliminal, he needs KNOWLEDGE and EXPERIENCE.  He needs to know WHY women feel comfortable and SAFE around men they find attractive - (something along the lines of: because they sense you are capable of being dangerous enough to protect them, yet you have it reigned in and under control).   He needs to feel the fear and have the experience of overcoming it.  He needs different priorities, to know what are truly attractive traits and commit to developing them. He needs to experience failure!

Failure you OWN - you don't blame the magic pill for not being strong enough.  You fail, make another go and fail better.  We often don't hear the Truth that consistently "Failing better" is what leads to all lasting Success.

The magic pill mindset, maybe mostly at its root a clever and elaborate way of masking the fear of failure - which if left unresolved, stunts the growth of character.

Even if the "magic pill" works and you gain what you thought you wanted without any effort on your part, it won't satisfy for long.  It won't be as meaningful.  You won't be able to own it in the same way you would if you KNEW you faced challenge, failed, overcame obstacles and persevered to attain it!

[CatMan]

My biggest trigger here was with someone who will remain unnamed, so mistaken that he thinks making women more “comfortable” with him is a bad thing. He doesn’t need a subliminal, he needs KNOWLEDGE and EXPERIENCE.  He needs to know WHY women feel comfortable and SAFE around men they find attractive - (something along the lines of: because they sense you are capable of being dangerous enough to protect them, yet you have it reigned in and under control).   He needs to feel the fear and have the experience of overcoming it.  He needs different priorities, to know what are truly attractive traits and commit to developing them. He needs to experience failure!

I rarely come to this part of the forum as usually it delves into things I have no interest in.

I'm thinking this is about me...I know the exact post this is referencing. It's also from several months ago, I'm surprised this is coming up now.

But, why did you "like" my comment, and even "rep" me for it near the end of last month...if I'm "mistaken"?

I haven't ran an "attraction" sub in a very long time, as it's clear they are nowhere near where they need to be in results. As a result, I don't have much interest anymore in discussing my background or issues with women at this point. It's been done a million times, and with someone who's knowledge of it is relevant to improve the program, Shannon. So I see no need to further waste my time going over the same topics over and over and over with others, who likely have their own issues which is why they are here too, muddying things.

I've "experienced" mountains of failure already...so I don't understand that part of the post. So much so, that for a long time now, I have low desire to truly go for women anymore, I just don't seem to bother as much now. I've written about this often.

Nobody wants a "magic pill". We are measuring the program based off SHANNON'S intended purpose for it. SHANNON'S! He says it is supposed to make women sexually attracted to us to the degree we are to them, and pursue us for sex. I think, just as I did way back when I first heard it, that it is a fantasy, it reminds me of those over the top AXE commercials years ago. But, I'm trying it out, giving it a chance, every time a new version comes out. I'm weighing it's success based off SHANNON'S words about it's intent. Measuring the sub by it's success in relation to the goal stated BY SHANNON, is realistic and reasonable. It is hardly expecting a "magic pill", just merely judging the sub in accordance to it's goal. Nobody "wants it to do it all for them", another annoying claim. But we DO expect it to do SOMETHING...otherwise...what exactly are people paying for?!

Hopefully this will be the end of this. I really have no desire to go any further with anything. I don't even really post anymore, for a very long time now. I generally don't find it an enjoyable experience anymore, I hate the big protracted arguments that often ensue for some reason. Last thing I want to do is get into a big fight, especially about a several months old post I wrote about a program I used months and months ago and have been off for a very long time. I'm confused as to why that post was called out now, after liking it and repping it. I hope it isn't some concern trolling...but I do hope this is the end of this.

Maybe the problem I had is in how this is presented, publicly like on a soapbox. That's why my first thoughts went to either a need to feel superior, or concern trolling. Maybe a PM would've been better if this was genuine concern.

Thank you for your time. Have a nice day.

[Steve_]

Rule 5 & 6  warning. You're welcome to express your opinions but please do so without involving other members. Let this thread be a discussion about the state of current subs and about taking action to achieve the goals of the program.

[Mufasa]

I liked your honesty and integrity in that post.  Didn't mean to call you out here, it was just the most memorable example I could recall at the time where I feel emphasis on character development would be so much more helpful and powerful than selling a "magic pill", whether it is a subliminal or some supposed "pickup artist"'s $500 course.

I posted here mostly to get it off my chest and possibly get a few readers thinking in a more empowering way.

The attracting women niche was a trigger for me as I personally went deep into the whole Dating and even "PUA" thing for quite a time.  I've taken many "magic pills" and hopped onboard self development fads.  I tried spray on pheromones, elaborate pickup lines, etc etc. I spent tons of money and 1000s of hours on that sort of stuff and maybe .1% of it had lasting value.

What really changed things on my journey in regard to women? (incomplete list)
*Starting a daily workout habit (even 1 pushup, as long as you do more than 0)
*Working and gaining financial independence from family members.
*Learning about sexual transmutation and quitting pornography. (HUGE)
*Getting a good handle on nutrition and eating healthily.
*Conquering the half truth of nihilism with the creation of a deeply meaningful personal philosophy (perhaps difficult but extremely worthwhile)
*Focusing primarily on character growth > attracting women (see book "KING WARRIOR MAGICIAN LOVER", excellent archetypal framework of mature masculine.)
*The books "The Rational Male" and "Models: Attracting Women Through Honesty"

As far as my emphasis on failure; I don't mean to act as if I desire or seek out failure, or that you should either - I just have come to appreciate HIGH QUALITY failures.  This is where you are pushing things to another level and you reach a point you don't have the skills to deal with yet, you try something you've not tried the same way before it doesn't work out...  This is the "Failing better" that when practiced consistently and learned from leads to inevitable success.

When we generally fear/resist failure we don't make the attempt - we're throwing these high-quality failures out with the bathwater.  You could call them instead "character development moments" or "learning moments" if you don't like the word failure.  They must be seen for what they are and learned from however - otherwise, if one just wallows in negative emotions and escapism, the experience goes to waste - then it's a low-quality failure.

Doing pretty much what you've always done and getting the same results you've always gotten over and over again... that is low-quality failure and stagnation. (I'm not saying this is all you've done, I'm just pointing out the distinction).

I guess I wrote this mainly because I don't like that some of these subs are seen as total solutions to our problems - rather than a specialized tool to use along with other practices and tools to empower ourselves.  I see people giving credit for everything good that happens to them to the subliminal programs they're running - as if our own intention and capability has no power without it.

There is the compelling idea of the "permission slip".  That is; we use things like these subs as a way to allow ourselves permission to get past our conscious filters and fully utilize our own innate power which we've become disconnected from by the conditioning/programming of our early life experience. As long as our conscious mind can accept it's plausible - it can work. It could be a lucky rabbits foot, a magic pickup line, a prayer, a subliminal or anything really that gets past our conditioned mind and gives our subconscious permission to succeed.  The placebo effect is another facet of this phenomenon

So even just the intention of doing something to help an aspect of our lives is probably helping - even if there is nothing happening under the hood but some static and water sounds...  [I hope it's more than that, as otherwise we've been cleverly duped into spending 100s of dollars on these programs, when we could have found a $5 crystal to carry with us that could potentially work just as well... ]

If I'm being completely honest, I don't have any evidence (other than hearsay and the word of the producer) that its anything more than a lucky rabbits foot at this point.   I tried to avoid coming here or looking at the scripts of the program to avoid the natural desire to convince my conscious mind of the plausibility of it, so that I could just judge the program on my own experience - but obviously I couldn't resist.

I'm confident it is something along the lines of what they're telling us, though I haven't experienced anything major yet, and sometimes I have doubts.  In any case I'll continue with it treating it as a useful ritual for now - as just like the placebo I know it CAN work regardless.
It is reassuring that they offer refunds - and if it was a hoax, it would really have to be a very elaborate one - I'm convinced Shannon believes they work, even if they cannot possibly have been tested in any sort of rigorous empirical way other than feedback of customers (that I'm aware of).

[Shannon]

You make a couple of points that I'd like to respond to.

First, equating subliminals with placebo, which is basically what you're doing, because you personally don't get the results, is a conclusion based on faulty thinking. It is quite possible for one person to get results and another not to, when the program is valid and working, because one person refuses to execute the script. It happens a lot, in fact and in fact that's why I have been working for many many years now to get us past where that is possible for anyone but the extreme outliers. The script is a set of instructions. You choose whether or not to execute, and that choice is influenced on my end by trying to find solutions to why you might not otherwise, and being persuasive. On your end, it boils down to irrational subconscious response that comes ultimately from fear, and almost certainly a fear of loss of control, which is by its very nature preposterous, or logically, you wouldn't be able to refuse to cooperate and get no results. But fear isn't logical.

Second point. There is a lot of testing that goes on behind the scenes. We test new technologies all the time, and some are in testing for years before we release them. Just because you don't see that, or see how it could be, doesn't make it not so. You load your statement by saying "any sort of rigorous empirical way", but we use empirical and other forms of testing. We start with the predictive models, and then narrow things down based on empirical testing. As for your definition of rigorous, now we're just playing at moving the goalposts as seems convenient for the argument at hand.

In the end, the results are what matters. No matter what I do, someone is going to find a way to refuse to execute. I have no illusions about that. Even when I finally stop trying to develop and advance this tech, and 6G comes out, there will likely be some small group of people who are so far out there in whatever way that they can and do resist and get no results. We have our refund policy not as a gimmick or as a marketing ploy, but to provide our customers with a fair way to make sure they get their money's worth, without ourselves being taken advantage of or scammed in the process. We have it because the evidence goes far beyond "I believe these work". The question is, how much are you willing to open your mind to it? Based on your apparent results with my programs and those of others, and your apparent "scientific skepticism" approach, I would say that some part of you at least, is not willing to open up and play along.

Nobody is perfect, and even at my best, I get help from my predictive models and multiple advisors in figuring this stuff out. But even I don't believe there will never come a day when I know everything, or know so much that I get a 100% success rate. Those who in the end don't execute, they will have to live with the consequences of that choice. And in the meantime, they can get a refund and find whatever does work for them.

[Mufasa]

Didn't intend to equate authentic subliminals with placebos.  It was just to say that if -  IF - there was a track of nothing but water sounds marketed as a subliminal (a hypothetical false subliminal), but the conscious mind was convinced it would do something - it very well could do this thing.  Akin to a placebo.

This doesn't take away from authentic subliminals any more than it takes away from medicinal drugs to mention that placebos do in fact work.

This is more about the excitement at the potential of seeing and harnessing the power of the subconscious mind ourselves - and owning it.

Not intending on diminishing authentic subliminals.  I run UMS every morning sometimes twice a day and I will for the foreseeable future.  I have noticed some subtle benefits - just nothing mind blowing as of yet.
 
My comment about there being "no way" they could have been rigorously tested - that was worded poorly and I may edit that out.  Sorry.

I meant; If we were approaching it scientifically - there would have to be double blind trials and the like - and I don't think that is what we're working with here.  It's closer to hypnosis.
I don't believe science is necessarily the ultimate arbiter of truth anyway.

I am open; I believe in many ways of influencing the subconscious and its ultimate power - I've had experiences that have confirmed this for me.  I cherish them even though there can't be scientific proof validating my experience for others. I've also taken in many useful teachings which have had lasting benefits - I was just sharing that, in my experience, in the DATING field, as well as in other fields, there are people who are more concerned with making themselves money by selling the easy fixes(magic pills) to clueless men - then truly helping their customers improve in a sustainable way. That said there are of course some notable exceptions which have helped 1000s of men genuinely improve and I'm not advocating we throw the baby out with the bathwater or that we should doubt everything - just emphasizing the importance of cultivating healthy discernment.

It's possible that there may be resistance on some level - almost definitely there is.  Surely I still have some blocks to money and wealth on some level, despite my efforts to remedy them.  I had been focused on this  intently when the email announcing UMS synchronistically fell into my inbox.

Not sure what I can do - I've tried avoiding the forums and avoiding reading the scripts and just keeping the habit of listening once or twice per day without interruption.  This was to keep the conscious mind out of the equation and let the subliminal do its work under the hood without the firewall of the conscious mind blocking it. Perhaps I should stick to that?  Any other tips are welcome.

[Shannon]

I have found that UMS needs time to bloom. It takes me at least 4, usually 5 and sometimes 6 days of bloom, to get the most from it. This new 5.75G is not like 5.5G. It needs time to bloom, or it is constantly overwhelming the subconscious. So try doing X number of loops, and then take a week off to observe the bloom. Then pick the number of days that works best for you for how long to let it bloom.