Any difference between running AM-SM x times, and AM x times then SM x times?

[AlphaRomeo]

Hey guys,
I know this topic/question has come up in a couple of conversations on this forum before, mainly in AM related and SM related topics, but never directly and certainly I have not found any explanation or reasoning for the possible answer of this question:

What is the difference, if any, between running say AM - AM - SM - SM and AM - SM - AM - SM when it comes to the end results? Why?

Recently there has been a lot of discussion about how magnets did not give the kind of results that the user expected and guys expressing their disappointment on those programs. But this topic is not new; also earlier many commented how they "wasted time" on SM before laying solid enough foundation with AM and wished they would have run AM twice (or more) before moving to magnets. Well, I don´t understand how running SM after one AM is waste of time if you are gonna run both twice anyway (based on journals it looks like most guys needs to run SM twice anyway just like AM in order to get the results they want). If you have run SM after one AM your subconscious has absorbed worth of one run of SM (and one run of AM)duh, and it´s not gonna nullify that programming just because you move on back to AM. AM just becomes focus for a while and when you go back to SM you now have "worth of" two AM runs and one SM, and after you finish SM second round you have exactly the same amount of subliminal programming on your subconscious as if you would have run AMx2 and then SMx2. Am I missing something here? I know it can be more complicated than that (and I would love to hear some input on this), but what I don´t understand is when some guys says how they, or how the user whose journal they are commenting on, "wasted so much time" and make it sound as if it were some terrible horrible mistake to run SM after one AM.

I can understand the "wasting time" mentality if one thought that only one run of SM after solid foundation of AM (whatever times of running AM it means for that person) would be enough, but again if you are planning to run SM twice (or more) in the reasonably time frame then what does it matter if you run AM - SM - AM - SM or AM - AM - SM - SM? Again, is there a difference in the end,total results, and if yes what and why?

[LionKing]

I'd quess the reasoning is that if you run all those AMs first then you'll have a very solid foundation, which translates into accepting and expressing the suggestions given in SM in a short amount of time. When you start expressing the behaviors, you start consciously expecting them from yourself, at which point it becomes self-regenerating and all that snowflake theory jazz.

Contrasted with running SM directly with a less-than-great foundation (e.g. lots of fear), you might be too stiffled/needy/whatever to start expressing the suggested behaviors and there would never be a chance of them becoming the "new you". Of course you'd have a head start when you come back to it the next time. You'd also be more likely to experience more resistance (feeling bad), but as I understood the "flakes" are still piling up, so it shouldn't matter too much.

And then there's the other point of keeping the momentum going. Keeping your subconscious focused on that one goal for a long stretch of time and not "wasting time" on switching direction. No idea if this is a big issue or not.

Personally, I don't want to wait many years before reaching "the end result". Besides boring, who knows what'll happen in 3 years - maybe my dick will fall of. I've also thought that SM/WM will push me a little into unknown territory and then the following round of AM has some new challenged to work with. Idk, if this is of any real benefit of not.

EDIT: I have to say, though, 6 months feels like a really long time when you're not seeing any results.. so I'm pretty sure I'd use the word "wasted" anyway, because it'd feel like it. And it would be if the user was discouraged enough by the experience to not use it anymore (hola CM :p ).

[robstar]

For me it was kind of the fact that my life started falling apart during SM. I actually got decent results on the SM side of things, just that my lack of foundation with AM led to me finding it really difficult to be motivated and productive in other areas of my life that I hadn't fully fixed with AM

[AlphaRomeo]

Hey LK,
Some good points there. My original thought was to just ask the question for my personal reference; I have run AM6 once, and am at SM end half (pretty much where CatMan is in SM, a week or so to stage 5. Best of luck for the last stages of your SM journey CM...) and I am planning to run both twice more. So two runs left of each, and was wondering if it matters much if after I finish SM I run AMx2 - SMx2 or (AM-SM)x2. But I guess the decision will be based on my life situation at that moment.

Then I thought why not expand the thread a little bit from my own personal interest to touch the common issue on magnets journals and see if we can come up with useful information/angles on how there could be possibility that the time was not "wasted" after all for some guys <- I think the "jury" might be still out there...

On a side note, 6 months does not seem a much of a big deal for me...maybe it´s cos of my age and the fact that one of my greatest strengths has always been patience. Funny how the older you get (and the less life you have "left") the more patient you become. I can understand that for some of the younger guys 6 months can feel like it´s eternity and if they are in school or something they might think along the lines of "oh my god, I only have this semester left and then that hot girl moves to different town...SM better work NOW b4 it´s too late or I wasted my time" or whatever. Personally, I stopped care long time ago about things like that. ( I know CM is not one of the "younger guys" here, and my original post nor this was addressed to any particular journal.) Now I like to think more like a decade ahead (in terms of what kind of man I will become in all areas of life) , while still trying to live in the moment as much as possible, constantly growing and being the best I can be now. Like I said before, somewhere, I plan to run Shannon´s sub for the next 10 years or so...so in the long run, I can´t see how running SM or WM or whatever without getting results right now is waste of time...if,again,one keeps going..

Of course one should take the life situation into account and for some particular point in life it might FEEL like if you don´t get results NOW then it was wasted time...but I personally have weird sense of time...

[AlphaRomeo]

robstar,
hmm...that´s interesting. Most guys get little to no results without solid AM foundation but you got at least decent ones. Maybe you had a better "starting point"/history/ when it comes to goals that SM is trying to achieve and it were easier for you to achieve those results because of that? And had some lack in goals that AM is trying to achieve, so you were having like "closer to SM than AM" foundation to begin with and sex/sexuality was not big deal for you? I might be wrong...just guessing and interested to hear if that´s true.

[robstar]

robstar,
hmm...that´s interesting. Most guys get little to no results without solid AM foundation but you got at least decent ones. Maybe you had a better "starting point"/history/ when it comes to goals that SM is trying to achieve and it were easier for you to achieve those results because of that? And had some lack in goals that AM is trying to achieve, so you were having like "closer to SM than AM" foundation to begin with and sex/sexuality was not big deal for you? I might be wrong...just guessing and interested to hear if that´s true.

Yep. I'd had periods of good success with sex and women, just inconsistent, and often not the girls I reeally wanted. I'm also a singer and have good access to social circles with hot girls (music theatre, actors, dancers). But it was definitely noticable results with SM, breaking a year long dry spell with 3 different girls that I saw regularly throughout.

[AlphaRomeo]

For me it was kind of the fact that my life started falling apart during SM. I actually got decent results on the SM side of things, just that my lack of foundation with AM led to me finding it really difficult to be motivated and productive in other areas of my life that I hadn't fully fixed with AM

Yep. I'd had periods of good success with sex and women, just inconsistent, and often not the girls I reeally wanted. I'm also a singer and have good access to social circles with hot girls (music theatre, actors, dancers). But it was definitely noticable results with SM, breaking a year long dry spell with 3 different girls that I saw regularly throughout.

Ok,cool. Well that raises an interesting question...if someone who has "more of SM than AM" foundation to begin with can have results with just one of SM (while having yet more work to do with AM stuff) then could it be that someone who has "more of AM than SM" foundation to begin with would have better SM related results with AM - SM - SM instead of AM - AM - SM? For example, if I remember correctly, CatMan (and I hope CM does not mind for me to use him as an example here) mentions in his journal that he has pretty much everything else in his life in place, except women. If one has his s**t together otherwise but lack in that department would it make sense that after AM one should run SM twice if needed to get those specific results, especially if one start from "zero" there?

I understand that running both twice or three times etc. would be even better results wise but it seems that most guys are impatient and don´t want wait for years for programs to work. Most like to run AM once then jump into SM to get the results (or lack of results)...some run AM twice and then jumps into magnets...but maybe someone who has solid enough AM foundation after one run + the life experience (usually the older the guy gets the better AM foundation he has to begin with) would have better results with one AM and two SM instead the other way around. Just a thought...I plan to run both three times either way.

[RTBoss]

...some run AM twice and then jumps into magnets...but maybe someone who has solid enough AM foundation after one run + the life experience (usually the older the guy gets the better AM foundation he has to begin with) would have better results with one AM and two SM instead the other way around. Just a thought...I plan to run both three times either way.

Pure logic. :idea:

[AlphaRomeo]

Pure logic. :idea:

Yea that´s what I think ...but for some reason there is always a lot of talk on how one should need a solid AM foundation before moving to SM, and then guys who have or think they have that get´s disappointed after only one run of SM...but I don´t remember many times been mentioned that maybe in some cases more than one run of SM is needed to get the desired (SM related) results...and I don´t remember anyone mentioning that maybe in some cases more runs of SM THAN AM is needed to get those results.

[AJK]

I'd like to comment as I've done AM5-..-SM3-AM6-SM3- now AM6 Stage 1.

The question is not so much experience, but driving mechanism to even run SM. To be honest, I think we go for SM due to some latent need for validation through sex. That need goes away with more AM runs as one achieves a strong internal locus of needs (i.e. we no longer need external validation from women).

Once one has done sufficient AM runs, the desire for external validation disappears. I feel I wasted six months during the second run as it was clear that I no longer wanted external validation, all the while becoming more sexual. Hey, its cool and all, but I would rather have done another pass of AM6 than SM3. Then after this run, I could focus on WM entirely.

My view at this time is get your own shit together before involving other people.

[AlphaRomeo]

I'd like to comment as I've done AM5-..-SM3-AM6-SM3- now AM6 Stage 1.

The question is not so much experience, but driving mechanism to even run SM. To be honest, I think we go for SM due to some latent need for validation through sex. That need goes away with more AM runs as one achieves a strong internal locus of needs (i.e. we no longer need external validation from women).

Once one has done sufficient AM runs, the desire for external validation disappears. I feel I wasted six months during the second run as it was clear that I no longer wanted external validation, all the while becoming more sexual. Hey, its cool and all, but I would rather have done another pass of AM6 than SM3. Then after this run, I could focus on WM entirely.

Interesting point. Tho I think there can be also different reasons for guys to go for SM and it does not necessarily have to do with external validation thru sex. If one is aiming to have sex with as many women as possible with the help of SM then it might to do with validation, but for others it might be that they want to get more comfortable around women intimately and has a lot of issues to be cleared around that area and are seeking SM to help them. In that case it´s not so much about validation as it is about filling the basic human need for (experiences of) mating and intimacy,with the help of sub. There can be some not so obvious reason also. Interesting to see what Shannon has in the hopefully soon to be released ERPHA2...he said something about including sex related healing programming in that one which I think would greatly help many guys.

My view at this time is get your own shit together before involving other people.

That is exactly why those who already has their own shit together (and having his own internal validation), but lack in sex apartment (basic human need), might benefit from AM - SM - SM more than from AM - AM - SM

[robstar]

For me it was kind of the fact that my life started falling apart during SM. I actually got decent results on the SM side of things, just that my lack of foundation with AM led to me finding it really difficult to be motivated and productive in other areas of my life that I hadn't fully fixed with AM

Yep. I'd had periods of good success with sex and women, just inconsistent, and often not the girls I reeally wanted. I'm also a singer and have good access to social circles with hot girls (music theatre, actors, dancers). But it was definitely noticable results with SM, breaking a year long dry spell with 3 different girls that I saw regularly throughout.

Ok,cool. Well that raises an interesting question...if someone who has "more of SM than AM" foundation to begin with can have results with just one of SM (while having yet more work to do with AM stuff) then could it be that someone who has "more of AM than SM" foundation to begin with would have better SM related results with AM - SM - SM instead of AM - AM - SM? For example, if I remember correctly, CatMan (and I hope CM does not mind for me to use him as an example here) mentions in his journal that he has pretty much everything else in his life in place, except women. If one has his s**t together otherwise but lack in that department would it make sense that after AM one should run SM twice if needed to get those specific results, especially if one start from "zero" there?

I understand that running both twice or three times etc. would be even better results wise but it seems that most guys are impatient and don´t want wait for years for programs to work. Most like to run AM once then jump into SM to get the results (or lack of results)...some run AM twice and then jumps into magnets...but maybe someone who has solid enough AM foundation after one run + the life experience (usually the older the guy gets the better AM foundation he has to begin with) would have better results with one AM and two SM instead the other way around. Just a thought...I plan to run both three times either way.

I totally agree with that. I think Catman should run SM twice in a row. I got less out of AM than he did but more out of SM, so lack of AM is not the cause of his lack of SM results, its the fact that he has a lot more work for SM to do.

[JackOfHearts]

If I remember correctly Shannon also mentioned that it's a good thing to change sub after a 6 stage so the programming has the time to sink in. Like AM6 then a little pause with another sub then AM6 again. I would say it's the same with SM3. Which should be SM3 then a resting period then SM3 again. The resting period could be AM6.

I remember when I first finished AM5 I hesitated to do SM3 and I finally decided to do AM6 instead.
I think it was a good choice as my programming with AM5 wasn't good enough. I was just too excited to get some woman attention with AM5. Maybe SM3 would have worked but I will never know but I don't think so, at best I would have some good sex experience but it would have been a very hard run through SM3.

But in the long term if someone goes from AM6 to SM3 I think he will surely get the results he wants. I personally won't do SM3 twice in a row because I don't want my focus on woman alone but I never did SM3 once so I don't know but reading SM3 journals I don't think it's a coincidence that no one did SM3 twice in a row.

Also I like this comparison from sub to DBZ. In the DBZ series there is this huge room in which a day equals year. They train a lot for a year and their body according to Son Goku get really tired due to the harsh environment. So at the end Son Goku prefer to rest than to train again for a year in that room because he thinks his body needs a little rest.
When someone goes into SM3 for 6 month I think his mind need a little rest and maybe that rest will do more goods than jumping into another training right away, the world isn't going to end if you take a little rest from time to time. But for sure I understand that someone would like to do SM3 twice in a row to get the results right away and if he gets them it's all good.

Also I don't agree with the idea that doing SM3 could be a wasted time. From what I have noticed the guys who said that were doing doing SM3 and I'm sure it's a resistance from the sub.
It is highly unlikely to do SM3 and being the same afterwards.
You can notice the same thing happening when someone is in the stage 3 from AM6 (guy complaining, noticing no results, being depress, doubting the sub effectiveness, etc)

[robstar]

I'd like to comment as I've done AM5-..-SM3-AM6-SM3- now AM6 Stage 1.

The question is not so much experience, but driving mechanism to even run SM. To be honest, I think we go for SM due to some latent need for validation through sex. That need goes away with more AM runs as one achieves a strong internal locus of needs (i.e. we no longer need external validation from women).

Once one has done sufficient AM runs, the desire for external validation disappears. I feel I wasted six months during the second run as it was clear that I no longer wanted external validation, all the while becoming more sexual. Hey, its cool and all, but I would rather have done another pass of AM6 than SM3. Then after this run, I could focus on WM entirely.

My view at this time is get your own shit together before involving other people.

Sex is pleasurable and fun, but also it's a basic need (passing on genes). It's not like food, water, sleep and shelter, but I'd say it's next on the list. When a guy can't get laid regularly I think his self esteem and overall contentment with life takes a hit, no matter how much we try not to look for external validation. I know for me, when I'm having sex at least every 1-4 weeks max, my life overall is of a higher quality. My year long dry spell was a downward spiral into low self-esteem and depression, that I didn't even realise I had until I started getting laid again, and it had nothing to do with validation, but could have been more related to brain chemicals. For that reason I think SM is just as important and valuable as AM to a guy who isn't in control of his sex life. Desire for sex is about more than just wanting validation it's a primal desire. I think desire for validation if anything gets in the way, like when a guy ends up in the friend zone because he wants approval more than sex.
It's one of those things I don't think guys realise they're lacking until they have it. Guys can delude themselves when they say "I don't need women" but I think it's just a cop-out, and they're probably wanking it to porn anyway