Pimp/ Pick up Artist multistage-...

[SargeMaximus]

Well Shannon said he started with audible tracks saying affirmations and he just got into subs to help himself, and then over time it turned into a business. I'm sure he did research when trying to make it a business, I'm just saying that he did not get into creating subs for the sole purpose of creating a business. Like he did not just search the internet for a hot money making niche, find subs, and then his subliminal journey was born.

Well I suppose, though even David D would have had SOME personal stake in the matter. I heard he was big on psychology, and that's what he mostly prattled on about in his videos wasn't it?

Bottom line is I don't think it was malicious. Sure he wanted to make money, maybe even DID search for the niche, found it, and capitalized on it, but farmers do the same thing with deciding what to plant and where. It's just human, and as such, I can't condemn him, especially since people gave him their money willingly. Like I said, wish I knew how to do the same lol.

When I say a pua sub is a bad idea I'm coming from Azflag's perspective of basically having Julien's current "method" programmed into your brain.

I do think though, that a pua sub would be a wonderful idea if it was just the universal basics ie: self love, self esteem, self acceptance, deservedness, courage, confidence, bettering and developing yourself, eating right, getting healthy, getting on your path and purpose, becoming more social, charismatic, non needy, outcome independent, giving yourself permission, assuming value, all the general fundamental universal stuff, would make a great sub that I would buy in a heart beat.

If the sub however is like wait this long to call when he does this, stand this way when this, escalate when this, do this when that, like all the technical crap, which can be extremely helpful, but it all varies person to person and situation to situation, a pua sub like that, where you're literally programming pua techniques and methods into your brain, I think that would be a bad idea and would do someone more harm than good.

Well this is a complicated issue too, though. I mean, you can be all those things but if you stay home 24/7, you won't get any action. So, I understand wanting a nudge in the right direction when it comes to actions to take.

Especially for someone like me who's never had any experience with women, I'm totally lost. I got a number from a girl a while ago, and haven't called. Why? Because I'm self-validated, that's why! lol. See the problem?

If we take it that a) People are turning to subs for help and assistance and b) most of these people are also inexperienced then we can conclude that they will also need to know WHAT to do with the tools that are given to them, rather than just give them validation, outcome independence and what have you. Because I can tell you, it's great to have, but it leaves you isolated from others when you don't know how to use it for your own goals.

It's very hard to explain but believe me when I say: I have NO problems with caring whether I get the girl or not. But that alone hasn't gotten me one yet. I'd much rather get the girl (my goal) and be messed up like most regular guys out there, than be an "alpha" and not get the girl.

If my goal were to simply be alpha, I probably wouldn't care, but my goal from a program like SM was to get women, and that it did not deliver. So I must question it's effectiveness.

Just like if you bought a beautiful car that wouldn't start. If your intention was to have a beautiful car to show off in your driveway, then that's all that matters, but if you intended to use it as a vehicle to get around in, then you'd be wondering what the f*ck was wrong with it, right? lol

I mean I don't think it's unreasonable to not only want the results we're looking for, but to also try and assist in finding them.

Heck, if you go to the mechanic and he's confused about what's wrong with the car, you'll try and help him, won't you?

"Oh, could it be the engine?" lol.

Maybe a sub programming you to use Julien's "method" would be a bad thing, but it would be a change at least. We already know that the vast majority (correct me if I'm wrong) of SM users have not seen the results they wanted, or have not seen an increase in sex (SEXmagnet, ok?). Thus, we have to explore that direction.

When I was approaching women, did I keep doing what didn't work? Sure, but I also tried new things. In the end, you have to move towards what realistically looks like a solution; modelling (I know Tony Robbins talks about this quite a bit) is an effective strategy. AND, if we KNOW a "method" works, why wouldn't we use it?

I didn't mean to insult you, sometimes I just don't know how to drive my point home without sounding like an asshole. I have trouble getting what's in my head out of my head.

It's all good, I have the same problem sometimes.