The What-Is-Not

[Shannon]

This isn't some mumbo jumbo everything is nothing nihilistic "if I say it confusingly enough people will think it's deep" stuff. It's a point so simple, so obvious, that we completely miss it on a daily, hourly and minute by minute and second by second basis. But by understanding this point, you can begin to see the matrix itself.

Is it light? lol
also Shannon, whatever your answer is I'm sure it is very simple and mind bending in its matrix revealing power but I have got to say some of the stuff the guys have said, especially Jay, have been really cool as well. My genuine EXPERIENCE of looking into the fire and letting go of thought is that everything becomes transparent, empty, and yet all woven together, there is a dissolution of observer and observed.
I don't know what I am looking at if I let go of my beliefs. All I know when I look at the flame, I am looking at light, maybe I am seeing something in my mind and not really seeing whatever the flame is.

Also, it may not be the answer your looking for, and it may not have been any intended experience or response in your experiment, but everything is nothing-in the Buddhist sense, is about as far from nihilistic and mumbo jumbo as you can get.

Anyway I give up trying to get an answer but will continue flame gazing on occasion, as it is really fun, thanks for the suggestion and I do look foward to the final revealing of this koan

Oh, jeez, you are SO close to "getting it"... just need to make one more realization, and... click!

I'm not saying the answers that have been posted had no value, they were just far from what I am trying to share. This flame gazing meditation can be used to do many different things. Early in my studies, my first instructor had me gazing at flames all the time, and every time I would be getting a different discovery out of it based on her questions afterwards. You can use a simple candle for many things... it's amazing. I think I spent nearly two years just working with a simple white candle in the evening before she started teaching me using other things.

The "mumbo jumbo" comment was just me becoming exasperated. I really want to explain it to you, but if I do it won't have the same value.