Natural Seduction for Men (NSFM) questions

[Uncle Bob]

yeah this might be true shanon buts the gender war cannot be stopped you can only choose on which side you want to be

That is false, and based on faulty thinking. The gender war can be "won" by the same means as you would eradicate hate. Hate perpetuates hate, so STOP HATING! This back and forth "women hurt/used me, so I'm going to hurt/use them!" begetting "men hurt/used me so I'm going to hurt/use them!" begetting "women hurt/used me, so I'm going to hurt/use them!" is a never ending carousel of stupidity. You know how you stop a war? You outgrow the thinking that started and perpetuated it. And this one will eventually end, if the species does not eradicate itself first, when people understand that just because you are not me does not mean that you have no value or feelings. By your logic, there would never have been an end to the very first war that was ever fought by humans.

and pick up works only for poeple who are good in it and does only harm beginners....

Who, then, got to be good at it without ever being a beginner? Pickup harms the beliefs of the person learning it by teaching them to believe things that are not true ("people only have value for what you can get from them", "women are only worth knowing if you get to **** them", "I can disregard the emotions of a person if I get what I want from them, because their only value is in their sex organs and it doesn't matter if I use them for sex and then walk away", "they and their emotions don't matter", "sex is the only valid goal in life", "it does no harm to a person to be used for sex" and "it does no self harm to use others for sex" being some prime examples)

Women by nature feel in connection with sex. They associate it with emotions and emotional bonding. Those who don't are damaged. So with men, but our society has so brainwashed both genders to believe that men have, and should have, no emotions or emotional value or response, that men consistently self damage by having sex carelessly. And they're so in denial because they've so bought the ***** line about having no emotions or not being allowed to express or accept their own emotions that they self repress to the point of not even seeing the damage they do to themselves by having sex carelessly.

Sex for fun is great, and you can do it safely once in a while, but if she's got to be manipulated into doing it, she was resisting more than likely to defend her emotions from the damage they will suffer if she has sex without regard to them. Like you want her to do.

pick up wont get you love or a girlfriend thats very unlikely to happen pick up will make you good at gettin laid thats it many guys dont understand this... pick up will change you and possible make you unable to love a women or be satisfied with only one women...

If you make "getting laid" your primary goal, you end up with a lot of time spent acting like an animal. No benefit to it but the moment of orgasm, and maybe the street cred you get from others like yourself for being good at manipulating others into having sex with you when they would not have otherwise. It's an empty, valueless activity. Getting laid to get laid is just acting like an animal. It is the primal expression of the genes with no real value, because the results are what? A moment of orgasm? Bragging rights? An STD or a baby? Sex has value as a way of reproducing, and a way of sharing intimacy and bonding emotionally to make a relationship stronger. Otherwise, you're just fooling yourself thinking that having nailed that "10" made any positive difference or mattered at all.

I'm not saying that every time you have sex it has to be the grand end all, be all. I am saying that having your life's goal be to get pussy is a shallow, useless, time wasting goal, taken by itself. It doesn't get you anywhere. It doesn't get you anything. So you ***** a lot of women, so what? So you bedded a lot of "hot girls", so what? At the end of the day, what have you accomplished that you could not have accomplished with your own hands, if the whole point is just ejaculating? Nothing. Instead you've wasted your time and money, and you have nothing of real value to show for it.

You cannot use people for sex alone and really enjoy yourself. Or your life. Or them. And that activity only breeds people who are more and more damaged, cautious, difficult to get, wary, and resentful of the gender who did it because various members of that gender were good enough at manipulation to get them to let their guard down long enough to get used and tossed asside. Then they learn to be wary, harder to get, and they start following the same training you are reading trying to get up on how you did what you did, so they can defend their emotions from you. And then someone has to invent some new technique, and the cycle begins anew.

In the end, you get what out of this? Not a damned thing. Unless maybe you landed yourself an STD or three and maybe a kid.

Sex for fun is great, for an occasional thing. But humans need more than NSA sex.

I have been in your shoes. I did the whole "anything for some pussy" thing. I also know that the best way to get to sex is not PUA.

look at the real pua masters they have no girlfirend or women at all so choose wisley which way you will go...

You mean they've bought their own BS so much and self damaged so much that they're typically incapable of understanding, appreciating or achieving anything but sex only.

if i knew this years ago i wouldnt probably learn pick up but now i have to go this way...

Because you're not getting a new chance to make new choices and decisions, every second of every day. Because someone else is controlling your mind, and you're helpless. Right?

Every single second of every day, you can make hatever choices you want to make, and telling yourself otherwise is a cop out that enables you to have an excuse to do something other than what you know is right. Otherwise you wouldn't have to make up lies to yourself such as, "I don't have any choice in the matter."

If you want to do PUA, do PUA. But own your choice. If you disagree, disagree. But own your choice. And understand that you make your choices, and giving away your power with "I can't," and "I have no choice" and the like is ***** thinking designed to excuse your choice to do something you at some level know isn't the right thing to do.

You want unlimited sex? Make yourself a real alpha, own your truth, and then accept nothing less. The women who will fit your needs will naturally be attracted to you. And you'll have all the pussy you could ever enjoy. You CAN have it all, as long as you're strong and courageous enough to decide what you want, go after it and refuse to accept anything else, or anything less. You'd be absolutely amazed what a woman will do when she trusts you enough. And the best way to gain her trust is to be openly honest, own the truth, do what you say you will and say what you will do.

Thanks for this. This needed to be said, imho. Maybe something similar can be included in the instructions of AM6/SM3? I say this, because I have the subjective impression based on some journals that success in SM3 is measured in "how many" instead of "what quality". For me it was the latter, that's why I am satisfied with the results SM3 ( and I will do it again). I met high quality women with it, because I filtered out the ones that were "obvious affairs", instead I looked for women that have life experience (you can see that in their eyes, whether she is 16 or 46). The downside is, I came close to them only after talking and having some "common experience" outside of bed. Meaning, some kind of emotional bondage possibility had to be checked out by them first (i.e. they did not want an asshole), as you might have hinted at. I also have the advantage that a person close to me is and ever was a natural PUA. He is the most unhappy person I know. I thought, "who would that guy f***?" and ignored those The result was higher quality women, and even wife material. No kidding, there's just the long distance that's a problem. The party chick, bar b*tch or naive babbler need not apply. I give sex only when I get something back, and yes, that has to be something more than I can get by j****** off.

[Uncle Bob]

edit: ah i understand it means "sich die hörner abstoßen " haha yeah it may be true i dont know, thats how i am perceived all the time i dont see myself like this but it maybe true and i just dont realise it

:-)

Edit: "focus on getting your rocks off" Ich würd's übersetzen mit "Es geht Dir drum, dass Dir einer abgeht"

Es sieht halt nun mal so aus, wenn man Deine Journals liest. Und das wird nicht besser, wenn man die Auszüge Deiner Chats hier sieht, die Du öffentlich postest. ;-)

(apprx. Translation: But that's what it looks like, when reading your journals. And that does not look better, when seeing your chat screenshots, your posting for all to see )

[Shawn]

Thanks for this. This needed to be said, imho. Maybe something similar can be included in the instructions of AM6/SM3?

Do you have something special in mind?

[Uncle Bob]

Thanks for this. This needed to be said, imho. Maybe something similar can be included in the instructions of AM6/SM3?

Do you have something special in mind?

No. Just an idea, a few paragraphs in the instructions that quantity isn't quality. But then, it's common knowledge and everybody is responsible for themselves. So it was just a thought. Not necessary.

[AfzalG]

so many germans here,

thats your point of you for me no woman is of extraordinary high value, i guess it comes from the suggestion in wm "Changes your perception so that no single specific woman is of extremely high value because of the perception of scarcity..."

i actually like quantity, quality is hard to define and subjective although i had woman that others would say are woman of one's dreams, for example education, status, looks, or if they are rich for example... but deep inside them they are all the same (little girls and bitches)

humans arent that complex there are only 2 drives survival and reproduction

you used sm for attracting high quality women or wife material interesting logic i think wm is a better choice for that

now for example i am not longer interested in girls under 9 or at least 8.5 if she has a nice personality, i realized that the more beautiful woman have a better personality and character too, i used to think its the other way around but its not, having a real ten as a girlfriend ist something really different than having a 7 with a nice personality, the more beautiful the woman the easier it is to take her bullshit because you know for what you are doing this


yeah i posted these screen to show the forum members whats possible, sex is the most obvious way to see if a woman likes you

but yeah i maybe a bit nymphomanic i guess, i thought this is normal but comparing to other guys it seems not, i have to say shanons subs made me like this and pick up of course (by removing false values and things that hold me back, religious believes and so on) :angel: i used to be a different type of guy but now its ok for me i cant complain looking forward to go on a gang bang party this or next week :angel:

[Uncle Bob]

so many germans here,

thats your point of you for me no woman is of extraordinary high value, i guess it comes from the suggestion in wm "Changes your perception so that no single specific woman is of extremely high value because of the perception of scarcity..."

i actually like quantity, quality is hard to define and subjective although i had woman that others would say are woman of one's dreams, for example education, status, looks, or if they are rich for example... but deep inside them they are all the same (little girls and bitches)

humans arent that complex there are only 2 drives survival and reproduction

you used sm for attracting high quality women or wife material interesting logic i think wm is a better choice for that

now for example i am not longer interested in girls under 9 or at least 8.5 if she has a nice personality, i realized that the more beautiful woman have a better personality and character too, i used to think its the other way around but its not, having a real ten as a girlfriend ist something really different than having a 7 with a nice personality, the more beautiful the woman the easier it is to take her ***** because you know for what you are doing this


yeah i posted these screen to show the forum members whats possible, sex is the most obvious way to see if a woman likes you

but yeah i maybe a bit nymphomanic i guess, i thought this is normal but comparing to other guys it seems not, i have to say shanons subs made me like this and pick up of course (by removing false values and things that hold me back, religious believes and so on) :angel: i used to be a different type of guy but now its ok for me i cant complain looking forward to go on a gang bang party this or next week :angel:

Ok. Only you can know what you want. If that's it, then cool.

As for WM vs SM, I'll see at some future time what's better and to do that I have to try both.

As for the 8/10 or x/10 women, it it is difficult to discuss it, as it is a thing of personal taste. As I said, my PUA friend dates beautiful women, but I just can't stand their type of look and personality. That does not mean they have a bad personality, but I just dislike that kind (and ignore them). Just my preferences that are at work here.

[AfzalG]

yeah i understand your point its not for everyone and i believe you when you say he is pretty unhappy

[Shawn]

Interesting, even with the same sub we get pushed in slightly different directions.

[Shannon]

There are different variables in play. There is the sub, which is a constant, and there is you, which is a unique dynamic variable. Of course there will be slightly different results.

AfzalG, I don't know how to read German, and my German skills are almost non-existent. I was studying the language for a short time, but found that I had to choose between productivity/sleep and learning, and I chose productivity and sleep. I was having to spend a minimum of 2-3 hours a day on it, and it was very exhausting. Hopefully at some point in the future I will be able to do more than ask where the bathroom is.

But, since I don't speak or read German well yet, I'll presume that you had "getting your rocks off" explained and understand it. But I will explain it regardless, just for the sake of clarity and completeness.

It's an English slang term that refers to having an orgasm. It implies that you are interested in having an orgasm, coming, ejaculating, and nothing else. That seems to be your focus: looks and sex. You mention that the more attractive women have better personalities, but then I have found the exact opposite to be largely true, although not universally. I have worked as a modeling photographer, and I have worked with a lot of extremely beautiful women. I think in all the time I did that I met maybe one who had a good personality. The rest were focused on money, their own egos, or both. I was not impressed, and eventually working with the women I was being required to work with got old and I moved on to a different area of photography.

The fact is, the more attractive a woman is, the more guys will train her to be a pain in the ass by telling her how beautiful she is and generally kissing her ass and allowing themselves to be walked on, which frequently gives the most beautiful women a big ego and an attitude to match. They also attract guys who only want sex, and will do and say anything to get it, and that damages them. They come to believe their only value is in their looks and between their legs, and they suffer a lot of emotional damage because of that. The general rule of thumb that results is that the higher a woman goes on the attractiveness scale, the more broken and crazy she is likely to be as a result.

I have dated and slept with women who ranged the gamut of looks, and I have found that the best quality and healthiest women can usually be found between "average" and "attractive, but not stunning" in looks. If all I wanted was a hot woman to impress someone with, I would go after the ones hotter than that. But I don't care who is impressed with the women I choose, and I would rather have women I can trust and who don't flip out on me, don't cheat on me, and who are worth more than a casual fuck.

I think the majority of the reason guys go after the 9's and 10's is because they want to impress some other guy(s). Not because they really care about how hot she is, or her. Take that out of the equation and you open yourself up to a lot of options that are easier to deal with and a lot less hassle in the long run.

I'm done with the hot ones who can't be trusted as far as I can throw them.

[AfzalG]

yeah this might be true but i really think it depends on the sort of character you are

me for expample see that hotter girls react more polite and nicely when approched compared to normal or avaregge girls

[K-Train]

yeah this might be true but i really think it depends on the sort of character you are

me for expample see that hotter girls react more polite and nicely when approched compared to normal or avaregge girls

I've definitely noticed this as well. Average/Normal girls have by far given me the worst responses when directly approached. Now to be fair, I rarely get super harsh rejection. Most of my rejection is simply "I'm not interested" or "I'm sorry but I have a boyfriend" and even when they reject me they give me props on being so direct.

Now AfzalG my opinion on the money thing is this. If you have two guys, who are on par as far as game goes, then hell yeah the dude with more loot is going to have the advantage no question.

Where I would say things get dicey is this. Let's say you have a guy who has a fair share of loot but he sucks in bed, is beta, etc. and he dates/marries a chick. If his chick meets a guy who is alpha, has game, and is handling his business under the sheets I would be willing to bet money that the chick is going to be banging that dude on a regular basis behind (or in a cuckhold situation right in front of) her rich boyfriend/husband.

Oh and it's nice to see ya back man.

@Shannon: Definitely agree with everything you said. That's why I'm not a huge of fan of a lot of the indirect PUA stuff. I'm not saying all of the users of indirect game are bad, by no stretch of the imagination. What I am saying is that there is a good deal of manipulative behavior propagated in the Indirect camp much more than the Direct segment of the PUA population (although there's some shady stuff that goes on there as well).

At the same time though guys, can you really blame some of women? I'm not saying what their doing is right of course, but think about it like this. Suppose you had a bunch of women willing to pay you money for sex. Not in a prostitution/Gigolo type deal. I'm talking about willing to buy you drinks for the possibility of sex with you, offering to pay your bills to have sex with you, putting you in positions of power at a company. You can't tell me there isn't going to be some temptation to take those offers.

[AfzalG]

yeah this might be true but i really think it depends on the sort of character you are

me for expample see that hotter girls react more polite and nicely when approched compared to normal or avaregge girls

I've definitely noticed this as well. Average/Normal girls have by far given me the worst responses when directly approached. Now to be fair, I rarely get super harsh rejection. Most of my rejection is simply "I'm not interested" or "I'm sorry but I have a boyfriend" and even when they reject me they give me props on being so direct.

Now AfzalG my opinion on the money thing is this. If you have two guys, who are on par as far as game goes, then hell yeah the dude with more loot is going to have the advantage no question.

Where I would say things get dicey is this. Let's say you have a guy who has a fair share of loot but he sucks in bed, is beta, etc. and he dates/marries a chick. If his chick meets a guy who is alpha, has game, and is handling his business under the sheets I would be willing to bet money that the chick is going to be banging that dude on a regular basis behind (or in a cuckhold situation right in front of) her rich boyfriend/husband.

Oh and it's nice to see ya back man.

@Shannon: Definitely agree with everything you said. That's why I'm not a huge of fan of a lot of the indirect PUA stuff. I'm not saying all of the users of indirect game are bad, by no stretch of the imagination. What I am saying is that there is a good deal of manipulative behavior propagated in the Indirect camp much more than the Direct segment of the PUA population (although there's some shady stuff that goes on there as well).

At the same time though guys, can you really blame some of women? I'm not saying what their doing is right of course, but think about it like this. Suppose you had a bunch of women willing to pay you money for sex. Not in a prostitution/Gigolo type deal. I'm talking about willing to buy you drinks for the possibility of sex with you, offering to pay your bills to have sex with you, putting you in positions of power at a company. You can't tell me there isn't going to be some temptation to take those offers.

thats exactly what I mean

[Shannon]

I suspect the difference has a lot to do with the country we are each located in, and the locality within our respective countries. German culture and mindset is a lot different than that of the USA, and here, culture and mindset can differ greatly from state to state and city to city within a state. So it may just be that as to why my experiences have been different concerning hot women than yours.

For instance, the city in which I live is very much dominated by closed thinkers. They do what they have always done, and they don't like change. They don't have a real big city mindset, but they want to think of this city as being a big and important city. The result is that we have a lot of soccer-mom-ish women and the night life is virtually non-existent.

Now you travel a couple hours either North or South and you get some good night life in Orlando or West Palm Beach. And if you head West to Tampa, you get one of the porn capitals of Florida, the other being Miami, each four hours away. The mindsets of these latter two cities are much different than even those of WPB or Orlando. It's a free for all and anything goes in Miami and Tampa. Head to Las Vegas, and the mindset is so much further in the anything goes direction that it makes Miami and Orlando look tame. And so on.

[AfzalG]

I suspect the difference has a lot to do with the country we are each located in, and the locality within our respective countries. German culture and mindset is a lot different than that of the USA, and here, culture and mindset can differ greatly from state to state and city to city within a state. So it may just be that as to why my experiences have been different concerning hot women than yours.

For instance, the city in which I live is very much dominated by closed thinkers. They do what they have always done, and they don't like change. They don't have a real big city mindset, but they want to think of this city as being a big and important city. The result is that we have a lot of soccer-mom-ish women and the night life is virtually non-existent.

Now you travel a couple hours either North or South and you get some good night life in Orlando or West Palm Beach. And if you head West to Tampa, you get one of the porn capitals of Florida, the other being Miami, each four hours away. The mindsets of these latter two cities are much different than even those of WPB or Orlando. It's a free for all and anything goes in Miami and Tampa. Head to Las Vegas, and the mindset is so much further in the anything goes direction that it makes Miami and Orlando look tame. And so on.

yeah i think that is very true i remember david deangelo say that men in europe has a lot harder time with women than men in usa "its like ten times harder" he said, also its known that girls in germany are harder than girls in ukraine or crotia for example or other countries in europe... i remember when i was in london i hooked up with a girl nearly every day the women seemed to be so nice and open compared to german women, german women are known for being very difficult and demanding and making puppy dogs of their men...

i also remember the pua paul janka saying that he only paid once for a hookah and this was in europe...

another thing my friends were for an exchange in florida they said man this girls are so "cool and easy its not to compare with girls here" my friends are betas here in germany but hooked up with a lot of girls in usa

also when i go for holiday in serbia belgrad i get like 3-5 conversatiosn with young hot girls every day...

its really weird, girls here are so emancipated and hate confident men or you have to be really confident to get them...

you guys should be lucky to live in america ...