(01-16-2019, 04:57 PM)Shannon Wrote:

(01-16-2019, 04:44 PM)rayrocanaldo Wrote:

(01-16-2019, 02:16 PM)Shannon Wrote:

(01-16-2019, 01:46 PM)rayrocanaldo Wrote:

(01-16-2019, 11:50 AM)Shannon Wrote: If you were to use that wording - "My goal is to have the best possible relationship with X." - then you are not specifying what type of relationship; only that it be the best it can be.

So if X has no romantic or sexual feelings for you, such a request would result in a great friendship, most likely. You are leaving the type of relationship up to X and the universe. It doesn't interfere with that person's free will or life or karma, because the best possible relationship is going to fit whatever "is" for that person and for you. There is no influencing of or taking away freedom of will or freedom of choice.

How can people rape, kill, injure, wound, steal from, hurt( physically), destroy, make sick, enslave, betray, gossip about, etc...people and yet be alive and well. The person has interfered with their victim's will by killing, enslaving, injuring, etc...them. They did in a very real way. Its realer than a thought. A thought is only as real as it is manifested.
It's MUCH worse to do something like this on a physical level than to send someone ( consciously) your desire for friendship or sex or believe a specific person loves you.

Which is worse, Ray? Stabbing someone with a knife, or stabbing them with your words? Most people would assume a knife is worse, but given the right words, the right delivery and the right pair of participants, words can do as much or more damage.

Thoughts are not "only as real as manifested", and in fact that is self evident by virtue of the fact that were that thought "not real" until it was manifest, it could not manifest!

Furthermore, thought alone isn't what we are talking about here. Thought alone isn't effective for manifestation, it requires other factors as well. And just because the damage done is not physical or obvious does not mean it was not done, not damage, not relevant or without consequences.

I know people who get away with violence against others all the time because they are committing mental and emotional violence. The common person does not recognize those things as existing, and has no real idea what damage they do. But if they did no damage, do you suppose that I would have a job?

Just because it's not obvious doesn't mean it's not there.

The law of attraction states that what we think we become. Yet they( coaches, mentors, etc...)give us affirmations to say in front of the mirror, to write down endless affirmations, to keep repeating them during the day, etc...To think means to think. Such as to consider, to make conclusions, to muse about, to ponder, etc...in our minds not verbally. Then the coaches tell us, we must believe we already have what we want. But we got to know what we WANT. By definition, we have to want something yet not want it instead we need to believe it. Ah, the confusion abounds. Then they tell us, we cant take action, we need to wait for inspired action yet they fail to notice people like Thomas edision who failed 1000x before succeeding. The ultimate reason they tell us not to take action is because they think we will fail. So by definition, if we wait for inspired action we will feel amazing letting us know we will succeed. Then they tell us we need to act as if we already have it. But what happens if you want a girlfriend. You have to act like you left her home when you go out because you couldnt possibly act as if you are with your girlfriend at the mall. When you watch tv, you leave a special seat next to you for your girl? If that's too much perhaps you should have body language like you already have a girl. But seriously how many types of body languages exist?
Then they tell us we need to feel like we already got what we want yet we have never experienced it once in our lives.
What happens if your mother comes around and asks you if you have a girlfriend? Are you supposed to say " Of course, I have her. I can feel it, I do." Even the most hardcore law of attraction fan would see there is something wrong in what you are saying.
They say we cannot ask " How", we must always believe it will happen. We cannot want or need something because somehow the universe will not give it to us. We have told to ignore the future. We are told that our negativity is blocking manifestation and to avoid it all cost and that we must clear it all before we can successfully manifest. And there is more...

Now no coach has ever said it like that but that's what it is. Thats the state of affair of the law of attraction community as of 2019.

Ray, just because you don't understand what the Law of Attraction, and the other laws are saying, or how to use them, doesn't make me wrong. And what you are arguing has nothing to do with the seminal point, which is... never take away the free will or freedom of choice of another person using energy manipulation or manifestation.

However...

The LOA is easy to use. There are only really four things you need: specific knowledge of what you want, sufficient focus, sufficient energy and sufficient emotional involvement. The biggest problems people have is that they are afraid of the process. They disrupt their own success (presuming they did the rest right) by trying too hard to control the outcome consciously.

The concept is, you already have whatever it is you want in some possible future. You just have to focus on that future to experience it, and you do that by attuning to it, which is done by experiencing the desired outcome as already being obtained. You automatically "vibrate" at the frequency that results in that outcome when you do that because it is the only outcome that matches that tuning. So you have to in effect project yourself into that future by experiencing it as having already happened in your mind and imagination, and experiencing the emotional states and especially gratitude that having that outcome brings.

I have tried to explain this to you in the past.

(01-16-2019, 06:27 PM)rayrocanaldo Wrote:

(01-16-2019, 04:57 PM)Shannon Wrote:

(01-16-2019, 04:44 PM)rayrocanaldo Wrote:

(01-16-2019, 02:16 PM)Shannon Wrote:

(01-16-2019, 01:46 PM)rayrocanaldo Wrote: How can people rape, kill, injure, wound, steal from, hurt( physically), destroy, make sick, enslave, betray, gossip about, etc...people and yet be alive and well. The person has interfered with their victim's will by killing, enslaving, injuring, etc...them. They did in a very real way. Its realer than a thought. A thought is only as real as it is manifested.
It's MUCH worse to do something like this on a physical level than to send someone ( consciously) your desire for friendship or sex or believe a specific person loves you.

Which is worse, Ray? Stabbing someone with a knife, or stabbing them with your words? Most people would assume a knife is worse, but given the right words, the right delivery and the right pair of participants, words can do as much or more damage.

Thoughts are not "only as real as manifested", and in fact that is self evident by virtue of the fact that were that thought "not real" until it was manifest, it could not manifest!

Furthermore, thought alone isn't what we are talking about here. Thought alone isn't effective for manifestation, it requires other factors as well. And just because the damage done is not physical or obvious does not mean it was not done, not damage, not relevant or without consequences.

I know people who get away with violence against others all the time because they are committing mental and emotional violence. The common person does not recognize those things as existing, and has no real idea what damage they do. But if they did no damage, do you suppose that I would have a job?

Just because it's not obvious doesn't mean it's not there.

The law of attraction states that what we think we become. Yet they( coaches, mentors, etc...)give us affirmations to say in front of the mirror, to write down endless affirmations, to keep repeating them during the day, etc...To think means to think. Such as to consider, to make conclusions, to muse about, to ponder, etc...in our minds not verbally. Then the coaches tell us, we must believe we already have what we want. But we got to know what we WANT. By definition, we have to want something yet not want it instead we need to believe it. Ah, the confusion abounds. Then they tell us, we cant take action, we need to wait for inspired action yet they fail to notice people like Thomas edision who failed 1000x before succeeding. The ultimate reason they tell us not to take action is because they think we will fail. So by definition, if we wait for inspired action we will feel amazing letting us know we will succeed. Then they tell us we need to act as if we already have it. But what happens if you want a girlfriend. You have to act like you left her home when you go out because you couldnt possibly act as if you are with your girlfriend at the mall. When you watch tv, you leave a special seat next to you for your girl? If that's too much perhaps you should have body language like you already have a girl. But seriously how many types of body languages exist?
Then they tell us we need to feel like we already got what we want yet we have never experienced it once in our lives.
What happens if your mother comes around and asks you if you have a girlfriend? Are you supposed to say " Of course, I have her. I can feel it, I do." Even the most hardcore law of attraction fan would see there is something wrong in what you are saying.
They say we cannot ask " How", we must always believe it will happen. We cannot want or need something because somehow the universe will not give it to us. We have told to ignore the future. We are told that our negativity is blocking manifestation and to avoid it all cost and that we must clear it all before we can successfully manifest. And there is more...

Now no coach has ever said it like that but that's what it is. Thats the state of affair of the law of attraction community as of 2019.

Ray, just because you don't understand what the Law of Attraction, and the other laws are saying, or how to use them, doesn't make me wrong. And what you are arguing has nothing to do with the seminal point, which is... never take away the free will or freedom of choice of another person using energy manipulation or manifestation.

However...

The LOA is easy to use. There are only really four things you need: specific knowledge of what you want, sufficient focus, sufficient energy and sufficient emotional involvement. The biggest problems people have is that they are afraid of the process. They disrupt their own success (presuming they did the rest right) by trying too hard to control the outcome consciously.

The concept is, you already have whatever it is you want in some possible future. You just have to focus on that future to experience it, and you do that by attuning to it, which is done by experiencing the desired outcome as already being obtained. You automatically "vibrate" at the frequency that results in that outcome when you do that because it is the only outcome that matches that tuning. So you have to in effect project yourself into that future by experiencing it as having already happened in your mind and imagination, and experiencing the emotional states and especially gratitude that having that outcome brings.

I have tried to explain this to you in the past.

I think the reason why everybody in the law of attraction community as a whole everywhere on the internet have readily accepted the way of applying LOA ( not LOA itself, just the methods of how to apply it) is because everybody is saying the same thing. And people have experienced a bit of success with it. That's it. Everybody is saying it. It sounds like what they are saying is true. There are tons of books stating what everybody else is saying with a few twist. How many people who have consciously applied LOA have become millionaires and billionaires or celebrities for that matter?

Quote:None, except Oprah or Jim Carrey.

Quote:But even if you consider them, the success rate is very low in the whole community everywhere on the internet. Its like being attracting girls. Everybody is saying the same things or the underlying messages are similar. Because the experts are saying this and everybody else who is into it is saying this.

Quote:The people are simply saying what the experts are saying. They have done no wrong. Thats what you are supposed to do when you want to learn something.
I have decided to think independently of coaches. I want to find my own way of using it. Frankly, I already have it but I cant use it right now because I have to finish something else first. Then I will go apply it and focus on getting women.

(01-16-2019, 07:22 PM)Shannon Wrote:

(01-16-2019, 06:27 PM)rayrocanaldo Wrote:

(01-16-2019, 04:57 PM)Shannon Wrote:

(01-16-2019, 04:44 PM)rayrocanaldo Wrote:

(01-16-2019, 02:16 PM)Shannon Wrote: Which is worse, Ray? Stabbing someone with a knife, or stabbing them with your words? Most people would assume a knife is worse, but given the right words, the right delivery and the right pair of participants, words can do as much or more damage.

Thoughts are not "only as real as manifested", and in fact that is self evident by virtue of the fact that were that thought "not real" until it was manifest, it could not manifest!

Furthermore, thought alone isn't what we are talking about here. Thought alone isn't effective for manifestation, it requires other factors as well. And just because the damage done is not physical or obvious does not mean it was not done, not damage, not relevant or without consequences.

I know people who get away with violence against others all the time because they are committing mental and emotional violence. The common person does not recognize those things as existing, and has no real idea what damage they do. But if they did no damage, do you suppose that I would have a job?

Just because it's not obvious doesn't mean it's not there.

The law of attraction states that what we think we become. Yet they( coaches, mentors, etc...)give us affirmations to say in front of the mirror, to write down endless affirmations, to keep repeating them during the day, etc...To think means to think. Such as to consider, to make conclusions, to muse about, to ponder, etc...in our minds not verbally. Then the coaches tell us, we must believe we already have what we want. But we got to know what we WANT. By definition, we have to want something yet not want it instead we need to believe it. Ah, the confusion abounds. Then they tell us, we cant take action, we need to wait for inspired action yet they fail to notice people like Thomas edision who failed 1000x before succeeding. The ultimate reason they tell us not to take action is because they think we will fail. So by definition, if we wait for inspired action we will feel amazing letting us know we will succeed. Then they tell us we need to act as if we already have it. But what happens if you want a girlfriend. You have to act like you left her home when you go out because you couldnt possibly act as if you are with your girlfriend at the mall. When you watch tv, you leave a special seat next to you for your girl? If that's too much perhaps you should have body language like you already have a girl. But seriously how many types of body languages exist?
Then they tell us we need to feel like we already got what we want yet we have never experienced it once in our lives.
What happens if your mother comes around and asks you if you have a girlfriend? Are you supposed to say " Of course, I have her. I can feel it, I do." Even the most hardcore law of attraction fan would see there is something wrong in what you are saying.
They say we cannot ask " How", we must always believe it will happen. We cannot want or need something because somehow the universe will not give it to us. We have told to ignore the future. We are told that our negativity is blocking manifestation and to avoid it all cost and that we must clear it all before we can successfully manifest. And there is more...

Now no coach has ever said it like that but that's what it is. Thats the state of affair of the law of attraction community as of 2019.

Ray, just because you don't understand what the Law of Attraction, and the other laws are saying, or how to use them, doesn't make me wrong. And what you are arguing has nothing to do with the seminal point, which is... never take away the free will or freedom of choice of another person using energy manipulation or manifestation.

However...

The LOA is easy to use. There are only really four things you need: specific knowledge of what you want, sufficient focus, sufficient energy and sufficient emotional involvement. The biggest problems people have is that they are afraid of the process. They disrupt their own success (presuming they did the rest right) by trying too hard to control the outcome consciously.

The concept is, you already have whatever it is you want in some possible future. You just have to focus on that future to experience it, and you do that by attuning to it, which is done by experiencing the desired outcome as already being obtained. You automatically "vibrate" at the frequency that results in that outcome when you do that because it is the only outcome that matches that tuning. So you have to in effect project yourself into that future by experiencing it as having already happened in your mind and imagination, and experiencing the emotional states and especially gratitude that having that outcome brings.

I have tried to explain this to you in the past.

I think the reason why everybody in the law of attraction community as a whole everywhere on the internet have readily accepted the way of applying LOA ( not LOA itself, just the methods of how to apply it) is because everybody is saying the same thing. And people have experienced a bit of success with it. That's it. Everybody is saying it. It sounds like what they are saying is true. There are tons of books stating what everybody else is saying with a few twist. How many people who have consciously applied LOA have become millionaires and billionaires or celebrities for that matter?

Who cares? It does not follow that doing so is necessary for the LOA to be valid. It does not have to prove itself to you, nor do so in any particular manner.

Quote:None, except Oprah or Jim Carrey.

So you just asserted in a single sentence that nobody has, and then defeated your own argument by providing not one, but two examples that prove your point wrong. Might I add that just because you don't know about the rest, does not mean they do not exist. They do exist, some of whom have made it known, and some of whom are not widely sharing how they achieved their goals. Assumption is the mother of all ****-ups, Ray.

Quote:But even if you consider them, the success rate is very low in the whole community everywhere on the internet. Its like being attracting girls. Everybody is saying the same things or the underlying messages are similar. Because the experts are saying this and everybody else who is into it is saying this.

The success rate is exactly as high as the process is being done correctly. That is the law. You follow the law, or you do not activate it. Many know how to do it. Few can get past their own fears of doing so. Which would be why I am still working on the fear removal module. People are afraid of achieving success, among other things, and those who are find ways to self sabotage. It is simply a convenience from there to blame the law of attraction for their own intentional failure - once again, presuming they did the right things in the first place. Many misunderstand the requirements, no matter how many times the "experts" try to explain it. Case in point.

Quote:The people are simply saying what the experts are saying. They have done no wrong. Thats what you are supposed to do when you want to learn something.
I have decided to think independently of coaches. I want to find my own way of using it. Frankly, I already have it but I cant use it right now because I have to finish something else first. Then I will go apply it and focus on getting women.

And all of this has what to do with the original assertion I made that you should never take away someone's free will? Unless I touched on a nerve because that's what you're doing and/or planning to do with it.

There are reasons for that rule (never take away someone's free will with the law of attraction or energy manipulation). If you care to find out the hard way what those reasons are, be my guest. Don't say I didn't warn you. If you even realize what happens if you break it.

(01-16-2019, 08:43 PM)Shannon Wrote: It's only difficult to use if you make it so.

(01-16-2019, 10:43 PM)MasterEnki Wrote: I’ve been a lurker on many a LoA forums, and they have some great ideas like vision boards, make your own inspirational movie (usually slideshow of pictures of what you want to manifest / experience) and watch it daily, among the usual methods like affirmations and visualisation, etc.

On the other hand, many of the LoA forums members have a terrible mindset. Seriously, look at all those ‘how can I use LoA to get my ex back’ threads!! Seems that the LoA community is full of sad, depressed individuals that have no life, and are way too needy / desperate.

Though, some of the LoA forums members had healthy mindsets though. Between the ‘get ex back crowd’, there were the ‘maybe it is better to let go, and move on’ people, etc. And quite a few dudes were using LoA to get a pay rise / bank account boost.

I remember one woman successfully manifested a boyfriend by using LoA. She said she did lots of visualisation for a few months, then gave up and moved on to try manifest something else, and then a couple of months later, she met a handsome (to her) guy who seduced her and wanted to be her boyfriend.


I reckon if you manifest a relationship with a specific person, it will probably be artificial / unnatural, and will automatically fall apart once the ‘manifestation energy’ runs out (once the subconscious, or whatever, stops powering the manifestation).

I’m pretty sure that, if you try manifest a relationship with a ‘perfect for you’ partner, or a DMSI target that naturally finds you sexy / attractive, then the relationship is likely to last, since it is natural.


Manifestation / LoA is quite fascinating!

I definitely want to learn more about manifestation / LoA!


Though I think deeply held beliefs / mindsets can manifest stuff also. Consider that dude who always seems to win money, get given money, and find money everywhere, and random strangers offer him high paying jobs, and so on.

And the dude’s friend who is always in debt, and loses money, and gets robbed, and accidentally drops his wallet down the drain, and gets unexpected parking fines, and his dog gets sick and needs to go to the vet who charges significant amounts of money, and his appliances randomly break for no apparent reason, and so on.


Edit: Also, gratitude seems to be very important (as Shannon and others suggested).

I have a friend who has always had heaps of FWBs, lovers and girlfriends, and when I asked him for advice he said “women have always just fallen into my lap. I didn’t try at all. I made no effort. I never bothered to question why, I was just grateful.”

(01-17-2019, 04:49 PM)Shadow2200 Wrote: I wonder if 4.4 anti fear mod dmsi be out today