+- Subliminal Talk (https://subliminal-talk.com)
+-- Forum: Website and Subliminal Feedback (https://subliminal-talk.com/Forum-Website-and-Subliminal-Feedback)
+--- Forum: Frequently Asked Questions & Resources (FAQ) (https://subliminal-talk.com/Forum-Frequently-Asked-Questions-Resources-FAQ)
+--- Thread: Are the results of single stage subliminal programs permanent? (/Thread-Are-the-results-of-single-stage-subliminal-programs-permanent)
Pages:
1
2
Are the results of single stage subliminal programs permanent? - ffaux - 07-26-2015
I have observed that a lot of people experience a fading of the effects of single stage subliminal programs after they stop listening to them. How permanent are the effects of single stage programs? Are they designed to make permanent changes and if so how? Or maybe the right question is: What can we do to make the effects of a single stage program permanent? What does it take?
RE: Are the results of single stage subliminal programs permanent? - CatMan - 07-26-2015
A lot of people seem to do the minimum amount of time, and then jump onto something else. Jumping from one thing to the other, all doing the minimum time listed, sometimes even less than the minimum. So the chances of the sub being etched into their mind is low as a result. Had they have had the patience to devote to it, and done it for either the maximum listed time, or the commonly recommended by Shannon, "use until 32 days after you last experience growth", then permanency would be occuring much more often with single stages.
You can absolutely have permanent results with single stages. The amount of hours daily, and the amount of days spent on it, largely determine the chances of that.
RE: Are the results of single stage subliminal programs permanent? - LionKing - 07-26-2015
"until the results become self-replicating", or what was the term Shannon has been using some times? That's sounds fairly permanent, but idk if that's a 5G/OE thing or not..
RE: Are the results of single stage subliminal programs permanent? - CatMan - 07-27-2015
Hi LK!
It's for all subs. He's had guys who ran the first AM course and still have it with them perfectly after all these years. Other guys needed to run the newest version each time to really burn it in. Everyone is different, but each sub can give the result with dedication. Naturally, he's said that with each revision/generation, the chances of permanency go up and generally can happen quicker. Which makes sense, naturally SM3 would be able to give more permanency and do more for you in general, than SM1.
RE: Are the results of single stage subliminal programs permanent? - Joronda - 07-28-2015
If you don't ride a bike for 40 years, you can get back on a bike and pedal down the road.
I don't think you will forget what you have learned from a sub, but if you are working with a new sub, then the old sub might take back seat for awhile until you do a refresher run through.
The mind prefers to focus on one Target at a time.
ASC is a pretty good sub to enhance your grip on life, and if you spend 100 days on that one, it will be easier to get results from the subs that follow.
RE: Are the results of single stage subliminal programs permanent? - Shannon - 07-29-2015
See "Snowdrift Theory".
RE: Are the results of single stage subliminal programs permanent? - GlaizenGold777 - 07-29-2015
:: Snowdrift Theory Analogy by Shannon ::
(04-26-2015, 03:19 AM)Shannon Wrote:(04-25-2015, 11:01 PM)Jakeb203 Wrote: Hi,
I have just finished running BASE 5G, now doing the refresher run of AM6.
It gets into my head a little as I was thinking about the purpose of running different multistages sub. For example I have just finished running BASE, and I am planning to run SM3, maybe AM6 and another run of BASE after that. I think that Shannon has said sometime in the past that you mind will only be occupied by the dominant programming at the time. So does that mean previous run-throughs of other programs will not have any effects whatsoever? I kind of don't get the point why I have to insist in running if I don't see any long term effects. Like your programming is always been replaced by another, but not being merged as one whole. I mean, some of the effects from BASE are simply awesome, I love the part in the communication areas where I am obviously 30x better at socializing than I had ran it previously. All I hope is that those effects can last and be able to carry to future programs.
Hope Shannon can clarify this, also want to hear from you.
Let's say you run BASE 5G. You finish the program, and now you have six months of BASE programming swimming in your subconscious mind. It is of course best to take a short break, to allow that programming to set. Say, a week or two.
Then you start on AM6 Refresher. This should mean you've run through all of AM6 at least once. So you start on the refresher.
The currently dominant programming will be whichever piles of input have the most repetitions at the moment. Let's use my snowdrift theory analogy. Each repetition of something you are exposed to is noted and recorded by your subconscious mind, and it is like a single snowflake. By itself, not very impressive, or important. But you get enough of them together and they can break through a building's roof and even crush the entire building.
So the subliminal is hitting your subconscious with massive repetitions. Let's say that normal every day life is a light constant snowfall, and each unique type of snowflake may take years, even decades, to form a significant pile for the purposes of dominant programming. But a subliminal represents a constant blizzard, but only specific shapes of snowflake are raining down, and only on certain spots.
So now let's say you've done a six stage program. What has happened is that for that program's Master Key Script, you have introduced, let's hypothesize, 180,000,000 repetitions (snowflakes) of each statement in that script. Let's say there are 125 statements, and so now we have 125 huge piles of snowflakes that dominate your subconscious and conscious operating system in whatever categories they fall into (no pun intended). They have the most repetitions, they are the dominant piles.
Now let's say you start a new six stage program. Suddenly, the blizzard is coming down again, but this time on a different set of piles, and maybe a small area of overlap. Let's say they both include the OGSF script.
So what happens is that the focus shifts to the new blizzard, because it's active. And the piles it's falling on may be close to dominant, or dominant in their categories already, and whichever piles the two blizzards shared (types of snowflake/common statements) will be becoming doubly dominant.
So what gets the focus is first, what is receiving the most snowfall (the most active statements with the most repetitions) because that's where the processing power and attention is going. And secondly, where is already dominant, because that's what the system is currently running on.
So it is entirely possible that the snow piles from say BASE statement 25, 100 and 112 are the biggest in their category, and are dominant programming, and they are what you are "running on", but if the input is falling on AM6 statements 1 through 125, and only 12 of those statements overlap, then the focus is going to be first on those statements that are actively receiving snowfall (repetitions) AND which overlap, and then on those statements which are actively receiving snowfall but do not overlap, but are still dominant within their category from the last run. And then it would be the actively accumulating non-dominant programming from the categories within AM6, and then the dominant programming not receiving attention.
This may not make sense. Why would non-dominant programming piles take precedence over dominant ones? Well, if the dominant ones are inactive, and are either self regenerating or fading out, they are still not receiving new input at the same rate as the active but non-dominant piles. The act of inputting that data, deciphering it and processing it makes the focus on it, and that makes it dominant in a way because while it is not the most large pile, it still has the most focus, processing power and attention on it.
So It's kind of like a set of steps. You take a step up with one foot with AM6, and then you take another step up with BASE, and you have both steps that will support you. The BASE programming will be there supporting you as long as it is dominant, even if it is inactive, and it may not necessarily be obvious while you are focusing on input from AM6, but it is still running and active in the operating system. While you're receiving AM6 programming, the system is busy processing the input and focusing on it, so it is more obvious. Even if it's not yet permanent.
The only case where this is not the case is when one script directly contradicts another. In that case, the same category of statement/snowflake is getting competition from one or more other focus points. So if you are talking about, say, gender focus as the issue, and one pile is masculinizing and one is feminizing, then whichever one is active will have focus, but will be fighting the effects of the other pile that contradicts it.
Hope that makes sense. I haven't been to bed yet, and I'm not sure it will explain things satisfactorily, but if not just let me know and when I have had some more sleep, I'll try to clarify again.
***
(04-26-2015, 11:37 AM)QuantumEnthusiast Wrote:(04-26-2015, 08:19 AM)jonathan4all Wrote: I wish someone can rephrase it genuinely ...What shannon is saying from what I understand is this.
Going from most dominant/obvious programming to least:
1. Let's say you listen to BASE then AM. The most dominant or obvious programming would be the programming that BOTH of those programs helped with. Meaning if they both had repeated statements for OGSF, that'll be the most obvious programming because BOTH programs contributed to this programming.
2. The programming that's obvious secondly is the programming of any sub you've run before, eg. Overcoming Fear, that is being added on to by the current run of AM with overlapping categories.
Meaning, OF and AM have overlapping programming/categories, so it's the next dominant/obvious programming.
3. What would be noted next is the programming that is UNIQUE to the second sub that you're listening to, in this case AM. Meaning, the programming/categories that is unique to AM and doesn't overlap with any other subs are what's dominant/obvious next.
4. Lastly comes the programming that is UNIQUE to BASE that are active but not getting any attention from the currently running AM sub.
All the programming is active, just that the programming that has statements/categories overlapping with previously run subs will be more obvious than the statements/categories that are unique to whatever sub you're running currently, which is more obvious than the statements/categories that are unique to previously run sub.
To put it simply: Overlapping categories > Unique categories of current subs > Unique categories of previously run sub
***
(04-26-2015, 10:50 PM)QuantumEnthusiast Wrote:(04-26-2015, 10:39 PM)Jakeb203 Wrote: It would be good if Shannon can further elaborate on what it means to have scripts "crushing the entire building".
Also, is there possibly anyway to get all the scripts active at the same time? Running multiple times of one particular sub seems one possible way, just wondering if there are any others. Stuff like running back to back or running at a particular combo.
I think he was just trying to emphasize on the idea of 'strength in numbers'. The category that was exposed to the highest number of repetitions is the one that is most dominant/obvious. I don't think that what he meant by "crushing the entire building" as the subconscious being crushed by too many repetitions of a statement.
I believe he meant that all the scripts/programming are always active, just that whatever categories that has the most programming and whatever sub you're running currently would be more obviously active than the others.
Correct me if I'm wrong
***
(04-27-2015, 01:01 AM)Shannon Wrote:(04-26-2015, 08:05 AM)Jakeb203 Wrote: Thank you.
So I can simply interpret it as that your past programming from other programs will exist, but not an obvious one? And that the more run-thourghs you have over years, the more obvious the past programming becomes evident?
Let's say if we want to have both AM6 and BASE being dominant at the same time, does that mean we have to run them both to an extent that all scripts become regenerating? Would that be possible, or if certain scripts cannot simply regenerate.
Basically, once it becomes self generating, and self regenerating, it IS you. That's why I never need to run AM again. I have achieved the goal. Maybe some point in the future, I will run it anyway, but I've achieved my goals and it is now me. It is now self generating and self regenerating. Even though I am running BAMM 2.0 for more than 2 years straight.
But what I am saying is that whole you may have specific dominant programming, it may not be what is currently being focused on, and therefore may seem like it is not there, or not obvious.
***
(04-27-2015, 01:05 AM)Shannon Wrote: Running enough times through to make it catch without negating it, will make all scripts dominant. Like me with AM and BAMM.
:: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: :: ::
RE: Are the results of single stage subliminal programs permanent? - LionKing - 07-30-2015
I wonder how resistance fits in with the snowflake theory? Does it melt the flakes as they're falling or does it just mean that there is another negative pile that higher from past experiences that's keeping the positive pile from becoming dominant yet, e.g. "I am only safe if I'm quiet" still has more flakes than "I can do, say, be or achieve anything"? If its the latter, then what happens to the negative pile once the positive one gets enough reps to become dominant? Fades due to not being used I guess?
This relates to how important it'd be to run "cleanser subs" like EPRHA or OF before multi-stages in the hopes having less resistance vs. just running the multi-stage twice.
RE: Are the results of single stage subliminal programs permanent? - Shannon - 07-31-2015
I'll be more specific.
Once you have enough repetitions for a statement/subliminal to become expressed, it begins self generating. And once it's strong enough to self generate all the time, it becomes self regenerating. That is to say, it keeps itself alive. Becomes self creating and self reinforcing.
This happens because the conscious mind becomes involved not just in observing, but expressing, and comes to expect the programming sooner or later. Once the conscious mind accepts and then expresses and expects the programming, it will act as a means for reinforcing that programming. It actually makes it stronger.
Resistance is an effort to resist the programming that is incoming or being generated by the incoming suggestions (snowflakes). It doesn't negate them, you still have the proverbial pile of snowflakes being created. What happens is that the being-created pile conflicts with the pile(s) generating the resistance, which causes internal response that acts against the pile being created. This does not stop the new pile from growing unless you stop using the program, and that is why there is resistance in many cases: the subconscious mind knows that, sooner or later, the new programming will take top spot, and what exists now as dominant programming will be overridden and replaced.
One of the first serious experiments I did with subliminals demonstrated this, in fact. It was my experiment to manifest my perfect lover. It generated in me, for a few days, intense anxiety and discomfort because some part of my subconscious mind was running on programming that was telling me that my desires did not matter when it came to women, and that I should accept whatever woman wanted me instead of trying to find what I liked and wanted in a woman. This programming came from my mother, and it was extremely uncomfortable for me to force myself to go through the resistance that resulted. But for the sake of the experiment, I did. In about 4-5 days, it subsided, was overwritten, and then allowed me to find and meet my perfect lover.
Some types of resistance or things that are being resisted require a lot more time, repetition and power to overwrite.
As for permanence, considering what I have said above, think on this. Two of the programs that have given me trouble for a long, long time because of this are stop smoking and weight loss. These two topics also happen to both have people demonstrating what I was saying earlier about the issue becoming consciously accepted, expected and self re-created. I have seen a number of people use the weight loss program and comment, as they lose weight, that it is "wierd" to be losing weight. I heard it just the other day, in fact. This sensation of "wierdness" comes from the fact that the conscious mind expects to act in the manner that was previously "normal". It and the results of it have become so normalized that they become part of the self identity. "I am fat." or "I am a smoker." This conscious response can actually act as resistance, and if it is successful in this regard, will actually regenerate the previous subconscious program over time.
Once the new programming has become so ingrained in the subconscious that it has become expressed constantly and consistently, the conscious mind adjusts and over time, this becomes the new normal. The conscious and subconscious, in effect, work to support each others' programming in such a way that it resists change this way.
But again, if the subconscious program changes, the conscious may resist for a time. Eventually it will become the norm, and is no longer resisted. Once this happens, the conscious expects it, and it becomes a self regenerated and self supporting reality: the new you.
RE: Are the results of single stage subliminal programs permanent? - LionKing - 08-01-2015
Love to have some graphical representations and metaphores for things, that's I loved physics at school but didn't care so much about mathematics.
(07-31-2015, 11:51 PM)Shannon Wrote: ... This sensation of "wierdness" comes from the fact that the conscious mind expects to act in the manner that was previously "normal". It and the results of it have become so normalized that they become part of the self identity. "I am fat." or "I am a smoker." This conscious response can actually act as resistance, and if it is successful in this regard, will actually regenerate the previous subconscious program over time.
So, there could be a situation where a user is consciously following e.g. dating advice from somewhere else and then running AM/SM/WM. Maybe the user has consciously chosen to be "direct" (SM) and the subliminal is telling him to have no agenda when socializing (AM, WM). Or he has consciously internalized that he needs to go out several times a week in order learn this skill of socializing through many repetitions in varying circumstances, whereas the subliminal is telling him that he doesn't need anyone else / he should just enjoy his own company or something that ends up at least de-motivating the user's conscious goals. So in this situation, with constant subliminal input, the user would consciously regenerate a behavior that resist the subliminal, until perhaps at some point the user would "give up" and let the subliminal suggestions be expressed (and likely feel that he didn't have the willpower to do what he wanted to)? This is not a complaint, btw, just making sure I understand this. The AM/SM/WM scripts are not available, so I'm not completely sure what behaviors would be acting against the programming, and therefore creating resistance. I guess I'll read Alexander's AM book again.
(07-31-2015, 11:51 PM)Shannon Wrote: One of the first serious experiments I did with subliminals demonstrated this, in fact. It was my experiment to manifest my perfect lover. It generated in me, for a few days, intense anxiety and discomfort because some part of my subconscious mind was running on programming that was telling me that my desires did not matter when it came to women, and that I should accept whatever woman wanted me instead of trying to find what I liked and wanted in a woman. This programming came from my mother, and it was extremely uncomfortable for me to force myself to go through the resistance that resulted. But for the sake of the experiment, I did. In about 4-5 days, it subsided, was overwritten, and then allowed me to find and meet my perfect lover.
This makes me think that if one would run SM and not be completely pleased with the quality of women he was attracting, it might be a good idea to run Manifest Your Perfect Sexual Lover for a month to clear any resistance of the kind you mentioned. During his next run of SM he could then maybe attract more "perfect" sexual lovers to him?
RE: Are the results of single stage subliminal programs permanent? - apollolux - 08-01-2015
(07-31-2015, 11:51 PM)Shannon Wrote: One of the first serious experiments I did with subliminals demonstrated this, in fact. It was my experiment to manifest my perfect lover. It generated in me, for a few days, intense anxiety and discomfort because some part of my subconscious mind was running on programming that was telling me that my desires did not matter when it came to women, and that I should accept whatever woman wanted me instead of trying to find what I liked and wanted in a woman. This programming came from my mother, and it was extremely uncomfortable for me to force myself to go through the resistance that resulted. But for the sake of the experiment, I did. In about 4-5 days, it subsided, was overwritten, and then allowed me to find and meet my perfect lover.
(emphases mine) This hits the nail on the head for me for one of my issues, and I feel that this is becoming more and more common nowadays, not just because of parents but also because of other people. Thank you again, Shannon, for finding a way to pinpoint this important one and teaching us all how to break through it!
RE: Are the results of single stage subliminal programs permanent? - CatMan - 08-02-2015
(08-01-2015, 09:10 AM)apollolux Wrote: some part of my subconscious mind was running on programming that was telling me that my desires did not matter when it came to women, and that I should accept whatever woman wanted me instead of trying to find what I liked and wanted in a woman.
(emphases mine) This hits the nail on the head for me for one of my issues, and I feel that this is becoming more and more common nowadays, not just because of parents but also because of other people. Thank you again, Shannon, for finding a way to pinpoint this important one and teaching us all how to break through it!
You are absolutely correct. A combination of Feminazism, single parents (moms), divorce spam (initiated almost always by women, even though almost every time it's the women pushing for the ring to BEGIN with...). Combined with two career households (translation: being raised largely by mom), female-centric education system (majority of teachers are females, and push female double standards and feminist policies from the government). As well as movies and TV shows pushing the pedestalisation of women even from a young age, create needy, clingy, pedestalising beta males trying to buy women's affection and putting them on pedestals as it's all they've been taught to do. It's ironic, women push men to become this, but yet are recoiling in disgust at those kinds of guys. It's weird! It's like, they think they know what they want, but apparently they don't. It's also interesting to me...that the feminist movement does everything in it's power to stamp out any TINY, stupid nonsense, indirect claim that women "need" men in any way (even though it's obvious our genders are built by evolution to support and add to eachother, but don't tell a feminist that, they don't live in reality), but yet conveniently do nothing about alimony, probably the biggest symbol women "need" men for at least financially, to ruin daily in divorce courts. It's always amazed me how women conveniently haven't gotten around to getting rid of alimony if they're so strong and independent and "don't need men", hmm...interesting...nevermind when they trap men into having kids and make them pay for those too. Strong and independent, hmm.
Women being raised on that dysfunctional one-sided culture, over time develop a big chip on their shoulder, a major sense of entitlement and superiority, a huge overvaluing of themselves (only realising often too late in life that they aren't really anything special), and generally treat men as disposable trash. What a screwed up situation. No wonder we have so many lost people, figuring out what they're supposed to do as their gender far FAR into adulthood when this stuff should've been taught to them when they were like 12.
Looks like we need to continue this idiotic failed social experiment in the west, a decade or two longer until people get the message that it's doomed and feminism can never, and HAS never, survived on it's own two feet on it's own merit, without MASSIVE help forcing it in through laws and forcing it down men's throats with public shaming if you don't tow the line and continue the worship of women with double standard special rights and priviledges feminists call "equality", and beta male behaviour...I wish I learned about these subs etc. back when I was a kid, would've kept me from being really screwed over by women despite doing what they claimed to want from a guy...I'm 33 now, better now than never I guess.
We are all very fortunate to have these resources at our disposal and to talk to eachother and network and support one another in our quests to change our lives.
RE: Are the results of single stage subliminal programs permanent? - LionKing - 08-02-2015
(07-31-2015, 11:51 PM)Shannon Wrote: ... manifest my perfect lover. It generated in me, for a few days, intense anxiety and discomfort because some part of my subconscious mind was running on programming that was telling me that my desires did not matter when it came to women, and that I should accept whatever woman wanted me instead of trying to find what I liked and wanted in a woman.
Just realized I really should be running Find your perfect job at some point soon, because I have similar beliefs there that are surely blocking me. Then another belief is that this would take sooo long that it'd be a major derail in my AM/SM/WM pursuits. And another belief is that if I actually went & got my perfect job, then it'd be really challenging and I wouldn't have any time for anything else anymore --> not happy --> job becomes harder. Seriously, sometimes it just feels there's no fixing me
RE: Are the results of single stage subliminal programs permanent? - koshas - 08-02-2015
(08-02-2015, 12:50 AM)CatMan Wrote:(08-01-2015, 09:10 AM)apollolux Wrote: some part of my subconscious mind was running on programming that was telling me that my desires did not matter when it came to women, and that I should accept whatever woman wanted me instead of trying to find what I liked and wanted in a woman.
(emphases mine) This hits the nail on the head for me for one of my issues, and I feel that this is becoming more and more common nowadays, not just because of parents but also because of other people. Thank you again, Shannon, for finding a way to pinpoint this important one and teaching us all how to break through it!
You are absolutely correct. A combination of Feminazism, single parents (moms), divorce spam (initiated almost always by women, even though almost every time it's the women pushing for the ring to BEGIN with...). Combined with two career households (translation: being raised largely by mom), female-centric education system (majority of teachers are females, and push female double standards and feminist policies from the government). As well as movies and TV shows pushing the pedestalisation of women even from a young age, create needy, clingy, pedestalising beta males trying to buy women's affection and putting them on pedestals as it's all they've been taught to do. It's ironic, women push men to become this, but yet are recoiling in disgust at those kinds of guys. It's weird! It's like, they think they know what they want, but apparently they don't. It's also interesting to me...that the feminist movement does everything in it's power to stamp out any TINY, stupid nonsense, indirect claim that women "need" men in any way (even though it's obvious our genders are built by evolution to support and add to eachother, but don't tell a feminist that, they don't live in reality), but yet conveniently do nothing about alimony, probably the biggest symbol women "need" men for at least financially, to ruin daily in divorce courts. It's always amazed me how women conveniently haven't gotten around to getting rid of alimony if they're so strong and independent and "don't need men", hmm...interesting...nevermind when they trap men into having kids and make them pay for those too. Strong and independent, hmm.
Women being raised on that dysfunctional one-sided culture, over time develop a big chip on their shoulder, a major sense of entitlement and superiority, a huge overvaluing of themselves (only realising often too late in life that they aren't really anything special), and generally treat men as disposable trash. What a screwed up situation. No wonder we have so many lost people, figuring out what they're supposed to do as their gender far FAR into adulthood when this stuff should've been taught to them when they were like 12.
Looks like we need to continue this idiotic failed social experiment in the west, a decade or two longer until people get the message that it's doomed and feminism can never, and HAS never, survived on it's own two feet on it's own merit, without MASSIVE help forcing it in through laws and forcing it down men's throats with public shaming if you don't tow the line and continue the worship of women with double standard special rights and priviledges feminists call "equality", and beta male behaviour...I wish I learned about these subs etc. back when I was a kid, would've kept me from being really screwed over by women despite doing what they claimed to want from a guy...I'm 33 now, better now than never I guess.
We are all very fortunate to have these resources at our disposal and to talk to eachother and network and support one another in our quests to change our lives.
Nice commentary catman.
fem-nazism is a mental disorder
It among other things have destroyed this society