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+--- Thread: Question for Shannon About AM/SM (/Thread-Question-for-Shannon-About-AM-SM)
Question for Shannon About AM/SM - SargeMaximus - 05-11-2015
Hi Shannon, I'm wondering how important the "heterosexual male" lines are in AM and SM. I REALLY want to use AM again, but I fear it will be wasted time since I don't ID as strictly hetero.
I assume that since one can resist subs, then one could resist selective parts (so, in my mind I'd be like, well I'm not straight but that action/body language/ belief would be good, so I'll adopt it anyway) can it work this way?
I'd love your guidance on this. Thanks!
RE: Question for Shannon About AM/SM - Leo1990 - 05-11-2015
ooooh really!... you like switching sides now sarge... hehe jk jk...
naturalself is in the same boat, yet he posts that he has success.
As well as I. While we both Naturalself and I are on our first runs, I still think I have been changing... oh soo slightly.
To me, to be a comfortable man you must accept ALL of who you are. Whatever that may be. Gay/strait/bi. But honestly, its much better to just LIVE, and not conform to any of those labels.
RE: Question for Shannon About AM/SM - Shannon - 05-11-2015
(05-11-2015, 04:45 PM)SargeMaximus Wrote: Hi Shannon, I'm wondering how important the "heterosexual male" lines are in AM and SM. I REALLY want to use AM again, but I fear it will be wasted time since I don't ID as strictly hetero.
I assume that since one can resist subs, then one could resist selective parts (so, in my mind I'd be like, well I'm not straight but that action/body language/ belief would be good, so I'll adopt it anyway) can it work this way?
I'd love your guidance on this. Thanks!
Selective resistance is something that for some reasons seems possible, and for others does not. So I really cannot answer your question. I know that I consistently observe the effects of the AP code on people who pirate my work, even when they are unaware that it is working; and a lot of them choose to pirate it because they believe either nothing is there or that they can selectively resist it. I have not seen anyone selectively resist it so far. That strongly tends to make me believe that selective resistance is not likely.
RE: Question for Shannon About AM/SM - SargeMaximus - 05-12-2015
(05-11-2015, 09:44 PM)Shannon Wrote: Selective resistance is something that for some reasons seems possible, and for others does not. So I really cannot answer your question. I know that I consistently observe the effects of the AP code on people who pirate my work, even when they are unaware that it is working; and a lot of them choose to pirate it because they believe either nothing is there or that they can selectively resist it. I have not seen anyone selectively resist it so far. That strongly tends to make me believe that selective resistance is not likely.
Well that sucks. I'm curious why you didn't just make the script say "If I'm a male" or even "XY chromosome". Labels, like Leo was saying, are just bad news. We have to be able to accept ourselves fully. More factual lines in the script (like "male" or "XY") are far better than ego-driven labels like "heterosexual".
For myself, I didn't even realize I was bi (now identify as pans) till just before I did SM 3, but I still did it just because it's all that was available. I'd really like to use AM/SM again, but now I can't because it would clearly be a waste of time.
Any plans to make the subs more widely accepted to different orientations in the future? It would certainly save you time and then you wouldn't have to make a "AM for bi/gay/whatever men" sub at all, just one size fits all.
(05-11-2015, 08:54 PM)LeoistheSun Wrote: ooooh really!... you like switching sides now sarge... hehe jk jk...
naturalself is in the same boat, yet he posts that he has success.
As well as I. While we both Naturalself and I are on our first runs, I still think I have been changing... oh soo slightly.
To me, to be a comfortable man you must accept ALL of who you are. Whatever that may be. Gay/strait/bi. But honestly, its much better to just LIVE, and not conform to any of those labels.
It depends lol. My tastes in guys are very selective and slim, while any woman above a certain looks threshold gets my attention.
Are you saying your bi as well, and still doing AM?
RE: Question for Shannon About AM/SM - Benjamin - 05-12-2015
I dunno man.. I would have issues myself is a program had stated that it didn't matter if you were straight/bi/gay whatever and I was going to use it.. I wouldn't want those labels ignored as I know that i'm not those things.
I guess it's similar to the doubts you're having about the straight program but from the other side. Not sure if i'm making sense, this isn't really something i've had to explain before.
I guess what i'm saying is I more support having different versions than a 'catch all' version in this case.
RE: Question for Shannon About AM/SM - SargeMaximus - 05-12-2015
(05-12-2015, 04:47 PM)Benjamin Wrote: I dunno man.. I would have issues myself is a program had stated that it didn't matter if you were straight/bi/gay whatever and I was going to use it.. I wouldn't want those labels ignored as I know that i'm not those things.
Dude, you don't have to be straight, bi, or anything to have self esteem. You don't have to be straight to value yourself, you don't have to be straight to stand up for yourself, and you don't have to be straight to be alpha. Seems like a redundant and useless title.
(05-12-2015, 04:47 PM)Benjamin Wrote: I guess it's similar to the doubts you're having about the straight program but from the other side. Not sure if i'm making sense, this isn't really something i've had to explain before.
I guess what i'm saying is I more support having different versions than a 'catch all' version in this case.
I disagree. I see it as training yourself internally and externally. How does your orientation play a role in any of the things the AM promises? I can see a distinction for Gay men MAYBE but even then, we are attracted to whoever we're attracted to. A sub can't change that can it?
A catch-all version would focus on self love, acceptance, all that good stuff which women find attractive anyways, it just wouldn't make being straight a pre-requisite for it to work. From where I see it: the only thing the "heterosexual male" line does is limit it's use. If you don't want woimen affected, why not just say "male"??
RE: Question for Shannon About AM/SM - Shannon - 05-12-2015
There are concepts in AM that would be quite unreasonable for a gay man, or woman for that matter, to be programmed with. Those concepts are there because the program was designed with straight men in mind originally, and later I created a version for gay men as well. I have never seen much in the way of sales for the gay version of AM, and bisexuals are as far as I know an even smaller group. I honestly did not expect it to become an issue because I did not think it would ever be that popular. The labels are there to protect those who may be inadvertently exposed who are not interested in women. Consider a college dorm where one person plays it for the rest, but one or more of his roomies is gay. That sort of thing.
I will have to account for all sexual identities or remove the need. If I remove the need, it will fundamentally alter the structure of the core, since gender relations is a major theme in the script. Relating to women, not just in terms of sex or romance, but in terms of masculine versus feminine. It seems that if I remove that, it will weaken the program's core. So to account for that I would have to create something that is specifically for bisexuals. The question is, would the amount of time it takes me to do that produce sufficient returns to be worth the time?
In the next version of AM, I will certainly be taking this into account in some manner. For the current version, though, I cannot say I am sure it is going to produce sufficient return on investment of time.
RE: Question for Shannon About AM/SM - Benjamin - 05-12-2015
Shannon explained it better than me and I agree.. I believe it would weaken the core of it being 'inclusive'. It's a whole different mindset between each of those things.
It's exactly the same as this 'gender is a social construct thing'. Trying to be inclusive of many things weakens it in each direction.. kind of like trying to use 5 programs at once or something.
RE: Question for Shannon About AM/SM - ffaux - 05-13-2015
Sarge, have you considered that maybe you were not bisexual before running AM and SM? Is it possible that your bisexuality somehow eventuated from not having a strong enough AM core before moving to SM? Something to think about anyway...
RE: Question for Shannon About AM/SM - SargeMaximus - 05-13-2015
Thank you Shannon for your reply. One thing I still do not understand is this:
(05-12-2015, 09:03 PM)Shannon Wrote: The labels are there to protect those who may be inadvertently exposed who are not interested in women. Consider a college dorm where one person plays it for the rest, but one or more of his roomies is gay. That sort of thing.
I will have to account for all sexual identities or remove the need. If I remove the need, it will fundamentally alter the structure of the core, since gender relations is a major theme in the script. Relating to women, not just in terms of sex or romance, but in terms of masculine versus feminine. It seems that if I remove that, it will weaken the program's core. So to account for that I would have to create something that is specifically for bisexuals. The question is, would the amount of time it takes me to do that produce sufficient returns to be worth the time?
I don't understand why someone's orientation would be affected by a label or the programming itself. Are you saying a gay person could potentially be turned straight by the program? If so, I see the issue, but if not, then what's the harm?
A sub cannot change your orientation, can it? The way I see it: I'm a male (fact) I'm pansexual (ego-driven-label fueled by biological orientation). The label "heterosexual male" makes me think "oh, this isn't for me", whereas a line of script that WAS open would be "a male" and then I'd act on it or not depending on predisposition such as orientation.
That's just how I see it, would love to learn more if this is not the case. BECAUSE if a sub CAN alter your orientation, then I might as well keep using AM 6 and SM 3 because 99.9% of my sexual interest is tied up in women anyways.
It's a very deep and CORE topic to think about for sure.
(05-12-2015, 09:03 PM)Shannon Wrote: In the next version of AM, I will certainly be taking this into account in some manner. For the current version, though, I cannot say I am sure it is going to produce sufficient return on investment of time.
I appreciate that, thank you. I didn't expect you to change the current AM anyhow, since I'd much rather have a new version at any rate, but I was hoping I could still glean some use from the current version without having to wait.
Thanks again for your consideration.
______________________
(05-13-2015, 03:04 AM)ffaux Wrote: Sarge, have you considered that maybe you were not bisexual before running AM and SM? Is it possible that your bisexuality somehow eventuated from not having a strong enough AM core before moving to SM? Something to think about anyway...
Oh I was. lol. I remember things from childhood.
Anyhow, it's taken me a long time to come to terms with myself and my orientation. I am very grateful, in fact, to Shannon's subs for highlighting this about me and forcing me (indirectly) to acknowledge and deal with it.
It's a good place to be in imo.
RE: Question for Shannon About AM/SM - Shannon - 05-13-2015
(05-13-2015, 08:06 AM)SargeMaximus Wrote: Thank you Shannon for your reply. One thing I still do not understand is this:
(05-12-2015, 09:03 PM)Shannon Wrote: The labels are there to protect those who may be inadvertently exposed who are not interested in women. Consider a college dorm where one person plays it for the rest, but one or more of his roomies is gay. That sort of thing.
I will have to account for all sexual identities or remove the need. If I remove the need, it will fundamentally alter the structure of the core, since gender relations is a major theme in the script. Relating to women, not just in terms of sex or romance, but in terms of masculine versus feminine. It seems that if I remove that, it will weaken the program's core. So to account for that I would have to create something that is specifically for bisexuals. The question is, would the amount of time it takes me to do that produce sufficient returns to be worth the time?
I don't understand why someone's orientation would be affected by a label or the programming itself. Are you saying a gay person could potentially be turned straight by the program? If so, I see the issue, but if not, then what's the harm?
A sub cannot change your orientation, can it? The way I see it: I'm a male (fact) I'm pansexual (ego-driven-label fueled by biological orientation). The label "heterosexual male" makes me think "oh, this isn't for me", whereas a line of script that WAS open would be "a male" and then I'd act on it or not depending on predisposition such as orientation.
That's just how I see it, would love to learn more if this is not the case. BECAUSE if a sub CAN alter your orientation, then I might as well keep using AM 6 and SM 3 because 99.9% of my sexual interest is tied up in women anyways.
It's a very deep and CORE topic to think about for sure.
I am not saying that using it will alter your sexual orientation. On the contrary, it is designed the way it is specifically so that it will not push heterosexual drives or desires into the minds of gay people. That's the point: respecting the orientation of the listener, and turning the program off if it's not suitable for them.
RE: Question for Shannon About AM/SM - SargeMaximus - 05-13-2015
(05-13-2015, 11:17 AM)Shannon Wrote: I am not saying that using it will alter your sexual orientation. On the contrary, it is designed the way it is specifically so that it will not push heterosexual drives or desires into the minds of gay people. That's the point: respecting the orientation of the listener, and turning the program off if it's not suitable for them.
Ok, so what would be a better sub to use for a guy like me? ASC? I still don't understand why you can't make a "one size fits all" sub. I must be missing something about human interactions, but in my view, if you like someone, you befriend and eventually become close. How close is mutually done on an unconscious level, so yeah. I just don't get it.
RE: Question for Shannon About AM/SM - robstar - 05-14-2015
(05-13-2015, 02:21 PM)kawobble Wrote:(05-11-2015, 09:44 PM)Shannon Wrote:(05-11-2015, 04:45 PM)SargeMaximus Wrote: Hi Shannon, I'm wondering how important the "heterosexual male" lines are in AM and SM. I REALLY want to use AM again, but I fear it will be wasted time since I don't ID as strictly hetero.
I assume that since one can resist subs, then one could resist selective parts (so, in my mind I'd be like, well I'm not straight but that action/body language/ belief would be good, so I'll adopt it anyway) can it work this way?
I'd love your guidance on this. Thanks!
Selective resistance is something that for some reasons seems possible, and for others does not. So I really cannot answer your question. I know that I consistently observe the effects of the AP code on people who pirate my work, even when they are unaware that it is working; and a lot of them choose to pirate it because they believe either nothing is there or that they can selectively resist it. I have not seen anyone selectively resist it so far. That strongly tends to make me believe that selective resistance is not likely.
Isn't the AP code geared towards you buying the product if you got benefit, if so then I have selectively resisted it so far.
Let the shitstorm commence.
RE: Question for Shannon About AM/SM - SargeMaximus - 05-14-2015
(05-14-2015, 02:55 AM)robstar Wrote: Let the shitstorm commence.
No, let's stay on topic.
What can I use to help myself with women/self acceptance in place of AM/SM?