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A question on certain alpha social dynamics for you guys - Benjamin - 06-27-2014
So I don't usually post asking about this stuff, but in this case I feel the need to get some opinions.
I posted in my journal about some conflict I had with a friend, we've had a little conflict in the past and another friend was talking about it saying 'battle of the alphas' and I asked him what he thought and he said it seems like he acts like this because in a way i'm a threat to this guy. When he first come into the group I remember he made some comment about me being second in charge in the group (my other friend who is the alpha would be the first).
He gets drunk and we kind of butt heads, one night he wanted a wrestle and I said okay and it nearly ended up in a real fight until I stopped it knowing what was about to happen. Then recently he was drunk and dropped his pants and was acting like he was bumming my head and I hate that and I decided to show him not to do it by doing something he doesn't like so I mooned him when he was laying on the floor, he cracked it and dragged me across the room and put me in a headlock and I grabbed his leg and was going to wrestle but didn't want to wreck my friends lounge, then he let go and paraded around trying to put on a big 'im angry and tough' act.
Then a few weeks later I tagged him in something funny on facebook and he deleted me which pissed me off and I confronted him about that and the thing when he overreacted and put me in a headlock.
I basically said he can't take jokes well and if he can't handle it then don't do stuff like he did first, and that it's a bit harsh that he deleted me because we usually have the same sense of humor and that i'd rather him tell me something like "can you not tag me in stuff like that on facebook cos my family or whoever might see" (that's what I gathered the point was). He wasn't saying much and tried to put the angry act on again but I followed him and just said I was trying to talk to him, in the end I said "i've said what I wanted to say" and left the gym as I was done with my workout.
Today I seen him and he said he wanted to chat and we had a civil chat about it, he first said "we don't have the same sense of humor" (later I realized we do only when he is drunk, and i've hung around him the most when he's drunk).
And the other thing he said which was strange and the thing that I mostly want opinions on..
He said that when we're out in a group that I always try to take over/take control and butt in.. and it sounded like he doesn't like that. I said to him being honest "I actually think i'm shy in groups" and told him that I feel uncomfortable in bigger groups and I don't mean to do it and maybe that's why. I now regret saying that after thinking, hoping he won't use it against me.
But for the last few hours since talking to him i've been thinking about what he said about me always trying to take control and that if he gets me thinking this it would be perfect for him to increase his status over me in the group which it seems he has been trying to do all of this time. From what i've seen he hasn't done any of this stuff with the others as they obviously aren't a threat to him like I am for some reason and he doesn't to the leader/alpha of the group since he is probably too high in status.
So i'm wondering if maybe he has a point to what he said, because I actually don't think i'm like that too much, I actually think I need to do stuff like interrupt more so i'm not ignored like I feel like I am sometimes.
The more I think about it the more it does seem he wanted to tell me that so he could try to get higher in the group if he makes me insecure about it, which makes me regret being so open and vulnerable saying sometimes in groups i'm uncomfortable. I'm working on being more open and vulnerable, but I still always think it's going to be used against me which is maybe my own insecurity.
Then the other half of me thinks maybe if people do think i'm doing that it could be one reason I sometimes push people away.
Anyway if that makes sense, it would be interesting to hear your take on this.. with all the changes i've made I feel like i've mostly lost this friendship group especially since confronting this guy.. but I may still hang around them a little bit in the future.
-Ben
RE: A question on certain alpha social dynamics for you guys - Shawn - 06-27-2014
It's difficult to say really something without knowing you both in real life. However, for me it looks like he is insecure and makes you down for that reason. Real alpha doesn't need to make people down. I don't know why he doesn't do it with other people. Maybe he feels superior to them, maybe because he feels inferior to them. But if he didn't do it in the past you probably grown personally and he is not used to the fact that you are the way you actually are.
RE: A question on certain alpha social dynamics for you guys - TheChosenOne - 06-27-2014
(06-27-2014, 12:21 PM)sebastian Wrote: It's difficult to say really something without knowing you both in real life. However, for me it looks like he is insecure and makes you down for that reason. Real alpha doesn't need to make people down. I don't know why he doesn't do it with other people. Maybe he feels superior to them, maybe because he feels inferior to them. But if he didn't do it in the past you probably grown personally and he is not used to the fact that you are the way you actually are.
Very True!! Subconsciously people "pick up" on your growth & development and in the past I had that same pattern like clockwork with all my friends...
Now, I have to be around people that are willing to "grow and develop" and even if they are insecure or whatever, as long as they're willing to develop, that pattern doesn't occur....and if I put myself in that situation (unknowingly), I take 100 % responsibility for my choices...
The irony of it is that it may make you feel a little disloyal or like you're not being a true friend, guilty or that there is something wrong with you....there isn't (although you will tend to have conflicting emotions telling you otherwise)
RE: A question on certain alpha social dynamics for you guys - Benjamin - 06-27-2014
Quote:But if he didn't do it in the past you probably grown personally and he is not used to the fact that you are the way you actually are.
Hmm interesting, thanks.. reading this I just realized that he didn't do this in the past until recently when I started losing weight and becoming more confident. I didn't realize that until now.
The other thing I wondered after posting this, is that maybe part of why the others aren't talking to me as much is that I didn't do much about it when he put me in a headlock and just let it go and they seen me let him do that without anything back. It does sound strange and i'd think they should be more mature than that, but somewhere subconsciously this may be happening. Hmm.
Quote:The irony of it is that it may make you feel a little disloyal or like you're not being a true friend, guilty or that there is something wrong with you....there isn't (although you will tend to have conflicting emotions telling you otherwise)
Yep, i'm going through all kinds of emotions around this.. to being pissed off with them saying "fuck them" to not wanting to talk to them at all and then to wanting to hang out with them. Guess i've just gotta adjust.
-Ben
RE: A question on certain alpha social dynamics for you guys - JackOfHearts - 06-28-2014
I had friends who always wanted to fight just to prove something. That is so low value, I hate that kind of behavior. Back then I was still a kid but just the idea of going out with friend like that again : that would be a straight no for me. A real man, I not even talking about Alpha here does not need to fight to prove something.
This friend is not worth your time, just ignore him.
I don't know what situation you are in exactly but that's what I would do from what I think you are going through.
RE: A question on certain alpha social dynamics for you guys - FREAK4LIFE - 06-28-2014
Sounds like a bitchass who is unwilling to accept your shine coming through. the shine that is swallowing and totally enshrouding his perceived alpha status.
He is acting out of insecurity and from a point of lower status trying to prove he is hot shit by picking random fights with you.
Had something like that in the past and it took a close and true friend to explain the dynamics, as to what was happening, to me before I got it.
I see the resemblance in this situation.
Family, friends, people you trust will hold you from growth is what I have experienced for God knows why. I still haven't figured that out since I want other people to reach their peaks in everything but I guess not everybody functions from the same mentality.
As for the guilt you are right about that as the conflicting feelings will be there but you will have to decide or choose rather what you want. are you ok wit being mediocre and keep them pleased or aim for your highest level and be ok with losing a couple of friends even if means walking a solo path for a while?
I would choose the latter any day over any friends, family, girl, love of my life or any other meaningful relationship you can come up with here just to see what I am capable of.
People who are supposed to soar in the skies are not supposed to wrestle with pigs!
RE: A question on certain alpha social dynamics for you guys - Shawn - 06-28-2014
(06-27-2014, 04:30 PM)Benjamin Wrote: The other thing I wondered after posting this, is that maybe part of why the others aren't talking to me as much is that I didn't do much about it when he put me in a headlock and just let it go and they seen me let him do that without anything back.
-Ben
Hm, I don't necessarily see a connection here. I mean, if they really want to talk to you, they would anyway. However, you mentioned you feel shy in groups. I think it's the more likely reason that you appear shy and therefore not as approachable you could be.
RE: A question on certain alpha social dynamics for you guys - MasterEnki - 06-28-2014
It sounds like my friends when I use to go out with them at night.
Now-a-days:
I haven't been out for several years now (except one of my friend's wedding about 18 months ago).
Honestly, going out sucks!!!
I find sitting around drinking, etc. just pointless and pathetic. It bores the hell out of me.
I spend my time working, studying and watching my favourite shows / the occasion video game.
I see my friends about 1-2 days a month on average, and only in the daytime.
Just observing the culture of going out (night time) is painful to me. It grates my intellect!!!
It is, for the most part, a bunch of idiots doing stupid things and trying to justify their idiotic behavior with a bunch of bullsh!t.
Petty conflicts / superiority games are just a manifestation of such a negative / egotistical culture (the culture of going out).
In my mind, it doesn't matter how 'alpha' one is,
The whole experience of going out (at night) will be the same, just as pointless, petty and intellectually-deprived.
Everyone has their 'element type'. My is at work / career.
I love socializing at work. The people are somewhat intelligent and open-minded, and discussions are kept civil and respectful.
But socializing at pubs, clubs, bars, taverns, etc. = Me wanting to bash my head against a brickwall out of frustration!!
Once I stopped going out with my friends at night, and only seeing them in the day, every so often,
I lost some of my friends. But 4 of them remain my friends, and more-or-less accept my decision.
Self-improvement will most likely change who is attracted to you.
Having 'higher' / positive values will repel those with 'lower' / negative values.
Once one starts to develop respect / integrity, those that are lying, cheating, dishonest, under-handing, corrupted, self-serving, arrogant, etc. will be repelled.
Law of Attraction states that like-attracts-like, and repels the opposite.
@ Benjamin
Maybe your friend has lower values and is, at least subconsciously, picking up on your new higher values, and is becoming repelled by you.
RE: A question on certain alpha social dynamics for you guys - Benjamin - 06-28-2014
Thanks guys.
Quote:I had friends who always wanted to fight just to prove something. That is so low value, I hate that kind of behavior. Back then I was still a kid but just the idea of going out with friend like that again : that would be a straight no for me. A real man, I not even talking about Alpha here does not need to fight to prove something.
Yeah, it's the reason I stopped a wrestle we had the first time that nearly ended up in a fight and didn't continue when he put me in a headlock. He did let go when I didn't continue it. I've been in way too many fights when I did security and don't want them anymore, let alone a guy who's meant to be my friend. And there's always that danger, I don't think he's been in real fights but he did mma for a fair while and is a muscular guy.
Quote:Sounds like a bitchass who is unwilling to accept your shine coming through. the shine that is swallowing and totally enshrouding his perceived alpha status.
Interesing way to put it, but yeah with my realization that he never did it until I started losing weight and feeling better about myself it makes sense.
Quote:are you ok wit being mediocre and keep them pleased or aim for your highest level and be ok with losing a couple of friends even if means walking a solo path for a while?
No.. i'm no longer content with that mediocrity. Like sitting at their house and watching tv and having them whinge about everybody else. On nights like tonight it's hardest, I went out with a couple of old friends (nothing to do with the group i've been talking about) and had fun, but they went home early and I didn't feel like going out by myself. Usually i'd go see these 'friends' but i'd rather come home and read and listen to some self development stuff.
Quote:Hm, I don't necessarily see a connection here. I mean, if they really want to talk to you, they would anyway. However, you mentioned you feel shy in groups. I think it's the more likely reason that you appear shy and therefore not as approachable you could be.
It's hard to say, it was just a theory I had. Because after that they all seemed to talk to me less and especially since I confronted him and stood up to him they all basically cut off all contact with me. I guess they aren't used to me standing up for myself like that.
Quote:It sounds like my friends when I use to go out with them at night.
I don't mind going out, though in my town I usually hate it because of the people and the vibe. But i'd rather doing stuff like tonight where I was hanging out with 2 friends, one was djing from a shopping trolley and we were walking around the street, it was the most fun saturday i've had for ages.. unfortunately the battery ran out though.
I usually prefer gatherings with friends and doing fun stuff over clubs, just force myself to go to them sometimes as I want to meet girls.
Quote:Once one starts to develop respect / integrity, those that are lying, cheating, dishonest, under-handing, corrupted, self-serving, arrogant, etc. will be repelled.
Oh wow.. that sentence really hit me.. you've summed it up perfectly.
These friends are a bit like that, the 'alpha' guy lies alot, and him and his brothers are always talking shit about people and saying "so and so is a fuckhead" (even their friends) so I can bet they do it about me too. And i've really lost interest in doing that, I never liked it but got caught up in it. Now distancing myself from them that really turns me off.
I've definately developed alot more self respect.. and some of those other things do match a few of these guys... especially the 'alpha' guy who has always been the leader, so I wouldn't be surprised if he's talked alot of shit about me trying to turn them against me.
So if I see them at the gym i'll talk to them, but i'm not going to go out of my way to hang out with them. I've always had issues making new friends, but I intend to work on it and make better friends who will encourage me and are positive.
-Ben