(10-13-2013, 04:42 PM)Shannon Wrote: Sarge, I actually was surprised that my last post went up, because I thought I had not posted it. I decided not to because I concluded that you would not understand what I was saying and it was better to let you learn your own way. It's not lectures, it's me trying to point something important to you out. In any case, I've spent enough time doing that.

Quote:Lately, it is popular to take pride in ignorance, being overweight, being bitchy and doing or being all sorts of other negatives. And people wonder why we are in decline as not just a society, but as a world...

(10-13-2013, 05:59 PM)SargeMaximus Wrote:

(10-13-2013, 04:42 PM)Shannon Wrote: Sarge, I actually was surprised that my last post went up, because I thought I had not posted it. I decided not to because I concluded that you would not understand what I was saying and it was better to let you learn your own way. It's not lectures, it's me trying to point something important to you out. In any case, I've spent enough time doing that.

No problem Shannon, I understand.

I do have one curiosity though, when it comes to my beliefs on karma, it seems only logical that if you cause someone pain or suffering or what have you, they must have done something to deserve it. I mean, if it's me suffering from some guy stealing my woman, I KNOW that you'd be the first to say "I told you so! It's karma!" so, in that instance, the guy is being my karma.
Why can't it work the same way for me? It's almost like for other people they are tools of karma in your mind whereas I am completely independent of it and each and everything bad I do will yield karma, rather than BE the karma.

Any ideas?

(10-13-2013, 08:03 PM)Shannon Wrote:

(10-13-2013, 05:59 PM)SargeMaximus Wrote:

(10-13-2013, 04:42 PM)Shannon Wrote: Sarge, I actually was surprised that my last post went up, because I thought I had not posted it. I decided not to because I concluded that you would not understand what I was saying and it was better to let you learn your own way. It's not lectures, it's me trying to point something important to you out. In any case, I've spent enough time doing that.

No problem Shannon, I understand.

I do have one curiosity though, when it comes to my beliefs on karma, it seems only logical that if you cause someone pain or suffering or what have you, they must have done something to deserve it. I mean, if it's me suffering from some guy stealing my woman, I KNOW that you'd be the first to say "I told you so! It's karma!" so, in that instance, the guy is being my karma.
Why can't it work the same way for me? It's almost like for other people they are tools of karma in your mind whereas I am completely independent of it and each and everything bad I do will yield karma, rather than BE the karma.

Any ideas?

You don't know I would be the first, you assume I would. But you would be wrong.

If we consider the concept of karma as similar to walking along the path to our ultimate goal as a being, then karma only kicks in when we step off the path. And when we so, we naturally have to retrace the ground we walked away from the path to get back to it.

In any interaction that deals with karma, there must be an initiation and a recompense. One person steps off the path, and eventually that person must return to the path. The initiating action does not necessarily have anything to do with karma until it's enacted. The recompensatory action is something that is chosen as a means of realignment, or returning to the path. These do not necessarily have to happen in one lifetime.

So for instance, I could stab someone to death, and if they did not karmically have that debt to realign in kind, then I am not repaying a karmic debt, I am creating one.

The issue at hand is that one cannot know at a conscious level whether the action is initiatory or recompensatory.

In many cases, recompensatory acts are not necessarily acts done by the body, but by the soul before birth. One might be born with damaged legs to understand what the cost to someone else was who at one point you ran over and crushed the legs of, for instance. The idea is to learn why the initiatory action is "off the path" by experiencing the fruits of it, and not just the action of having done it. We always experience both sides of the coin.

Since you cannot know if the act is initiative or recompensatory in nature with regards to karma, it is naturally wise to never enact anything that has negative karmic consequences. Wisdom, as they say, erases karma.

With this understanding, living a life of kindness and consideration towards oneself as well as others becomes quite natural to do. It prevents taking on more lessons, and allows for past lessons to be learned and dispensed with. There is no "becoming karma", because karma is nothing more than a measure of your alignment with regards to having an understanding of what the right way is.

(10-13-2013, 08:35 PM)Shannon Wrote: Karma is always dualistic. You need make no realignment without first misaligning yourself. Realignment makes no sense if you are already aligned.

You would not apologize for punching someone you never punched. You would not pay back a loan you never took out. You would not fix something that wasn't broken. And you could not realign something that is already in alignment.

The whole point is to learn and grow. We do this most often by making mistakes, and then fixing them. Karma makes those mistakes have a price, and the more we make them without learning from them, the higher the price becomes and the harder and more painful it becomes to continue making the same mistakes.

Karma is not simply a form of energy, it is a natural law of balance within the universe which applies to beings of awareness who are seeking growth.

What is the title of the book? I have written several. It may be one of mine.

Quote:One might be born with damaged legs to understand what the cost to someone else was who at one point you ran over and crushed the legs of, for instance. The idea is to learn why the initiatory action is "off the path" by experiencing the fruits of it, and not just the action of having done it.

(10-13-2013, 09:01 PM)smoothsam Wrote:

(10-13-2013, 08:35 PM)Shannon Wrote: Karma is always dualistic. You need make no realignment without first misaligning yourself. Realignment makes no sense if you are already aligned.

You would not apologize for punching someone you never punched. You would not pay back a loan you never took out. You would not fix something that wasn't broken. And you could not realign something that is already in alignment.

The whole point is to learn and grow. We do this most often by making mistakes, and then fixing them. Karma makes those mistakes have a price, and the more we make them without learning from them, the higher the price becomes and the harder and more painful it becomes to continue making the same mistakes.

Karma is not simply a form of energy, it is a natural law of balance within the universe which applies to beings of awareness who are seeking growth.

What is the title of the book? I have written several. It may be one of mine.

I mean "There are no accidents". We all make choices. Non-duality is an interesting concept. The book is The Secret Master Key to Losing Weight (and Keeping It Off Forever). I believe in the law of cause and effect. Did you write this? Amazing writing style. Interesting like your posts.

(10-13-2013, 09:41 PM)Ace Wrote: Good posts Shannon.

Quote:One might be born with damaged legs to understand what the cost to someone else was who at one point you ran over and crushed the legs of, for instance. The idea is to learn why the initiatory action is "off the path" by experiencing the fruits of it, and not just the action of having done it.

So how does this apply to people who don't know the difference between right and wrong? For example terrorists or intellectually disabled or children? In case of terrorists, they are under the influence of some bad teachings and hence they kill people hoping that it is the right thing to do and it will send them to heaven. But they didn't know the truth.
What if a child/intellectually disabled kills someone? He doesn't know that it's wrong to kill someone(like he got his dad's gun and started playing with it and accidentally killed someone)?
And what if some adult (who knows whats right and wrong) hurts someone by mistake? Like I am driving a car and a child/dog jumps right in front of my car and dies because I wasn't able to stop the car in time?

(10-14-2013, 04:04 AM)SargeMaximus Wrote: But it seems to me that karma is always a "bad" consequence. I mean, what about good ones? What about people who are born into wealth and luxury? A reward? I don't like that way of thinking because it hinders you from further aspiring to greatness. It suggests that the material realm (this world) is something of merit in that it can be rewarding or not. Whereas I believe that everything is insignificant compared to the universe (god) or, as I like to call it, our true self.

(10-13-2013, 10:33 PM)Shannon Wrote:

(10-13-2013, 09:41 PM)Ace Wrote: Good posts Shannon.

Quote:One might be born with damaged legs to understand what the cost to someone else was who at one point you ran over and crushed the legs of, for instance. The idea is to learn why the initiatory action is "off the path" by experiencing the fruits of it, and not just the action of having done it.

So how does this apply to people who don't know the difference between right and wrong? For example terrorists or intellectually disabled or children? In case of terrorists, they are under the influence of some bad teachings and hence they kill people hoping that it is the right thing to do and it will send them to heaven. But they didn't know the truth.
What if a child/intellectually disabled kills someone? He doesn't know that it's wrong to kill someone(like he got his dad's gun and started playing with it and accidentally killed someone)?
And what if some adult (who knows whats right and wrong) hurts someone by mistake? Like I am driving a car and a child/dog jumps right in front of my car and dies because I wasn't able to stop the car in time?

This gets into discussion of topics far and away from what the original thread is about, and really should be in the religion thread.

I think perhaps it would be more useful to point you to the work of Dr. Newton. Read his books and you'll understand a great deal more about this than I can reasonably explain here.

His first book is here: http://www.amazon.com/Journey-Souls-Studies-Between-Lives/dp/1567184855/ref=la_B000APC05I_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1381732317&sr=1-1

And his second book is here: http://www.amazon.com/Destiny-Souls-Studies-Between-Lives/dp/1567184995/ref=la_B000APC05I_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1381732317&sr=1-2

(10-14-2013, 06:08 PM)Shannon Wrote: In one way, there is no difference in the significance of anything, in my view, because ultimately, all things are united. There is no separation. The separation is an illusion created to focus our attention in specific directions so we can learn.

In another way, significance depends on what we are focused on and trying to learn. The material world is intended to act as a stage upon which we learn to be truly wise. How rewarding it is, or not, depends on what you are looking to gain from experiencing it and whether or not you do what it takes. It is always up to the individual as to how important a lifetime is toward their ultimate learning goals (sometimes you just need to take a break and have fun), and how seriously they apply themselves to doing what is necessary to achieve their stated goals each time.