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+--- Thread: Make Fear Fiction Again (OF V3) (/Thread-Make-Fear-Fiction-Again-OF-V3)
RE: Make Fear Fiction Again (OF V3) - Benjamin - 10-08-2021
Quote:Also, your experience with 8 loops seems pretty consistent with mine. At one point, I felt like it was needed, but I felt like my ability to process it got further and further behind to the point to where I felt like I was almost stonewalling. When I backed the loops down to 1 (temporarily), the progress happened. I've had some luck with cycling loops in a few isolated instances. I'm beginning to wonder if regularly cycling loops by inducing overload followed by a period of reduced loops for execution is the way to go.
Yep I was thinking the same thing, similar to a bodybuilding program I did years ago where you overtrain a little then dial back to let it catch up.
When I was doing 8 loops I also had urges to listen through the day, where on 3 loops the last week or so i've only had that a couple of times. I'm guessing it might increase again at some stage.
RE: Make Fear Fiction Again (OF V3) - NOMAD - 10-09-2021
(10-08-2021, 03:56 PM)Benjamin Wrote: Yep I was thinking the same thing, similar to a bodybuilding program I did years ago where you overtrain a little then dial back to let it catch up.
I used to do a similar routine. It was very effective.
RE: Make Fear Fiction Again (OF V3) - Benjamin - 10-11-2021
Quote:I used to do a similar routine. It was very effective.
Definately, but quite tiring and I remember it brought up a few niggling pains just from the amount I was doing. I have good memories of the program though in general.
RE: Make Fear Fiction Again (OF V3) - Benjamin - 10-11-2021
I ended up doing 7 nights of 3 loops, then had the urge for nights off. 2 nights ago was my 3rd night off, the last few nights have been dreams centered around bullying.. I can't remember the specifics though but the theme stood out. And quite a bit of anxiety coming up.
Last night had the urge to go back to 6 loops.
Today I had to go down the street to do something that on the surface is simple, but current bullshit adds potential drama and annoyance, plus all the fear being thrown at us from every direction.
I decided earlier that i'd just go instead of putting it off. I had to goto the toilet first, that's one of my old fear 'symptoms' I remember years ago before going to clubs I used to keep feeling like i'd need to goto the toilet but be constipated.. it doesn't happen as much now.
I had that, but also I was feeling really anxious, shaking and chills which sometimes goes along with fear. I also noticed that I was thinking of all kinds of crazy situations that could happen just going to do this simple thing which I know creates fear and most of those things never actually happen when it comes to it.. but this imagining creates more fear and anxiety around it. I'm conscious of that but it doesn't necessarily stop it.
I worked myself up and I realized in that state I might actually bring on what I was fearing, combined with reacting too aggressively if it did happen. So I decided i'd go and put 1 loop of ocean surf on and watch Dave Chappelle, and felt alot calmer after. I was considering half just staying home, but I realized I wouldn't feel good in myself if I let this fear stop me and I went.
When I parked my car the anxiety come up again but I ended up going in and...
Everything was completely fine. No issues.
And a distinction between LTU 6 and OF V3 that I don't know how to explain it past how it presents for me. On LTU 6 I noticed that most of the time when i'd go somewhere i'd feel quite calm, but then i'd talk and hear anxiety and shakiness in my voice and find it difficult to interact. Not all the time, but obviously at the times there was some anxiety going on, but I wasn't consciously aware of it other than hearing it in my voice.
On OF V3, not all the time but today for example I feel alot of the anxiety but i'm more able to still act, and my voice seems relatively okay and I still briefly chatted to staff. Where on LTU 6 i'd also feel unable to do that, i'd 'feel' calm but not want to talk to them and it would be hard to get my voice out and when I did it was shaky.
Seems to me that whatever was coming up today was defiantely digging into something, likely around being bullied due to the pattern of dreams.. and my response that I was imagining of being overly aggressive was back at school my eventual response to bullying people, and still sometimes my pattern of response.. though now it happens much quicker in certain situations.
RE: Make Fear Fiction Again (OF V3) - Benjamin - 10-17-2021
I don't know what decision to make right now.
I'm enjoying what OF is doing (most of the time, when emotions aren't being stirred up atleast). Especially socially, when it comes to training and fitness stuff and gradually confronting some things, and there are times mostly when i'm out somewhere cool or socializing that i'm just happy and enjoying the atmosphere. Like when I went for a walk to a scenic place with some friends, and just geniunely enjoying socializing and holding my own.
But it's not like i'm 'bulding' anything. My own business stuff I haven't done much work on, slowly lessened it after stopping LTU. An unexpected option come up training martial arts again in that a few other people are coming, and I started it for my own training but one of them suggested with the time i'm spending planning it that they would give donations for the sessions.. but I don't really want to monetize it past that, as it's mainly for my own training.
And the main part.. due to 1984 type circumstances (to go with how Have At Ye said it, without going into detail) and me refusing to go along with some bs, my second source of income will be gone soon which is a bit less than half of my income. So when I realized this today the urge for UMS V2 started coming up, combined with the thought that things will very likely be getting worse here and that I need a foundation of income that doesn't require me to have a normal job and that can be outside the bs.
I muscle tested it and on TWO seperate levels it told me to stop OF and do UMS. Which brings up weird conflicts.
Sometimes on OF when emotions were coming up I wanted to do UMS instead, but now that I get a more substantial push towards it and confirmation on muscle testing I really don't want to, and depression and fear are suddenly coming up.
Mostly of what I could lose. I'm enjoying the developments of OF though they are subtle, and am afraid to lose what i've developed in my friendship group, with martial arts training and a few other things if UMS totally shifts my mindset towards money and I possibly lose interest in both of those things.
And fear of who I might become, somebody who is just interested in money and nothing else and reading the description thoughts of maybe I won't even want to go and see friends, go out to dinner or whatever.. and I don't want that to happen, as with all the bs going on it's great to have a support group who are likeminded.
But on the other hand with the speed that things seem to be going downhill in ways that George Orwell would spin in his grave about.. can I really afford atleast another 3 months on OF and just allowing these subtle changes, or more likely more than 3 months because with the level of fear i've had in my life I don't think 6 months would be enough.
I'm surprised the huge amount of sadness that is suddenly coming up around this, I haven't fully made the decision but it really brought up these after I realized it's likely best to goto UMS, and since muscle testing is telling me I don't think it's resistance.
To go along with that, I muscle test regularly to shift things i'm doing for my health. And for literally 6+ months it constantly was telling me to do OF, starting with V2 and then V3 when that come out.. I kept ignoring it because of fear, but it kept coming up again and again and again.
So after doing this so long i've learnt to trust it, but I still sometimes question it and it doesn't make sense why.. I predict if I don't goto UMS the same thing will happen in that it will keep telling me the same thing.
RE: Make Fear Fiction Again (OF V3) - NOMAD - 10-17-2021
We live in turbulent times. From the perspective of someone who always recommends seeing the sub through to completion, do what you have to do. Ultimately, you have to be able to provide for yourself. This isn't you running from the sub. You're in the middle of a valid predicament and taking steps to ensure you emerge on the other side of that predicament is perfectly reasonable.
I'll be joining the UMSv2 club soon, myself.
RE: Make Fear Fiction Again (OF V3) - Benjamin - 10-24-2021
Quote:We live in turbulent times. From the perspective of someone who always recommends seeing the sub through to completion, do what you have to do. Ultimately, you have to be able to provide for yourself. This isn't you running from the sub. You're in the middle of a valid predicament and taking steps to ensure you emerge on the other side of that predicament is perfectly reasonable.
I'll be joining the UMSv2 club soon, myself.
Yes true, i'm still doing OF.. I seen part of 'wanting' to switch to UMS v2 may have been resistance, but the fact that UMS v2 tested for me on 2 levels of muscle testing still says something, because i've learnt to trust it as i've sometimes had things come up I didn't want to do that would keep coming up.
So trying to stick to OF longer as i'm liking the effects though subtle, but things may go downhill quickly here with recent developments in Australia. A good focus on fear is awesome right now with people being so irrational, and i've seen how OF and LTU before have kept me more strong during this where i've seen some other people lose it a bit, I especially realized this when I seen a woman in the supermarket who hung out with us a few times late last year and how she barely leaves the house now from what she said.
RE: Make Fear Fiction Again (OF V3) - Benjamin - 10-24-2021
So had a pretty big 'snapback' where the last few days I really felt like everything from OF disappeared and I was getting pissed off and I always start to blame other things and get pissed off "fuck I wish I didn't do that" and it's likely my mind is trying to blame these things to try to give me a good reason where it might be just my own resistance.
A woman i'm friends with well meaningly did some energy healing on our group remotely to help deal with stress going on at the moment. But I was annoyed because I wasn't sure if it conflicted with what OF is doing.
I'll explain the leadup to the 'snapback'.
Have a gathering each weekend, a new girl rocked up like 4 weeks ago. I started talking to her, ended up hugging her and she seemed pretty attracted after that. Then next time talked more, said "wanna come and see (something in my car)" and showed her and talked to her more. Then walked her to her car when she was leaving and she was joking about a secret handshake and kind of holding onto my hand. She was throwing every signal, like preening me a bit, flirting and everything. I got her number, and when I messaged her she had some bs excuse about why she couldn't go out.
Then I was like "nah she's definately attracted" and last weekend I continued, she gave me a big wave when I was talking to others like she wanted my attention, just poked my tongue out and eventually went to talk to her, alot more flirting, suggestiveness and she ate up my flirting. Walked to her car, asked what she was doing through the week, lets do something and 'no probably not'.
So I thought about it and decided she's just attention whoring and seems to get off on the attention of the other guys, and i'd tried twice so i'm not going to continue. Today I just ignored her completely, made no effort to try to talk to her because of her bullshit games.
But the distinction is how I was going for it, flirting with her and such in ways I haven't for ages, so something around fear shifted.
Then through the week last week I went for a walk down the street, this cute girl was walking towards me and when I got close she let out a loud giggle that was the most obvious attempt to get my attention than I ever remember. I said something and she walked a few more steps and turned around all smiley and we started talking. Lots of giggling, she was definately attracted. in the end I asked how old she is, 19 and got her number. Hugged her but even though i'd touched her a bit and she was all comfortable the hug seemed to make her a bit uncomfortable and I got the impression she's a bit inexperienced and such. I decided i'd message her the next day but unfortunately she didn't answer.
Well then all the resistance and 'snapback' come back. Tons of insecurities, emotional intensity. Feeling weak in myself, insecure, submissive and such. This started to come up the night I got her number and reminds me of times in the past the exact type of girls I want are attracted to me and then all this fear and sabotage would come up and somehow ruin it. It's almost like all my thoughts and such energetically ruin it.
Went to a gathering with friends a few nights ago and just felt weirdly awkward and was annoyed with myself. Then last night had the urge to go from 3 loops to 8 but at a low volume, slept longer than usual as i'd had a few late nights and felt better today.
Went to 2 gatherings today and felt allright, but it really kicked in on the second gathering. As in I felt much better again, social, going between groups and chatting etc.
First some more context.
Was talking to a girl on bumble maybe a 1-2 months ago. She was sending quite long messages and keen. I asked her out and she didn't reply, then later in the week I messaged again and she's like "i'm sorry for being so flaky, I had a bad week" and told me all this stuff, and I gave another chance, then stopped replying again.. 3 or so days later in the morning suddenly "are you free today, I know it's short notice" and I got annoyed like "does she fucking think i'm just going to instantly drop everything and do that" and ignored the message.
Then maybe 3 weeks later, last week messaged her again.. asked her out again and she was busy that weekend which is fine.. but the issue is whereas at first quickly replied she took like a whole day to reply. So I had enough information as it had happened enough, I hesitated but i've been realizing these girls need to be held to account even if it's for the next guy. I turn my phone off before bed so can't check, but I said something like "I've seen enough evidence of this pattern of flakiness, so this isn't going to workout" and she sent back "oh but I offered a meetup 3 weeks ago".
Anyway, the gathering I went to tonight she randomly showed up. I wasn't sure if it was her but I went over to the group, funny she kind of was ignoring me but her friend who I assumed they gossiped about it cos she gave me a big smile and a hi and was talking to me, her friends were really friendly, laughing and such but she seemed to be continually trying to ignore me. I just kind of talked to her to be nice, not really with any intention. But after she kept doing it I realized "fuck this, i'm not going to bother" and everyone, including other girls I was talking to were all happy and laughing.. so it's her own bullshit.
And here's the kicker. We all know how girls have great photos on dating sites that don't make them look really fat.
Yep, she was MUCH fatter than I ever expected. Had I showed up to meetup with her I would have been like "what the fuck". And she thinks she can pull that kind of shit when she's bringing that to the table and not even having honest photos.
Anyway, seems that when resistance hits me the hardest is when I really feel like "fuck, everything from the program has disappeared, it's like it's done nothing" and I get convinced of it almost every time i'm in the middle of it.
Though I was talking to other new women today, it wasn't flirty in the same way.. so I can see that after those 2 I mentioned and me opening up and being more flirty again that fear has come up and sent that back a bit due to fear.
RE: Make Fear Fiction Again (OF V3) - GreekGod22 - 10-24-2021
When scheduling dates / meet-ups with girls / women, what I've found works really well is the concept of a soft close.
A regular close in this context would be "Hey, let's meet, I'd like to see you". To which she is forced to give a Yes or No, clear-cut answer.
With a soft close, you never try to close without first gauging her level of investment in the interaction and her compliance towards you. Let's say you are a photographer. In the interaction(texting or real-life), if you feel she is interested and invested in the interaction, you initiate a soft close. Would be something like this.
-One of my passions is photography
-Oh, really, that sounds interesting. I love X type of photos
- I'll have to show you my collection, you will love them.
Or "Do you like wine?". This is also a soft close.
Also, when it comes to actual scheduling the meet, don't do "Let's meet on X day". Instead, simply ask:
What's your schedule like this weekend / next week / next couple of days?
She will respond that she is free on Thursday and Friday. You then tell her:
Friday is perfect for me!.
or
Let's meet on Friday.
In this way, you are always leading. You are asking her schedule, but you are the one who actually decides the day.
I personally, never initiate a meet-up unless I'm at the point where I have very high compliance from her.
Oftentimes, it will be the woman who will close me.
RE: Make Fear Fiction Again (OF V3) - Benjamin - 11-02-2021
Last week after going to a gathering I was in bed thinking about how strongly 'Alpha' my mindset was becoming, and comparing it to the general mindset going around especially at the moment. So that's good..
Until the fucking sabotage kept coming up against that straight after and half the night whenever I woke up.
Since then i've been feeling weaker, a bit more submissive and it's like my 'nice guy tendencies' are becoming more obvious to me and I started reading a book 'Not Nice' that's good so far. I'm guessing OF guided me to that.
Interestingly one thing I identified with the written exercises from it is that I fear upsetting attractive girls, then later that day in a store I got into conflict with 2 workers simply because I said 'no' to bs they're trying to make people do as i've mentioned a few times, I rarely have issues but this place is known for it. I stayed calm and just kept saying 'no' and walked off and got the item I wanted. The second one served me and kept going on about it, and I calmly stated I do not have to do what she's asking basically.
Other than that kind of feeling weird, like some things I maybe 'should' be angry at but i'm just not able to bring it up. In saying that I was happy that I was calm in the conflict and didn't overreact with anger like I do sometimes, at first I was shaking a little but when I went back to get served I was okay again. So I wonder if some of the anger is due to fear. Maybe partly but it also partly feels like something is being suppressed or worked through.
I haven't wanted to go onto UMS v2 as a few times in the last few weeks i've felt like something big has been being worked on and didn't want to interrupt it. But it's becoming more obvious that this might be a necessity as things are getting worse here, including it being made very difficult to make a normal income for some people who refuse to be manipulated. So the only option is expanding on my own business efforts.
I have also noticed that since I lost around half my income in the last few weeks I suddenly spent more than usual, maybe some weird fearful response to it. Today i've almost decided i'll go onto UMS v2 out of necessity. It's about 3 1/2 months into OF V3, but another 3 months with the rate things are going i'm not sure if it's going to be to my advantage to not really start working on this.
I'm noticing good things on OF that i'm afraid of losing if I stop it and go onto UMS due to a different focus. I'm enjoying some of the progress.
But I admit my motivation for my own business projects still isn't there and ignoring that likely isn't wise right now. 3rd round of muscle testing, a week between each again says "Do UMS V2".
RE: Make Fear Fiction Again (OF V3) - Benjamin - 11-08-2021
I set a challenge for myself to confront an insecurity. Simply, walk across to the beach with no shirt on as I hate taking it off.
I'd thought about it for ages but finally got to it. I felt a bit timid and insecure doing it, especially uncomfortable when I walked past or was near attractive girls. I walked near some of them to let that come up.
Then I stood at the first part of the beach, 2 girls turned around and looked a few times. I said to them 'aren't you going swimming today' and they giggled and turned back around, but looked around again and giggled. I wasn't able to bring myself to say more and insecurities really come up thinking they were laughing at how I look because I had my shirt off.
It brought up a fair bit of stuff. I haven't looked at porn for a good amount of time, and got past a few intense times where I really wanted to.. and doing this challenge really triggered it and I ended up doing so 4 times within a few hours after that.
So i've been feeling like shit from that night, drained, tired, little motivation to go out into the world and do stuff like I have been, not really feeling like socializing which I usually love.. this is the damage of it but it's always convincing in the moment, especially when insecurities come up. I was aware of this but didn't expect doing this challenge would bring it up so strongly.
Took 4 nights off OF. Last night I really didn't feel like listening, but it felt more like resistance. Well actually it was like my mind had shifted to the decision to do UMS so that felt more likely, but I told myself with what's coming up I need to continue OF for a bit longer.
Tonight also I really don't feel like listening to OF. It's not autoconfig as I got used to how that feels. It feels more like disallusionment and just wanting to stop listening and give up.
But 4th round of muscle testing.. again says UMS V2.
RE: Make Fear Fiction Again (OF V3) - Raykon - 11-10-2021
What is this muscle testing that you speak of, Im curious.
RE: Make Fear Fiction Again (OF V3) - GreekGod22 - 11-10-2021
(11-10-2021, 01:58 PM)Raykon Wrote: What is this muscle testing that you speak of, Im curious.This could enlighten you: https://kinesiologycollege.edu.au/articles/kinesiology-the-search-for-truth/
RE: Make Fear Fiction Again (OF V3) - Benjamin - 12-21-2021
I'm getting incredibly bored with OF. Sure i'm more comfortable socially and also have been able to deal with alot of the bs and fear being thrown at us all this time much better than alot of people I know.
And last weekend I went to a christmas party where there was alot of people I don't know and I went around to almost every group and met them which was cool. Social comfort is more consistent than in a while, and i've noticed on OF i'm talking to more people and they are open to me, including friends kids who seem to want my attention more.
But i'm missing some kind of dominance/rawness/masculine edge.. a few times it's come up on OF then disappeared. I know it's not the goal of OF but I hoped it would be uncovered more.
I especially haven't noticed much happening with reducing the fear of talking to or approaching women. A couple of times something opened up briefly and things really flowed with girls who were serving me, but it didn't last long and now i've noticed recently feeling awkward and not being able to get much out. Though early on in OF I did decide instead of going to self service checkouts i'd goto people as much as possible. When it's someone else I don't really have issues, but an attractive girl then still the same issue of putting too much importance on it.
And i'm still constantly hitting upon the same issue. Each time I get alot of resistance and upheaval eventually I get to a point where I explore it in writing and keep going deeper..
Each time it goes back to my abandonment/adoption, things like 'being rejected confirms that my mum was right for abandoning me' 'feeling like i'm not welcome in the world' and similar things.
Every fucking time I explore something that's coming up it inevitably goes back to this and it doesn't seem to actually shift it. I do notice that when I do this exploration and hit upon it then let myself feel the emotions that come up it does shift it for a little bit and things open up, but in the long term it doesn't seem to shift it and it continuously comes up.
And the cycle on OF has been.. going good, like last weekend then this deeper stuff comes up, most notably around girls like going to the beach last sunday (the day after the christmas party) and also 1-2 months ago and getting really frustrated fear stopped me talking to girls there and then going on a porn binge and feeling worse. This time it was even more so than last time, like it was triggered even stronger.
Good thing is I did without it for a few months, longer than in a while but then it comes up again when these abandonment issues come up.
The weird thing is it felt like I was triggered more deeply this time, and since exploring it in writing my urges for listening have gone way up.
I did 8 nights on, first few nights 3 loops, then 8. Then 1 night off and now several nights of 10 loops! And also at a higher volume than i've ever done.
So I don't know if i've thrown something off with the autoconfig or this is legit. But I can say doing 10 loops last night at that high volume I slept pretty well. I'm fairly cloudy headed today though.
Yesterday especially had tons of thoughts that though i'm more consistently confident and comfortable socially on OF, as I was on LTU though more so on OF after a while.. that I don't feel like i'm achieving much substantial.
The other good thing was starting martial arts training again which i've really been enjoying. Deciding not to go on the computer until around 12pm each day so i'm doing something else and not wasting too much time on the computer and some other things which are good.
But it kind of just feels not substantial, not as obvious as expected.. and right now incredibly boring.
Each time I muscle test it still tells me to do UMS v2 but i've been holding out until 6 months on OF. About a month left.
So head feels constricted, cloudy headed, tired.. but still have this strong urge for MORE input. Like I feel a bit like listening now before I goto bed and 10 loops again tonight. I'll go with it, but i'm a little confused how it's increased so massively with few days off recently.