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+--- Thread: Turning Over A New Leaf - DMSI V3.3.1-D (/Thread-Turning-Over-A-New-Leaf-DMSI-V3-3-1-D)
Turning Over A New Leaf - DMSI V3.3.1-D - CatMan - 03-14-2019
Hello friends!
I feel compelled to journal after the developments on the forum the past little while. The powers that be did their part to try to move the forum towards it's original purpose. So, in response, I feel I'm obligated to resume journaling to also provide something in return. Thank you, not only for the intent, but for the eventual, albeit unfortunate, action. It feels good to be back
.Moving on...as I don't wish to dwell or incite any controversy. But I felt it obviously needed to be at least briefly addressed. And that IML needed to be credited for the difficult decision.
Listening regimen: 8 loops per day. It's either 8 loops of bed side speaker while sleeping, or a few loops of hybrid headphones, immediately followed by the remaining loops on bedside speaker while sleeping. I do like the "hybrid" option when schedule permits, the idea of varying the input style and with the most potent version of the program in a hybrid, could do a good job breaking through.
Since Shannon opened up the ASRB2 for testing, I have attempted to continue a streak of listening with no rest since he gave the go ahead. I wanted to observe if severe exhaustion would become a factor like in previous versions, or if some progress would occur. It's been a pleasant and uneventful experience since starting the "no day off" regimen.
The dreams have centered around me and famous people, being in rapport with them in dreams, them knowing me and vibing me etc. Obviously some feelings there of wanting respect, validation, status and the like, makes perfect sense. Some about me seemingly wanting to be younger, that's legit as I have often thought I've "missed out" as I struggled when much younger to be successful with girls and be "popular". Also, I seem to have some more dreams about girls on this version. Those have been an extreme rarity on SM3, only one I can recall on the whole program! And, on earlier versions of DMSI, they were still very VERY rare. So, that may be something. The dreams center around the same theme mostly, situations with them going good, or bad, depending on dream. Nothing sexual in the dreams IIRC. But several about being mistreated, or ignored, when bad ones. Then there's ones like me fighting my way out of a forest for example. Lots of "weird" ones like that where I've written them down and afterwards had to research online to find the possible meanings for. They ALL check out as being plausible though. So that's something.
No exhaustion to speak of, well not from the sub anyway, lol. I have a serious family health issue that dealing with has drained me of quite a bit of energy for awhile now. This is even with the "no day off" system implemented for awhile. So that's good to know, that this "dose" can be handled without issue.
My mentality seems to shift. I go through some periods of anger/resentment/frustration towards girls for my treatment and lack of success, at times. Usually when I see something on social media from a girl I am or have been interested in, and I feel I missed out on her due to rejection, or in the past she mistreated me. Then I go through periods of "letting go", where I feel okay, and not thirsty at all and just unplug from girls/sex. Back and forth. I'd say definitely more of the second is occurring than the first. If I had to pick the more dominant one, I'd say the second, the "non-thirsty almost not caring" one. It's hard to truly know if it's "non-thirsty not caring", or some part giving up on the idea of girls and sex to be honest. I've struggled trying to separate those often. It does feel weird to be as obsessed as I was in the past for girls and sex though, if that helps diagnose lol. It "feels" normal to me, dating girls and having sex etc., but I also understand I don't have success with either and haven't in my entire life at the same time. It "feels" normal, even though it hasn't been for me. I know we are built for it, or humanity wouldn't be here, so clearly it's "normal", haha. It's like a duality of feeling on it. Maybe someday it'll be "normal" for me too
.I do feel more calm and relaxed with girls. Things flow better as a result in conversations. Rapport in general is quickly gained in most cases, half of that is me having great social skills beforehand, I've worked hard on them for a long time. They've served me well in business. But I notice a change in attitude in others when greeting me and interacting with me they don't have when dealing with others before or after me. Also you are remembered afterwards, many small details from previous interactions are remembered too. Nothing wrong with that.
I can't say I've noticed much of the sexual attraction stuff. If it's there, it's been too slight to notice, or they haven't been willing to act on it for whatever reason. Nice "vibe" is there and all, but it still feels like YOU have to do the driving for the interaction or nothing happens. I admit I've had no dates, make outs, sex yet. It still feels like somewhat of an invisible wall in front of me and girls/sex for now, there just doesn't seem to be any actual attraction I don't think. I have a ways to go yet I guess, more internal work mixed with a lot more focus on making girls able to initiate and escalate like the design goal is desiring them to. That still seems to be a herculean task that I honestly admit I have doubts about. I guess I'm just not able to believe some of the really gorgeous girls I know would be able to find themselves deeply sexually attracted to me now and pursue me aggressively to have sex with them. Even when they have a sea of options chasing them, I don't see why they would bother chasing ME. And that they'd be attracted to me based off of how attractive I find them, I still don't know how that part of the sub is going to work. That they find me hot, because I find them hot, and it's the same level of attraction returned to you somehow.
I may have left things out, I'll come back and fill in blanks if so. I'll answer any questions posed.
It feels good to be back journaling, trying to give back to the community again. Thank you again to the IML gods for the gesture for the forum. I made sure it wouldn't go to waste on me, and wanted to contribute again. I hope others follow suit!
I plan to use this version until the next version drops, which is hopefully somewhat soon. This version may be like a stalemate in my mind, it'd be great to finally start making true progress in there...
All the best for now, friends!
RE: Turning Over A New Leaf - DMSI V3.3.1-D - Steve_ - 03-14-2019
Great Journal, CatMan. I look forward to reading more
RE: Turning Over A New Leaf - DMSI V3.3.1-D - Benjamin - 03-14-2019
Good to hear things are improving man of the cat.
RE: Turning Over A New Leaf - DMSI V3.3.1-D - Kol - 03-14-2019
Good to see you back Catman.
RE: Turning Over A New Leaf - DMSI V3.3.1-D - Shannon - 03-18-2019
Quote:I can't say I've noticed much of the sexual attraction stuff. If it's there, it's been too slight to notice, or they haven't been willing to act on it for whatever reason. Nice "vibe" is there and all, but it still feels like YOU have to do the driving for the interaction or nothing happens. I admit I've had no dates, make outs, sex yet. It still feels like somewhat of an invisible wall in front of me and girls/sex for now, there just doesn't seem to be any actual attraction I don't think. I have a ways to go yet I guess, more internal work mixed with a lot more focus on making girls able to initiate and escalate like the design goal is desiring them to. That still seems to be a herculean task that I honestly admit I have doubts about. I guess I'm just not able to believe some of the really gorgeous girls I know would be able to find themselves deeply sexually attracted to me now and pursue me aggressively to have sex with them. Even when they have a sea of options chasing them, I don't see why they would bother chasing ME. And that they'd be attracted to me based off of how attractive I find them, I still don't know how that part of the sub is going to work. That they find me hot, because I find them hot, and it's the same level of attraction returned to you somehow.
I saw some things in your post when you made it that I wanted to address, as they seemed to represent misunderstanding, but of course got distracted with everything else I have to do recently. So let's make a quick post here.
You apparently keep hiding behind this same faulty thinking:
Quote:I'm just not able to believe some of the really gorgeous girls I know would be able to find themselves deeply sexually attracted to me now and pursue me aggressively to have sex with them.
The truth is, you are able to believe whatever you choose to believe. This is apparently why you aren't executing yet: you choose to believe things like this. These beliefs are self limiting beliefs, and they result in you refusing to execute because there is apparently a cognitive dissonance that you have between those beliefs and the goals of DMSI.
Women decide what they think of you based on what you tell them to think of you. You keep insisting on telling them, with the body language, choices, actions and reactions that would naturally result from such limiting beliefs, that you aren't qualified to be their choice. They will be glad to believe you and rule you out if you self disqualify, because that is something only someone of low social value and self esteem/self confidence would do. High value women don't have time for that. They have too many guys interested already, so they naturally filter out all but the potentially high value guys. You know this. And unless you're a really good troll and you're just trolling us on this whole virginity/DMSI thing, the problem still remains that you have yourself locked in failure based thinking, which is why you are failing.
This can - as far as I can see - only be the result of one of the following options:
A) You genuinely believe these things that limit you, because you also believe that they keep you safe from ever experiencing what traumatized you in the past, and because of the amount of fear and trauma, coupled with your incredibly rigid personality, you refuse to allow those limiting beliefs to change to beliefs that would allow you to execute DMSI and achieve the goals of the program.
B) You are at some level convinced that you are in some sort of contest or battle of wills with me and the only way to win is to refuse to execute.
C) You're just trolling us all massively and you really are getting results from DMSI and/or are not a virgin. If this is the case, let me congratulate you on being exceptionally skilled at it.
D) Some combination of these three.
Presuming you believe you're telling the truth, and you really are having this experience and you aren't trolling us, you need to realize the following facts:
1. You cannot decide for anyone else what they think of you. Only they can do that.
2. You don't have the right to decide for her if she thinks you are attractive or not.
3. You can intentionally disqualify yourself in her eyes, and that, as far as I can tell, is exactly what you keep doing - on purpose.
4. You keep trying to prevent DMSI from working by being locked in the following limiting thinking and beliefs:
- I'm just not able to believe some of the really gorgeous girls I know would be able to find themselves deeply sexually attracted to me now and pursue me aggressively to have sex with them.
- If I trust a woman, I will get hurt/burned/accused of rape/etc.
- If I allow any woman to be (sexually and/or romantically) attracted to me, she will hurt/burn/accused me of rape/etc.
- I am not good enough to get any woman I really find attractive to have sex and/or a relationship with me.
- It happened this way/was true in the past, so it must happen this way/be true in the future.
- If I convince myself that I am incapable of doing what is necessary to achieve these goals, I can hide forever from executing, achieving them and the scary things I imagine would result.
- All I have to do to stay safe is believe the things that prevent me from achieving the goals of this program/having sex/having a relationship/etc.
- I would rather have no sex/relationship because it keeps me safe/proves I have a stronger will than Shannon can influence/whatever.
Ultimately, it boils down to two things:
1. Whatever you most and genuinely want, you will experience.
2. Whatever you most and genuinely believe, you will experience.
If you manage to resist DMSI all the way through 3.4, you will have what? Personally, I landed a lifelong relationship with a great woman who has/is everything I want, by executing, back at v3.1. I don't need DMSI anymore. And I'm not the only one who can say that. What will you have if you refuse to execute even 3.4? The ability to say DMSI didn't work for you? Is that some sort of badge of honor for you, some sort of "win"? If it is, and even 3.4 doesn't get you going, enjoy your "win". Is it the ability to feel safe from all those evil females out there, whom you believe to all be out to get you? If so, enjoy your porn and your self-made mental prison.
When you want the goals of DMSI more than you want what you have, you'll let go of those beliefs that limit you to what you have, and allow the rest to happen. So far all that mental prison of self limiting beliefs you lock yourself up with seems to have gotten you is... nothing. Literally.
RE: Turning Over A New Leaf - DMSI V3.3.1-D - CatMan - 03-18-2019
Hmm...well in a sense I wish I WAS just trolling and really was living an amazing life executing with beautiful women...I wish that so badly...I've dreamed of being "that guy" my entire life. I wasn't expecting to be called a troll for simply journaling my experience wow...
I appreciate the detailed message, Shannon. I wondered whether you saw it or not, and I know you were previously on your break. I felt the need to try to journal again to help R&D, to give you info, in return for the forum cleanse as that is a gesture I and others appreciate. It's the least I can do even if I haven't enjoyed it much in the past.
I'm happy for you that you found someone. That's fantastic. However, I can't think of many cases of clear design goal so far in this version, from guys that weren't already getting results with women like NoLimit for example. He got great results before he has said in the past, and also did so on previous versions. Overall, epic results seem to be the exception more than the rule currently. Which is to be expected still, don't get me wrong. My point is that my results aren't atypical based off what I've seen, I felt my situation was being labelled as the minority which I don't feel is the case at all. It seems there's a way to go yet with development.
To clarify, I'm not trolling, I have far better things to do with my time. I'm grateful for my time here and wouldn't want to squander it, or your time, with nonsense like that.
I'm not in some attempt to "prove you wrong" on anything either. I don't even see the purpose of doing that to someone on the other side of the internet. Again, I have better things to do with my time. I merely want to achieve the goals of this program, if that is possible.
I just wanted to try to give something to the forum to help advance the sub in my posts if possible. And to pay back the debt of goodwill the IML team gave the forum recently. If my posts aren't of value, I can stop. I'm not here wasting time trolling, but if that impression has been taken somehow, obviously my post isn't of value or is deemed redundant. Fair enough, I just wanted to try to contribute something for R&D again in the hopes something of value could be found.
I am indeed a virgin, never had a girlfriend, a date, or kissed a girl. I'm 37. I don't like stating all that, obviously no guy would. But just to clear the air, there it is.
I've simply never had those "gorgeous girls" sexually attracted to me in my life despite trying, I've been rejected each time I've tried to escalate myself as well, so it seems massively far fetched currently due to it NEVER happening before. I think the implications of that are being grossly underestimated. You seem to have this view that I just randomly "decided" that "gorgeous girls don't like me" with zero basis and without trying to ask them out etc. I have asked them out many times over my life, both before the program, and during the program, although in the last few years I've really slowed down on trying and asking. Not to say it's impossible for it to occur, but never having experienced it in my life, it's hard to truly BELIEVE in it. It's a complete 180 from my reality. I know you've said before you need to believe it's possible, which surprised me because I remember reading how belief isn't required for the subs in the FAQ. But if it's never happened one time all along, for decades now, I don't see how that's easily achieved without massive crushing evidence to the contrary that the old paradigm no longer exists and at least one or two DO find me sexually attractive and act on it clearly to me. Chicken and the egg I guess. Especially when I do continue to attempt to date girls when I try to make the first move after not seeing much design goalish behaviour from them so I figure I should at least try to do something myself, I get rejected or they don't reply to a text/message to go out etc. I seem to hit this "wall" in front of them, I can never breakthrough to be a guy they find attractive somehow, always the friend nice/funny/charming guy that just mysteriously never actually gets them attracted to me. Which just adds fuel to this fire, makes the belief even stronger then! I feel if I don't try anything, they don't act out design goal and nothing happens. And if I have tried to force it and escalate on my own without waiting for them to do it like design goal desires to do someday, it's a rejection or non-response. Which further fuels the belief again! It's a circle that I feel only a massive paradigm shift based off clear real life results can break, ultimately. I feel it's unfair to criticise the logic, when the logic is merely receiving feedback from women. Feedback that has only been negative for a lifetime, zero positive feedback, something that again I feel is being seriously underestimated in it's scope and ability to cripple you. "Get over it" or "believe the exact opposite of what has proven itself true your whole life with zero evidence to support it" isn't going to cut it. Because when I do that, I try and dare to be great, ask one out, it falls flat, I feel like shit again, and it gets reinforced slightly. I can't seem to dig myself out, even if I TRY to ask them out! I need REAL positive results in reality with these kinds of girls to dig out of the hole, I see no other way.
Unless, a workaround may be to massively enhance the self esteem/limiting beliefs area of the sub. Maybe something about old past events connected to those, and either reframing the impact, or making you let go of the impact. Kind of a "fake it until you make it" option.
Personally, I think it will boil down to at least some aspects of the sub being forced. I don't know, I don't see too many other ways around it. Some patterns are burned in by decades of clear precedents in cases, completely opposite to what the program says is possible. So, it seems to me, it will boil down to one of two scenarios:
1. You make the sub work where very attractive women, ones we realistically believed beforehand were out of our league, "aggressively pursue us for sex". Thus helping us past the old paradigms in our heads by showing clear results in reality...
OR
2. Some parts of the sub that need the mind reframing things or dealing with limiting beliefs etc. or whatever other issues these relate to, may need to be auto'd.
I don't know, Shannon, I don't envy your position. People, including myself in the past which I've felt guilty about often, have put you up on this pedestal to somehow slay the demons in our minds that have thrived and ruled over us for decades. All the girls of my past, I expected you to wipe them all aside through this program and allow me to be the man I've always wished I could be. Ridiculous pressure to put on you, I'm really sorry for that. That's why for a long time I've taken a back seat and tried to be much more cavalier about it, it wasn't fair to expect all that. And it seemed to be hitting a brick wall anyway, so I've just taken a far more relaxed approach to the program and it's future to stop feeling so disappointed like I did in the past. If I've struggled dealing with my past, I can hardly expect somebody else to handle it FOR me.
Not to mention, I know how you don't want to remove free will, I get it. So I look at things and think to myself often "okay, so this program is supposed to get women we find sexually attractive, find US sexually attractive, BECAUSE we find them sexually attractive, and to the degree we find them sexually attractive, and then aggressively pursue us to have sex with them". Now, if we take my "gorgeous girls" that are around me let's say, girls I flunked out of in the past in various ways at various times. I just fail to see how if there's no free will forcing, how this program will even work to make them want me now. Seems it'll just be a stalemate, as I'm not their "type" for whatever reason, and nothing happens. I'm not saying we SHOULD be forcing them to like us, I doubt that's even possible anyway. My point is I don't see how the program can work on girls given the above. It doesn't help that I haven't felt such attraction first hand from one of them to know it's realistic for me also, I suppose. But still, that example gives me big doubts about the program as it always has, I don't see how anything happens in that situation. Or even how the program is actually supposed to work, from a theory standpoint. I've never really understood that, but I'm not really into the whole aura scene thing, I admit.
Anyway, all the best to you. I hope your new project you're working on currently is paying off well. You truly deserve it.
Thanks again for taking the time to write to me. I'm sorry my post gave you a bad impression of me.
RE: Turning Over A New Leaf - DMSI V3.3.1-D - Infinite - 03-19-2019
I am one of those women who at one point in my life attracted the best looking, most successful guys in the room. I went from that to attracting the ugliest, least successful guys in the crowd. I know that my upbringing had a lot to do with attracting the ugly ones, but there was something about me that still managed to attract great quality men inspite of all the lies I was made to believe while growing up. I was mostly attracting the ugly ones when I began to use the subs. I've been using the subs for 9 months, and I am attracting the higher quality men again. I still attract the ugly ones, and when they open up their mouth, ugh, these guys are very low class, low quality people. I'm learning to blow them off. It's not their looks, it's how they behave, but somehow what's on their inside gets reflected out.
The sub alone is not just going to do it, you also have to know that you can change, your attitude makes a big difference. Knowing that every situation that you encounter. Wether it's going to the grocery store or going to a party, you're going to get great results. You have to believe it, and keep your eyes open. For my SO, there were many years of not attracting good looking women, and so he didn't even look anymore to see if other women were paying attention. He had to almost train himself to be aware of the interest, because most women will show interest from far away. It's not always when they're close up.
RE: Turning Over A New Leaf - DMSI V3.3.1-D - Shadow2200 - 03-19-2019
(03-19-2019, 04:04 AM)Infinite Wrote: I am one of those women who at one point in my life attracted the best looking, most successful guys in the room. I went from that to attracting the ugliest, least successful guys in the crowd. I know that my upbringing had a lot to do with attracting the ugly ones, but there was something about me that still managed to attract great quality men inspite of all the lies I was made to believe while growing up. I was mostly attracting the ugly ones when I began to use the subs. I've been using the subs for 9 months, and I am attracting the higher quality men again. I still attract the ugly ones, and when they open up their mouth, ugh, these guys are very low class, low quality people. I'm learning to blow them off. It's not their looks, it's how they behave, but somehow what's on their inside gets reflected out.
The sub alone is not just going to do it, you also have to know that you can change, your attitude makes a big difference. Knowing that every situation that you encounter. Wether it's going to the grocery store or going to a party, you're going to get great results. You have to believe it, and keep your eyes open. For my SO, there were many years of not attracting good looking women, and so he didn't even look anymore to see if other women were paying attention. He had to almost train himself to be aware of the interest, because most women will show interest from far away. It's not always when they're close up.
Well said, you have to be ready to act on her signals. Even then you have to be prepared to go ahead even if your not getting attention. I do think we are getting closer to having it strong enough ware it's strong enough to get results without any effort at all.
RE: Turning Over A New Leaf - DMSI V3.3.1-D - Shannon - 03-19-2019
Quote:I wasn't expecting to be called a troll for simply journaling my experience wow...
If I was calling you a troll, I would have decided you were a troll and you'd have been banned. I'm not calling you a troll, but that does seem one of the few options we have left to explain your particular situation, so I included it.
Quote:I'm not in some attempt to "prove you wrong" on anything either. I don't even see the purpose of doing that to someone on the other side of the internet. Again, I have better things to do with my time. I merely want to achieve the goals of this program, if that is possible.
I hope not, because that would be a ridiculous waste of your time and mine.
Quote:I've simply never had those "gorgeous girls" sexually attracted to me in my life despite trying, I've been rejected each time I've tried to escalate myself as well, so it seems massively far fetched currently due to it NEVER happening before. I think the implications of that are being grossly underestimated.
Not in the slightest. The problem is that you either cannot comprehend one specific point I keep making over and over, or refuse to see it. That is, you are insisting on the past. "It has always been like this, so it always must be like this." We have been over this at least four times now. I think personally that you're just refusing to get it because that possibility scares you so much.
If you look at life, the only constant is change. It takes effort to resist that.
Quote:You seem to have this view that I just randomly "decided" that "gorgeous girls don't like me" with zero basis and without trying to ask them out etc.
No, I believe that you have decided that females are a threat, and you must protect yourself from them at any and all costs. And to preserve that, again at any and all cost, you are shaping anything and everything to that goal.
Basis doesn't matter, because that is the past. The past is over. We aren't living in the past, we are living in the now, and in the now you have a clean slate to do and experience whatever you choose to. You keep choosing to experience what you have already experienced, which is failure. The only reason you could be doing that is if you have some sort of brain damage that makes other courses of action impossible, or if you are choosing to do so as a way to avoid fear. ALL of your issue stems from this one point: you keep insisting that because it happened that way in the past, it must happen that way in the future. This is false, faulty logic, and limiting thinking that holds you where you are. People say what they want you to think, and then they do the truth; this means, whatever we have is what we truly want, and in your case, it is apparently this:
Quote:I am indeed a virgin, never had a girlfriend, a date, or kissed a girl.
You have apparently shaped your personal identity around and based it so heavily on being a virgin and a failure with women that you are apparently afraid for that to change because you wouldn't know what to replace it with. If you identify as "an alcoholic", what are you going to do? What an alcoholic does: drink too much alcohol, thus perpetuating the identity of "alcoholic". In your case, I think you're holding onto and hiding behind "I am a virgin". You may be a virgin, but you don't have to be, and you could change that today if you really wanted to, in more than one way, I'm sure. You have to start looking at yourself as being something less limiting than "a virgin at 37". Virginity doesn't really make sense as an identity. But if this is correct, and you have grasped this as your core identity, then you need to change that to focus on something else that doesn't limit you by self perpetuation.
Quote:it's hard to truly BELIEVE in it. It's a complete 180 from my reality.[/quote]
Limiting beliefs. As long as you believe these things, you will experience that reality. What you have is the result of what you believe to be true. Since what you believe to be true is those things, that is the reality you create for yourself.
Quote:I know you've said before you need to believe it's possible, which surprised me because I remember reading how belief isn't required for the subs in the FAQ. But if it's never happened one time all along, for decades now, I don't see how that's easily achieved without massive crushing evidence to the contrary that the old paradigm no longer exists and at least one or two DO find me sexually attractive and act on it clearly to me. Chicken and the egg I guess.
There is a big difference between believing it's possible to experience something other than what you have, which is blatant common sense, and what you're interpreting it as, which is "belief is required for the sub to work".
To execute the subliminal and achieve the results, you do not need to believe that the subliminal works. Subliminals can and do work whether or not you "believe in them" if they are properly made and used.
You do need to stop intentionally blocking yourself from executing and achieving the goal by insistently believing things that prevent that outcome. Big difference.
You, sir, are the elephant with the golden chain around his foot. And your limits are your choice and your doing, on purpose, because you fear the alternative. You have created this mental prison for yourself to avoid what the goals of DMSI are. You refuse to execute the script, so it cannot take effect, because of that fear.
This requires that you choose to believe what you want to believe instead of what is actually there, because otherwise you might have to change, experience change, and face or overcome your fears.
Quote:Which just adds fuel to this fire, makes the belief even stronger then!
You are stuck in a cycle of failure in this case, we can surely agree on that. Why? Because you insist on using as input, the wrong data.
Point #1: WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE PAST IS IN THE PAST, AND THE FUTURE CAN BE WHATEVER YOU CHOOSE FOR IT TO BE. The past != the future.
Point #2: Your beliefs result in your choice, which result in your actions, which result in your results.
Point #3: You keep insisting on building and basing your beliefs on the past. The past has only been failure. If you really want to have sex, or have a relationship, or change any of this, you have to stop doing what doesn't work. How many times have you tried and failed, and the "logically" concluded that "Well this must be the way it is and always be, because this is how it always happens."? That leads to beliefs, which lead to choices, which lead to actions, which lead to results that:
A) You have already done before, and
B) DON'T WORK for achieving sex. That ONLY works for achieving more of what you already have!
Point #4: To have DMSI fail for you to the degree that it has means you are making a concerted effort to prevent it from working. We know this because we have seen it work for those who did not resist, more than once.
Point #5: If you start basing your beliefs on what will allow you to achieve those goals (sex, relationships, etc.) you will at the very least open the door to experiencing them (make them POSSIBLE), and more than likely, you will end up experiencing them. You keep insisting on "evidence before you believe", but you keep ignoring the evidence or intentionally interpreting it in ways that summarily invalidate it in order to maintain your current status quo of beliefs, choices, actions and results. If you refuse to believe that what you want is at least possible to achieve, then two things are true:
A) You are making the choice to close the door on making them possible to achieve by doing so, and that choice is based on an underlying intent and goal that is thereby what you are truly wanting to achieve instead.
B) You are wasting your time trying. As long as you hold the door shut and then complain that it won't open YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME and trying to distract yourself and everyone else from the fact that YOU ARE HOLDING THAT DOOR SHUT BY CHOICE, because what you really want is what's motivating you to hold it shut.
So your solution? Change your beliefs that the present and the future and present must be the same as the past. Stop holding shut the door to the future you claim to want being possible. Open that door by choosing to accept the reality (and fact) that ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE. Then you have the possibility of achieving what you want, and you can work towards actually making it happen, instead of constantly banging on the door to open that YOU ARE HOLDING SHUT.
Quote:I feel if I don't try anything, they don't act out design goal and nothing happens.
Are you achieving design goal by trying what you're trying? Are feelings logical? The answer to both is no. And if doing nothing results in the exact same thing, why then would you worry about it? Just report and give me feedback so I can make adjustments.
Quote:And if I have tried to force it and escalate on my own without waiting for them to do it like design goal desires to do someday, it's a rejection or non-response. Which further fuels the belief again!
I never said you had to avoid trying with DMSI, but it should be pretty obvious at this point that whatever it is you are doing, isn't working. Why would you keep doing the same thing when you know it doesn't work? And why do you insist on basing your beliefs on what you know doesn't work? Is it because you really want what you already have, and this is how you maintain that status quo at any and all costs? I think it is.
Quote:It's a circle that I feel only a massive paradigm shift based off clear real life results can break, ultimately.
You're partly right. You definitely do need a massive paradigm shift, but the results you insist on having before you make that paradigm shift are what comes after the shift, not before. And again, you said you "feel" it, which means you're not thinking with logic, but emotions, which are the antithesis of logic. Which explains why you are stuck in this cycle of failure. You keep insisting on having the results that come after the required change, in order to be willing to make the required change that will result in those results. That is about as illogical as it gets.
Quote:I feel it's unfair to criticise the logic, when the logic is merely receiving feedback from women.
Unfair to criticize the logic? There is no logic, my friend. Logic states that when you do X and it doesn't work, and you do it again a thousand more times and it still doesn't work, it probably failed because you're doing it wrong and the solution to that is to change something. You never change anything. The only change you allow in is a different version of DMSI, which so far you have always responded to the same way: prevent execution. Logically if the response you have had from women is consistently negative, YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING WRONG. Logically that means YOU CHANGE SOMETHING. And logically, if as you have said before, nothing you have tried has worked, THE PROBLEM MUST BE YOU. Which means THE CHANGE MUST BE IN YOU! And that change must logically be to something that has otherwise not changed during all this time, and the only thing that hasn't changed in all this time is... YOUR BELIEFS!
Quote:Feedback that has only been negative for a lifetime, zero positive feedback, something that again I feel is being seriously underestimated in it's scope and ability to cripple you.
That feedback can only cripple if you respond to it in a way that allows it to cripple you. First and foremost, you have the problem here that you believe that what those women have responded with defines you and your identity. You are not understanding the feedback as it really is. What it really is, is them saying, "You're not ready yet, there's something wrong still." Not "You're a loser and you will always be a loser and I will never accept or have sex with you."
Stop framing it as gospel that can't be changed and start considering it an opinion and constructive criticism instead. "Okay, that didn't work. It's nothing personal, but I must be doing something wrong, understanding something wrong, so I need to make changes to my understanding (beliefs) and my choices and actions to get different results."
Quote:"Get over it" or "believe the exact opposite of what has proven itself true your whole life with zero evidence to support it" isn't going to cut it.
Nothing has "proven itself true your whole life" except that you need to think differently than you do in order to achieve the goals you say you have. That is the common denominator here. Your thinking. And your thinking is based on your beliefs. Your beliefs are what you have accepted as true, and they result in what you choose, what you do, and what you experience. You don't need to "believe the exact opposite of what has proven itself true your whole life", you need to understand your logic errors in believing that what you thought was proven true was proven true!
Quote:Because when I do that, I try and dare to be great, ask one out, it falls flat, I feel like shit again, and it gets reinforced slightly. I can't seem to dig myself out, even if I TRY to ask them out!
Okay, so you have tried to do what I am saying to do, and it hasn't worked for you. But that's because you're still not following some things. Once again... if what you have always tried to do has always failed, you have to change something. You have to approach it differently, do it differently, frame it differently, something.
Secondly, why would you feel like shit if a woman turns you down for a date? It's not personal. It is just her deciding not to go on a date with you. You're framing it in far too personal terms here. Consider this: what would you feel like if you walked up to a 5/10 and asked her out and she rejected you? Would you feel bad because "gosh, she's just a 5 and she rejected me" or would you respond with "your loss, lady"? If you didn't say "Your loss", you're basing your personal self worth on her response to you. That means you don't look within yourself to find your self worth, and that is ALWAYS going to fail. If you take a woman's rejection as an indicator of your personal self worth, as it seems you do, then you need to change that belief too, the one that says: "I look to her to tell me what to think of myself." No, you have that backwards. YOU decide what to think of yourself, and then when you have done that, everything else will fall into place.
It's just like when I was learning how to make an exposure properly in photography. You do the key right, and everything else is automatically right. If you expose the most important tone of the image subject correctly. all the other tones are all automatically exposed correctly.
If you base your self esteem, self worth and self respect on your own beliefs and choices, then you will never be asking anyone else what your worth is, and they will never reject you for doing so. This is a big point, I think: women will smell this miles away. Asking her what your value is, automatically assigns you a low value, and she will reject that.
Think about this. You are approaching a woman you think is gorgeous. This woman doubtless has lots of guys interested, probably all the time. This would make her believe that she is of high value, socially, sexually and romantically. She naturally wants to find a man who is AT LEAST as valuable as she is in those directions. Then you show up and through your actions, body language and choices, you say to her, "Am I good enough?" Instantly she knows the answer is a solid, resounding NO! Why? Because nobody on or above her level would ever ask her that! They already know they're good enough!
Quote:I need REAL positive results in reality with these kinds of girls to dig out of the hole, I see no other way.
And that is why you're stuck in this cycle of failure. You are again insisting on getting the result of the change in order to be willing and able to make the change that results in the desired outcome. That is illogical. It also fails every time, which you may have noticed.
Quote:Unless, a workaround may be to massively enhance the self esteem/limiting beliefs area of the sub. Maybe something about old past events connected to those, and either reframing the impact, or making you let go of the impact. Kind of a "fake it until you make it" option.
That's all been there for ages. You refuse to execute. I enhance it, you defeat it. I enhance it, you defeat it. There's not much left for me to try in that direction without taking away your freedom of choice, which I will never do.
Quote:Personally, I think it will boil down to at least some aspects of the sub being forced. I don't know, I don't see too many other ways around it. Some patterns are burned in by decades of clear precedents in cases, completely opposite to what the program says is possible. So, it seems to me, it will boil down to one of two scenarios:
1. You make the sub work where very attractive women, ones we realistically believed beforehand were out of our league, "aggressively pursue us for sex". Thus helping us past the old paradigms in our heads by showing clear results in reality...
OR
2. Some parts of the sub that need the mind reframing things or dealing with limiting beliefs etc. or whatever other issues these relate to, may need to be auto'd.
[/quote]
I think that all you need to do is:
1. Stop basing your self image, identity, self esteem and self worth on what others say, do, think, and
2. Stop insisting on getting the results before you make the changes that will result in those results.
These are all choices. What you're telling me is that you are unwilling to do what is necessary to achieve your own goals, and you want me to take away your freedom of choice to achieve them. If that's really the case, you don't really want them. You want what you have. Which we already knew by your results.
Quote:I don't know, Shannon, I don't envy your position. People, including myself in the past which I've felt guilty about often, have put you up on this pedestal to somehow slay the demons in our minds that have thrived and ruled over us for decades. All the girls of my past, I expected you to wipe them all aside through this program and allow me to be the man I've always wished I could be. Ridiculous pressure to put on you, I'm really sorry for that. That's why for a long time I've taken a back seat and tried to be much more cavalier about it, it wasn't fair to expect all that. And it seemed to be hitting a brick wall anyway, so I've just taken a far more relaxed approach to the program and it's future to stop feeling so disappointed like I did in the past. If I've struggled dealing with my past, I can hardly expect somebody else to handle it FOR me.
It's not about pressure on me. It's about those two things I said above. You have at least one part of you that is dead set on staying where you are forever, and you have a part that wants change. The part(s) dead set on status quo are stronger than the one that wants change. They are, in at least one case, NOT LOGICAL. What kind of fucked-up "logic" is it to demand that someone catch a ball in order for you to throw the ball to them? You keep insisting on getting the outcome. You refuse to make happen the things that result in that outcome until you get it. This means you can never get that outcome, because you won't do what results in that outcome, because you didn't have that outcome. That is the epitome of illogical thinking!
1. Stop basing your self image, identity, self esteem and self worth on what others say, do, think, and
2. Stop insisting on getting the results before you make the changes that will result in those results.
Quote:Not to mention, I know how you don't want to remove free will, I get it. So I look at things and think to myself often "okay, so this program is supposed to get women we find sexually attractive, find US sexually attractive, BECAUSE we find them sexually attractive, and to the degree we find them sexually attractive, and then aggressively pursue us to have sex with them". Now, if we take my "gorgeous girls" that are around me let's say, girls I flunked out of in the past in various ways at various times. I just fail to see how if there's no free will forcing, how this program will even work to make them want me now. Seems it'll just be a stalemate, as I'm not their "type" for whatever reason, and nothing happens. I'm not saying we SHOULD be forcing them to like us, I doubt that's even possible anyway. My point is I don't see how the program can work on girls given the above. It doesn't help that I haven't felt such attraction first hand from one of them to know it's realistic for me also, I suppose. But still, that example gives me big doubts about the program as it always has, I don't see how anything happens in that situation. Or even how the program is actually supposed to work, from a theory standpoint. I've never really understood that, but I'm not really into the whole aura scene thing, I admit.
It's supposed to get them to find you sexually attractive because you influenced their energy the right way. Not "because you find them sexually attractive". Baseline will affect any woman. Those you find attractive enough, will become the focus of your energy and be influenced more. This really isn't anything different than we already do every day without realizing it, except I have magnified it a lot.
And you also don't understand how the CERN Collider works, but you know it does. Knowing and understanding how and why something works doesn't make it work. DMSI can and does work regardless of whether or not you understand how - you just have to get out of your own way with limiting beliefs and responses.
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RE: Turning Over A New Leaf - DMSI V3.3.1-D - DarkPlouf - 03-19-2019
Hey CatMan. Long time no see.
Luckily I just saw your journal today as well as Shannon's really, really great answer above.
I'd like to jump on the occasion and say something.
First, I'm not trying to give any relationship/sexual advice, but if you remember me, I'm sharing a lot with your stuggles. I had the same beliefs you have now (that I agree are limiting), the same trauma, the same experience, same results...basically, all your issues woman related, I had those too, but the only difference is that you're older than me. It's just that.
Now, the thing is I really overcame that - all of that, and I'm not like that anymore. So I want to say a few words because that's something that in your shoes I wish I had realized sooner. I'm not trying to be that guy that transcended life and now want to tell people what to do, but what made me shift my beliefs were the words of a random guy on the internet. So hey, I'm trying to do my part too and pass the baton.
One day I was browsing YouTube and I found the story of a youtuber I had subscribed for before. Basically, the story were along the lines of "Until you accept that you are unhappy because you CHOOSE to be, you'll never get out of the rut you're in." and I really disagreed with him at that time. I thought that was outrageous and inappropriate of him to say so.
He later made a video about it, and everything clicked. This is the random internet guy that made me change my mind. Basically what he said is that the state of mind you're currently in is a state of mind you've chosen, and none of the things we perceive as external are responsible for your happiness. Being happy is a state of mind you have to make the effort to choose. So you are responsible for it.
Replace "happiness/unhappiness" with your woman-related issues and that's exactly what Shannon states.
I may sound like an idiot if that's obvious to people, but for me it really wasn't. I thought being confident/happy and valuable to myself was something that was supposed to "happen" to me, like a random event I can hardly control, but it's in fact something I can get just like that! It requires just the effort to choose. The thing that I had never been taught is that: you can choose your state of mind, and it requires conscious effort and that's normal.
You really have to change your mindset like Shannon said. You'll never get out of the rut you're in otherwise. For me it worked and I felt so stupid for not realizing that sooner.
Since I started to apply what that guy said, I've never been happier in my life. I value myself however I want and I don't care at all about the external things. I mean, why would I when I have my own view of self-worth?
I wish I could tell you "I have now a GF now and voila" but this is not my point. I do not know if shifting your mindset will get you laid (I believe it will, but I don't know) but what I know is that this is the right mindset to have if you care about your self-development journey. Shannon is 10000% right about the rejection part. If you define your self-worth and values for yourself, you'll stop feeling shit at any random things that happen, including rejection.
Basically, everything Shannon said right here is something I can testify at 100%, for having the exact same struggles as you in the past:
Quote:That feedback can only cripple if you respond to it in a way that allows it to cripple you
Quote:That means you don't look within yourself to find your self worth, and that is ALWAYS going to fail. If you take a woman's rejection as an indicator of your personal self worth, as it seems you do, then you need to change that belief too, the one that says: "I look to her to tell me what to think of myself." No, you have that backwards. YOU decide what to think of yourself, and then when you have done that, everything else will fall into place.
If you base your self esteem, self worth and self respect on your own beliefs and choices, then you will never be asking anyone else what your worth is, and they will never reject you for doing so. This is a big point, I think: women will smell this miles away. Asking her what your value is, automatically assigns you a low value, and she will reject that.
Now, you said:
Quote:"Get over it" or "believe the exact opposite of what has proven itself true your whole life with zero evidence to support it" isn't going to cut it.Actually, it does cut it! And that's exactly what you have to do.
What Shannon and that youtuber said are actually backed by science. You're a man of logic? Then watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ0_p2nnK2Q.
The "Theory of constructed emotion" implies that your brain takes into account data inside your body and compares that against past experiences [that happened INSIDE your body] to create an emotion. And guess what, "you can change the software in your heads". Basically, that states that you can train your mind to apprehend life the way you want. Gurus have been right all along, you can literally choose your self-worth for yourself.
This is a whole new and legit view at treating things like depression. And it all starts by just making the conscious effort to decide, and choose.
Hope that'll help persuade you man, it just isn't worth it at all to keep having these beliefs. Why waste your time struggling when you can choose not to?
If I hadn't realized what these people said, I think I'd still be running DMSI by now and still struggle.
Again, I can't claim you'll get your holy grail - getting laid, with this but all I know is that this is 100% the right mindset to have while approaching life and the benefits are way over getting into woman skirts.
P.S: If you're interested in that youtube video, it's right here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUREmOL0kmU. Disclaimer: he's a spiritual guy, but his words are sharp and rightful.