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+--- Thread: Dubls Mans Up - AM6 i (1-5), ii (5-10) (/Thread-Dubls-Mans-Up-AM6-i-1-5-ii-5-10)
RE: Essy Mans The ***k Up [AM6] - I (p.1-5), II (p.5--) - ffaux - 10-20-2015
(10-20-2015, 05:27 PM)essy Wrote: @EVERYBODY I'd still like to know what you think about post #113 (scroll up). Would be interesting to get Shannon's take as well.
Shannon talks about subliminal programs becoming self-reinforcing if you run a subliminal long enough that a virtuous loop forms where your behaviour reinforces the beliefs which drive the behaviour and so on. Then you no longer need the subliminal in order to support the programming.
Stage 4, Day 17 - Dubls - 10-24-2015
The ups of this program make the downs worse. The downs I experience are rarely rock bottom, but rather a reminder of the shit programming I used to have all the time. Being aware of that programming, and having experienced better, makes those old thoughts and feelings sting more.
I met my friend for a late lunch. As we're waiting for a table, two cute girls enter and wait. Shortly after my friend and I are seated, the girls are literally seated right next to us. From this point forward, and until they left, I was tense.
I was highly conscious of my body language, the tone and volume of my voice, the words that I spoke, the way I ate, etc. I was concerned with appearing cool and manly, even though—and here's the clincher—I had no intention whatsoever of talking to them. In fact, I hardly acknowledged their presence, because I didn't want them to think I was interested but too much of a pussy to do anything about it, and yet there I was preening myself.
Of course this tension and awareness of my own insecurity wreaks havoc on my confidence. Old doubts crept in: I'm almost 30 with very little sexual experience. My junk is too small. I'll cum too soon. Male-female dynamics are alien to me. I've never had a fruitful social life. My friends are losers. I'm a loser. I have so much catching up to do. It's too late for me, etc. Thankfully conversing with my friend kept my head above water.
When the girls left, a sense of ease came over me, but I wasn't happy about it. I haven't felt that self-conscious in a while. Come to think of it, I've not been feeling confident lately. I hate feeling like a shell of man, especially after knowing what it's like to feel powerful.
I have devoted 12 hours a day to this program so far, and that's how I intend to complete it. I expect to see strong, persistent results by the end of it, especially because it's my 2nd consecutive run. I do not want to be disappointed.
First run of AM6 helped me realize that low confidence is the root of all my problems. I will do ASC eventually, and I may spend a long time with it.
Directly or indirectly, almost all of the bullet points of AM6 are tied to confidence. So the question becomes, do you use a multi-stage program to attack the many branches of confidence, or do you devote laser-like focus i.e single stage to confidence itself, and then, in theory, watch those results branch out?
RE: Essy Mans The ***k Up [AM6] - I (p.1-5), II (p.5--) - CatMan - 10-24-2015
(10-17-2015, 05:57 PM)essy Wrote: It makes sense to me that running AM6 three times in a row (if I feel the need for a third run) would be distinctly beneficial, because my mind would be devoted to the program for up to 1.5 years with only the necessary 1-4 week break between runs.
Does a multi-stage sub run deeper if it is repeated consecutively for as long as it takes to become entrenched? Or is it just as effective if repeated intermittently, as long as one puts in the same hours, over a period of time?
Would running another sub between runs of AM6 water down the potency of AM6? Or perhaps the potency of both?
Hi Essy,
Personally, I think it's important to run a sub as much as possible consecutively if you need to gain it's bulletpoints. I believe that if you have gaps in between runs, and you're already struggling to gain it's bulletpoints, that will just make it harder to gain mastery of the sub because you will have a lot of time to lapse in between and allow the old programming to regain a foothold. It's one of the reasons I listened for such an EXTREME amount of hours, I wanted to blunt force eradicate as much of the old garbage as possible in one fell swoop. To allow the new programming to imprint and begin self-generating as much as possible with as little conflict from the old as possible. I believe that was the biggest reason for my success on AM6.
It's probably best to concentrate on one sub until you feel you've gained it's content strong enough to move on, even temporarily. I'm reminded of Shannon saying he's known guys to use AM once and have it with them long term, others needed several runs to imprint it. We're all different, and the "right" answer is more to do with your individual progress with imprinting the sub. Now, those were older versions of the program, but the meaning of it is important to this I feel.
There's zero shame in running AM6 a few times. I think it probably has everything a man needs in one package to be honest.
I noticed you asked this awhile ago, and I saw your post still wanting thoughts on this. So I hope this helps!
RE: Essy Mans The ***k Up [AM6] - I (p.1-5), II (p.5--) - Natious - 10-25-2015
I have noticed that expecting too high results from a program adds more resistance than you'd normally experience. And not wanting to be disappointed will usually lead to being disappointed. It's just how the brain works.
Personally I don't like the idea of running am many times in a row. Just sounds boring. Instead I want to run OF for 6+ months followed by asc or ltu for 6+ months, then maybe give am another shot. All of these programs should add to the effectiveness of the following am run. Especially since I, just like you, don't have a particularly strong foundation for am which makes focusing on a single important area a much easier thought to grasp for me.
In conclusion running ASC for a 6+ month period before your 3rd run is also a great choice, especially if you still feel like you need confidence the most after having finished this run. Both ways should work in the end, just make a choice that you feel is best for your current development. :-) ASC is a powerful program and gave me rather noticeable results with only 32days when I first joined this forum.
RE: Essy Mans The ***k Up [AM6] - I (p.1-5), II (p.5--) - Dubls - 10-25-2015
@CatMan
To your point, there is something to be said about repeating a sub until it's internalized, especially one as fundamental as AM6. I think I would also be the first to journal 3 consecutive runs, and that's an exciting prospect. At the same time (and to Natious' point) I do have some resistance at the idea of running the program for another 6 month cycle once this one is complete. No shame however.
@Natious
You're right about how the brain works.
I'd be interested in reading your journal as you run through that list of programs. Observe how you think they interact with one another.
Has me thinking about synergy. Theoretically, running ASC for x number of months to boost confidence might make it easier to internalize the changes that AM6 proposes—through the mitigation of fear and self-doubt. It would also theoretically amplify those aspects of AM6's script that address confidence.
You might be onto something. I have read other journals were longer programs like AM6 where prefaced with EPHRA or OF in order to increase overall effectiveness. I wonder however if running a single stage program like ASC would have been more effective before my first run of AM6 vs what will be my third.
AM6.II - Stage 4, Day 23 - Dubls - 10-30-2015
Feeling confident today. Started this morning and got more intense throughout the day. It's peaking now. I want this to be my 90-percent-of-the-time state.
Feeling this way permeates every aspect of my being. I'm telling myself all kinds of great things in my head, like how entitled I am to sex with attractive women and how lucky they are to fuck me even once.
AM6.II - Stage 4, Day 26 - Dubls - 11-02-2015
Woke up feeling under the weather. I noticed too that the fire I've felt inside of myself lately was absent. Got to the gym later than planned and while my strength was there, my head just wasn't in the game. The confidence wasn't there. I had no frame, no presence.
There's a lot of testosterone at the gym. I like to use the gym as a barometer of my own self-perception in relation to the hormones, egos, and eye candy. Today I just felt like an empty mass there. Low confidence, low masculinity; reactionary. And it sucked. When I feel like that, I tend to invite negative self-talk which makes me feel worse.
I wrote some insightful stuff on my phone in between sets. Sometimes I have insights while working out that I don't get otherwise.
Got through the workout and made my way home. Feel a little better now that I've fleshed out the stuff I noted at the gym. It has to do with reframing my perception of the past.
I've been keeping a journal that I started to elaborate upon my understanding of important 'game' concepts I've extracted from the books I'm reading. I have to say that The Rational Male and TRM: Preventative Medicine are excellent, super-important books that should be read and re-read by men of all ages. Chateau Heartiste also writes good stuff on male-female dynamics, but his blog is interspersed with political rantings that I find to be mostly harsh and repulsive.
Anyway, this journal of mine has grown to be my personal psychologist. I've been using it to articulate counter-arguments to the negative self-talk that I recognize myself as having. Compared to internal dialogue, the written word is harder to ignore and less susceptible to whim or distraction. In short, it's outside of me and in front of me.
My goal—which is based upon the premise that my negative self-talk is quantifiable—is to create an index of ammunition that I can refer to at any time.
[I feel even better having put that concept into words.]
As well, I've learned that in order to provoke real change in myself, I need to write things out, in my own words, as I understand them. Hearing from somebody else is, at best, a good way to get the ball rolling.
AM6.II - Stage 4, Day 27 - Dubls - 11-04-2015
Confidence today.
AM6.II - Stage 4, Day 30 - Dubls - 11-06-2015
I've been back to the gym 3 times now and I can feel my strength and flexibility returning. Exercising regularly makes you feel alive in a way that you just don't otherwise. Not working out for 6 weeks after my surgery made me feel like less of a human being. Diet and exercise really does colour life for the better. #endrant
I declined an invitation to go out tonight because doing so would have left me with 4 x 1.5 hours of listening to make up for.
I remain committed to putting in 12 hours a day during my second run of AM6, but I'm starting to have a problem with what that commitment entails. 8 hours of US while I sleep? Easy. 4 hours of masked during the day? Not so much. I have to plan for 4 waking hours of listening each day. That means I'm home for at least 4 hours each day. Often I'm planning around my work schedule, and 2-3 days a week, around my gym schedule. I really don't do much besides work, gym, and subs.
One of the things I want to change about my life is to go out and socialize more. I would say it's one of the biggest things I need to work on in terms of my self-development. I used to be a home body because of low self-esteem. I'm not supremely confident yet, and I still have personal inhibitions (which I will go into detail about in a future post) but I'm feeling caged under this roof.
In short, my life revolves around subs, and has for the better part of a year. As cool as it would have been to run AM6 three times consecutively, I cannot happily run another 6 stage sub at 12 hours a day after this run. I need a break—not from all subs, just from 6 stage programs.
Catman made a great comparison between 6 stage programs and single stage programs in terms of listening time and effectiveness. 6 stage programs contain so much information overall and per stage, that a high number of listening hours is required, especially because you only have 32 days to assimilate each stage. Often, a second run of the whole program is required.
Single stage programs on the other hand are less dense and more direct. You should listen for a minimum of 90 days, but you can run these programs indefinitely. Obviously, 12 hours a day will produce results faster, but it's not necessary. You're dealing with one script—one message, so to speak. Listening to a single stage for 6 months at 8 hours a day is going to yield results. You have all that time to assimilate the message.
So in the interest of my sanity and self-development, I am going to run a single stage program after this run of AM6. The top contenders right now are ASC (of which 6G might be a thing when I'm ready) and OPE.
Your thoughts are welcome.
RE: Essy Mans The ***k Up [AM6] - I (p.1-5), II (p.5--) - 4Kingdoms - 11-06-2015
(11-06-2015, 09:16 PM)essy Wrote: I've been back to the gym 3 times now and I can feel my strength and flexibility returning. Exercising regularly makes you feel alive in a way that you just don't otherwise. Not working out for 6 weeks after my surgery made me feel like less of a human being. Diet and exercise really does colour life for the better. #endrant
I declined an invitation to go out tonight because doing so would have left me with 4 x 1.5 hours of listening to make up for.
I remain committed to putting in 12 hours a day during my second run of AM6, but I'm starting to have a problem with what that commitment entails. 8 hours of US while I sleep? Easy. 4 hours of masked during the day? Not so much. I have to plan for 4 waking hours of listening each day. That means I'm home for at least 4 hours each day. Often I'm planning around my work schedule, and 2-3 days a week, around my gym schedule. I really don't do much besides work, gym, and subs.
One of the things I want to change about my life is to go out and socialize more. I would say it's one of the biggest things I need to work on in terms of my self-development. I used to be a home body because of low self-esteem. I'm not supremely confident yet, and I still have personal inhibitions (which I will go into detail about in a future post) but I'm feeling caged under this roof.
In short, my life revolves around subs, and has for the better part of a year. As cool as it would have been to run AM6 three times consecutively, I cannot happily run another 6 stage sub at 12 hours a day after this run. I need a break—not from all subs, just from 6 stage programs.
Catman made a great comparison between 6 stage programs and single stage programs in terms of listening time and effectiveness. 6 stage programs contain so much information overall and per stage, that a high number of listening hours is required, especially because you only have 32 days to assimilate each stage. Often, a second run of the whole program is required.
Single stage programs on the other hand are less dense and more direct. You should listen for a minimum of 90 days, but you can run these programs indefinitely. Obviously, 12 hours a day will produce results faster, but it's not necessary. You're dealing with one script—one message, so to speak. Listening to a single stage for 6 months at 8 hours a day is going to yield results. You have all that time to assimilate the message.
So in the interest of my sanity and self-development, I am going to run a single stage program after this run of AM6. The top contenders right now are ASC (of which 6G might be a thing when I'm ready) and OPE.
Your thoughts are welcome.
I'm only jumping in here because you wrote our thoughts are welcome. You had surgery and you had to heal, yeah it sucked. Exercise releases endorphins and you miss that feeling. You've healed and you are back to exercising, your life is getting back to normal, not quite.. but you're getting there!
You declined an invitation because you MANNED UP and decided to stick to your commitment of listening to the subs! You should be proud of yourself, it takes a lot of willpower to do that!!! You obviously have willpower, stop beating yourself up...
When you are done running AM6 this time, it will be the second time!! Great, that's twice... take a break. Relax, let it assimilate and process in your mind. While you are taking a break from the 6 stage subs, go socialize. Remember who you declined the invitation to go out with and tell them you'd like to make it up.
Because you don't feel supremely confident, run ASC.
OPE, I had to look that up... even if this is a real issue for you, you still stay firm after it happens long enough to change condoms or clean yourself up and continue where you left off. You don't lose your erection right away.
AM6.II - Stage 5, Day 12 - Dubls - 11-21-2015
I've been following all the talk about OF 5G, and maybe that's what I need. I was so sure about running ASC 5G (or 6G?) when this run of AM6 ends in January. The first time around, AM6 helped me realize that low confidence is literally the root of all my problems. The flashes of confidence that AM6 has given me are equivalent to seeing in color, and realizing by comparison that you've been living black and white. It also makes black and white more difficult to be in. After 1 5/6 runs of AM6, I would equate my resting confidence level to muted colors, and of course the goal is to turn up the vibrancy.
So why OF?
I struggle with premature ejaculation. It has to do in part with conditioning. Years of speed-jacking to porn will do that. It has to do with confidence; it is very much connected to a deep-seated belief that I am not worthy of sexual pleasure with attractive women. And resulting from these things, it has to do with fear. I'm afraid of coming too soon, and it's to a point where the fear and expectation of the problem results in the problem. It's difficult to draw a line that separates premature ejaculation itself from the fear and expectation that it will happen. And therein lies the conundrum.
The tricky part about subs is determining which of tackling an issue directly, indirectly, broadly, or with laser-like focus will result in the most effective outcome. Will destroying the fear (OF) surrounding premature ejaculation cripple the legs that this problem stands on? And how does that compare to bolstering confidence (ASC) to such an extent that, as it snowballs and become self-reinforcing, it pushes fear into irrelevancy? And how do both of those compare to OPE which aims to tackle the issue of premature ejaculation directly and explicitly?
A similar but separate question (that deserves a separate answer) would be to ask on broad terms: Does pruning fear allow for the outgrowth of confidence, or does the outgrowth of confidence stunt fear?
And it wouldn't be a proper noodle cooker if I didn't include the insight that: My fears result from a lack of confidence, which results from being overweight in childhood and adolescence.
Let it be said that as determined as I am to conquer PE this year, I'm very much interested in the effects that ASC and/or OF will have on every aspect of my psychology.
These are the mental laps I've been running.
RE: Essy Mans The ***k Up [AM6] - I (p.1-5), II (p.5--) - Dubls - 11-27-2015
I hoped that my last entry would provoke discussion. Surely it has occurred to others that there are different, often overlapping components to the areas they seek to improve/overcome with subs. The question them becomes what subs do you use i.e from what angle do you attack the problem, and in what order?
I would like your insight on the questions that I posed in post #128 above.
Maybe we can expand this into a thread which proposes 'sub cocktails' for tackling various issues; including preparatory listening for multi-stage programs.
RE: Essy Mans The ***k Up [AM6] - I (p.1-5), II (p.5--) - apollolux - 11-27-2015
Shannon has recently written about a "spider web" theory (I don't have an immediate link to the post handy); various mental processes regarding a particular mindset or related set of beliefs are connected like a web and even if one or two nodes are cut the web itself still stands and can easily be rebuilt, so to take down the web permanently all the nodes must be cut relatively simultaneously.
My theory is a belief like lacking confidence, for example, is a higher level one and consists of multiple lower level components like fear (whether fear in general or specific fears like fear of inadequacy and fear of judgment). If the script is any indication, a sub like ASC deals with the higher level concept of confidence without directly acknowledging what the underlying components may or may not be. On the other hand, OF's script seems to indeed explicitly acknowledge higher level concepts affected by fear like bravery and self-reliance.
tl;dr - ASC seems broad if someone is unaware of one or more components of confidence, OF seems laser-like AND makes one aware of potential higher level improvements.
Anything further that doesn't exist in the script library might require Shannon letting us know what specific beliefs can be affected by scripts like AM and the magnets.
RE: Essy Mans The ***k Up [AM6] - I (p.1-5), II (p.5--) - Dubls - 11-30-2015
(11-27-2015, 09:59 PM)apollolux Wrote: Shannon has recently written about a "spider web" theory (I don't have an immediate link to the post handy); various mental processes regarding a particular mindset or related set of beliefs are connected like a web and even if one or two nodes are cut the web itself still stands and can easily be rebuilt, so to take down the web permanently all the nodes must be cut relatively simultaneously.
My theory is a belief like lacking confidence, for example, is a higher level one and consists of multiple lower level components like fear (whether fear in general or specific fears like fear of inadequacy and fear of judgment). If the script is any indication, a sub like ASC deals with the higher level concept of confidence without directly acknowledging what the underlying components may or may not be. On the other hand, OF's script seems to indeed explicitly acknowledge higher level concepts affected by fear like bravery and self-reliance.
tl;dr - ASC seems broad if someone is unaware of one or more components of confidence, OF seems laser-like AND makes one aware of potential higher level improvements.
Anything further that doesn't exist in the script library might require Shannon letting us know what specific beliefs can be affected by scripts like AM and the magnets.
Fear and low confidence are certainly nodes which comprise my web. Shame is another but AM6 has done a pretty good job of destroying it. I plan to run both OF 5G and ASC 5G (or 6G?). You've made a case for running OF first: kill the fear and then install confidence.
***I wrote a paragraph about what doing the opposite might look like (ASC > OF) and then I deleted it because I realized that in some situations i.e. with women, I'm actually afraid of being confident; because of my fears about PE and being judged. Then again those fears comes from a lack of confidence...
This chicken and egg shit is giving me a headache.
~
There has been an ongoing debate about the nature of OF in that it is designed to assist the user in overcoming ALL fear. The sales description warns that OF may remove fears that help keep you safe. Shannon asserts that we don't need any fear because we can apply logic to situations where fear once correctly dictated action or lack thereof. Some people on the forum, including myself, find this unsettling. If I don't accept that which OF is premised upon, then I am sure to incur resistance on top of that which arises from overcoming fears.
Edit: Dec 1, 2015
Shannon just posted this and I feel better and willing to run OF.