(07-01-2024, 07:39 AM)Shannon Wrote:

(07-01-2024, 07:18 AM)AbundanceCH Wrote: You mentioned how some of the stuff is already in AM.  Just like LTU has several programs already in it I don't see why not AM can't have this develop your masculinity title already in it when the time comes to develop AM.  Just like you can have Money Magnet and then have UMS being a more complete money mastery program you can have both AM and this new title.

I think the distinction can be made between both.  An alpha male has all the qualities of a masculine man but a masculine man is not necessarily the alpha male of his group.  Maybe some guys just want to undo all the feminization they have gone through since childhood before they step into AM to become a top male.  Maybe some don't want to become an alpha male and just want to be more masculine.

As far as what's appropriate...I think Benjamin can also chime in on this as I have noted over the years how he does understand and is tuned in to the issues of masculinity and the feminization of men.  I've posted about this stuff in the forums for a while myself and have been studying this stuff for years (since i have suffered through and still working on fixing my masculinity).

Some of the basic goals from my studying this issue are what I listed.  I would say most guys suffer from this now a days due to feminization.

I'm aware of what needs to go in, but the issue I face is two things specifically:
1. Where do we draw the line between what goes into AM only and what goes into Develop Your Masculinity, and
2. No matter what I put in, someone will complain that XYZ should have gone in, or should not have.

(07-01-2024, 11:48 AM)ReconGunner Wrote: One example: I believe that TOFM would be a necessary inclusion, because I believe that testosterone is foundational for healthy masculinity. @Shannon might choose otherwise based on his better information, expertise developing these experiences, etc.

(06-30-2024, 05:36 PM)AbundanceCH Wrote: Here’s an idea for a sub which would help a lot if not most of the guys in the forum. I think it would be a great seller.  I want to know what Shannon and everyone else thinks of this.

“Develop your masculinity”

As you already know a lot if not most of the issues of the guys in this forum (and outside too in the world) are in large part due to a lack of strong masculinity.  Whether it be due to anti male societal programming, lack of a strong male role model growing up, being raised my single mothers etc etc…guys are struggling right now.

This sub would help you become the most masculine version of yourself.  It would also help heal trauma related to masculinity (for those that have been emasculated by their mother, abuse (sexual or non sexual), bullying etc).

I think this might be an easy sub to make as Shannon could take some of the scripting of existing subs that relates to masculinity (some of the goals in the self steam sub could be used for example as they relate to masculinity).

And of course: goals about focus, determination, setting boundaries, defending yourself from attacks, competitiveness, confidence, self reliance, fearlessness, courage. Goals about some of the stuff most guys just lack now a days in terms of masculine traits which is leading to their struggle.

Just like you have money magnet and UMS you can have this sub and alpha male.

Alpha male is to make you a top male. This sub is to make you the most masculine version of yourself.  You could probably include this sub in alpha male since it’s a multi stager but this would be a good option for those that don’t want a multi stager and just want to be more masculine and not necessarily a top male/alpha male.

Quote:The difficult part - one of them, I should say - comes in trying to define the goals.  Where does one thing begin and another end within the "masculine"?  Is it appropriate to add this or leave that out?  And of course, no matter what I do, someone is going to be upset or complain because XYZ did or didn't happen.

Quote:As far as what's appropriate...I think Benjamin can also chime in on this as I have noted over the years how he does understand and is tuned in to the issues of masculinity and the feminization of men.  I've posted about this stuff in the forums for a while myself and have been studying this stuff for years (since i have suffered through and still working on fixing my masculinity).

(07-01-2024, 05:25 PM)Benjamin Wrote:

(06-30-2024, 05:36 PM)AbundanceCH Wrote: Here’s an idea for a sub which would help a lot if not most of the guys in the forum. I think it would be a great seller.  I want to know what Shannon and everyone else thinks of this.

“Develop your masculinity”

As you already know a lot if not most of the issues of the guys in this forum (and outside too in the world) are in large part due to a lack of strong masculinity.  Whether it be due to anti male societal programming, lack of a strong male role model growing up, being raised my single mothers etc etc…guys are struggling right now.

This sub would help you become the most masculine version of yourself.  It would also help heal trauma related to masculinity (for those that have been emasculated by their mother, abuse (sexual or non sexual), bullying etc).

I think this might be an easy sub to make as Shannon could take some of the scripting of existing subs that relates to masculinity (some of the goals in the self steam sub could be used for example as they relate to masculinity).

And of course: goals about focus, determination, setting boundaries, defending yourself from attacks, competitiveness, confidence, self reliance, fearlessness, courage. Goals about some of the stuff most guys just lack now a days in terms of masculine traits which is leading to their struggle.

Just like you have money magnet and UMS you can have this sub and alpha male.

Alpha male is to make you a top male. This sub is to make you the most masculine version of yourself.  You could probably include this sub in alpha male since it’s a multi stager but this would be a good option for those that don’t want a multi stager and just want to be more masculine and not necessarily a top male/alpha male.

Definately agree this would be a good title. Though I don't know how it would differ from AM. I posted an idea similar ages ago and thought of it kind of like a "Masculine Healing" subliminal that does some of the things Shannon mentioned in his reply to this (undoing the crap) and thought it could possibly be a way to help prepare for AM.

But then as I thought more and more and added more goals to it, it could just become AM.

Quote:The difficult part - one of them, I should say - comes in trying to define the goals.  Where does one thing begin and another end within the "masculine"?  Is it appropriate to add this or leave that out?  And of course, no matter what I do, someone is going to be upset or complain because XYZ did or didn't happen.

That's a good point. One problem is that some people think they want all of what society and brainwashing is telling us that we should be to be a man, almost all of which is weakening us.. plus i've seen a huge, huge amount of so called 'masculinity coaches' spouting weak bs, especially the ones that talk about 'conscious relationships' 'conscious masculinity' and such.

I know you aren't on board with all that stuff, but I guess it is difficult to please the people who are looking for 'masculinity' from what they have been taught by societies bs. Personally I prefer all the traditional traits that are considered masculinity and actually are masculinity despite what we're told, as opposed to the new age crap.

Quote:As far as what's appropriate...I think Benjamin can also chime in on this as I have noted over the years how he does understand and is tuned in to the issues of masculinity and the feminization of men.  I've posted about this stuff in the forums for a while myself and have been studying this stuff for years (since i have suffered through and still working on fixing my masculinity).

Hahah funny, I wrote my response before reading this. I'm definately happy to give more input and discuss it more, but those are my initial thoughts. The thing is yes i'm very aware of all of this, can see it.. but that doesn't necessarily mean I have the solution to it all even though i've been looking for it for a long time. I do understand alot of the issues well though and what we are facing, seemingly in ways that alot of people are either blind to or ignore. (By that I don't think it applies to you guys here, but alot of people I come across in general or on social media).

Healing the feminization, healing this big tendency we've all grown up with which I can only imagine how bad it is growing up now that women hold the key to our acceptance, we have to do everything they want us to so we are approved of, 'subconscious obedience' to women and society.. I write it that way because consciously I know that I don't want to be obedient to it, but at a deeper level my responses do alot of the time reflect that. Healing the blockages to being deeply connected with our masculinity.

Some of my ideas may also be more 'full on' (that's the best word I can think of, though I don't think my ideas are too full on) than others, like some guys want to be the guy who is the good citizen, does what he is told, fits into society and all societies ideas and think that is what a man should be, wheras 'society' and conventional wisdom has never ever had my best interests at heart and especially doesn't these days in almost all areas, so I do not want this 'subconscious obedience' to society, and so called 'authority' either. I could go further into that, but it'd most likely breach some of the forum rules. I think i've said it in a way that it doesn't.

Of course the above would be done in a constructive, positive way first by embodying the man you want to be, embodying strong masculinity and being a beacon and inspiration for other men to be that, and from there push back against all the bs thrown at men by society. As opposed to destructive like Fight Club for example.

I know some people disagree but for me it would definately include becoming the best physical version of yourself, doesn't mean a bodybuilder but in good physical shape, functional, feeling good in your body, naturally high testosterone.

Anyway, gotta go do some other stuff but it might stimulate some discussion to start.

(07-01-2024, 11:48 AM)ReconGunner Wrote:

(07-01-2024, 07:39 AM)Shannon Wrote: I'm aware of what needs to go in, but the issue I face is two things specifically:
1. Where do we draw the line between what goes into AM only and what goes into Develop Your Masculinity, and
2. No matter what I put in, someone will complain that XYZ should have gone in, or should not have.

One example: I believe that TOFM would be a necessary inclusion, because I believe that testosterone is foundational for healthy masculinity. @Shannon might choose otherwise based on his better information, expertise developing these experiences, etc.

1. Inducing an increased level of testosterone in a sub to develop masculinity only skews the effects the program has artificially and
   
2. The effect will only last as long as you tun the program.
   

(07-01-2024, 01:12 PM)StridingStrider Wrote: @Shannon What is your plan with OF now that you're focusing on EPRHA, OGSF and SD as the main healing subs?

Perhaps it could take on more of the "special cases" niche?

(07-01-2024, 02:14 PM)AbundanceCH Wrote:

(07-01-2024, 11:48 AM)ReconGunner Wrote: One example: I believe that TOFM would be a necessary inclusion, because I believe that testosterone is foundational for healthy masculinity. @Shannon might choose otherwise based on his better information, expertise developing these experiences, etc.

Testosterone optimizer could be included in Alpha Male and would be a luxury feature that we would pay extra for in getting AM.  My idea was focusing more on the inner foundation for the masculinity sub.  But maybe Shannon could include something about testosterone in it as it's obviously a huge issue.  Testosterone levels have reached all time lows recently.

(07-01-2024, 05:25 PM)Benjamin Wrote:

(06-30-2024, 05:36 PM)AbundanceCH Wrote: Here’s an idea for a sub which would help a lot if not most of the guys in the forum. I think it would be a great seller.  I want to know what Shannon and everyone else thinks of this.







“Develop your masculinity”







As you already know a lot if not most of the issues of the guys in this forum (and outside too in the world) are in large part due to a lack of strong masculinity.  Whether it be due to anti male societal programming, lack of a strong male role model growing up, being raised my single mothers etc etc…guys are struggling right now.







This sub would help you become the most masculine version of yourself.  It would also help heal trauma related to masculinity (for those that have been emasculated by their mother, abuse (sexual or non sexual), bullying etc).







I think this might be an easy sub to make as Shannon could take some of the scripting of existing subs that relates to masculinity (some of the goals in the self steam sub could be used for example as they relate to masculinity).







And of course: goals about focus, determination, setting boundaries, defending yourself from attacks, competitiveness, confidence, self reliance, fearlessness, courage. Goals about some of the stuff most guys just lack now a days in terms of masculine traits which is leading to their struggle.







Just like you have money magnet and UMS you can have this sub and alpha male.







Alpha male is to make you a top male. This sub is to make you the most masculine version of yourself.  You could probably include this sub in alpha male since it’s a multi stager but this would be a good option for those that don’t want a multi stager and just want to be more masculine and not necessarily a top male/alpha male.

Definately agree this would be a good title. Though I don't know how it would differ from AM. I posted an idea similar ages ago and thought of it kind of like a "Masculine Healing" subliminal that does some of the things Shannon mentioned in his reply to this (undoing the crap) and thought it could possibly be a way to help prepare for AM.







But then as I thought more and more and added more goals to it, it could just become AM.

Quote:The difficult part - one of them, I should say - comes in trying to define the goals.  Where does one thing begin and another end within the "masculine"?  Is it appropriate to add this or leave that out?  And of course, no matter what I do, someone is going to be upset or complain because XYZ did or didn't happen.

That's a good point. One problem is that some people think they want all of what society and brainwashing is telling us that we should be to be a man, almost all of which is weakening us.. plus i've seen a huge, huge amount of so called 'masculinity coaches' spouting weak bs, especially the ones that talk about 'conscious relationships' 'conscious masculinity' and such.







I know you aren't on board with all that stuff, but I guess it is difficult to please the people who are looking for 'masculinity' from what they have been taught by societies bs. Personally I prefer all the traditional traits that are considered masculinity and actually are masculinity despite what we're told, as opposed to the new age crap.

Quote:As far as what's appropriate...I think Benjamin can also chime in on this as I have noted over the years how he does understand and is tuned in to the issues of masculinity and the feminization of men.  I've posted about this stuff in the forums for a while myself and have been studying this stuff for years (since i have suffered through and still working on fixing my masculinity).

Hahah funny, I wrote my response before reading this. I'm definately happy to give more input and discuss it more, but those are my initial thoughts. The thing is yes i'm very aware of all of this, can see it.. but that doesn't necessarily mean I have the solution to it all even though i've been looking for it for a long time. I do understand alot of the issues well though and what we are facing, seemingly in ways that alot of people are either blind to or ignore. (By that I don't think it applies to you guys here, but alot of people I come across in general or on social media).







Healing the feminization, healing this big tendency we've all grown up with which I can only imagine how bad it is growing up now that women hold the key to our acceptance, we have to do everything they want us to so we are approved of, 'subconscious obedience' to women and society.. I write it that way because consciously I know that I don't want to be obedient to it, but at a deeper level my responses do alot of the time reflect that. Healing the blockages to being deeply connected with our masculinity.







Some of my ideas may also be more 'full on' (that's the best word I can think of, though I don't think my ideas are too full on) than others, like some guys want to be the guy who is the good citizen, does what he is told, fits into society and all societies ideas and think that is what a man should be, wheras 'society' and conventional wisdom has never ever had my best interests at heart and especially doesn't these days in almost all areas, so I do not want this 'subconscious obedience' to society, and so called 'authority' either. I could go further into that, but it'd most likely breach some of the forum rules. I think i've said it in a way that it doesn't.







Of course the above would be done in a constructive, positive way first by embodying the man you want to be, embodying strong masculinity and being a beacon and inspiration for other men to be that, and from there push back against all the bs thrown at men by society. As opposed to destructive like Fight Club for example.







I know some people disagree but for me it would definately include becoming the best physical version of yourself, doesn't mean a bodybuilder but in good physical shape, functional, feeling good in your body, naturally high testosterone.







Anyway, gotta go do some other stuff but it might stimulate some discussion to start.

Shannon Wrote:As it turns out, both UMS v3 Stage 4 and DMSI v5 have too much Key Script to be possible for me to build in 5.11G, and therefore they must wait for 6G regardless of what I would like to do.

(07-02-2024, 01:56 PM)4Kingdoms Wrote: https://subliminal-talk.com/Thread-Shannon-s-Journal-Volume-3?pid=264568#pid264568

Shannon Wrote:As it turns out, both UMS v3 Stage 4 and DMSI v5 have too much Key Script to be possible for me to build in 5.11G, and therefore they must wait for 6G regardless of what I would like to do.

(07-01-2024, 05:25 PM)Benjamin Wrote: That's a good point. One problem is that some people think they want all of what society and brainwashing is telling us that we should be to be a man, almost all of which is weakening us.. plus i've seen a huge, huge amount of so called 'masculinity coaches' spouting weak bs, especially the ones that talk about 'conscious relationships' 'conscious masculinity' and such.

I know you aren't on board with all that stuff, but I guess it is difficult to please the people who are looking for 'masculinity' from what they have been taught by societies bs. Personally I prefer all the traditional traits that are considered masculinity and actually are masculinity despite what we're told, as opposed to the new age crap.