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+--- Forum: Men's Journals (https://subliminal-talk.com/Forum-Men-s-Journals)
+--- Thread: AM6 (/Thread-AM6--5522)
RE: AM6 - eternity - 06-14-2015
don't get me wrong, i know it sounded contradictory but I didn't mean for it to sound like i was saying not to journal. By all means, you SHOULD keep a journal, but what I was referencing was to release the expectation of what the sub was going to do for you... which is a lot easier said than done, and a lot easier to understand once you've been using the sub for a decent amount of time.
And I also read somewhere that the most objective way to identify results is to hear it from other people.
Hope that made some sort of sense
RE: AM6 - Andarras - 06-19-2015
Been a bit silent on the forums for a while. In 45 minutes I switch over to Phase 2. Hours per day on average is 17.5. My average dropped because I'm taking on new things in my life. I am planning to get out more. Sunday afternoons involves Feldenkrais class so that chews up about 3 or 4 hours including travel. awesome though, I discovered that my winged scapula causes my right shoulder to lift off the ground slightly more so the teacher told me she would adapt some stuff in the next class to help with that.
I haven't done my posture feldenkrais exercise for probably a week. Posture is still going strong although I think my body has reverted slightly which is understandable as the muscles were beginning to weaken.
Going to apply for a team leader/management position next week. I haven't even really been a team leader but I have confidence that I can learn and it's only for six months. I've started practicing really simple muscle testing and I tested quite strongly for my belief that I can do the job.
Getting into some basic Kundalini type stuff - spinal rolls, hip circling, that sort of thing. Want to get into more of it though. Noticing increased sensation through my pelvis and genitals. This morning something made me turn around on the bus and I locked eyes with this cute asian girl. We smiled and I literally felt a jolt. It was cool!
I'm about 40 days into no fap and I"m wondering if that's why I'm now starting to sense more of my genital, but am noticing the spinal rolls and stuff are definitely what are causing the sensations.
It was really strange though and a big let down. I attended a speed dating event last night. Before hand I was feeling nervous for some reason. I muscle tested and it seems I was more excited than nervous. I felt really confident. Met some great girls, had some great interactions. Two girls actualy wrote down some of the practices I do because they were interested in learning them. Only one or two conversations out of 18 felt awkward. Most of the time the girls started the conversations, leaned forward, engaged, smiling etc. I got one friend match, no date match. I ticked I think fifteen girls between date and friend so was pretty disappointed with that. I was seriously expecting at least 3 matches.
I haven't been to a speed dating event in a couple of years. I always get at least 3 friend matches, usually no date matches so this was quite surprising to only get one friend match. From memory I think the last time I went I was always the one asking the question so it was like they were engaging me first this time.
A lot of the girls couldn't stop talking, they were very energetic, passionate etc. So yeah, very confused as to the massive lack of date, or even just friend options. The only thing I wonder is I have this belief that if the conversation flows and the girls don't learn something about me they will not be interested. Like when we flow really well I'll try and slot a quick question at the end to 'learn' something. I think I need to let that go, because in reality a girl would probably love the idea of just letting go and talking, which is what happened with quite a few of the girls.
That makes me question the subs, but not in a bad way. Could it be that Phase 1 is rough? As in the effect gets refined with further stages? Maybe that's why girls on the dancefloor seem more interested than other girls because they've had a few drinks, they're dancing, so they're much more in their feminine kind of thing. Although I don't think I come across as intense.
Went out for drinks with some people early in the week.
Oh yeah, I was definitely popular with the guys at the speed dating. The alphaness is definitely noticeable to men, and to me haha. The guy I was chatting with while we waited went for a drink so I joined a group of guys and then throughout the breaks they'd come up to me and chat. At one point I noticed what I did. One of hte guys was sitting on a cushion thing in the middle so I was like 'hey mate shift over a bit?'. The non-alpha would have actually asked.
I noticed something cool as well. A few times when I went to the toilet a girl would be walking towards the door so I'd hold it open and motion for her to walk through. The old me would have had an 'agenda', something along the lines of impressing the girl. Whereas these times I just felt completely solid, I wasn't reaching out energetically for an expectation. She'd thank me and I didn't say a word. Just a slight smile as I walked through.
I do feel quite strong in character and I'm wondering if that's intimidating for women, especially as I'm noticing definite shift from men which means that something has shifted in me. I'm still blocked by limiting beliefs/emotion or energetic blocks or something which I think is screwing with my head because I'm walking in a powerful confident way thanks to Feldenkrais but not taking action because of beliefs. Normally the two are powerfully connected.
Thoughts?
RE: AM6 - ImFreeman - 06-19-2015
Stage 1 is like nothing compared to stages 3+. I would not think much of this, the real fun with girls comes later.
RE: AM6 - Andarras - 06-19-2015
Hey mate, yeah I'm not expecting anything crazy from Phase 1. Just curious if anyone had similar experiences where women possibly were intimidated...
I had some kind of dream last night but can't put my finger on it. I did think about the interaction with the girl on the bus, the one where I got a shock in my genitals. Turned me on just thinking about it even if in all honesty I didn't think she was that attractive to me. Guess maybe I was experiencing her attraction to me lol.
Looking forward to my Feldenkrais class tomorrow
Today I finalised all my credit card debt. It wasn't too bad, but I had planned to pay it all off over the next 2 years in order to maximise the amount of money I'm saving each week. But I decided screw it and paid the whole lot off, got one card cancelled, tried to follow up a refund request, and ended a service I've been using. Pretty good start to the day I say
RE: AM6 - Andarras - 06-21-2015
Saturday was a pretty good night. Went out for a few drinks. Noticed eye contact from some of the girls in the group. Chatted with one girl for ages that I know, met some other girls, a nice Japanese girl got chatting with me. I was lightly rubbing her back at times, she wasn't responding but also wasn't doing anything to infer that she wasn't liking the touch. I also asked her what her experience of me was. She said I was very confident, easy to talk to, and she said something and pointed at me from head to toe. At the next place, we had no organiser and one lady said the other half of our group wanted someone to lead, so I went over and told them where the rest of us were going and they said they'd come with but needed to finish their drink. I walked out the exit and a bunch of the group followed me, then I realised the rest had gone out the exit that was closer. That was funny, I had a commanding presence so those closest to me just followed me haha.
There was one girl who had my attention. We had a great chat where she was sharing lots of personal information. Then later on I commented that the girl we had followed to the next bar (one of the ladies in our group was meeting up with her) seemed like she wasn't expecting the rest of the group. This girl goes something like 'I don't know, I don't really care either'. That pissed me off so I lost a lot of interest. Later she was dancing in front of me smiling. I started to wonder if she was jealous that I was talking about another girl?
Today I caught up with some friends. One of the girls, I remember the last time I tried to hug her she got really awkard. She literally stood completely still, so I offered her my hand today and she looked at it for a second then kind of frowned and shook my hand. I figured maybe she was in a weird mood the last time so I hugged her goodbye.
Caught up with a girl from one of my seminars. She's really cool, we're into a lot of the same stuff like energy work, personal development, etc and she was attending a class with me afterwards. She'll be a really good long-term friend I think.
I'm not sure how I feel about coincidences but I've been focusing on hip/pelvis stretching and rolling out with a tennis ball to get more openness and movement into my hips. Today's feldenkrais class was all about the hips haha. I had this crazy moment where my hips/pelvis/upper leg area was all quivering and shaking. I was trying to be aware of how my shoulders were moving but couldn't get anything because this quivering was taking over my perception. The teacher said it might have been something along the lines of trauma release which is right up my alley.
RE: AM6 - Benjamin - 06-21-2015
If they seem more 'neutral' to the touch but they aren't moving away from it then it's also a green light. More passive or shy girls can sometimes not give much indication they like it, if they don't like it they will move away or try to stop you otherwise it's fine.
RE: AM6 - Andarras - 06-22-2015
Yeah Benjamin, I'm in agreement. One of the guys was telling me that he would never touch a girl unless she responded because some girls are too shy to do anything. I disagree with that, there are plenty of people for them to talk to as an excuse to get away.
So another coincidence. I mentioned about my quivering hip/pelvis from yesterday. Well last night i had the strangest dream (and I haven't been able to remember my dreams for a really long time now, used to get clear ones first week of phase 1). I went out to get my bike and someone had undone the back wheel but weirdly they'd left all the pieces there so I put it back together and realised the tire was punctured. Then I'm trying to ride up a hill but it was really hard work, harder than it would be normally with a flat tyre. I get home and all the lights are on. I walk in and I'm really on edge, because someone's broken in. I remember creeping from room to room looking for them. Oh, and the house was kind of like my family's home but slightly different as dreams always are. And the family dog was there, but again different.
Today on the bus I turn to get out of my seat and catch eyes with this really cute redhead. She immediately smiles at me. Nice way to start the morning. And my boss seemed more approachable. I've never really connected with him other than simple hello.
RE: AM6 - Andarras - 06-23-2015
Today was interesting. I sat next to this girl on the bus, and I could 'sense' her presence. When I got up I looked across at the same time that this cute redhead woman looked at me and smiled. There's this girl I was assisting with some stuff and I suddenly looked at her differently. She seemed really attractive to me all of a sudden. I've worked with her for ages a while back and never found her attractive. Does this mean she was attracted to me, and I sensed it maybe?
The boss seemed more talkative to me today, even cracked a joke about something. Got on the bus and this asian girl took the seat beside me but it felt/looked like she knew exactly where she was going to sit.
I've started slowly collating all the different practices i do so I can actually start planning them out a bit more.
I found a new brand of microwaveable meals at the local Aldi today. Pretty stoked. I don't cook much but for $3 I get a pretty decent Satay Chicken and Rice with a nice 650 calories. Mix a tablespoon of healthy oil in the sauce and looking at another 100 or so calories.
RE: AM6 - Andarras - 06-24-2015
I found a really cool Qigong practice last night that I can't wait to get into. Went to my Acupuncture session, which was pretty good. Because I got it on one of those daily deals I knew there would be some kind of sales pitch at the end. He was actually pretty good, just said people could get a $10 discount on the next session if they booked there and then. I declined but took his business card.
The reason is I don't know how I feel about acupuncture yet. I noticed some interesting experiences while the needles were in. The third eye point was tight for a while then it relaxed. I could feel something radiating from the two needles in the head. And I think a jolt or something in one leg. What I loved though is part of his process involved getting a reading of my energy field which was something I'd written down to do but never got around to investigating. I went for sexual energy/libido and he was actually really impressed with my energy health. Kidneys were functioning well, but the one problem was the heart area which makes sense as I've been repressed for a long time. But it gave me an interesting shift in awareness. I've always assume my lack of presence/sexual desire was not being in touch with my pelvis and maybe my kidneys weren't doing what they needed. Apparently hte heart and kidneys are connected and while the kidneys were doing their function the heart wasn't in terms of the heart's energy field. Essentially the heart is the magnetic force at least that was my understanding.
He gave me a pretty simple qi-gong type movement to open the heart, and he said he could feel that plus my three energy centres more. Although he's not going to say anything else otherwise that would discount the work he'd done. I've still got a little bit of skepticism
Admittedly, I did feel quite calm and relaxed afterwards. Very out of my head which is good. A couple of girls noticed me on the train but nothing crazy. I did notice when I noticed them that i didn't seem too concerned like I was out of my head more.
I have my qi qong class tomorrow so will chat to the teacher about it, and get his thoughts. He may hopefully have some more guidance around it.
Actually that reminds me. I was sitting at the back of the train in the corner. The seats are two across on the left and right. Most of hte seats were full in front of me. I can comfortably see the left doors between the heads of hte people in front. I look at this girl who gets on the train and she looks straight at me between the people. She didn't look again but she definitely noticed me
RE: AM6 - Andarras - 06-24-2015
And I've been following this guy, well I get his emails. I signed up to his Udemy course which wasn't as fantastic as I was hoping. Anyway, I'm on the train going home from my acupuncture and he has a seminar, unfortunately across the ocean from me, for $20 and the first benefit he lists is the quickest heart-opening exercise (makes you vibrant, approachable, and irresistible), plus how to turn up your masculine energy with simple techniques. I'm going to see if he offers any of this through articles, blogs, products, or heck I'll just email him and ask for some advice. Happy to pay him $20 to tell me the techniques haha.
The other thing is I found another person, the one who offered the interesting Qigong class. He has a blog but it's not updated often, but he actually does Qigong classes in US so I've followed his facebook page to see if I can find some gems, plus he has reviewed lots of products on Amazon, which is great for finding other books and stuff.
RE: AM6 - Andarras - 06-26-2015
It was funny. My Qigong teacher was actually talking about this woman who he goes to for acupuncture and I mentioned my experience. He pointed out that all of the Qigong I do in the class will assist in opening up my heart anyway. Man, this Qigong class was the craziest. We've started training for the microcosmic orbit. I had no idea that it involved training. Apparently it's 100 days to actually open it up.
We started by imagining breathing into our center and buliding a big ball of energy, then breathing into our perineum. He suggested to guide the energy easier to press the spot. Holy sh&t! The energy there was so damn powerful I almost had to stop. We then moved our awareness to our crown and imagined drawing in universe energy, and then bringing it all into the center. At this point I was just about squirming. It was so damn intense.
Another Qigong practice I've started doing is resistance stretching. For example when you push your feet together and wing your legs, instead of pushing your knees towards the ground, you do this but at the same time push upwards with your legs which puts a much stronger stretch on the muscles.
The energy from the Qigong class exercise stayed with me the whole time. I've also decided to start taking Maca powder and Tribulus for libido as I"m pretty sure I have a low libido which certainly doesn't help. It could be my imagination but about 5 minutes after I took the Tribulus I felt desire.
I'm about 15 hours a day on average for the subs. Happy with that as I knew I would have less time now that I'm doing two classes a week plus other stuff.
I want to be careful with the two libido-boosting herbs because if they actually have a strong effect then I may struggle a little with the nofap I'm on at the moment, but that's a good problem to have
I've set myself the goal of utilising this weekend to do a bit of cleaning. Already done the bi-monthly pantry clean. Arranged stuff too so all my supps are in a convenient location.
RE: AM6 - Andarras - 06-27-2015
Well the clean didn't go according to plan. Today was partly wasted from a hangover. Mate came with me for drinks last night and had a couple too many. The night was good, the herb supps are definitely taking effect. I'm much more 'interested' in women in a more physical way. Anyway, we arrived at the venue and noticed the crowd was much older than us. Chatted to this older woman who came up to us for a bit. It was funny, I didn't seem as uncomfortable talking to her as I would normally when I'm talking to someone much older. It was cool. Anyway, a younger guy joined us and then suddenly all the younger ones emerged from the crowd. It was like me and my mate were the alphas and they saw us. When young people arrived they would instantly move over to us. There was this cute girl and her workmate who came over. She took a shine to me, constantly talking to me. But she had one of those grating voices and she was just too energetic. I enjoyed talking to her but after a while I started identifying her personality more and she was definitely not a girl I could see myself in a happy relationship with. I'm trying to identify and release where I do something for a result, to an extent anyway. I was alone at the bar with this particular girl and the thought crossed my mind that this was ideal for getting her number, organising a date. But I genuinely didn't want to so I didn't.
Then later in the night I was in a group with two other guys and I see these 2 girls standing behind the guy opposite. I get their attention and motion for them to come over. I was f*cking proud of that because I had no idea if they were part of the group or not. Turned out they were. I hit it off with one of them, got her facebook. We're into similar things and we had a good vibe. She smiled at me a lot. There's one guy in the group that is kind of a d*ck. My mate said that whenever this girl went to move towards us this other guy would interrupt her. Later on the dancefloor I saw him holding two drinks. She walked past and he presented one to her. I saw her shake her head, then her hand was on the drink but she wasn't taking it, then finally she took the drink and said thanks. It was like he gave her no choice. But throughout the night he was talking in her ear heaps and she wasn't moving away. So I moved on. I don't know if it's a good thing or not. I'm not 'giving up' because I think he's better I just can't be bothered competing directly with someone. At the end I did react though. When I said goodbye to her I shook her hand instead of offering a hug. She definitely gave me an odd look like she was confused that I didn't offer her a hug. We messaged a little bit today but I doubt it will go anywhere.
I chatted to a couple of girls at the bar here and there. I think the herbs and possibly the subs are kicking in with that regard.
I have a couple of questions for you guys:
1. Is the AM sub designed to do things like remove limiting beliefs/fears, replace them, give us a more dominant/assertive personality?
2. Does it install actions/beliefs etc that allow us to be more dominant/assertive? The reason I ask is that I'm not in your face, take what I want. Like when I meet a girl I'm not touchy-feely. It's not that I don' want to be but my 'conditioning' creates this rule that makes me not get into their personal space and be touchy-feely. If a girl moves into my space then I can respond in kind, but that means the girl is leading and ultimately I'm forcing her to take on the 'risk'.
3. I can talk, and hold a conversation, but I'm not big on it. Like when I was on the dancefloor I would say something to the girl if I had something I wanted to say. Is this bad? How do guys have so much to say? The other guy was always saying something to her. What sort of stuff do guys say that allows them to have so much to say? lol
4. Have you guys done any work/processes to identify and transform beliefs? I got a book called End Game. The main concept is to not do something for a desired result. I don't believe you can live your life this way, but we can get to the point where we're non-needy, and not all about the outcome. Like when I shook that girls hand. The way I worded it to my housemate was that there was something about showing her that she blew it. Or is that the kind of thing that later stages of AM are designed to eradicate and replace automatically?
I also have a question about the frequency. I'm probably just overthinking. I have two speakers above my bed, one either side of the pillow, plugged into my phone. When I put the phone up to the speaker with FrequenSee I can see the spike at around 19Kkz which jumps up to between 70 and 80 DB. Is that good? Ideal? I turn the speakers to a set spot and then adjust the volume of the track.
Cheers guys!
RE: AM6 - Breeze - 06-28-2015
(06-27-2015, 11:32 PM)Andarras Wrote: 1. Is the AM sub designed to do things like remove limiting beliefs/fears, replace them, give us a more dominant/assertive personality?
Do you mean limiting beliefs/fears regarding being dominant/assertive? If you do, I believe so, yes. For a short answer, yes, it does give us a more dominant/assertive personality. I never believed I had an inch of a dominant bone in me before Alpha Male. But, am I consciously being dominant/assertive now? No. I don't even think about it, I am just "myself". I can only account of my personal experience, Alpha Male has actually helped me to let go of the struggle and desperation of being a dominant. I'll not say that I am either submissive or dominant in day-to-day life, but if I want things a certain way for myself, it is happening that way. No comprises. On replacing beliefs, I'll replace the word replace with enhance. Again, speaking in the sense of dominance, if I am feeling submissive towards a girl, I am quite okay with it. Imagine two metals melted and merged. Running Alpha Male has melted the dominance and submission together and merged into one for me. If it make sense.
(06-27-2015, 11:32 PM)Andarras Wrote: 2. Does it install actions/beliefs etc that allow us to be more dominant/assertive?
Beliefs are interconnected, like a link of chains. I do not know if there are direct suggestion regarding installing dominant/assertive beliefs, but I am am sure as hell that you are programmed to not to be treated down, disrespected and walked over, in any way or form, from anybody. That might explain the link back to developing a dominant personality, if not directly implied.
(06-27-2015, 11:32 PM)Andarras Wrote: The reason I ask is that I'm not in your face, take what I want. Like when I meet a girl I'm not touchy-feely. It's not that I don' want to be but my 'conditioning' creates this rule that makes me not get into their personal space and be touchy-feely. If a girl moves into my space then I can respond in kind, but that means the girl is leading and ultimately I'm forcing her to take on the 'risk'.
Touch-feely can imply many things, there are guys who open up to a girl emotionally to get her feel attracted to themselves. Being "different" than your average jerk. We all know how it works out in the end. It can also imply just being aware of your emotions, embracing and simply expressing them. The difference is, the first ones serve a girl their heart in a golden plate to be manipulated. Getting into her frame of reality. The second ones, express themselves on their own frame of reality. "Hey girl, I like you, and this is how I feel about you, you up for a ride? Yes? Good! No? Too bad. On to the next stop." The point is: You don't have to enter into her frame even if you are touchy-feely. Lets say, be a detached romantic.
(06-27-2015, 11:32 PM)Andarras Wrote: 3. I can talk, and hold a conversation, but I'm not big on it. Like when I was on the dancefloor I would say something to the girl if I had something I wanted to say. Is this bad? How do guys have so much to say? The other guy was always saying something to her. What sort of stuff do guys say that allows them to have so much to say? lol
I hear you. Usually, I have overheard guys talking extremely silly things, and I am always like, "What the heck? He is behaving like a 5 year old. Better shut his mouth than to try to hold on a conversation." Though that's just my experience, there are brilliant conversationalists out there. I am not a big on holding conversations myself, but when I let go of the worry of what to say next and let my subconscious take over. I find myself having great fun. Let go of the control and see where it goes.
(06-27-2015, 11:32 PM)Andarras Wrote: 4. Have you guys done any work/processes to identify and transform beliefs? I got a book called End Game. The main concept is to not do something for a desired result. I don't believe you can live your life this way, but we can get to the point where we're non-needy, and not all about the outcome.
I write a lot to identify my beliefs, but the trick is, I do not think when I am writing, I let my hand take over. Sometimes I end up drawing strange figures, sometimes positive stuff, sometimes negative, you know. The magic is, when I reach to the point of identifying my belief and if its bugging me, it stops there itself. It vanishes itself. Awareness is transformation.
If you do not do something for a desired result and lose your grip on the desire itself, it takes the goal off the pedestal. Balance your relationship to it.
Hope it helps.
RE: AM6 - Andarras - 06-28-2015
Thanks Diamiteo, I meant limiting beliefs in general. Definitely some around dominance/assertiveness, but especially around women. WM which I'll be doing after AM I think is more designed around letting go of blocks that then make us more attractive to women. But if there are other beliefs we won't necessarily take the correct or self-aligned action. Let's say WM makes it so that when I walk in the room women stare at me and maybe approach me. I would still be operating from scripts that relate to the next step which is the actual engagement. Like even though I'm pouring alpha male subs into my mind I still don't 'go for what I want' such as when a girl joins our group I won't invade her space or touch her. Or when I consciously do it (step out of my comfort zone) I'm assessing the external information against my action. Basically, watching her reaction to see if something is amiss.
I hear you on the lines being blurred. I'm definitely assertive and somewhat dominant, but at the same time somebody else might have an opinion and I can be cool with it. Depends on the situation. Last night I had this plan for a bunch of us to move on then someone told me it wasn't happening. I was pissed because I'd just convinced some other people to come with. Turns out it was a misunderstanding but we ended up staying on the dancefloor at that place and I was cool with that.
I have a slight issue with removing limiting beliefs and not replacing them, although I get that you can't necessarily install beliefs generically.
haha I was talking more about physical touchy-feely. That is my core, I truly deep down love the connection that comes from touching a woman. It feels restricting to not touch them. But I don't, usually until anywhere from 5-15 minutes into the conversation when I realise I haven't touched them in ages and I better do something otherwise I'm going to get myself friend-zoned. I need to start practicing. Even just something as simple as moving in close to hear her (loud venue) then not returning to my spot. Although it would be better to move in against her shoulder so you're not right directly in her face.
But yeah the emotion part is true as well. I'm generally connected to my emotions in that I can express them and choose to. I can express emotions to guys as well although I do it a bit differently of course. But I haven't gotten to the point of going up to a girl and directly telling her what I like about her.
That's it. Most of what they're talking about is probably inane but at the same time I wonder why I don't talk about that stuff. Not necessarily all night, but I think I should have some random inane conversation ammunition. Lower my standards on what I talk about if that makes sense. I think I have a kind of blueprint of the 'right' conversation. Which involves the chilled silence when I have nothing I want to say. I went to a speed dating event a few weeks back. Got one friend connection and no date connections. I'm pretty sure it's my conversation blueprint that's screwing me up. I can be energetic and enthused when I'm talking about stuff and I can take what a girl offers me and drill down into the meaty, juicy real stuff. But most of my conversations I start are deep. Facts about peoples lives don't interest me. I don't want to know just that she's a lawyer. I like to find out if she enjoys it, what her favourite win has been, if it's her dream job, etc. Whereas girls like a guy who can make them laugh. Sure I've got stories to tell that have laughter-factor but I share them if they're relevant. Like if I want to share a kitchen disaster of mine, I would share that if we were talking about cooking already. But I wouldn't just tell the story out of the blue. I think that's my issue though, is that this blueprint needs to go. If I want to make the girl laugh then I should just tell a story and make her laugh.
Thanks for the reminder on writing. I did start daily journaling but stopped. I also have some of the belief finding and removing stuff like Lefkoe, Option Method, etc. I just haven't used them in a while. For some reason they seem too simple. Like I have a belief and I answer some questions. That's all they are. So at the end I expect fireworks. If I don't get fireworks (a sense of the belief shifting or changing) then I don't believe in it. Am I looking at those processes wrong? Are they more powerful than I give them credit?
Thanks!