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+--- Thread: Revisiting guilt, shame, and fear (/Thread-Revisiting-guilt-shame-and-fear)
RE: Revisiting guilt, shame, and fear - mat422 - 03-20-2014
I am a complete dumbass. That's all I can say right now. I ended up weaseling my way out of the emotional pain and healing sub and I didn't even realize it. I should have known the moment I felt that there was a better way to go about this, it was just a clever trick from my subconscious to get me to stop the program. And after stopping it for a few weeks I felt good. But things have been popping up lately and I decided I needed to get back to it. No matter how awful it makes me feel.
Truth be told, I still think I have serious trust and control issues. These subliminals are great and I've seen them do great things. But part of me is always feeling like I need to know what's on them, how they work, why they work, if they really are the best way, etc. And you know what? I realized there are things my subconscious has beliefs about that I don't even know consciously. Just all sorts of knee jerk reactions that I have to really decode, and some that I really can't.
Something that bothered me was the fact that none of this programming is truly permanent. It's close, but you need those refreshers. In an ideal world we'd be able to zap away negative beliefs permanently and replace them with positive instantly, but that's not how it works. I was stubborn and wanted to know that this stuff could be a permanent fix and I wrongly assumed because it wasn't permanent then something was wrong about it or there had to be a better way. But it's not the technology it's the nature of the human brain, it is built a certain way and you have to work with it. And I stopped to think, muscles shrink and wither down if you don't keep working out. It's the same with the brain and all those limiting beliefs and programming. You just have to keep on top of it, and there's nothing wrong with that. Most people do that anyway, but through conscious intervention like positive self talk and whatever else. So using subliminals is actually more efficient and isn't any different than what everyone else does. My stupid perfectionism just got in the way again building up idealized images of what should be, rather than what is.
I guess overall I just get bummed out sometimes when the resistance is really strong. I can say consciously "ok I'm going to let go and allow it all and change", but my subconscious is like "nope". I've been up and down, I've felt like I internalized being an alpha, lost it, felt a little better, felt like a completely worthless human, felt like an ok human, etc. I've been all over the place. I think the key is going through those states and realizing they are progressions and not permanent states of being. I'd fail in the past because I'd feel a certain way and then assume that was the truth, when really it was the past coming up that needed to be released and I held onto it.
And something else. I have a ton of negative beliefs and emotions. I never realized that until I started those removal subs. It was a lot, and I wasn't prepared for it. There's so much buried deep in my subconscious mind.
Which reminds me that my mom found a journal she had written in when me and my brothers were kids. She told me about this one time apparently my foot hurt and my dad was in a bad mood. And I started complaining about my foot in the car. We were heading towards some event or something. Anyway my dad pulls the car around and says he's leaving me at my grandmother's house and then starts talking about leaving my mom because he just couldn't take it anymore. That's one of probably numerous events that occurred in my childhood that I just don't remember. They all play a role in how I perceive the world today. Probably not the most traumatizing events, but I know I was really sensitive as a kid and they probably made a deep impact on me.
See I hate when people say the past is the past. It's not. The past is a direct influence to how you behave today whether you realize it or not. I think some people just cope better than others. I'm not saying hold onto the past, but really how can you deny the powerful impact some events can have on the development of an individual?
RE: Revisiting guilt, shame, and fear - SargeMaximus - 03-20-2014
Lol. You need to read "The Power of Now" and chill out.
RE: Revisiting guilt, shame, and fear - stratos - 03-20-2014
Ha, Sarge. But he just sounds like you used to. He'll come around.
RE: Revisiting guilt, shame, and fear - JackOfHearts - 03-20-2014
If programming was permanent someone who got bad programming would be doom to fail. That's a good thing that subliminal are not permanent.
RE: Revisiting guilt, shame, and fear - SargeMaximus - 03-20-2014
(03-20-2014, 10:22 AM)stratos Wrote: Ha, Sarge. But he just sounds like you used to. He'll come around.
Yeah man, and I don't know about him, but I came around by reading "The Power of Now" and chilling out. :o
RE: Revisiting guilt, shame, and fear - mat422 - 03-20-2014
(03-20-2014, 10:12 AM)SargeMaximus Wrote: Lol. You need to read "The Power of Now" and chill out.
I really didn't like that book. I'm just curious what you got out of it?
(03-20-2014, 10:23 AM)maniac360 Wrote: If programming was permanent someone who got bad programming would be doom to fail. That's a good thing that subliminal are not permanent.
That's actually a very good point.
RE: Revisiting guilt, shame, and fear - SargeMaximus - 03-20-2014
(03-20-2014, 12:19 PM)mat422 Wrote:(03-20-2014, 10:12 AM)SargeMaximus Wrote: Lol. You need to read "The Power of Now" and chill out.
I really didn't like that book. I'm just curious what you got out of it?
Probably what you didn't like about it, to be honest. In essence, it helps you dis-identify with your thinking and your mind which, for you, I could see being a frightening concept.
RE: Revisiting guilt, shame, and fear - mat422 - 03-20-2014
(03-20-2014, 12:42 PM)SargeMaximus Wrote:(03-20-2014, 12:19 PM)mat422 Wrote:(03-20-2014, 10:12 AM)SargeMaximus Wrote: Lol. You need to read "The Power of Now" and chill out.
I really didn't like that book. I'm just curious what you got out of it?
Probably what you didn't like about it, to be honest. In essence, it helps you dis-identify with your thinking and your mind which, for you, I could see being a frightening concept.
Not being attached to one's emotions and not being caught up in thinking is good. I understand the concepts, but admittedly I'm not perfect at executing them, hence my rants from time to time. But my main gripe with this book is it's straight up brainwashing. Tolle presents everything as the truth, he encourages you to be in the now(lowered thinking=more suggestible), his ideas leak into your subconscious and you start believing them as the absolute truth.
I don't like gurus. And while Tolle states in this book that you don't lose your ability to analyze and think critically, I found myself losing that exact ability while making my way through the book.
That may sound paranoid to you. And if I encountered this exact response while I was in my power of now phase I would have dismissed it as ego. And that's the problem, it's too easy to brush off any critical thinking as ego, as if questioning Tolle's teachings were a bad thing.
So if you benefit from this book I think that's great. But to me Tolle bastardized a lot of good teachings and suffers from the same problems most gurus do.
RE: Revisiting guilt, shame, and fear - SargeMaximus - 03-21-2014
Yeah, I call that paranoid.
I don't agree with most of HIS beliefs, I just use the principles to get into the "Now". I would say that is an Ego response, yeah, because the Ego cares about titles and labels.
When you are free of that (in the "Now"), you're actually not affected by those kinds of things, so there is no way you could prescribe to a "belief" because you would be in tune with your inner essence which is free from politics.
RE: Revisiting guilt, shame, and fear - mat422 - 03-21-2014
(03-21-2014, 03:14 AM)SargeMaximus Wrote: Yeah, I call that paranoid.
I don't agree with most of HIS beliefs, I just use the principles to get into the "Now". I would say that is an Ego response, yeah, because the Ego cares about titles and labels.
When you are free of that (in the "Now"), you're actually not affected by those kinds of things, so there is no way you could prescribe to a "belief" because you would be in tune with your inner essence which is free from politics.
I guess I'm paranoid then. Unfortunately I can't go into this further, otherwise I'd be breaking the rules of the forum.
My views are always open to change. But past experience has taught me that this book does not benefit me.
RE: Revisiting guilt, shame, and fear - SargeMaximus - 03-21-2014
(03-21-2014, 12:22 PM)mat422 Wrote: I guess I'm paranoid then. Unfortunately I can't go into this further, otherwise I'd be breaking the rules of the forum.
My views are always open to change. But past experience has taught me that this book does not benefit me.
If you had been present you could have seen that I was being Egoic by labeling you "paranoid". Just like you reinforce your thoughts with believing them to be true, you reinforce your "self-image" by accepting the label as yourself.
This is how I comprehend it:
Thoughts and saliva are the same kind of thing.
When you see, smell, or sense food that is appealing, you salivate. Your saliva changes due to the external stimuli, but YOU are NOT the saliva, it just works inside your body.
Same with thoughts. They start "juicin" when external stimuli are/is present but they are just something that happens in your body YOU are NOT your thoughts. Nor are YOU paranoid, your thoughts are, and you believe you are them (you identify with them).
If I were to identify with my saliva, I might say "Man, I'm gushing wet right now." when I see food and get some weird looks from people, but it is, in essence, the same with thoughts.
You are not paranoid, you have paranoia INSIDE of you.
The saliva is in the mouth, the thoughts are in the brain.
Food for thought. :o
lol
Oh, and just like you can salivate by thinking about food with not a single piece of food around, so too can you react to thoughts that are of things that aren't even happening. Like the past. The past is gone yo, where is it but inside your mind?
Where are you RIGHT NOW? In the past? In the future? Where will you EVER be, if not right here, right NOW?
RE: Revisiting guilt, shame, and fear - mat422 - 03-21-2014
(03-21-2014, 03:44 PM)SargeMaximus Wrote:(03-21-2014, 12:22 PM)mat422 Wrote: I guess I'm paranoid then. Unfortunately I can't go into this further, otherwise I'd be breaking the rules of the forum.
My views are always open to change. But past experience has taught me that this book does not benefit me.
If you had been present you could have seen that I was being Egoic by labeling you "paranoid". Just like you reinforce your thoughts with believing them to be true, you reinforce your "self-image" by accepting the label as yourself.
This is how I comprehend it:
Thoughts and saliva are the same kind of thing.
When you see, smell, or sense food that is appealing, you salivate. Your saliva changes due to the external stimuli, but YOU are NOT the saliva, it just works inside your body.
Same with thoughts. They start "juicin" when external stimuli are/is present but they are just something that happens in your body YOU are NOT your thoughts. Nor are YOU paranoid, your thoughts are, and you believe you are them (you identify with them).
If I were to identify with my saliva, I might say "Man, I'm gushing wet right now." when I see food and get some weird looks from people, but it is, in essence, the same with thoughts.
You are not paranoid, you have paranoia INSIDE of you.
The saliva is in the mouth, the thoughts are in the brain.
Food for thought. :o
lol
Oh, and just like you can salivate by thinking about food with not a single piece of food around, so too can you react to thoughts that are of things that aren't even happening. Like the past. The past is gone yo, where is it but inside your mind?
Where are you RIGHT NOW? In the past? In the future? Where will you EVER be, if not right here, right NOW?
Ok I take back what I said about the book and Tolle. I've skimmed through parts and I'm seeing where I went wrong in the past.
I've just had a bad experience with the book. And looking back it's my fault because I probably misinterpreted his teachings.
His emphasis on not being your thoughts or emotions caused me to detach. I confused his states of now for detachment instead of presence. There's a very fine line between watching these thoughts and emotions from a higher state of awareness vs detachment. One just numbs you out completely.
My paranoia stemmed from falling back into that state of detachment. Many bad habits were cultivated that lowered my quality of life.
As for being in the now, I find relaxing and focusing on the breath is a very good method. Tolle is far too wordy for my taste and only complicates things more. Probably because he borrows from all different teachings and squashes them into one book.
RE: Revisiting guilt, shame, and fear - SargeMaximus - 03-22-2014
There is a book of his called "Practicing the Power of Now", which is much more streamlined. Ultimately though, you don't need it as long as you can be present and dis-identify with your thoughts. Watch and observe them. Notice how your thoughts are "there" but what you can hear/feel/see is something else.
If you're watching tv, do you think YOU are the tv? No, that's ridiculous. But then, why do you assume you are the thoughts that you can see as well?
If we WERE our thoughts, we would not be aware of them or at least, wouldn't be able to observe them. Like the tv. If we were the tv, we would be unaware of ourselves and what we were playing. But because we are an observer who either sits on the couch watching tv, or goes through life seeing/listening to/feeling our thoughts, we are something else.
If you FEEL a piece of wool, are YOU the wool?
If you HEAR a song, are YOU the song?
If you SEE a sunset, are YOU the sunset?
Now apply that to the thoughts and feelings that go on inside of you.
RE: Revisiting guilt, shame, and fear - mat422 - 03-22-2014
(03-22-2014, 05:55 AM)SargeMaximus Wrote: There is a book of his called "Practicing the Power of Now", which is much more streamlined. Ultimately though, you don't need it as long as you can be present and dis-identify with your thoughts. Watch and observe them. Notice how your thoughts are "there" but what you can hear/feel/see is something else.
If you're watching tv, do you think YOU are the tv? No, that's ridiculous. But then, why do you assume you are the thoughts that you can see as well?
If we WERE our thoughts, we would not be aware of them or at least, wouldn't be able to observe them. Like the tv. If we were the tv, we would be unaware of ourselves and what we were playing. But because we are an observer who either sits on the couch watching tv, or goes through life seeing/listening to/feeling our thoughts, we are something else.
If you FEEL a piece of wool, are YOU the wool?
If you HEAR a song, are YOU the song?
If you SEE a sunset, are YOU the sunset?
Now apply that to the thoughts and feelings that go on inside of you.
Yeah I've always learned by doing, so I really have no need to read anymore about it. The less reading the better for me, less ideas to get caught up in.
Looks like again after reading your post I was still hanging onto thoughts and feelings. Like I said before I'm still very reluctant to disidentify because I'm worried I'll become stuck in that observer state and ultimately lose empathy for people. When thoughts and emotions become more of an observational thing, there's a tendency to forget how others process emotions and want to urge them to just let it go. But not everyone has the self awareness to be able to do that.